Ming the Mechanic:
The origin of things

The NewsLog of Flemming Funch
 The origin of things2003-03-30 13:54
13 comments
picture by Flemming Funch

Paul Hughes does some excellent thinking about really big questions, like the possible origin of the laws of the universe.
"I have been engaging in some discussion lately about the begining of the universe, and for the first time (amazingly enough) I pushed the 'Where did it come from' question through as far as it can go. And, not surprisingly, it doesn't go anywhere. No matter how you try to explain the origin of the universe, none of the theories can account for the cause of it. What caused the big bang? Where did 'God' come from? etc.

From this, i concluded that there cannot be a begining. If there was a begining, then something must have caused that begining, and so something was there before the begining.

This doesn't answer anything, but I am yet to see another way around the causality problem (defining something as 'acausal' doesn't solve it, it just dodges it).

Now, linked to this 'where did the universe come from?' problem is, 'Where did the incredible laws, which make our universe a coherent place come from?', which is what I think underlies it all. Once the universe began, it is easy to say 'the laws guided the evolution of everything from there'....but how did the laws come to be? Why are they so perfect?"
I wish more people would be able to discuss things like that intelligently. Many will merely, if they even try, end up with some silly circular reasoning or 'just because!' kind of answer. I'm not sure I end up in the exact same place as Paul does - that there are no fundamental laws. But then again, I agree that anything is possible, so maybe we do see it the same way. Either way, this would be a great discussion to spend a few hours on.

As Paul points out, any kind of explanation that is built on ideas such as 'that is how evolution works', or 'it is all random' or 'God created it all' or 'it all follows logically from a Big Bang' - are just sort of starting in the middle and not explaning how that arrangement came about.

The best guard against closed-minded fundamentalism, of the religious or scientific kind, would be to invite more discussions like that. And to invite more of us to be comfortable with the uncertainty you run into when you probe deeply enough into how things work.


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13 comments

31 Mar 2003 @ 00:11 by unity1 : awesome
hi ming,

I also have found myself pondering similar questions, and coming to the same conclusions...but to console myself at the vastness of the entire thing...i came up with the idea that because we are hung up on the begining of things, we created a begining....so as a consequence we had to set about finding one...cos we know that things have a finite life...we impose this view outwards and we acknowledge this view by acting accordingly..ie.. dying :)

i also like this type of discussion but don't meet many than can engage...and when it does, its not long afterwards that maths come into it and my brain does a big yawn and closes down....answeres like it just is, do have some relevency and hold keys, but we are not content with what is percieved to be sarasm or a dead end....heres something that came to me in one of my many ponderings... seemingly unrelated ....but is it...to question time, is to question infinity...has man the paitence to wait for the answer ?

I think the universe is not what we think it is...it didn't start it will not end..it grows and expands, but it is by OUR very nature (ie the viewer) part of us in some way we have yet to really grasp...because of duality system and beleifs...for instance what if god was simply the combined energy of all of us and nothing outside of us...that it was we ourselves who determined our lives from an aspect of our selves that we know longer beleive exists...these types of questions...to me are directly related to understanding the unvierse and our relation to it within it..  



31 Mar 2003 @ 01:45 by jazzolog : Really BIG Questions
I really and truly appreciate these references, day after day, out into the Blare of Blogs that awaits beyond our little NewCiv. There are all these brilliant friends and people you know and to whom you are introducing yourself and relating. It's quite inspiring. Sometimes I wonder if there are any people at this site worth recommending. Is there anyone here who gets featured in one of your blog reviews?  


31 Mar 2003 @ 06:30 by ming : Blogs
Well, I must admit that there are some long overdue features I need to add to the newslogs here, to both make it easier to recommend other people's logs (the stuff that appears in the left side bar on ming.tv), to link to their articles easily, to easily browse content from many sources, and to be able to present your newslog in a more self-sufficient format. When those features are done, it will probably be easier to refer to another NCN log than to anything else, and there will be a certain momentum in our numbers, which will make everything here more easily visible.

But, yes, of course there are people here worth quoting.  



1 Apr 2003 @ 02:16 by maxtobin : Without reference to Paul!
At the risk of seeming trite. It just is, it always was and always will be, thats the big deal. Shakespeare asked the only question that we might reasonably be expected to answer, "To be or not to be, that is the question!" and of course we already answered that one as we are!! So we did forget our completeness when we chose the human experience. When we wake up and realize that we are actually the relationship rather than the isolated ego experience, then our hearts will remember and we will KNOW what eternity really is (LOVE). The mind can never understand this but we may come to KNOW it. This is the longest journey that any human being will ever make, it is a journey that is four hand spans in length.  


1 Apr 2003 @ 02:59 by magical_melody : OS not evolved sufficiently yet!
(Operating System not evolved sufficiently yet!) Flemming, I used to ask the same questions many years ago myself. As I read your log, it took me back to then. That line: Creation or God, is, was and always will be: that used to drive me nuts trying to logically figure it out. I concluded that the Creator did not place that information within me/us to figure the answer out yet. This answer gave me peace! Stated in computer terms: the Source did not make this software or download available until such time we have evolved more and our circuitry can withstand the wattage of the answer without blowing a fuse. I accepted that at some point the ultimate answer would come. An answer that was not fluff, but really and truely satisfied me/us. Max's post touches on this with: the mind can never understand this, but we may come to 'know' it! Perhaps the fuller understanding or comprehension of this will come as we get closer to Source on the return path home! Another thought: gees what if knowing the answer entrained me/us to return to Source in that single instant of knowing? Information is energy. Information changes us. Hmmmm.  


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