Ming the Mechanic:
Israel and US biggest threats

The NewsLog of Flemming Funch
 Israel and US biggest threats2003-11-01 18:11
by Flemming Funch

There's apparently some controversy around a large EU poll which was asking in part what country people considered to be the biggest threat to world peace. The answer was Israel. And what country contributes the most to world instability, to which the answer was the United States. The controversy wasn't about the precision of the poll, but about the fact that less explosive parts of it were published first. Anyway, I'd tend to agree with the results, and I would probably have given the same answers. Weapons of mass destruction and distraction in the hands of well-funded fanatics is a dangerous thing. And reports like this makes me a bit nervous.
"American-made Harpoon missiles, armed with nuclear warheads, are now aimed by Israel’s fleet of Dolphin-class submarines against Iran’s nuclear facilities.

Following September’s exclusive report in American Free Press about Israel’s submarine nuclear attack capability, over 100 Harpoon cruise missiles have been secretly airlifted to the remote island of Diego Garcia, a joint UK-U.S. base in the Indian Ocean.

The three Israeli submarines that arrived at the base early this month were each loaded with 24 Harpoon missiles.

They then set sail for the Gulf of Oman—bringing Iran’s nuclear facilities all within range of the submarines’ payloads.

The decision to launch them is entirely in the hands of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. Just as Sharon gave Washington only a short warning before he gave the order to attack an alleged terrorist camp deep inside Syria, he has made it clear to Washington that the same rule of engagement will apply if it comes to launching the Harpoons."

Not that I know if it is correct, but it wouldn't be particularly surprising.

(Addition, November 6th: As it turns out, there are plenty other validations of the same news item, including public acknowledgements. See, for example the Guardian)

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2 Nov 2003 @ 16:08 by scotty : Jeeze !
now wouldn't that be just all we needed !  

3 Nov 2003 @ 00:24 by waalstraat : I find this Off the Wall
and I will be write a log in answer to it withing the next few days...as you know from our friendly and enjoyable non-public exchange...it would be cool if I can get you to look at this situation more objectively rather than through your ideologically tinted glasses...in the meanwhile all I can say is the I know the lad is well-meaning; however, ha, ha, ha...if I didn't laugh I would cry!  

3 Nov 2003 @ 00:37 by vibrani : ICEJ news responds
Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom was anxious to downplay a new European Commission poll, due to be published Monday, ranking Israel as "the greatest danger to world peace," even as EU critics charged that the results presented positive proof of latent European anti-Semitism.

Shalom said the poll leaked over the weekend to the Spanish daily El Pais, reflects the over exposure of Israel in European media and was countered by another poll last month which showed signs of improvement in Israel’s tattered image.

“One need not dramatize every poll,” Shalom told Ha’aretz, before insisting that Europe is “not a lost cause.” The results could have as much to do with EU efforts to position itself as a counterweight to the US than being simply “anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian,” he argued.

The poll showed that 59% percent of Europeans believe that Israel is a greater threat to world peace than North Korea, Iran, or Afghanistan. According to diplomatic sources in Jerusalem this could serve as a "red light" for Europe's leaders.

Speaking to Ha’aretz a senior diplomatic official argued that if - to the European mind - democratic Israel poses a greater threat than terrorist supporting dictatorial states with weapons of mass destruction then "there is a serious problem about the picture the average European is receiving."

The Simon Wiesenthal Center released a statement saying that if the results of the survey are as reported, "Israel should draw the only conclusion possible – that the European Union and its members should play no role in any future peace process."

Shalom rejected the Wiesenthal center’s criticism outright, calling for a more constructive Israeli engagement with Europe. Nevertheless, his conciliatory tone disguised the fears expressed by his officials who believe the poll could be the beginning of a hardening EU attitude – more in line with popular views.

In fact, according to one official, the survey was most likely commissioned by those in Brussels interested in testing the water regarding a tougher stance on Israel.

International Christian Embassy, Jerusalem


Personal reply:
It comes as no surprise to me to see Flemming post this article as everything he has ever posted about Israel has been negative. And in my opinion, Bruce Kodish's wonderful letter he posted (Kill Bill) can apply here, as well.

"Peace will come when leaders of the nations in the Middle East will teach their people peace. That war is behind us and peace is ahead of us. Educate for peace, and undo the education for war." --- Benjamin Netanyahu. Besides Israel, which nations in the Middle East teach peace and truth? May I remind you that it was Israel who took out the Iraqi nuclear plant years ago(remember when Iraq was sending scud missiles to Tel Aviv and the world said to do nothing about it, and even the U.S. wouldn't help?) when no other nation had the guts to do it...FOR PEACE and to prevent deaths and destruction. So, anyone who thinks that Israel is the greatest threat is going along with the Arab/Muslim backwards world and has lost common sense, and lives in paranoia and prejudice. Sure, the tiny nation of Israel is the biggest threat. Not the U.S. Not China. Not Iran or Iraq. Not Russia, or any other nation. Sure, you're so right (not)...now, why are Jews such a big threat to you? I propose that the biggest threat to world peace is ignorance, lack of compassion, fear, teaching hatred, and extremists who kill and die believing it's holy then celebrate the murders they've committed.  

3 Nov 2003 @ 02:06 by waalstraat : Right on Vibrani
Most of this I fervently agree with! I will be answering this piece too within the next couple of days in my log...you should research Ming's links if you want to get a laugh...or tears....  

3 Nov 2003 @ 02:40 by vibrani : I would be open
as always to any fair discussion on this topic, however I have found that that is not possible with people who only seek to condemn Israel. I'll read your comments, for sure, Bernie.  

3 Nov 2003 @ 06:29 by ming : Peace
Well, we're obviously living in somewhat different worlds. I don't consider bombing nuclear reactors as being FOR PEACE, any more than I believe that the U.S. invasion of Iraq is FOR PEACE. Bombs are not a tool of peace. You don't make peace with people by killing them.

But what I find most interesting, and a bit strange, is that you seem to translate what I was saying into anti-semitism, into some kind of attack or threat against jewish people. There's obviously something going on that I don't understand. If somebody stated that George W Bush is an idiot and the war in Iraq is wrong, I would not by any stretch of my imagination consider that an anti-caucasian remark against people of "my kind".

What I posted here was a couple of news items, and my statement of how I would have answered a poll, and my expression of worry about an unstable nation having submarines armed with nuclear weapons and a willingness to use them.  

3 Nov 2003 @ 06:47 by jobrown : from the Tao

The use of force usually brings requital.
Wherever armies are stationed, briers and thorns grow.
Great wars are always followed by famines.

Weapons are instruments of evil, not the instruments of a good ruler.
When he uses them unavoidably, he regards calm restraint as the best principle.
Even when he is victorious, he does not regard it as praiseworthy,
For to praise victory is to delight in the slaughter of men.

Turn the other cheek.

I treat those who are good with goodness,
And I also treat those who are not good with goodness,
Thus goodness is attained.

Whether it is big or small, many or few, repay hatred with virtue.......

Now isn't that a shame that people don't attain goodness!  

3 Nov 2003 @ 07:52 by waalstraat : You are a Great Progammer
But, you are very illogical in this comment Ming. I don’t think passing on miss information is humanistic service to humanity. One of your sources are off the wall for one thing and even they didn't say that Israel had nuclear tipped warheads on submarines aimed at Iraq...they said Israel submarines are equipped with American Harpoon cruise missels (so is Holland's). They didn't say the cruise missiles on Israeli submarines were nuclear tipped. As far as bombing nuclear reactor--Israel hasn't done that recently—and when they did do that years and years ago under the rational Khomeni's regime, all of Europe was waiting in line to condemn them. However, a few later your heroes, the Europeans all agreed that Hussein should not develope weapons of mass destruction agreed he had to destroy his nuclear developments and capability to create atomic weapons. At that time they joined with the USA to make him do that. Or don’t you recall most European nations were part of the coalition that time. So the European think there is a time when acts of war should be used when irrational governments are developing Nuclear weapons so it couldn’t be for that reason European think Israel the size of the state of New Jersey is such a threat to world peace
Next...you say we accused you of being Anti-Semetic...However I have to admit you have me thinking that someone could be an anti-semite and not be aware of it. Reminds me of the old Archie Bunker shows on TV when Archie would make every type of Racist remarks about African Americans , and he would then deny he was anti-black by saying "Nope I'm not anti-NEGROES I just think they would be happier amongst their own people and so would I."
All you did was post a couple of new item huh...well the news organ you linked us (your readers) to, was one that pointed out that Israel moved out of some of their offices from the world trade center, after being warned by the CIA that it was going to take place. You pass us information from sources like that, with no qualms which validate your preconceived idea about Israel, and your own biases.
Did your cross check your Information or check out that source. What do you know about that news organ? Who funds it? Who is behind it? Do you really believe the CIA would tip Israel off if they were planning to ignore intelligence information...maybe the CIA is capable of that for some twisted Corporate Nation State Reason but they sure wouldn't tip Israel off...they surely would figure the fewer people who know about it the less of a chance to get caught.
You still have some responsibilities to your readers and for justice sake, even it this is merely a blog, not to pass off as so-called facts some biased gossip that some rag printed, that you would like to believe because it support you preconceived ideology.
If that is not true, could you give some definitive information showing that Israel has nuclear tipped missiles on their submarines? Heck, no one has been able to prove that Israel has nuclear weapons (oh they do) but no one has been able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt with hard evidence, and if nations can't do how can your raggy source have such information; yet even now you are still sticking to that claim that Israel has nuclear tipped weapons on their submarines.
Sloppy research my man--but I wouldn't blame Israel if they did have Nuclear tipped Missles. The Iranian Regime’s position is that Israel has no right to exist. Do you agree with that? And they are putting their money where their heart is, by supporting every terrorist group, that convert kids your daughter's age to be human bombers. The Iranians support every group that professes to want to push the Israelis into the see.
Now if they do that and they developed nuclear bombs who do you think they want to use them on. Is it Saudi Arabia they want to use them on. Is it Kuwait? Is it other Gulf States, Is it Pakistan. Ok, come on, or do you not believe that Iran is desiring to develop Nuclear weapons. Even the European nations are concerned about that possibility while their businesses sell them the wherewithal to do so...
Anyway, I didn't call you an anti-Semite...but if we keep having this discussion you may prove that otherwise...Still it won't be me who calls you that!
In my book an real anti-Semite one that is worth more than a fly swatting, instead he is one who openly avows that he wants Jews to suffer. I don’t call pawns who pass around false information, that aids and abets that type anti-semites, for I know many of them would abhor that type.
Oh by the way did you pick up in your thorough researches that their was another poll conducted during that same period that contradicted the findings of your poll.
Warms and Blessings, hope you didn’t take this discussion personally.  

3 Nov 2003 @ 08:22 by ming : Personal
Well, you obviously take it personally. And I'm sure you have your own reasons for that. I don't agree with most of what you're implying here. So, is that a problem? Do I have to? I believe that peace is arrived at primarily by peaceful means, and that any last-resort use of military force has to be coordinated in the international community.  

3 Nov 2003 @ 08:28 by waalstraat : Wrong I do not
take it personally I just believe that with someone with your sense of honor (and I mean that) would be delighted to have someone like me bug you when you present unsubstantiated reports, generated by organs with obviously devious motive, as facts.
You are not perfect though I think you are brilliant...and I am sure you motives are pure.
Believe me Ming with my history, I'm patting myself on the back that I can discuss this calmly with you, and never once personalize it, or
have your personal worth diminished in my perception
You want peace in the middle east how about writing about the need for Arafat and his team to disarm the terrorist in their midst. They say they can't because Israel ruined their infrastructure, yet last week when an American convoy was attacked in Gaza they round up the guilty parties within hours, showing they have much more abilities to stop the senseless terrorism then they would like you to believe.
What do you think? Israelis don't want peace! They have been continually attacked since their inception as a state in 1948 by five countries. Would you want to live like that. And they lived under economic sanctions imposed by Arab League, which they also tried to imposed on those who wanted to buy their oil.
If you like peace, ask yourself is it Isrealis and Jews who are sending suicide bombers to Russia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, America, Indonesia, etc. I don't really like the answer to that question; because I don't hate any religion, or nationality or moral belief system. I have taken a vow to reduce suffering where I can and I am afraid the answer to that question might polarize people more than they are now.
I was an anti vietnam protester who got hit on the head and stung by police battans, and I may be wrong about this, I haven't checked, but I think I wrote the first blog on NCN in the last year protesting Bush's Senseless war in Iraq; moreover most of what I predicted came down.
I was truly ecstatic when Israel negotiated with Arafat and gave him 98% of what he asked for only to be rewarded with the ignighting of the infidata to achieve the other two percent.
So if you are for peace why don't you join a movement to get the Palistineans to keep their end of the agreements they have made, instead pegging Isreal as the bad guys. As long as you buy Arab propaganda -- they have a lot of money to genterate it in Europe and Internationally-- and as long as youhelp propogate without cross checking it without any criteria for validity, Arafat will hold out thinking the EU can pressure Israel to make a peace deal which will threaten their security in the future. Blessings once again to you and all...  

3 Nov 2003 @ 08:51 by scotty : Bernie ! ?
Im wondering if you maybe don't want to just reconsider your last comment a wee bit !
Is it really positive to come out and shout at someone that he's wrong !
I mean - is anyone going to listen to another person tell them blatantly you are wrong !!!
I think I believe that you can dialogue better than that !! Isn't dailogue the way to finding solutions afterall !......

........ahem ! er yes ! well !
I see that you finally agree with me afterall and have come back to dialogue .. er dialogue + + is perhaps more accurate eh !! (heh heh )  

3 Nov 2003 @ 09:16 by waalstraat : Scotty
Keep being the peace maker it makes you an even more beautiful soul..I really feel calm, and I do believe someone can harbor predjudices without realizing it...and I don't think its wrong it isn't and attack....Blessings  

3 Nov 2003 @ 09:20 by scotty : an attack !! heaven forbid !
aargh - who put such an ugly word in your mouth Bernie love !
naah - I admit that just seeing 'wrong' glaring out from the comment (as it did earlier) was sooooo unlike you I just knew that you hadn't had your afternoon teacake - er - perhaps you prefer crumpets ? heh heh heh !
Blessings to you too mon ami.  

25 Nov 2003 @ 22:41 by Nate Caplin @ : Israel, and why Europe hates Israel
I fail to see why Europe holds such anti-Semitic feelings. I mean the US has its own prejudiced, but that prejudice is usually based on skin color, and rarely religion (For example, in Louisianna a political and economic genius ran for governor, he was Catholic, conservative, honest, and had saved the state from financial problems; however, there was one thing wrong with him -- he had dark skin; he was from India originally. So, the idiots in Louisianna voted for a woman, who was inexperienced and knew little about politics, but she had one redeeming quality -- she's white. So, the state that almost elected the grand dragon of the Ku Klux Klan, voted for a unqualified white woman, instead of an honest man with dark skin -- such is the South... and East...and North -- only the American West embraces ideas rather than skin)
Anyway, how could Europe, after all its done to destroy the Jewish people, still be so hateful towards them -- Jews are an endangered species for crying out loud! How could they be a threat? Hitler killed one-third of them and if it weren't for God, the Muslims would have killed the rest of them. Get over it Europe. Pick on a new scapegoat for once. Bashing Jews is just to easy, especially for the EU's 400 million citizens vs. Israel's 5 million.
Why don't you fight someone your own size?
Europeans are bullies!  

26 Nov 2003 @ 05:15 by ming : Europe and Israel
The poll was not about whether people hated jewish people. It wasn't about Jews at all. It was a poll about what country they considered the biggest threat to world peace. Not the existence of the country, not the existence of its people, not their race or religion. Rather the volatile state of its government, and what weapons it has in its arsenal. Nothing to do with anti-semitism, and it is a cheap trick to call it that.

A militant right-wing government that routinely carries out military attacks against neighboring countries, and that feels very threatened and cornered by those countries, and that has submarines with nuclear missiles - that looks to me like a more than insignificant possibility for starting WWIII. Whatever religion such people have matters much less than their weapons and the willingness to use them. But it certainly doesn't make it any better if they have racistic beliefs about being the chosen people, or any inclination towards being martyrs.

Anyway, countries and governments and people are different things. All that happened was that somebody walked around and asked some people questions and they answered. Doesn't mean that Europe suddenly attacked Israel or Jews, or any other useless generality. It was a poll.  

21 Jan 2004 @ 15:26 by Nate Caplin @ : Israel,
Sadly in the European press reporting on Israel does have to do with race. Every Arab country is farther to the right then Israel, but it is consistently described as a right-wing country. Palestinians who kill civilians are referred to as resistance fighters and Israeli soldiers who kill terrorist leaders are called murderers and occupiers. Israel's relationship with UN has everything to do with religion. Nearly half of all UN resolutions condemning countries have Israel as their target. They don't mention Robert Mugabe who kills people because they are white, uses cruel torture devices, and steals land. The UN won't condemn Palestinians for killing civilians; the UN won't condemn Libya (in fact Libya was head of the Human Rights Council); the UN won't condemn Syria for supporting terror against US soldiers (Syria is also on the Human rights council). Israel is barred from being on the Human Rights Council, even though Arab-Israelis have more freedom and a higher standard of living than any other Arabs in the Mid East. The reason Israel is held to a double standard by the UN is because much of the UN is anti-Israel and anti-Semitic. If Israelis were Arab-Muslims, it wouldn't be an issue. But, in Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries, children are taught that Jews are pigs and that Jews are evil. It's pure bigotry that drives the Arab-Muslim war against Israeli Jews and even the USA.  

9 Jul 2004 @ 14:32 by Eric @ : Nuclear Harpoons?
Well, from experience I can say it's a load of crap that Israel has nuclear harpoon missiles. For one the Harpoon as an ANTI_SHIP missile, designed for deployment against seagoing vessels. It also has a VERY limited range (less then 50 miles) which makes it virtually unreasonable for an attack on an inland target. (Especially when Israel has access to Tomahawk missles with much greater range, designed for inland deployment, and nuclear capable). I would definitely be in question of the writers sources of information.  

9 Jul 2004 @ 17:27 by ming : Harpoons
Well, the range is normally up to 140 km. Some experts seem to think it is possible to equip them with nuclear warheads, even if it isn't a terribly good idea, or what they were quite meant for. See article here. But, indeed, there seems to be some controversy about whether the original L.A. Times article is reliable or not, and whether U.S. and Israeli officials really confirmed it or not. Article here that is critical of the idea. Mostly some official denials, but also somebody from Jane's Naval Weapon Systems who says it is impossible. But others obviously would like to do it too, like Pakistan  

15 Sep 2004 @ 06:37 by Lisa @ : The pack of lies about the Middle East
It is curious that so many people seem intent on categorizing the vast array of countries based on the distorted media representation of the Middle East. The few minority groups that run Iran and other one-off stanch traditional regimes are presented as the total Arab world.
Here are some facts:
Tehran, Iran prior to the current take over of the fundamentalist regime was the sister city of Los Angeles, California.
The black robe that you see in all the pictures is simply a traditional over garment - most woman are wearing Western clothing under this clock which is removed once off the dusty streets.
The covering on men and women - head and body - serve to protect the person from the intense sun of the desert. It is 140F in the shade in Saudi Arabia. Plus the clothes are very comfortable.
The literacy rate is very high in most countries when adjusted for immigration. The US has this same issue.
Woman control near 80% of all the money in the Middle East.
Woman work and hold office in the Middle East - even Sadam had a woman in his cabinet. The US still hasn't had a woman president; only gave woman the right to vote in this century; and has a horrendous history of murder and slavery.
Women have had the right to vote and hold office in the Middle East for centuries.
The entire problem with the world is the few Godless people that choose to make money from selling weapons and destabilizing the world for profit.
The "Berlin Wall" that is now being built in Israel is a slap in the face to all that worked so hard to bring down the same in Germany.
Peace on earth will come when everyone removes the power from those that wish to control.  

27 Sep 2004 @ 03:21 by Not relevent @ : Israel is a fraud.
Israel is a counterfeit, a fraud, a coward country that never made it on it's own that uses mass media to project the exact opisite. Israel's entire exsistance relys on mankinds greatest diabolicle conspiracy that which it even has it's own people believing in it's lies. The jews have punished the Arabs for hitlers doings, by stealing palestine and claiming it a their property. And then on top of that stealing their culture and terroizing their families. Israel never does anything for the world as it claims, the bombing of the Iraqi nuclear facilities is entirely for there own security. Just like they claim that Iran threatens the world when they know Iran Only wants regional power and want the counterfeit regime out. The reason they say Iran threatens the world is becasue they need support, once again because they can't make it on their own. I have nothing against the jews but the zionist regime has to stop, it has to. Your using mass media, politics and wealth to destroy, curupt, deface and basterdise another religion so you can satisfy your ideolgy of expansionism. You are truly pathetic, it's just that this arogant world doesn't know it yet. With the power of the Internet and many other new forms of media your ability to manipulate people minds is weakening. That is why jews fear Arab media cause the truth will be exploited.
Remeber one thing, when Israel falls, and believe me one day it will , of course with heavy consequences dont expect the remainder of the world to show jews any mercy ever again. You felt power, took it and abused it. You have caused the majority of the wars in this century. You are a greedy people who worship money not God, you are the ultimate theifs.  

12 Oct 2004 @ 20:48 by Nathan Caplin @ : Attacks on Jews, Israel
Please stop the hateful speech. Jews, Christians and Muslims are all children of G-d. Each has a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  

2 Dec 2004 @ 22:43 by Nathan Caplin @ : Not Relevant is very sad.
Funny that "Not Relevant" claims to have "nothing against jews", but he tells the Jewish people that they shouldn't expect any sympathy if they are the victims of another genocide campaign. "Not Relevant" you are misrepresenting the truth to promote your hatred of innocent people.  

13 Oct 2006 @ 23:54 by mishka @ : to stupid by not relevent
i am a christian and a supporter of israel. let me tell you one thing: israel is forever! many people and nations tried to destroy israel and the are gone but the jews are still here. may god of israel show you no mercy!!!!  

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