Ming the Mechanic:
Net Work

The NewsLog of Flemming Funch
 Net Work2003-08-12 04:42
14 comments
picture by Flemming Funch

Now, if we all had sufficiently good information, that whole issue about what to do and how to make a living would just not be a problem.

Most of us have something very useful we can do, which is needed somewhere. For that matter, there will usually be somewhere where that which we most love to do is exactly what is needed.

What makes our current economic system work very inefficiently is that we usually don't have good information about what is needed and where, and about who are the best people to deal with. And we don't have a good way of informing others about what we'd like to do, or what we can do.

Oh, there's an overwhelming abundance of information around us, about products and services offered, and opportunities available. But it is not very good information. Most of it is bogus information.

Advertising is mostly bogus information. It tries to make us desire and seek certain products, not based on that we really need them or that they're the best ones available, but based on making us want them, despite that we might not need them, or they aren't really the best.

A free economic market is ideally perfectly fair, and is driven by information. If people consider a certain product or service worthless, the price will drop, and it will no longer be sensible to produce it. If people find a certain product or service very valuable and desirable, the price will go up, which will reward those who produce it, and inspire the production of more of it. Until there is too much of it, where the prices will then drop and things will adjust themselves again. It is a very sensible system of self-organization.

It is unfortunately not completely how it works in real life. Some wrenches have been thrown into the free market, such as the existence of corporations, with corporate veils, and intellectual property right. We have a Monopoly game, essentially, where the biggest rewards go to those who most succeed in grabbing a monopoly in some area, in part by making their product look better than they really are, by paying less for producing them than what is fair, by hiding their corporate structure, by bribing governments to give them special treatment, and generally by hiding or embellishing the truth about how things really are.

Oh, there's still a market there, so market mechanisms can still manage to adjust things, as some of the true information gets shared. The public might discover who consistenly produces bad products, or they might discover who really owns a company, or which public official is working for them, and they might disapprove. The system still tends to be more efficient than a centralized bureacracy.

I suppose the communist system was based on the idea that if we centralize all the information, we can make the best possible decisions about what production power is needed where, and we can do things most efficiently. But the problem is that it ignored all the little pieces of information exchanged between individuals, and it ignored their individual choices, and their need to be motivated by personal accomplishment. And then a top-down hierarchy becomes very inefficient.

No, what we really need is an open network of very well-informed people who make decisions based on what they know. If the information is mostly good, the result will be useful self-organization, despite that not all participants can be expected to make completely rational decisions.

Imagine for a moment that we all had fully functional telepathy. I would know right away when you're lying to me, and I would know right away what you're actually doing, and how you are doing it, and with whom. There would be no point in you trying to tell me anything else, as I could just look in your mind and see the truth. Thus you wouldn't be able to sell me something that wasn't right for me, or which pretended to be something else than it really was.

We'd need some kind of networked telepathy. I don't just need to know the truth about what you're about, I'd need to be able to quickly assess what is *out there*. What is offered and what is needed, in a wide sphere around me.

Currently, if I need something, I might search on the net, look in a newspaper, write about it in my newslog, ask a few people. And quite often I'll find something that fits what I'm looking for. But it is in a very haphazard manner.

Like, right now I have certain skills, certain experience, and certain desires, and I have a need for applying some of these in a way that my life is supported from it. Putting that out to a few hundred people who read this, and networking it a little bit on other sites - that does produce results. It is good to have friends. Quite often, what one is looking for might be found amongst the few dozen or few hundred friends one has. And that's certainly a good thing.

But if we had a good enough information network, be it telepathic or computerized, there could very well be ways that I might access the information shared by thousands or millions of people, and it would be much more likely that I'll find what I'm looking for.

I'm not talking about that I can do a search on keywords in a search engine. I can already do that, and that is great. But it gives me a very small portion of the whole picture.

I'm right now in a city of close to a million people, and of course, amongst those, there will be some people who know a great place where some of my skills will fit in a very mutually advantageous place. But I only know a handful of people here. I'll know more. But most information is well hidden, so it takes a while.

There's plenty to do here, and anywhere on the planet, and there are plenty of people who can do what needs to be done, and plenty of resources to do them with. The only thing in the way is our lack of ability to see all this clearly. We don't have enough good information, or it isn't structured to give a clear picture, or we're not sure we can trust it. Thus we operate based on small personal networks and questionable information from public sources. Where we really could operate at a whole different level if the real information was available.

It is not an impossibly hard problem to solve this. Telepathy would be preferable, but it can also be done through well-structured computerized databases. Large numbers of people who share their knowledge and value judgements about many things. Better ways of expressing needs and offerings in a concise way.


[< Back] [Ming the Mechanic]

Category:  

14 comments

12 Aug 2003 @ 09:57 by Jon Husband @216.113.201.236 : Working - Net
From the recently-updated web site of the Learning Lab Denmark:

"Would you like to work with us?

We are always looking for unique personalities who understand the necessity of our endeavour and who have the courage and competence to work with research in international and interdisciplinary contexts.

Learning Lab Denmark is itself an experiment. Do not expect anything to be business as usual. We expect applicants to be characterised by an unrelenting want to experiment and the ability to translate between different modes of thinking. One of Learning Lab Denmark’s primary objectives is to make academic research useful and accessible for ordinary people, businesses and educational institutions, but also to translate the needs of society and make them objects of research.

Fluency in English both written and oral is required as well as a willingness to inspire and be inspired, the wish to challenge the borders between work and play, and the mindset necessary to accept that new forms of knowledge are more likely to arise out of friction and muddling through, than out of harmony and the avoidance of mistakes.

We are always on the lookout for new partners and interesting projects. If you consider that you have something to offer, please contact us.  



12 Aug 2003 @ 11:06 by Chris Hagglund @65.95.162.231 : trustworthy information
I've been thinking about this information reliability problem from the point of view of developing a distributed ROCS trading system, and how a system of trust certificates could be used to determine if a particular trading partner is trustworthy using advogato style trust metrics. Reading your post makes me think that a worldwide web of trust needs to come first.

Once a worldwide web of trust is in place (or even just beginning to form) all kinds of neat things will be possible. We will be easily able to judge the quality/trustworthiness of available signed information simply by examining the trust level of the information source. Information without credentials is garbage information.

This kind of thing would play right into the ROCS system I would like to use instead of stupid federal money. It would make it very easy to determine if a particular trading partner whom I have never met before is trustworthy by tracing a path through the trust network from my own certificate back to this person's certificate and checking if his "trustworthiness factor" was within my risk tolerance.  



12 Aug 2003 @ 14:05 by Andrius Kulikauskas @81.7.117.194 : Hey, Oracle!
Hi Flemming, You think out loud fantastically. Please know that I think of you all. Ian Bruk is funding me to pursue these "software for civil society organization contest". I will be asking for $100,000, with $25,000 for me, and 5 teams at $15,000, where the team leaders get $5,000 each. Not a lot, but maybe enough to have something to show, and can overlap with existing projects. Maybe you might like to lead a team, that would of course be wonderful. Maybe something will happen, maybe more opportunity will come together, you are very welcome to be a part of it. I will be pursuing the extra connections, I hope businesses might be interested. Just know that I think of you. Andrius  


12 Aug 2003 @ 15:06 by ming : Trust
I agree, it has to be based on a system of trust. Of course we'd have to figure out how to structure the information as well, but it isn't going to be worth much unless we know where it is coming from and who said it, and that they really are who they say they are. And that requires solving how to keep good track of identity. But none of it is easy problems to solve.

Yes, a ROCS system would be a fine idea to combine with that.  



13 Aug 2003 @ 16:19 by Shannon Clark @68.20.84.161 : Telepathy not the solution
Hi Flemming,

A few thoughts - telepathy doesn't solve everything - for one, people can be wrong about things (happens all the time).

For another, people can be sincere in their views, but still not view or value things the same as you do.

A large part of business and trade is the transfer of goods and services from people to others - usually in exchange for something they value higher than the items being exchanged, generally this occurs via an exchange medium of a currency. But, it is important to remember that either with total information about someone they will have different goals than you do, and thus different needs - and thus what they ask for may not be what you are willing to pay (or what you feel is fair).

My point is that what you describe as "the real information" may not in a very literal sense exist. What you would percieve and value is likely different than what I do.

(to take some simple examples - I speak and read English, and a smattering of French, while there are books in other languages I would value, I would generally value them much less than a book I could more easily enjoy - thus while I would attach high value to books in English, another person might place a higher value on books in German)

Another example is that I am a single male in Chicago (dating but not married) and have not kids or dependants - my focus and needs will different greatly from a father with small children - and we both would have different views and values from one of those children.

Thus, it is vital to remember that perspective and context are key - I would argue that there is no single "real information" but rather a multitude of perspectives and views, the value of commerce is tied very much in the ways in which those views interact and work together to achieve ends (food in our stomachs, shelter, enjoyment, furthering our own values and goals).

I would also posit a thought exercise for you:

"Are you looking for the 'perfect' job?" - i.e. the absolute best job compared to all others that are potentially out there?

Or, "are you looking for a job that meets some minimum set of requirements, or at many of your requirements/desires as possible?" - I would suggest most likely the later.

Which points out the question of "how do you choose between continueing to look and taking what is in front of you?" - i.e. the "bird in the hand vs. two in the bush" question.  



15 Aug 2003 @ 16:43 by ming : Information
I agree, the information will mean something different to different people. We might have different levels on confidence in different people's information. And for sure, we'll value different things differently.f And I might value the same thing differently at different times. That is actually what I think is the whole point, and it all has to be part of our own personal equation. So, what we need is not that somebody centrally calculates the "correct" value for anything. But rather that *somehow* we are as well as possible connected with the sources of information, so that we can get a good enough picture that we can make up our own mind. And I think a free market will work when each of us are well enough informed, in our own way, to make our own completely individual choices about what is valuable and what isn't. And the self-organization of the market will ideally speaking do the rest.  


17 Aug 2003 @ 01:27 by jazzolog : What Is Your Product?
Flemming Funch up for hire is an opportunity, I'm sure, for entrepreneurs around the world. Often on such an occasion, people offer our dossiers---mottled and weird as they get to be sometimes---to prospective employers and let them figure out if we can be of any compensatory use. Maybe, Flemming, that's what you're doing now...in the potentially random rippling called networking.

"Network" is the word. New Civilization Network. During these couple of years several of us members have been reminded over and over again that this site IS a networking device...and not some club or government model. Many have remarked that it is a manifestation of Ming himself, and either you get along with it or you don't. Your present presentation of yourself clearly is an opportunity to review just who the heck you are---and incidentally, I guess, what NCN is...again.

Much of your writing is about money. You like to let your mind take you into possibilities of other methods to exchange articles of necessity and pleasure for acts of labor. What you seem to end up with---understanding that your process includes a preference for thinking to go on and on rather than actually come to a conclusion---often is some kind of local tribe. It might be a cooperative block of a neighborhood where everybody shares friendship and talents.

And yet, the skill for which you were paid so handsomely and which you have honed over the years is very technological. Being a webmaster and a computer programmer means you depend to a high degree---the cutting edge actually---on a world completely dependent on the "advances" of the last 200 years. We have read over these last weeks the measures you have had to take to access the Internet. So, the little neighborhood tribe seems to exist within and depend overwhelmingly on a bigger Old Civilization Network. I wonder whether there is an opportunity really to get straight and honest with yourself at this point in your family's life.

I thought of you this morning and the predicaments-to-some and opportunities-to-others as I read a short article at Reasononline, entitled "Accelerating Change: Why technology will be the defining battle of the 21st century." Perhaps you saw it already, or it might be of interest and help right now. A little way in, the author brings us this paragraph:

"But given all the benefits that modern scientific and technological enterprise has bestowed upon humanity, why would anyone want to vote 'no'? 'Technological progress inevitably involves losers, and these losers...tend to be concentrated and usually find it easy to organize,' notes (Joel) Mokyr. 'Sooner or later in any society the progress of technology will grind to a halt because the forces that used to support innovation become vested interests. In a purely dialectical fashion, technological progress creates the very forces that eventually destroy it.'"

Or, to put it another way, who are the "vested interests" so determined to wage War on Terrorism? And, which side are you on, boys?

So, it will be of interest to your many friends around the world, and to the casual onlooker at NCN just what happens to Flemming Funch next. How you fashion your future and that of your family may be the model, as well, for how NCN is evolving.

[link]  



17 Aug 2003 @ 19:21 by ming : What happens next
Yeah, maybe I'll turn to farming the land and disavow all technology. Maybe I'll connect with new high-tech endeavors and be content with a new DSL line. Maybe I'll out of need invent something new and wonderful. Maybe I'll discover what I'm really here for. Or things will transform into a new configuration that magically works better. Maybe life will just go on.  


20 Dec 2014 @ 00:11 by Erlangga @92.62.130.51 : RzYiaQTSAKLDWcil
I've been browsing online more than 3 hours today, yet I never found any ienernstitg article like yours. It is pretty worth enough for me. Personally, if all site owners and bloggers made good content as you did, the net will be a lot more useful than ever before.|I could not refrain from commenting. Perfectly written!|I'll immediately grab your rss feed as I can't find your e-mail subscription hyperlink or e-newsletter service. Do you've any? Kindly permit me recognize in order that I may subscribe. Thanks.|It's perfect time to make some plans for the future and it's time to be happy. I've read this post and if I could I wish to suggest you some ienernstitg things or suggestions. Maybe you can write next articles referring to this article. I wish to read even more things about it!|It's perfect time to make some plans for the longer term and it's time to be happy. I've learn this submit and if I may I wish to recommend you some fascinating issues or suggestions. Maybe you can write subsequent articles referring to this article. I wish to learn even more issues about it!|I've been browsing on-line greater than 3 hours nowadays, but I by no means discovered any fascinating article like yours. It is pretty value sufficient for me. Personally, if all site owners and bloggers made good content material as you probably did, the net shall be a lot more helpful than ever before.|Ahaa, its pleasant conversation concerning this post at this place at this weblog, I have read all that, so at this time me also commenting at this place.|I am sure this post has touched all the internet people, its really really pleasant post on building up new weblog.|Wow, this post is pleasant, my younger sister is analyzing these things, thus I am going to inform her.|bookmarked!!, I like your site!|Way cool! Some extremely valid points! I appreciate you penning this post and also the rest of the website is extremely good.|Hi, I do think this is a great website. I stumbledupon it I am going to return yet again since i have book marked it. Money and freedom is the greatest way to change, may you be rich and continue to guide others.|Woah! I'm really enjoying the template/theme of this website. It's simple, yet effective. A lot of times it's very difficult to get that perfect balance between user friendliness and visual appeal. I must say you have done a amazing job with this. Additionally, the blog loads extremely quick for me on Internet explorer. Exceptional Blog!|These are actually enormous ideas in concerning blogging. You have touched some pleasant factors here. Any way keep up wrinting.|I really like what you guys are usually up too. This type of clever work and coverage! Keep up the terrific works guys I've you guys to my blogroll.|Hi there! Someone in my Facebook group shared this website with us so I came to look it over. I'm definitely loving the information. I'm bookmarking and will be tweeting this to my followers! Wonderful blog and terrific design and style.|I really like what you guys are usually up too. This type of clever work and coverage! Keep up the terrific works guys I've added you guys to my blogroll.|Hi there would you mind sharing which blog platform you're using? I'm planning to start my own blog soon but I'm having a difficult time selecting between BlogEngine/Wordpress/B2evolution and Drupal. The reason I ask is because your design seems different then most blogs and I'm looking for something unique. P.S Apologies for being off-topic but I had to ask!|Hi there would you mind letting me know which hosting company you're working with? I've loaded your blog in 3 different web browsers and I must say this blog loads a lot faster then most. Can you recommend a good web hosting provider at a reasonable price? Kudos, I appreciate it!|I really like it when individuals get together and share thoughts. Great website, continue the good work!|Thank you for the good writeup. It in fact was a amusement account it. Look advanced to more added agreeable from you! However, how could we communicate?|Hi there just wanted to give you a quick heads up. The words in your post seem to be running off the screen in Internet explorer. I'm not sure if this is a formatting issue or something to do with internet browser compatibility but I figured I'd post to let you know. The design and style look great though! Hope you get the issue resolved soon. Cheers|This is a topic that's near to my heart Many thanks! Exactly where are your contact details though?|It's very simple to find out any matter on web as compared to textbooks, as I found this post at this web site.|Does your website have a contact page? I'm having problems locating it but, I'd like to shoot you an email. I've got some recommendations for your blog you might be interested in hearing. Either way, great website and I look forward to seeing it improve over time.|Hey there! I've been reading your web site for a while now and finally got the courage to go ahead and give you a shout out from Kingwood Texas! Just wanted to mention keep up the excellent work!|Greetings from Carolina! I'm bored to death at work so I decided to browse your website on my iphone during lunch break. I really like the info you provide here and can't wait to take a look when I get home. I'm amazed at how fast your blog loaded on my cell phone .. I'm not even using WIFI, just 3G .. Anyways, amazing blog!|Its such as you learn my thoughts! You appear to know a lot about this, such as you wrote the e-book in it or something. I feel that you simply can do with a few p.c. to pressure the message home a little bit, but instead of that, that is wonderful blog. An excellent read. I will certainly be back.|I visited many sites except the audio feature for audio songs present at this web site is actually wonderful.|Hi there, i read your blog from time to time and i own a similar one and i was just curious if you get a lot of spam responses? If so how do you reduce it, any plugin or anything you can suggest? I get so much lately it's driving me insane so any help is very much appreciated.|Greetings! Very useful advice in this particular post! It's the little changes which will make the largest changes. Thanks for sharing!|I truly love your site.. Excellent colors & theme. Did you develop this site yourself? Please reply back as I'm trying to create my very own website and want to learn where you got this from or exactly what the theme is named. Many thanks!|Hello there! This article could not be written much better! Looking at this article reminds me of my previous roommate! He constantly kept preaching about this. I'll send this information to him. Fairly certain he'll have a very good read. Thanks for sharing!|Whoa! This blog looks just like my old one! It's on a entirely different subject but it has pretty much the same page layout and design. Wonderful choice of colors!|There's certainly a great deal to learn about this topic. I love all of the points you've made.|You've made some good points there. I checked on the web for more information about the issue and found most people will go along with your views on this site.|Hello, I check your blogs like every week. Your writing style is witty, keep up the good work!|I just couldn't depart your web site before suggesting that I extremely loved the usual info an individual provide on your guests? Is gonna be again regularly to check out new posts|I needed to thank you for this excellent read!! I certainly loved every bit of it. I've got you book marked to look at new things you post…|Hello, just wanted to say, I liked this post. It was funny. Keep on posting!|I drop} a leave a response|drop a leave a response|leave a response} when I like a article on a {blog|site|website} or if I have something to contribute to the conversation. Usually it is triggered by the fire displayed in the article I looked at. And after this article 将来性から見たWiMAXの性能 | モバイル情報通信. I was actually moved|was actually excited} enough to {leave}|post} a {commenta response}} :) I actually do have a few questions|a couple of questions|2 questions} for you do not mind|if it's okay}. Could it be only me or does it {seem like} a few of these responses appear as if they are written by brain dead visitors? And, if you are writing at additional social sites, I would like to keep up with {anything fresh you have to post}. Would you make a list every one of all your communal sites like your linkedin profile, Facebook page or twitter feed?|Hello, I enjoy reading through your post. I wanted to write a little comment to support you.|I constantly spent my half an hour to read this weblog's posts daily along with a mug of coffee.|I for all time emailed this weblog post page to all my associates, since if like to read it after that my links will too.|My programmer is trying to convince me to move to .net from PHP. I have always disliked the idea because of the costs. But he's tryiong none the less. I've been using WordPress on a variety of websites for about a year and am anxious about switching to another platform. I have heard very good things about blogengine.net. Is there a way I can import all my wordpress posts into it? Any help would be greatly appreciated!|Hi! I could have sworn I've visited this web site before but after going through a few of the articles I realized it's new to me. Anyhow, I'm certainly pleased I discovered it and I'll be book-marking it and checking back regularly!|Great work! That is the kind of info that are supposed to be shared across the internet. Shame on search engines|Google} for not positioning this submit higher! Come on over and discuss with my web site . Thanks =)|Heya i am for the first time here. I found this board and I find It really useful & it helped me out much. I hope to give something back and aid others like you aided me.|Hello, I believe your website may be having internet browser compatibility problems. Whenever I take a look at your web site in Safari, it looks fine however when opening in IE, it's got some overlapping issues. I simply wanted to provide you with a quick heads up! Apart from that, wonderful website!|Someone essentially help to make critically posts I might state. That is the very first time I frequented your website page and so far? I surprised with the analysis you made to make this particular submit amazing. Wonderful process!|Heya i am for the first time here. I found this board and I find It really helpful & it helped me out much. I hope to offer one thing again and aid others such as you aided me.|Hi! I simply want to offer you a big thumbs up for your excellent information you've got right here on this post. I'll be returning to your site for more soon.|I all the time used to study post in news papers but now as I am a user of web thus from now I am using net for posts, thanks to web.|Your method of explaining all in this post is actually pleasant, every one be able to without difficulty know it, Thanks a lot.|Hello there, I discovered your website via Google whilst looking for a comparable matter, your web site came up, it appears great. I've bookmarked it in my google bookmarks.Hi there, just became alert to your weblog through Google, and located that it's truly informative. I am going to be careful for brussels. I'll be grateful should you proceed this [link]. Lots of folks shall be benefited out of your writing. Cheers!|I'm curious to find out what blog platform you happen to be utilizing? I'm having some small security issues with my latest website and I'd like to find something more risk-free. Do you have any suggestions?|I'm really impressed with your writing skills as well as with the layout on your weblog. Is this a paid theme or did you modify it yourself? Anyway keep up the excellent quality writing, it is rare to see a great blog like this one nowadays.|I'm really impressed together with your writing skills as {smartly as} with the format on your weblog. Is that this a paid topic or did you modify it your self? Anyway keep up the excellent high quality writing, it is uncommon to see a great weblog like this one nowadays..|Hello, Neat post. There's an issue together with your web site in web explorer, might test this? IE nonetheless is the market chief and a good section of folks will omit your wonderful writing because of this problem.|I am not sure where you're getting your information, but great topic. I needs to spend some time learning much more or understanding more. Thanks for wonderful info I was looking for this info for my mission.|Hello, i think that i saw you visited my weblog thus i came to “return the favor”.I'm attempting to find things to enhance my site!I suppose its ok to use a few of your ideas!!\  


4 Jan 2015 @ 12:41 by Lizabeth @114.160.59.254 : dvsxWYhOSQCauToLCr
You're a real deep threkni. Thanks for sharing. [link] [url=http://getfxivrysl.com]getfxivrysl[/url] [link=http://uqzbyfsqshh.com]uqzbyfsqshh[/link]  


26 Jan 2015 @ 01:11 by Dany @157.7.220.159 : CedfenmnFVWHLDAbm
[link]  


19 Feb 2015 @ 07:33 by Kalyn @80.69.213.156 : lJITTXTFVsDJmEo
prevents normal [link] time heart disease [link] discuss erectile found [link] erectile dysfunction sex [link] penile chambers  


2 Oct 2016 @ 14:00 by mobogenie pc @117.207.107.142 : wfg
hi [link]
good [link]
post [link]
snapchat windows [link]
snapchat for linux [link]
snapchatdownload [link]
snapchat app [link]
mac [link]
ios [link]
android [link]
windows [link]
app [link]
ios [link]
android [link]
windows [link]
ios [link]
mac [link]
android phone [link]
windows phone [link]  



2 Nov 2016 @ 20:46 by yakuza4d @42.115.36.208 : togel online terpercaya
After read a couple of the articles on your website these few days, and I truly like your style of blogging. I tag it to my favorites internet site list and will be checking back soon. Please check out my web site also and let me know what you think.
praturan
[link]
home
[link]
daftar
[link]
cara main
[link]
hasil
[link]
buku mimpi
[link]  



Your Name:
Your URL: (or email)
Subject:       
Comment:
For verification, please type the word you see on the left:


Other stories in
2010-07-10 13:01: Strong Elastic Links
2010-07-08 02:27: Truth: superconductivity for scalable networks
2010-06-27 02:28: Be afraid, be very afraid
2008-07-06 23:20: Laws of social networks
2008-06-20 15:40: Peer material production
2008-05-06 13:57: Why can't we stick to our goals?
2008-02-21 21:16: Open social networks
2007-11-08 01:49: The value of connections
2007-11-07 00:51: Diversity counterproductive to social capital?
2007-07-13 23:42: Plan vs Reality



[< Back] [Ming the Mechanic] [PermaLink]? 


Link to this article as: http://ming.tv/flemming2.php/__show_article/_a000010-000872.htm
Main Page: ming.tv