Ming the Mechanic:
Denmark vs Mohammed
The NewsLog of Flemming Funch
 Denmark vs Mohammed2006-01-30 23:59
857 comments
picture by Flemming Funch

I didn't think I would get to see that. Muslims burning Danish flags in the street. OK, maybe because Denmark joined Bush's ill-conceived invasion of Iraq. But that isn't it at all. We're talking about cartoons. Yahoo News
BEIRUT, Lebanon - The controversy over Danish caricatures of Prophet Muhammad escalated Monday as gunmen seized an EU office in Gaza and Muslims appealed for a trade boycott of Danish products. Denmark called for its citizens in the Middle East to exercise vigilance.

Denmark-based Arla Foods, which has been the target of a widespread boycott in the Middle East, reported that two of its employees in Saudi Arabia were beaten by angry customers. Aid groups, meanwhile, pulled workers out of Gaza, citing the threat of hostilities.

The 12 drawings — published in a Danish paper in September and in a Norwegian paper this month — included an image of the prophet wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse. Islamic tradition bars any depiction of the prophet, even respectful ones, out of concern that such images could lead to idolatry.

Danish government officials have expressed regret over the furor but have refused to get involved, citing freedom of expression. The Jyllands-Posten newspaper has refused to apologize for publishing the drawings and has said it did not mean to insult Islam.
OK, maybe it wasn't the greatest idea in the world to ask some cartoonists for pictures of the Prophet Mohammed. But, hey, Denmark is a free country where nobody will get away with taking themselves too seriously. So, if you want to make a funny, irreverant or insulting picture of the Pope, Queen Elizabeth, Jesus, Elvis, George Bush ... or Mohammed, then... so what. Might be funny, might not be.

But a lot of muslims apparently feel that their god gets gravely insulted by Danish cartoons of his prophet with a funny hat on. Which, however much I'd like to respect a diversity of beliefs, I can't really find a way of looking at it that doesn't make me question the sanity of whole lot of people.

I think that what these folks maybe don't understand is that Denmark is a country where the government doesn't control the press. Maybe that's a novel idea. Yes, if the prime minister had made fun of Mohammed, that would have been very dumb, and he should probably apologize, for the sake of good diplomacy. But there's no way he can give an official apology for a cartoon in a newspaper, and he shouldn't. So, now Saudi Arabia has recalled their ambassador, Libia is closing its embassy, Egypt is refusing a loan they otherwise were eager to get, and Danish products are being boycotted.


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857 comments

31 Jan 2006 @ 01:08 by Neferteeti @220.238.146.223 : Denmark Vs Mohammad
Or should we say Islam Vs freedom of expression?
So what?! let them boycot the Danes and refuse their loans. For the sake of upholding precious freedoms, the Danes should NEVER NEVER apologise.  

31 Jan 2006 @ 01:27 by vibrani : It's alright
for Muslims to demean non-Muslims any way and any time they choose, but not okay for a cartoon in a paper about them? Cry me a river. Can't wait to see Albert Brooks' new film about finding humor in Muslim countries. Think he found any?  

31 Jan 2006 @ 01:38 by ming : Islam
Well, I'm not going to say that it is the religion of Islam versus lots of other things. All the religions I'm aware of appear to be originally based on some fundamental principles which are nice and reasonable enough, including Islam. Where it goes wrong is much later in the chain, where interpretations of interpretations have been twisted around so much that some people believe some really wacko things, and, worse, that they're sure they're right about them. It still isn't any reason to condemn the whole subject. Some people might actually be able to think with it.  

31 Jan 2006 @ 04:31 by vibrani : Unfortunately
it is the wacko and twisted things that are the spokespeople/terrorists by and large for Islam.  

31 Jan 2006 @ 07:56 by Mohammad Kanaan @212.77.203.246 : Denmark VS Mohammad
Back in April of 2003, an EU public poll of 7500 EU citizens found that 59% of them feel that Israel is the biggest threat to world peace. The EU without hesitance intervened to condemn the Poll as anti-Jewish. I wonder why does freedom of speech is only brought up when the matter comes to insulting Islam and Muslims. Can that same Danish newspaper publish an article to allege that only 5 million Jews were killed during the Nazi Holocaust and not 6 million? Will anybody talk about freedom of speech then?

I agree with you on one point: The Danes are free to publish or insult whoever they wish. We as Muslims are also free to purchase or not purchase the products we want. Its all about freedom isn't it?.

My message to fellow Danes is: It was nice having you as friends for the past few decades. Now that you have insulted us for no reason and refused to apologize, we wouldn't want to hear from you again.  

31 Jan 2006 @ 08:52 by jazzolog : Well Said Mohammad Kanaan
I can't think of a single religion that would not feel offense if its God(s) or prophet(s) were depicted wearing a "funny hat." It may be an unfortunate trait in human character that I can make fun of my family...but you can't. Nevertheless here we are. Accepting slings and arrows seems to be a major hurdle on each path if humanity ever is to achieve Peace.

But there's more: there's the act of apology. In the States we toss off apologies like farts and belches. On his weekly Le Show, humorist Harry Shearer presents a segment called Apologies Of The Week, in which he simply reads the assembled apologies by most Americans to each other that have made the news. His point, demonstrated one after the other, is that people here don't really apologize at all. Most of them say something like, "I am so sorry you misunderstood what I really meant," or "I am so sorry you took my comment out of context." In other words, it's really YOUR fault. How does that stuff go down in France and Denmark?

We might also remember that when one group is under attack or attacking with troops and bombs, we tend to get in a little different state of sensitivity. We might even give up all our "rights" just to make the fear go away.  

31 Jan 2006 @ 11:38 by ming : Insults
>My message to fellow Danes is: It was nice having you as friends for the past few decades. Now that you have insulted us for no reason and refused to apologize, we wouldn't want to hear from you again.

Now, that's where it gets wacky. There's around 5 million people in Denmark. All of them didn't insult all muslims because a newspaper printed some cartoon pictures of Mohammed. As a matter of fact, most of them were not involved at all. That handful of people who were probably didn't mean it as an insult to all muslims. But in case they somehow did, those would be the people to ask for an apology.

And, seriously, if that's how deep your friendships go, it doesn't really count for much.

Denmark, like most western countries, consists of individuals. Within the limits of the law, individuals are free to do what they're inspired to do, including to say or draw what they'd like to. If a newspaper publishes a drawing, it isn't because all Danes somehow had a conference and a vote and decided it was the thing to do. It is not gonna happen. Thinking that you need to punish "Danes" because a couple of them made a drawing that you didn't like is kind of like kicking your house because the mail is late, and then asking your neighbor for an apology. It is dumb, a lack of understanding of cause and effect and how things are connected together. And, no, that's not an insult against muslims, but a comment about bad reasoning. If somebody offends you, you might look for an apology. If they didn't offend you, they're not likely to apologize for doing so.

>Can that same Danish newspaper publish an article to allege that only 5 million Jews were killed during the Nazi Holocaust and not 6 million? Will anybody talk about freedom of speech then?

There you're probably right. That's a touchy subject all across Europe and in the U.S. and, yes, something you can't talk freely about without having a bunch of people accuse of of all sorts of things. That's unfortunate. In the U.S. the same goes for black people. Everybody's bending over backwards to not accidentally say something offensive, and if you do, you're suddenly a racist who's on the side of slavery and the holocaust.

Anyway, I'm against generalizations based on race or religion. It isn't valid to say that ALL muslims are so-and-so, or that ALL black people do something-or-the-other. Of course there are certain traits or beliefs or behaviors that statistically will be exhibited by various groups. But that's very difficult to talk about, because somebody usually will jump to some universal generalization. Like, if somebody said something bad about some Jewish people, he's against Jews, or if some Danes offended some Muslims, then all Danes offend all Muslims, of if you think some particular black guy is dumb and lazy, you're being a racist who thinks blacks are dumb and lazy.

Humans often have faulty mental circuitry when it comes to noticing the difference between one, two and everybody.

Like, you noticed when that 59% survey came out, the Israeli government got very offended, called Europe anti-semitic, and asked for an apology and retraction. Which, again is a bizarrely crazy logic. It was a survey. It asked people their opinion on something, and they answered. You can't then go and ask these people's governments to take it back and apologize for their offense, because there wasn't any. That's what people answered, period. It wasn't an official message to Jewish people, it was some numbers tabulated from a survey. But it certainly should have told the Israeli government something about what they're doing, and nothing that has anything to do with their race or religion.  

31 Jan 2006 @ 11:46 by Johan @83.88.252.162 : A word
just a word from a dane, standing on the outside, watching this escalating.
[link]  

31 Jan 2006 @ 11:55 by ming : Denmark and Islam
Thank you for that thoughtful posting, Johan. Yes, for a Dane it is confusing, strange, unexpected. Danes don't think like that, Danes don't respond to anything in any remotely similar fashion. Would Danes suddenly boycott Chinese goods if some Chinese cartoonist drew a picture of Queen Margrethe wearing a moustache? Of course not, it is totally mindnumbingly bizarre to imagine such a thing for a Dane. World views are colliding.  

31 Jan 2006 @ 12:57 by vibrani : It is absurd
to think Israel as the biggest threat to the world. Israel didn't create 9/11, nor does it teach and send terrorists around the world; planting bombs, as human bombs, blowing up anyone who isn't a Jew for god and then celebrating they've murdered someone. Muslims are the biggest world threat, say it like it is. From the Phillipines, to Indonesia, the Middle East, to Europe, everywhere.

It was Muslims who were responsible for the Marine barracks bombing in Lebanon; the Munich Olympics massacre; the Achille Lauro hijacking at sea; the Lod Airport shootings; countless foreign assassinations and murders of dissidents among his own ranks; the politically motivated airline hijacking; the cold-blooded killer of U.S. diplomats. Arab Muslims blew up hundreds of young Israelis going about their daily lives, and the luckily foiled plan to destroy Israel with the arms carried on the Karine-A. Do you recall 1970, when Arafat leading the PLO hijacked four civilian planes demanding that European governments release PLO terrorists from their prisons? After the Europe agreed, and the PLO agreed that the hostages would be released, the PLO blew up the planes. In 1972, alone, the PLO blew up a West German electricity plant, a Dutch gas plant and an oil refinery in Trieste, Italy; kill, in conjunction with the Japanese Red Army, 24 at Israel's Lod airport; and massacre 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics. In 1973, Black September took the American ambassador and his deputy (along with one Belgian diplomat) hostage in Sudan's capital, Khartoum, and, after President Nixon refused to negotiate, murdered them. This is the man who got a Nobel Peace Prize. Who blew up malls in many countries - Australia sure got a rude awakening recently? You might want to read this: [link]

Who murders their own daughters simply because they don't want to marry someone, or because they want to be free? (Honor killings - hello!) Or, what about forced female genital mutilation in the name of Islam - to torture women, not allow them their natural right to have sex and enjoy it? Many women die from that barbaric surgery. Ask the Christians in Jerusalem who the biggest threat is. It isn't Jewish Israel. It is the Muslims. Islam does not mean "peace." It does mean "submission" or "surrender of one's will to the laws of Islam and Allah." Everyone who is not a Muslim is an infidel.

Evoking the lesson of the Holocaust, Yad Vashem urged the international community to take immediate action to stop the mass murder going on in Sudan. The rare public warning issued by Israel's Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority calls on the world to "act before it is too late" and stop the slaughter going on in Sudan's western Darfur region, which "includes aspects of ethnic cleansing and perhaps even genocide."

Yad Vashem (Israeli) urges world leaders to take immediate concerted action to halt the tragedy in Darfur before it devolves further, to provide effective humanitarian aid to the region and to punish the perpetrators of the heinous crimes that are being committed there," a press release issued Sunday read. Tens of thousands of black Africans have died in more than a year of violence that has turned into a systematic slaughter carried out by Arab militiamen in Darfur, a vast and remote region in western Sudan the size of Iraq.

The United Nations estimates up to 30,000 people have been killed in the violence, although some analysts say that the death toll is in fact much higher. The fighting, which broke out 15 months ago, has forced over one million to flee their homes, while more than 2 million people are in desperate need of food and medicine. The violence erupted when two groups drawn from Darfur's African tribes took up arms over what they regard as unjust treatment by the government in their long-simmering struggle over land and resources with Arab countrymen.

The Arab militias then began attacking the black Africans. The deadly African violence comes as the world marked 10 years since the 1994 Rwandan genocide where at least 500,000 and as many as 1,000,000 people were murdered in 100 days. "It is imperative that we learn the lesson from past failures to respond in time to evolving, genocidal evil," Yad Vashem said. "The red line for world response has to be much before a Holocaust or genocide, said the director of Yad Vashem's library, Dr. Robert Rozett.

Since 2000, in Algiers, Algeria, twenty-five people, including a family of twelve, were killed in the past three days during a surge of violence in Algeria, where an Islamic insurgency continues to claim new lives on an almost daily basis, news reports said on Oct. 21.

Arab militias in Sudan are gang-raping and abducting girls as young as eight and women as old as 80 in Lebanon, systematically killing, torturing, or using them as sex slaves.

Who is talking genocide today? Iran, Muslims - against Israel and Jews.

Those are only a few examples. So don't tell me it's Israel who is the greatest threat. What nonsense. Some people just can't face reality.  

31 Jan 2006 @ 13:49 by jazzolog : By The Way
Happy New Year.

The Muslim World marks today Amun Jadid, the Islamic New Year. As the first day of the month of Muharram in the Hijrah year 1427, today marks the Hijrah in 622 CE when the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) moved from Mecca to Medina and set up the first Islamic state.
[link]  

31 Jan 2006 @ 22:01 by D.D. @80.197.50.163 : My own personal Fatwa.
Today I learned that muslim rebels in Iraq have issued a Fatwa against the Danish troops who are there as Denmark’s contribution to the Coalition. This shouldn’t really surprise anyone, as the issuing of Fatwas seems to be the standard answer to anything the muslims don’t like.

In honour of this latest Fatwa I have taken it upon myself to issue a Fatwa of my own.

I hereby decree that due to my blatantly apparent moral and ethical superiority to the Islamic extremists the following orders shall be carried out.

All Danish companies shall hire muslims only to carry out the most demeaning and trivial of tasks, and only if such tasks are rewarded with a low salary.

All Danish Universities and places of higher learning shall only accept one in a hundred muslims, and let even fewer graduate.

The Danish Police and Danish Courts shall arrest and convict muslims in such a number as to make them disproportionately represented in the various crime statistics (Sometimes by a ratio so disproportionate that they will be more than 1000 times more likely to commit certain crimes than native Danes)

The Danish Population shall treat muslims with contempt wherever they encounter them, leaving them to feel isolated both socially and economically.

So let it be written, so let it be done. My every command shall be carried out.




Wow, my Fatwa is already working….  

1 Feb 2006 @ 02:42 by vibrani : The sane voice of Islam
please read my log about Sheik Palazzi, as he is the sane and balanced, healthy voice of Islam. Unfortunately, Muslims like Palazzi are a minority. But maybe if more people learn about him things can change. [link]  

1 Feb 2006 @ 05:59 by ashanti : Uhhh, Ming.....
You opened this can of worms. :-)

You state:
"Anyway, I'm against generalizations based on race or religion"
"Humans often have faulty mental circuitry when it comes to noticing the difference between one, two and everybody."

and then later you say: "Danes don't think like that, Danes don't respond to anything in any remotely similar fashion"

ALL Danes????? Ooops.

What about Muslim Danes? And does that mean ALL Muslim Danes? What about individual Muslim Danes?

Just adding some parmesan (partisan) to the semantic spaghetti. :-)

I do agree with you that the prime cause of conflict in our world is the inability to a) even comprehend viewpoints other than one's own b) tolerate different viewpoints, so long as they are not harmful and destructive to others/the planet/the universe.

- ashanti  

1 Feb 2006 @ 06:34 by Mohammad Kanaan @212.77.203.246 : Happy new year to all
> Now, that's where it gets wacky. There's around 5 million people in Denmark. All of them didn't insult all muslims because a newspaper printed some cartoon pictures of Mohammed....

Those cartoons were published 4 months ago, the real fury by Muslims came only recently when a public poll in Denmark showed that 79% felt that an apology is NOT in order and when the prime minister refused even to meet with a Danish Muslim delegation. To me it felt that the whole country approves of it and this is when I started to feel that Danish butter doesn't taste as good any more. Our goal is not to punish anybody, its about psychology: When you go to a shop to buy goods and the person doesn't respect you, you walk away.

> There you're probably right. That's a touchy subject all across Europe and in the U.S. and, yes, something you can't talk freely about without having a bunch of people accuse of of all sorts of things.

What many people are failing to appreciate is that you have your own touchy subjects that you don't allow people to talk about and we Muslims have our own. How convenient it is to stop people from talking about your touchy subjects while feel the right to insult and slander others.

My comment about the EU poll of Israel was not intended to bring the subject into this forum. All I was trying to highlight is the hypocrisy of the Danish and EU positions when they make claims about unlimited freedom of speech on one hand and then they meet to condemn a public poll of their own citizens.  

1 Feb 2006 @ 08:55 by Ali @80.84.141.91 : Oh God Bless our prophet Mohammad
Oh God Bless our prophet Mohammad
That's so shamed on Denmark to do something like that.  

1 Feb 2006 @ 11:11 by Kim @80.161.98.52 : Selective...
Mohammad Kanaan. You take things out of context to promote your own case. The poll consisted of 1.000 people. And over 50% said, that they understood, why Muslims were upset, because the pictures were offending. The poll where 79% didnt felt an apology was in order, was because the Muslims want it from the Government. Almost 50% thought it had to come from the newspaper, who publiced the cartoons. Why should the danish people and the danish Government apologize for something, we havent done. The Danish can and shall not interfere with the freedom of expression. Its up to the danish court to decide if the newspaper has gone to far. Not the government.  

1 Feb 2006 @ 11:40 by Hanan Taha @196.202.86.251 : clearing a point
Mohammed Kanaan...Thank you, You've made a clear point :hypocrisy of the Danish and EU positions when they make claims about unlimited freedom of speech on one hand and then they meet to condemn a public poll of their own citizens.

This is exactly the situation as every nation has its own sensitive issue which is being refused to talk about in an offensive way.
We love Prophet Mohammed ( Peace be upon him) more than our own families and when you love someone,you refuse any offense to him.
This is not a situation of punishment as it is as a blame ( a general blame ).
everything has limits , even the free speech, and this is one of the limits.You can critisize terrorists as being a bunch of psychic people , but don't relate them to whole muslims and the muslims' prophet because they call themselves muslims.We even despise them as you do.
what Jylland Posten did is exactly the generalization that you hate.  

1 Feb 2006 @ 12:22 by ming : Generalizing
Ashanti, you're right. I noticed the self-contradiction after I posted it, but decided to leave it as-is.

Can I generalize about Danish people, while saying that it is wrong to generalize about Danish people? I suppose where I usually feel alright about generalizing about a group of people is where it is in a fairly positive setting, and an attempt of understanding the sort of group consciousness in some area. So, I might happily say that Danish people do this, and French people do that, because this is how they think, etc. The trouble would start if, hahah, I generalize my generalization. I.e. if I actually expect ALL Danish or French people to think and do exactly like I said. And I would try to either fault all of them for doing so, or I would fault somebody for not being like they're supposed to, according to my generalization.

So, we might learn something by synthesizing what a "Dane" is like, or what a "Muslim" is like. And an insurance company can calculate how a "Female Driver" behaves. All of which might provide some reasonable predictions if one is dealing with many people. But which is utterly useless in making a reliable prediction for an individual. And which becomes the cause of injustice, hate and wars when applied unthinkingly to ALL of that category, and used to condemn them.

Generalizations can be useful for understanding complex situations, but become a source of insanity when we run them backwards, and insist that the world must conform to our generalizations, or else.  

1 Feb 2006 @ 12:58 by Ahmed Fakhroo @82.194.62.23 : Danes sick joke - freedom of speech
Mohammad Kanaan style of superb argument is a reflection of a very Muslim civilized person thinking who must speak truth in accordance with the Islamic teachings. However, What I couldn’t understand is why the Danish paper picked up on the greatest character humanity has borne such as Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him) to poison the relations amongst Danes Muslim & Non-Muslim population, in particular, and the Danes and the Muslim population of the world in general. It was a very vicious, offensive move to say the least.

Further, why was it the Prophet (PBUH) who died 14 centuries ago? If the paper has its own agenda against Muslims; she could have chosen any of the present Muslim Leaders or/ celebrities and attacked or/ ridiculed him as she wished. Why the Prophet (PBUH) in particular, and not one of the contemporary characters who are in hundreds. That was not a sheer coincidence. It was a conspiracy without doubt.

The freedom of speech is no longer marketable merchandise. This was in evidence when President Bush and his gang killed the Al-Jazira correspondents as well as trying to bomb their Studio Headquarter in Doha. Freedom of speech is a cheap game well-played by the West and was believed by the naive people, but nowadays, it is worthless in any bazaar in the Arab & Muslim Worlds.  

1 Feb 2006 @ 17:11 by Faisal @82.123.38.3 : Amazing!
A European poll which pointed to Israel as a threat was heavily protested and debated and discredited by its detractors.

Cartoons of Israelis (who are technically at war with Arabs) in the Arab press are heavily protested and we never hear the end of it.

Any negative depiction of a Jew in any media anywhere in western europe would get you in serious trouble, possilbly even jailed, even for debating the holocaust!

And you want Muslims to NOT protest the riddiculing of their prophet?!

Clear hypocricy and double standard on your part, oh civilised west.

We keep hearing day-in-day-out about how terrible and evil anti-semitism is.

You all know, and you alwyays try to lecture Muslims, that free speech must be responsible, and inflamatory material must be banned.

Then you turn around and you do this.

And now you say we dont have the right to NOT buy Danish or be insulted!

Amazing. Simply amazing.  

1 Feb 2006 @ 17:28 by anyone @83.253.16.163 : most people think
Ahmed Fakthroo:
What would you do if a newspaper in saudi-arabia or other muslim-nation draw a caricature of buddah or in some way offended other religions than islam ?
And newspapers had polls that showed that 80% of the population think that an apology is not in order.

By the way the poll wasn't about if the publication of the cartoon was right thing to do. It was about if it is right to apoligies for it. Non-muslims would say danish people fight for their freedom of speech/press and not to offend islam. But muslims would defend themsleves and think the opposite.

But I guess it's a question of interest and value. I don't intend to offend anyone but for me the value of freedom of speech/press is far more important than any prophet or god.

Mohammad Kanaan:
It is true what you say about psychologi, but what if you would find out that 80% of all people in non-muslim countries wouldn't give a rats-ass about muslims. Would you stop all import from those countries and go back to stone-age.


I follow a religion called FuckAllOtherReligionsInTheirAssHole. It's simple it only got two rules.

first holy rule: If anyone offends this religion, kill them.

second holy rule: Fuck all religions, fuck mohamed, fuck jesus, fuck moses, fuck buddha and all gods, godess, prophets, priest, priestess, icons and such up their pretty asses.

Now I fight my right of free religion.  

1 Feb 2006 @ 19:11 by keith manheck @24.147.41.86 : muhammed caricatures
I still haven't seen these cartoons that have gotten these Mulims in such a snit.Personally if it were any of the other main religions, all you would get is complaints. It always seems to be Muslims and their backward thinking
religion(yes I said it!!)who espouse violence agaist so many others. This planet would be so much better off without their fundamentalist views(the same here in the US with Christian fundies)If these animals want a Jihad, so be it!! I would much rather see the elimination of this cancer on civilization.
We need to preserve civilization as we know it. If 1 billion need to be eliminated to protect the remaining 5 billion so be it!!Harsh, I'll admit,but
we may be dealing with the survival of humanity here.(This should relly raise some hackles)  

1 Feb 2006 @ 20:37 by Daniel @80.88.153.206 : comment
Muslems feel that there is nothing wrong in wishing death to others (Aka "death to America" & now "death to Denmark") or burning up the symbol of sovereignty of others (witness the flag burning in the picture above). It is funny to think that only muslims have feelings that can be hurt. They wish death to other people and burn their flags and they think they have not hurt those peoples feelings. The issue in hand is that some western papers have made carricatures of mohammad and hence by implication Allah. That in the Muslim world is blasphemy. Now if Allah is all that powerful, muslims should allow Allah to bring wreak vengence on the sinners, after all there is something call "judgement day". For a muslim to come out and fight on behalf of Allah is an insult to Allah. Allah is all-powerfull, all-knowing and all-seeing. To come out and kill on his behalf shows that the muslim does not believe in Allah, he believes that his Allah is a powerless weakling who can not defend himself, it probably shows that his Allah does not exist.

So my advise to muslims is that you hurt and alliniate more people out there by chanting "death to them" and burning their flags which is the symbol of their freedom and sovereignty, afterall the caricatures were made not of Muslims but of their eternally living Allah who should be perfectly capable of dealing with those that sinned against him!  

1 Feb 2006 @ 21:09 by Daniel @80.88.153.206 : Further comments

I would like to point out that the decline of Christianity among western nations came about because of a worse stance taken by christian leaders during the middle ages (or is it thae dark ages?). During the period of inquisitition, centuries ago, blasphemy was a crime punishable by death. The laws were so draconian and harsh that to merely believe that the earth was round and not flat was to invite being quickly burned at the stake. The man who first translated the bible from latin to English (William Tindale, i believe) was promptly burnt at the stakes. Galileo escaped death by confessing that he made an error in his science theories about the earth being round.

Of course for any religion to believe that other peoples expressions is a blasphemy is to be in the path of decline like Christian doctrines of centuries ago. Muslims should believe that their Allah is perfectly capable of dealing with those who blapheme agaist him. To insist otherwise is to be like the inquisition leaders of the dark ages. Only a religion in decline will haunt others for not believing in it and insisting that its ways are the only right ways. If Muslims insist on imposing their will not only in their suppressive countries but also in the free countries of others, then it is only a matter of time before they are cast in the dustbin of history wherein lies the doctrine of the inquisitors of the dark ages. Change is a must and would come even if it's casualties are dark-age religions like islam!  

1 Feb 2006 @ 21:55 by ming : Offense
It is probably true that if a Danish newspaper published a collection of cartoons about Jews in gas chambers, the uproar would probably have forced the prime minister to end up apologizing. Even if it still didn't have anything to do with him or the Danish government. There's hypocrisy. So, I can understand if Muslims would feel that they have as much right to be offended as anybody else.

And they do. My issue is with the wrongful targetting and mis-assignment of responsibility. It was probably dumb of the newspaper to do what they did. Denmark has a Muslim population too, and they should have known that it would deeply offend a bunch of people, whether they have a right to publish cartoons or not.

But it still isn't something that the Danish government could have prevented or hindered, or that they have any kind of authority to prevent or hinder or forbid. The Danish society just isn't based on that kind of control, and that's a good thing.

The whole thing offends my sense of logic. If a company does something you don't like, by all means boycott it, and express your anger. If a government does something you don't like, speak out against it, demonstrate, or whatever. But try to pick the right target. If a journalist does something you don't like, you can maybe hold the newspaper responsible. You can maybe hold a company responsible that owns that newspaper. But you can't reasonably hold everybody with the same nationality responible. Not their government either, when nothing illegal or even out of the ordinary took place.

You have a right to your own religion. You have a right to believe things that some others might find really bizarre. You might reasonably expect others to treat your beliefs with respect when they're interacting with you. But you have no right to force others to not offend you. In particular, you have no right to demand that other people with other beliefs have to act according to yours back in their own territory.  

1 Feb 2006 @ 22:48 by IslamIsDying @212.33.117.227 : ........
Im an arab christian, living in the town of bethlehem, which is considered the birth of christianity. As most of you know, Islam makes about 90% of the population here, And let me tell you, it's like living in a farm full of pigs.

1st of all, Vibrani thank you.....You're the only one that stated the truth here, Islam is the source os terror, and i'm telling you this from experience, because i live with them "pigs" everyday. Just 2 days ago, 3 muslims attacked a christian grocer and robbed his store, and a week before that, another gang of muslims burned down a christian family's house just because they live in a muslim neighberhood.

Jesus christ said that no other prophets will come after him, and that if someone does come then he is a fake, well, mohammed came after jesus, and made a religion based on sex ! The prophet married over 30 women and slept with a different woman each night, and yet muslims makes their girls wear the "hijab" which is the peace of cloth on their heads and even force them not to have sex ever ?? Give me a break.
I'm sure some of you think i made this up, well what can i say, you're not living where i am.....because where i'm living you will become a racist no matter what you do..... they steal your land and murder your women and children for the name of "allah", How the f*ck can god say go and murder christians enlightened by my son jesus) in my name??? You tell me

Btw sorry for my lousy english :S  

1 Feb 2006 @ 22:57 by IslamIsDying @212.33.117.227 : Forgot something
I forgot to say that there is NOTHING wrong with those drawings, this is how the world sees islam, a bunch of ugly terrorists going around killing people and then going to celebrate...freakin' barbarics.
As for christian arabs living among these pigs, what can i say, americans and europeans see us as terrorists, which we are not, and israelis see us as palestinians, and muslims say us as kafirs( non muslims that should be killed)....and more than that, these ugly terrorists are stealing our land, we are truly the ones that are hurting the most from this :|  

1 Feb 2006 @ 23:07 by IslamIsDying @212.33.117.227 : 1 last thing
1 more thing.
Even though palestinians are at war with israelis, I have to admit israel is not doing anything wrong, it's those muslim creeps that go around blowing up women with their little kids that are jumping around harmlessly in a toy store, us christians here dont have anything against israel, and israel knows that. About 6 months ago a muslim raped a christian girl here, and a very big fight happenned after it between muslims and christians, and let me tell you, israeli jeeps and soldiers were one kilometer away just in case us christians needed any help, because they know the hell we are living in. So next time you say israel is wrong, think again, Israel is just a country trying to defend it's children from ugly bastards that threaten to kill them.  

1 Feb 2006 @ 23:59 by shaman sayari @212.138.47.24 : I am prepared to discuss an anybody.
The Islam and the prophet Mohammad brought the beauties of the moralities and the best. We had been cautious of Mohammad he interdicted the abuse of the other and if she was not ethereal and if she was invalide. Did he become definite why? So that they don't revile the God and the Islam.

I believe in a judaism and the christianity. As that I believe hinder Isa Christ build Myriam the virgin mary is Prophet.

You had annoyed me very very when I looked at this horn from the sarcasm by prophet from prophets of the God. If he is not capable of his latent spite hiding on Islam then in the less circumstances he honors the god.
This portraits had brought forth a far too much reaction at the Moslems throughout the world. There a More than intimate of a conceded million change the world. Is she/you believing in they will remind how well they are received by this offense?

I fear to be separated from them the extremists they fear you because of your extremism. I are not been honored but become necessary to be educated put off for each deed of an adverse reaction.

I look at the solver of an America I/she/you went to extremes and was self-important on states of the deliverers Israel contributed to her obscurities and its aggression and the killing of the Palestines.

She/you takes the nuclear weapon away from Iran she/you guides him to Israel! Alice this extremism? He was for her deed this I/you walked about a deed then I/she/you roved in her house's barrenness. A now eked out a living New York in fright doesn't know him previously.

I return and I return that not I break. If I/you was I break that I/she/you began my talk tactfully and a nice style indeed a sir and apostolic Mohammad commissions me with that as what I/you pointed out previously.

The sarcasm by the prophets never she/you is greater than the world except a misery and an unhappiness and a struggle. Then who Prophet insulted Mohammad then as if leave the god. The invitation of the expression freedom doesn't permit the abuse of the messengers the vineyardist.

By amicable O sir that fulfill? Why? the Islam always resists this runner westerly?
Why? don't discuss a matter of the Nazi crematory for the Jews? And that the freedom of the expression stops that!!. As soon as her debater and trying her realities's uncovering considers from forbidden in the west!!. He resists who argues with her to pursuit of the judgement the returns Semite!!. Where did they call you in freedom of the expression? This matter an abuse is not in her for the messengers and the religions but he told my history a teller he needs a search and a study.

I appeal to you to look for the shelves Mohammad from the original resorts.

He granted how a delay to the Islam he is deployed through the west without a bullet to free an one. This guideline however the Islam is the debt of moralities , the noble deed , a truth , an abstinence and an impartiality.

I search I read and conclude that by its breath. I look at the world around you well and not she/you lies to the same of your.

I terminate my letter with a phrase ( you take a brain in possession she/you distinguishes between the right by him and the error ).

It makes me happy to receive your reply shortly.  

2 Feb 2006 @ 00:06 by some one can accept others @213.178.255.6 : What's wrong
Free mind force every one to respet others sacred ideas ...
When you insult the others sacred ideas ...that's not a free mind
that's chaos

Burning Denmark flag is an act of anger not intend to insult chrisitianity
When you burn Saudi Arabia flag you are burning the flag of that country ...
not the flag of Islam

We must respect each other weather we were Muslim or Chrisitian or jewish ...since we all pray for the same god...

and who insult Islam is not christian or jewish
Becuase who insult Islam is the able to insult jewish ...

we thought that we get rid of that stupid ideas againest jewish but now Islam...
What's wrong with you Europe...can't you accept another relegion ...learn from America..

May the god be with you all...
Viva for All Jewish Christian and Muslim ...  

2 Feb 2006 @ 00:44 by ming : Communication
It obviously is hard to communicate, when one speaks different languages, when one looks at the world in very different ways, and when one feels justified in regarding the people who see it differently as pigs or terrorists, or whatever.

Let me point out that we're all human. And despite differences on how we think, there is no general group of people that are all bad, evil, wrong, or whichever words you apply to it. They're all made of the same stuff as you are.

As to whether Europe can accept another religion - Europe generally isn't very religious. Most European countries pride themselves of being distanced from religion, ruled by reason and democracy. You don't find government leaders who invoke God to back up their authority like in the U.S. On the contrary, you'll find most European countries to be very resistant to any attempt from religion to dictate what people should do. Because, again, they're democracies.

To invoke the word of God can be an effective way of manipulating masses of people into obeying you without argument. You set yourself up as God's chosen person or people or class of people, and then you interpret what God's saying, and you tell everybody else what to do, pretending that it is God doing it. It is the oldest crowd control trick in the book. It is a phoney, cowardly thing to do, but it works. Priests and popes and inquisitors and writers and rewriters and interpretors of holy books have done it for millennia.

I'd say God can speak for him/her/it-self, and is. Anybody can listen. Anybody can speak for it. Nothing that needs to be protected, other than weak human ideas that don't stand the light of day.  

2 Feb 2006 @ 00:56 by vibrani : ahhahaha
oh that's funny, Ming.  

2 Feb 2006 @ 01:20 by bushman : Agree
I dont need some religion, telling me whats right and wrong, I can hear the Creator just fine. Intresting comments. :}  

2 Feb 2006 @ 07:31 by Mohammad Kanaan @212.77.203.246 : Some thoughts on the subject

Kim:
I don't take things out of context. 79% felt that the government shouldn't apologize. 62% (which is still a large majority) felt that even the newspaper shouldn't apologize. We are not asking 5 million people to apologize; we are asking the government to intervene to prevent such offenses just like they would have done if the Holocaust was mentioned. An apology of the newspaper is enough for me.

I also would like to apologize for burning the Danish Flag. It is not a Muslim trait to return an offense with an offense. Those who are reacting out of anger would have done us a lot more good had they limited their reaction to peaceful protest and boycott.

Kieth Manheck:
I would rather keep my backward thinking religion than adopt your humanity saving, 21st Century, progressive thoughts of Genocide and extermination. BTW, the Nazi Party of Germany has the top spot vacant since 1945. If I were u, I would throw my resume. Only you would make your predecessor look pale and less ambitious.

Islamisdying:
Even though this is not the subject of this forum, I have to say that if you are truly a Palestinian living in Ramallah and not an Israeli posing as a Palestinian Christian, then you are alone in your own society. I have tens of Palestinian Christian friends. They all despise the Israeli occupation as much as I do. Read the news. Time and time again, Palestinian Christian leaders like Hanan Ashrawi, Azmi Beshara, the Late Edward Saeed, Clovis Maqsood has repeatedly condemned the Israeli occupation and praised the excellent relations between Christians and Muslims in the Holly Land. The people who steel the land are the Israeli settler thugs who have stolen the lands of thousands of Palestinian -Christian and Muslim- citizens. As per the Israeli government laws, those settlers are allocated 10 times the water of the land than the Palestinians. They enjoy their personal swimming pools while the Palestinians (Christians and Muslims) have to rationalize drinking water. The Israeli solution to this problem was to uproot Palestinian Olive trees so they would not need as much water.

Ming:
I want to thank you for trying to keep this forum to its original subject. I also appreciate your responsible unbiased thoughts.

Everyone on this earth adopt a set of values. Some choose pre-packaged ones like Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists,.. while others feel the need to choose freely. The important thing here is to respect everyone's right to choose his own set of beliefs and not to demonize, insult, or pre-judge a person for selecting one set of beliefs over another. I respect Europe's right to be or not be religious. I would defend your freedom to choose your beliefs as I am sure you would defend mine.  

2 Feb 2006 @ 08:51 by Infinitynexus @82.192.160.50 : This is going straight to oblivion
I stand and simply wait for the day where the last of humanity dies.. and I will smile.. And die happily knowing that its the end and there wont be any more of our idiocy  

2 Feb 2006 @ 09:23 by dane @83.91.18.2 : drawings
as a dane i think the past years discussions about muslims in dk have been very bad espcially from the right-wing parties, that´s probably why some muslims in dk felt they needed back-up for their views elsewhere. and they got what they wanted and even more so.... now they seem like they regret it, as the pm probably regrets not taking a more serious stand in this case earlier. Anyway i think it is scary that thousands of people in the middleeast look like they want to start a war because of 12 drawings. and i think that we can not give any more excuses than we did - muslims should´t expect non-muslims to follow muslims laws; 1,5 years ago a teacher at the university of cph was beaten up very badly because he read from the koran without being muslim, this is a misunderstanding of freedom. Noone should control my mind, i can say and mean what i want, unless i harm other people, and it is up to the independent legal system to judge weather i have done so. I think the pm in dk is an asshole, but i´m glad i live in a country where i can say that...  

2 Feb 2006 @ 09:54 by Ahmed Fakhroo @82.194.62.23 : Quran Teachings
To He or/ She: anyone @83.253.16.163 : most people think

Our Quran explicitly forbids us from reviling other religions or/ their gods as stated in the Al-An’am Sura or/ chapter, copied below for ease of refernce :

Al-An'am (The Cattle) [6:108]

"Wala tasubboo allatheena yadAAoona min dooni Allahi fayasubboo Allaha AAadwan bighayri AAilmin kathalika zayyanna likulli ommatin AAamalahum thumma ila rabbihim marjiAAuhum fayunabbiohum bima kanoo yaAAmaloona".

Translation is as follows:
6:108 Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did.

I just wonder whether the Danish Law allows their press either to demean the royal families of Europe or/ tribute the Hitler regime Nazi. I will be very much interested to be enlightened on the so called Europe “freedom of speech’. It is a phony baloney episode.  

2 Feb 2006 @ 10:53 by Daniel @192.171.3.126 : The originals???
Where the fuck can I find the original caricarures ??? I want to laugh, too !!!  

2 Feb 2006 @ 11:06 by Daniel @192.171.3.126 : Question
"BTW, the Nazi Party of Germany has the top spot vacant since 1945. "(quoted)
Sorry I'm from Germany and I don't know what BTW is or means ??? Can you help, Mohammad Kanaan ??? What do you know about NAZI parties in Germany ?? Still the picture around the world GERMAN = NAZI. Let's draw some caricatures about this topic! We promise not to be insulted and have a good laugh...  

2 Feb 2006 @ 11:10 by trj @212.149.219.73 : reality check
European royal families get made fun off by the press on a daily basis. Obvioulsy the european freedom of expression is not perfect (nothing in the world ever is) but it is pretty close to it.

As europeans we should also realize that muslims have or at least should have the freedom to express themselves just the same as we do. To burn a flag or boycott products. However violance and bomb threats is taking it too far.

It's absolutely absurd to expect everyone in the world to avoid talking about subjects that might be considered too sensitive by someone.  

2 Feb 2006 @ 12:21 by dane @83.91.18.2 : drawings
we have nazis in dk - they run for the elections, but they don´t really get many votes. we believe it is better to let their stupid arguments be met in the open room, instead of pushing them out into "illegal" subcultures. We also have hitz-ub-tahrir, which is forbidden in many muslim and non-muslim countries, and i think many kurds are happy that we allow their critic radiostation, although both turkey and the us want us to forbid it, what is the pm´s reaction to that? the same as to the drawings - "i can´t do anything", same when the russians wanted us to close down a conference for Chechnya. The queen, pm and others are often made fun of. The freedom of speach is not unlimited, and the interpretation of it in the west is sometimes marked by doublestandarts. But it is also under pressure many places around the world, and if these drawings should be forbidden what is the next - the ones who made them should be punished? how?

By the way if muslims care so much not harming other peoples religious feelings, then where was the outrage in the muslim world when taliban blew up 50 tall, ancient buddhastatues in afghanistan?  

2 Feb 2006 @ 14:59 by IslamIsDying @212.33.117.227 : Quran bullshit
Ahmed Fakhroo, Wtf are you saying? Non-muslims don't have to follow your bullshit rules....and there is nothing you can do about it, islam is pure bullshit, a religion based on sex and killing, how the fuck do you call this a religion??  

2 Feb 2006 @ 18:16 by Pontus Sweden @83.249.58.199 : Freedom
THIS ISSUE IS NOT ABOUT ISRAEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop crying out about all bad that happens to pooor muslims. Still the truth is that most bad to muslims is done by muslims.

THIS ISSUE IS ABOUT AT CARTOON IN A NEWSPAPER. LIKE IT OR DONT READ IT. DONT START A WAR.  

2 Feb 2006 @ 18:32 by vibrani : Here's today's news on this
GAZA CITY — Armed militants angered by a cartoon drawing of the Prophet Muhammad published in European newspapers surrounded EU offices in Gaza on Thursday and threatened to kidnap foreigners as outrage over the caricatures spread across the Islamic world.

More than 300 students demonstrated in Pakistan, chanting "Death to France!" and "Death to Denmark!" — two of the countries where newspapers published the drawings. Other protests were held in Syria and Lebanon, while officials in Afghanistan, Iran and Indonesia condemned the publication. In Paris, the daily France Soir fired its managing editor after it ran the caricatures Wednesday.

A Jordanian newspaper took the bold step of running some of the drawings, saying it wanted to show its readers how offensive the cartoons were, although its editor also said he did not want "to promote such blasphemy." In an editorial, it also urged the world's Muslims to "be reasonable."  

2 Feb 2006 @ 18:33 by vibrani : Daniel
btw stands for "by the way." Sort of like a propos.  

2 Feb 2006 @ 19:49 by Ed Knight @67.83.218.158 : 4,000 year old problems
Oooh. Ow. I've got a 2,000 year old prolem. My God makes ME wear an extremely silly hat and gets offended at the the insinuation that someone elses idea of a silly hat is so insulting or hilarious. Ooh that hat gets me so MAD!.And don't even get me started on the subject of sacred sand. That gets me angry as well. Does God truly give a rip about anybody's hat, sand,or diet? Enough allready. Go to bed, children, and apologize to your brothers for arguing about hats and sand. Christ sakes.  

2 Feb 2006 @ 20:09 by Andrius Kulikauskas @193.219.5.34 : Comparing apples with apples
Flemming, Good to hear you speak and see all the comments you've evoked! And I'm especially glad to hear from Mohammad Kanaan. I follow Christ, but I think that we in Europe should do a better job of trying to understand others' point of view. To us Mohammed is perhaps simply a man and so it's simply a caricature. But to Muslims he is a Prophet of God and he is not depicted at all. So a proper comparison might be to a caricature of Christ on the cross, perhaps with a missile peeking out from under his loin cloth. European newspapers tend not to carry such caricatures because, I think even Denmark, such a means of expression is considered off limits, not helpful, not relevant. Every culture has such sensitive areas and its easy to miss our own. I think that is a big part of the hurt for intelligent Muslims - why do Danes (arguably the most exemplary culture in the West) take their own soft spots for granted, but don't afford that same sensitivity to Muslims. I imagine it is the Muslims who want to be understood as part of Western society who feel the most betrayed. Because Western society is not big enough to be sensitive to their soft spots, nor to admit its own. And this goes on and on and on. Movements and regions (like Iran or Hamas) are condemned as terrorists without any interest in their democratic sides, whereas autocratic regimes (as in Pakistan or Egypt) are considered important allies, even when, as in the case of Pakistan, their autocracy lead to the spread of more weapons of mass production than Saddam Hussein might ever dream of. Or the World Trade Center towers are not considered as legimitate targets even when clearly they were important centers of power in the West, whereas the people who die because they happened to be hit by a cruise missile intended for terrorists shouldn't have been where they were. I think the battle of mindsets has to do with whether Islam or the West is big enough to include both or whether it is creating a rift. And the West is losing the most important people - the independent thinking Muslims - who are the key to overcoming that rift. The West ought to be sensitive to their sensitivities - as it is to its own, yet doesn't admit it. Mohammad, I invite you to join one or more of our working groups at our Minciu Sodas laboratory [link] for independent thinkers, we are trying to reach out to Islamic independent thinkers. Peace.  

2 Feb 2006 @ 21:26 by ming : Dialogue
Thank you for that, Andrius. Yes, what it takes is sensitive dialogue. And, yes, it should be important particularly to have a dialogue with Islamic independent thinkers.

It is a difficult thing to work out how to be sensitive to each other's sensitive spots.

What I personally think is useful is to go a bit deeper, to recognize what principle might be under the various beliefs or rules we live by. Like a rule against idolatry in some religion. One should be able to look slightly deeper and grasp what the point of it is. Which, I would guess, would be that one shouldn't worship the picture of something or someone, but rather deal with the real thing. Like, maybe, that Mohammed didn't want his picture to be worshipped. So, the offense would be to worship his picture and forget Allah, I suppose. Not that there's really any inherent huge problem in pictures.

But I can't write the dialogue for everybody, of course. The point is to explore together how one might communicate with mutual respect, despite any kind of negative baggage that gets in the way.  

2 Feb 2006 @ 21:54 by france-in-it-too-now @86.195.125.69 : Your laws are not our laws
Some basic points:
- depicting the prophet, and other such prohibitions apply to Muslims. In the name of what should it apply to non-muslims? If buddhist respect cows, should we all refrain from eating beef?
- France has been very supportive of muslims, especially palestinians. The reactions I have witnessed in Cisjordania against Christian democraties are shocking. Palestine is very isolated now that it has elected Hamas. Treating its very few last "allies" or at least defenders like shit is so naive, it is touching.
- We opposed war in Iraq for reasons that can be debated . Mostly it was considered that you don't bring freedom through war. We opposed countries like Danemark on that occasion. Today, my free mind makes me support fully Danemark. We must be able to use caricature and satire in any case, and not comply to rules that do not apply to us.
- All freeman not enslaved into mad thinking has a duty to refuse to apologize for using his right of speech, expression, press, etc.
Here is the link to the drawings: please circulate
[link]  

2 Feb 2006 @ 21:58 by france-in-it-too @86.195.125.69 : or is it hinduists?
You will have corrected if wrong, lol  

2 Feb 2006 @ 22:21 by AnIranianWoman @164.57.112.10 : Thank You Andrius
It is nice to hear reasonable arguments from reasonable people no matter what their religious inclinations are. Thank you for trying to look at both sides of the issue. I am originally from Iran although I have not lived there for the past 21 years. I along with most Iranians would welcome establishment of democracy in Iran, although we would like it to be of the home-grown kind without any (and I mean any) involvement of other countries and powers. In our collective memory each time a foreign power sat foot in Iran with, it resulted in utter disaster for the general Iranian population and Iran’s sovereignty was diminished. (Removal of the democratic Mossadegh’s government by the aid of the CIA’s coup in 1953) Most Iranians would like to have nuclear technology for peaceful purposes as the oil will run out in 20 or so years. If this aim (Nuclear power plant) is illegal, please somebody make it illegal in the United Nations charter so that Iran would stop that activity. Back to the issue of running cartoons of the Messenger, although I find it offensive, it makes me sad instead of angry. First of all, I don't get angry because I believe that what a person does will return to them. For example, if I choose profanity to hurt anyone at all, not to mention anyone's sacred people or belief, I have hurt my own soul more than causing pain to the intended target. God, in my opinion, is simply beyond being hurt by comments or actions of people. What gets hurt is the soul of the individual aiming to hurt God. By the same token, if one believes in the exalted position of a person such as the Messenger, then there is no amount of insult that can hurt the Messenger. So I am not angry. Instead, I am sad that people choose to use languages other than respectful towards those whom they do not understand or don't care to understand just because they seem to be too different from them. In my opinion it simply hurts them more. It doesn’t matter if a Moslem or a non-Moslem is using such tactics. Insult, no matter who is issuer is wrong. Also, Insult is not something defined by the issuer of the insult. If I said that, “calling me by a particular name is an insult to me, please don’t use that reference to call me”, I would expect a reasonable person would abide by it. No matter what my reasons are, I should be allowed a simple courtesy that is requested. I may be crazy to think that the particular name is an insult to me, but I do and I have made my condition known in advance. If that courtesy is not granted to me, I have the right to cut relations with the issuer of the insult as my request was not met in kind. You may say that you have the right to insult me. To which, my response would be that you are simply acting rude and beyond the norm of a civilized person. Similarly, this is an issue with a general sensitivity of a religion. It has been known, that depiction of the Messenger is insulting to Moslems. Now, what would be the reason to invoke such an insult other than to be rude? This is not an issue of freedom of speech. This is an issue of lack of consideration.  

2 Feb 2006 @ 22:29 by Isac @82.214.0.220 : W/e
I will probably never even check this thread again.


Who really wants to support fundamentalists freedom of speech? Will the idiots who's offended bomb denmark? Doesn't that prove they were right?  

3 Feb 2006 @ 04:57 by Alex @65.93.156.23 : liberty of expression
fuck Mohamed... I have the right to say what I want and I assume.

F-U-C-K M-O-H-A-M-E-D

Why going against free speech? nobody will touch my right. I will fight for it!  

3 Feb 2006 @ 07:36 by BLACKBOY @155.232.250.35 : let he who is without sin cast the first
Let this GO already.
A Muslim surrenders/submits to the will of Allah, not a Dane. The Danish have the right to offend whoever the Danish want without their government apologising.
I did not hear the muslim world apologising for 9/11 or the london bombings or the bombings in innocent Kenya.
I do not hear the muslim world apologising for the continued enslavement of black people in SUDAN.
boycottt the DAnish products as muslims but no one dies from your "prophet" being drawn so please dont go around assualting people.

To the Danish people bring all you products to South Africa, We are for freedom of speech.

if I had a cent for everytime the people of muhamed spoke against and offended christianity bill gates would have nothing on me
Maybe its because in states that have a majority of christians, Freedom of speech is Standard... makes you think dont it?  

3 Feb 2006 @ 08:17 by A Norwegian @80.111.172.228 : Double standard
Mohammad Kanaan and others have said there is a double standard in the west with regards to freedom of speech. First let me say that freedom of speech does not mean that you have to express all sorts of views. If you are a newspaper editor you don't have to print articles claiming that the holocaust is a lie if you don't want to. The same goes for cartoons of Prophet Mohammed, you are not obligated to print them. All but a few European newspapers have not.

Ridiculing Christ and the Christian God is a frequent occurrence in our newspapers, tv shows and movies (Monty Python should be a well known example). The prophet Mohammed has been spared until now.

Our media discuss controversial issues including neo nazis, blasphemy, racism, holocaust denunciation (Yes its true!) David Irwing has been on several tv shows and written about in numerous articles. Although Irwing has few supporters he has been allowed to make his argument, but it has not been made uncontested. To tell the truth our media treat Islam with more respect than they do Christianity.

Let me also point out that Israeli groups and government frequently criticize our media for the way they report about the Palestinian conflict. I have registered several claims of anti-semitism and no apologies.

Today the editor of Jylland posten writes that he would not have printed the cartoons had he known the outcome, and that they did not mean to offend Muslims. The Danish PM has also denounced the cartoons on the Al Arabia channel.

It is your right to boycott Danish products, but it seems like misplaced anger.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 09:14 by DRC @72.196.1.159 : Where the fuck are these cartoons?
I can't find these cartoons! This is stupid to think that someone gets offended by a cartoon. I am a christian, I used to be a catholic, and I don't find catholic cartoons offensive. Maybe someone should publish a cartoon of mohamed fucking buddha? That could be funny. After 9/11 I think toilet paper printed with the verses of the Koran could be a top seller. I would definitely buy it.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 10:31 by Faidros @217.208.25.51 : Boycott
As a nonreligous westerner I belive boycott to be a civiliced and valid way to apply political pressure. I do it all the time my self. For several years I didnt buy French wines becourse the French tested neuclear arms in the passific. I dont buy Israeli goods for several reasons I dont want to go in to here out of respect of the subject of this thread and I didnt buy South African goods before Mandela.

So if muslimes dont like what the danish do they are in their full right to show that by refusing to buy thier stuff. For what ever reason - fair or not!

What is worying in the crisis following the tracks of the Mohammed pictures is the semingly bottomless stupidity we see from the extreme corners of the ideological map.

One newspaper publishes some pictures and suddenly all scandinavians are valid targes for anyone that wants a free ticket to the muslim heaven.

Just as when handfull of extremists flew planes in to buildings hole countries and regions where held responsible.

The idea seems to be - if you dont know where to find the responsible for an act - kill everyone that wheres similar a head dress, prays to the same god or lives in the same region or country.

I wish those pictures never would have been published. Not that I question the newspapers right to do so. My consern is that this development will further strengthen those extremists. Both the muslim extremeists and extreme rightwing and rasist organisations.

The muslim organisations will gather followers by pointing out that the west dont respect any muslimes and the skinheads and their likes will point out that muslimes is behaving just as brute and uncivilised as they always claimed they are. And that development is just to sad for all us that hope for a peacefull coexistens of all humanity.

I cant help wondering how this thing has developed. I dont think "Jyllands-posten" has to many readers on the Gaza strip or in Saudi Arabia. Obviusly someone brought the muslim world to the attention of the pictures.

My questions to those are:
-Are you acheving your goals?
-Is the name of the Mohammed held in higher respect around the world after this?
-Have your actions resulted in fewer respectless cartoons with the Mohammed?
-Do you feel that the muslim community is more widely accepted and respected in Denmark after this?

 

3 Feb 2006 @ 11:04 by J.Smith @80.100.168.252 : Go Denmark !!
Denmark should not apologised ! C'mon it's a cartoon ... I saw it it made sense, why should the Arab countries boycott all Danish products due to just a cartoon ? That's just STUPID ! Did all danish people draw these cartoons ? Or just an individual ? I think all press should publish more of these cartoons to support freedom of speech. The Arab countries are just finding excuses for attention. They are just dying to create a Jihad war no matter what is being said !!! Next time they'll burn other flags just because EU countries mention "Islam" .  

3 Feb 2006 @ 11:51 by Alex @80.178.128.210 : SINCE WHEN SOME DIRTY ARABS
Will tell us what to draw?

F*ck them!
Their responce with riots just underlined that these pics are correct!
Arabs are untolerant of others, but very offended when it comes to them.
We must FIND some OTHER source OF ENERGY

OTHER than OIL.

ARABS WERE NOTHING TILL WE STARTED DWELLING OIL IN THEIR PLACES.

SO WE MUST FIND OTHER SOURCE OF ENERGY

AND LET THEM eat THEIR own OIL - WE wount buy IT.
 

3 Feb 2006 @ 13:20 by IslamIsDying @212.33.117.232 : To Alex
Dude plz dont talk about ALL arabs, there at least 30 million arabs that are christian, that believe in the same things that you do, and aren't retarted like muslims.
I can see some of are ignoring my earlier comments, i dunno why.....it basicly stated the truth, islam is the shit of humanity, PERIOD.
Btw mohamed kanaan, fatima, fahad, haven't heard from you in a while, please, share with us ur bullshit rules  

3 Feb 2006 @ 13:51 by A PROUD DANE @80.164.65.4 : Insane
hey i´m a Dane and proud of it. this is madness we got the right here to think and say what we want, ok muslims got offended by the drawing to bad for them, some Christians probaly get offended when they make a similar drawing of Jesus too.
I got muslim friends in Denmark to they dun like the drawings that is there right i respect that. Those drawings isn´t the way Danes see muslims but hearing Danis in the middle east have been subjects of violence, and Denmark getting treaths about bombings, CAURSE OF SOME DRAWINGS, really make one think  

3 Feb 2006 @ 14:11 by Faidros @217.208.25.51 : Dear IslamDying
Maybe the lack of respons on your "pig-statement" is to do the fact that it was not worth commenting.

I just want to tell you this. In the eyes of most of the people in Europe that dislikes muslims the fact that you call your self a christian does not make much of a difference.

As most people with extreme ideas, such as your self, european muslimhaters tends to simplify and generalise. If you ask them most will say a muslim is an arab. And since all arabs are terrorists they are all the "shit of humanity" as you put it.

I live in Sweden. The word the rasists use here is "svartskalle" (ie. "blackhead"). If you came here the people reasoning like you do about muslims would also treat you as a "blackhead". You being a christian would not mather at all. Do you think that anyone managed to escape the gas just becourse they shouted "I belive in Jesus!"?

So remember that by spreading all your intollerant bullsh*t you are pouring gasoline on a fire that are also meant for you.

Ive seen people like you before and to me you are both funny and tragical. But few things surprices me any more. Hell, here in Sweden one of the best known criminals is a black guy that claims he is a nazi. :P  

3 Feb 2006 @ 14:57 by HUSSEIN @62.135.34.159 : THANKS
THANK U ALL FOR SAYING ALL THIS BAD WORDS ABOUT MUSLIMS & ABOUT PROPHET MOHAMED AND THANK U ALEX FOR GIVING US AN EXAMPLE ABOUT WHO IS REALLY FULL OF HATE TO THE OTHERS .. FIRST WE DIDN'T DO ANY BAD THING TO ANYONE AND ABOUT 9/11
I WANT SOMEONE GIVE ME AN MATERIAL PROVE THAT MUSLIMS WAS BEHIND IT, ABOUT WHO BRINGS THE WAR TO THIS WORLD CAN SOMEONE TELL ME WHO IS KILLING OTHER PEOPLE NOW LET ME THINK ..OOH WHAT DOES ALL THIS AMERICAN AND EUROPEAN TROOPS DOING IN IRAQ AREN'T THEY KILLING PEOPLE THEY KILLED IN THIS FEW YEARS MORE THAN SADDAM KILLED , WHO KILLING PEOPLE IN AFGHANISTAN ,AND IN PALESTINE ANSWER THOSE QUESTION AND U ALL WILL KNOW WHO IS REALLY DESTROYING THIS PLANET MR BUSH AND TONEY PLAIR LIED TO THE WHOLE WORLD ABOUT IRAQ AND HOW U DEALED WITH IT U REELECTION BOTH OF THEM. I WILL TELL U SOMTHING U DN'T KNOW MUSLIMS ARE VERY AFRAID TO DO ANYTHING BAD TO CHRISTIANS OR JEWS BECAUSE THE PROPHET U ARE TEELING LIES ABOUT HIM TELL US THAT IF MUSLIM DID ANY THING BAD TO ANY OF U HE WILL ANGERY FROM HIM UNTIL THE JUDGEMENT DAY AND AS WE BELIEVE IN OUR ISLAM OUR PROPHET HAS THE KEY OF PARADISE SO CAN U SEE HOW IT'S VERY RISKY TO HURT ANYONE OF U, DID U EVER HEARD A MUSLIM SAID AND BAD THINGS ABOUT THE CHRIST OR LADY MIRIAM OR MOSIES NO U DOESN'T BECAUSE WE BELIEVE IN THEM ALSO AND THE LADY MIRIAM IS THE BEST LADY IN HEAVEN WE BELIEVE IN THAT, ABOUT WHATS HAPPENING IN PALASTINE CAN U ANSWER ME ALEX WHAT WILL U DO IF SOMEONE COME TO UR HOUSE KILLED UR SONS AND RAPED UR DAUGHTERS AND UR WIFE AND PUT U IN THE GARAGE PREVENTING U FROM UR LIFE AND AFTER ALL OF THAT U ALEX ASKING HIM FOR PEACE AND THE STRANGE THING THAT HE REFUSED NOW IF U TRY TO KILL HIM AFTER ALL THAT WILL U BE A TERRORIST ?? I WANT ALL OF U TO ANSWER ME ?? FINALLY WE REALLY LOVE U AND WE REALLY WANT PEACE TO THE WHOLE WORLD WHICH I HOPE AND BELIEVE IT WILL COME SOME DAY, BY THE WAY I'M MUSLIM AND I LOVE U ALL AND I'LL NEVER HATE U AND I WILL NOT HATE WHAT EVER U DO, THAT I WANT IN THE JUDGEMENT DAY WHEN WE ALL MEET THE CHRIST AND LADY MARIAM AND MOSSES (PEACE BE ON THEM ALL) I DN'T WANT TO FEEL SHY THAT I HATE ANYONE OF THEY FOLLOWERS. PEACE BE ON MOHAMED AND ALL THE MESSNGERS AND PROPHETS... THANKS FOR ALL OF U AGAINE.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 15:07 by rich_s @195.160.253.3 : My take
The original context of these cartoons is that artists are frightened of criticising Islam because of the potential actions of violent extremists. The reaction to the publication of the cartoons just proves the original point - that fundamentalists are intolerent and hold world-views that are incompatible with Western ideas such as free speech.

The cartoons may well offend, because they are blasphemous by Islamic standards. The subject matter of some of them is an attack on the religion and its ideas. That's offensive? Well, tough, because in Europe religion is fair game. We've had the enlightenment, and separated church and state, and now most of us believe in "science" - if your theory doesn't stand up to rational scrutiny then down it falls.

Religious schools of thought seem to think that they should be protected from this scrutiny, and that people are allowed to believe what they like, no matter what irrational nonsense it is. For the sake of peaceful living, a compromise is neccessary, so Western countries have laws allowing "freedom to practise religion" - laws of tolerance. I'm fine and happy with that as long as you don't wave your nonsense in my face. That's not keeping your end of the bargain.

Don't make me choose between liberties and your make-belief deity. Muslims who haven't already need to learn to take silly cartoons and such like on the chin, like most Christians have learnt, otherwise there cannot be harmony. For example, don't insist that non-muslims must follow Islamic law and never depict Muhammed, because in reality all you are doing is forcing us to stand up and say "Look, we think your beliefs are bullsh*t"  

3 Feb 2006 @ 15:38 by vibrani : Boycotting is good
so let's boycot all products coming from Muslim nations until the Muslims get a sense of humor, lighten up, and stop trying to force the rest of the world to their belief system. Respect works both ways.

Seriously, I don't think papers need to publish everything just because it's a free press. Some things are offensive and some things are outright lies. It takes a smart publisher to know where to draw the line. The violent Muslim response, however, might give people another reason to consider those offensive cartoons to be factual.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 15:45 by ming : Outcomes
Faidros, wise words:

>I cant help wondering how this thing has developed. I dont think
>"Jyllands-posten" has to many readers on the Gaza strip or in Saudi Arabia.
>Obviusly someone brought the muslim world to the attention of the pictures.
>
>My questions to those are:
>-Are you acheving your goals?
>-Is the name of the Mohammed held in higher respect around the world after this?
>-Have your actions resulted in fewer respectless cartoons with the Mohammed?
>-Do you feel that the muslim community is more widely accepted and respected in Denmark after this?

Obviously anything but has happened. More people have a reason to be angry at Islam and at Muslims. Fewer people will respect Islam. It will be harder for moderate Muslims to be taken seriously. Many people have now become inspired to actually make disrespectful pictures of Mohammed. You'll see lots more pictures of Mohammed around now. All not because of those few cartoons in Jyllandsposten, but because of the reaction. So, yes, was that worth it?  

3 Feb 2006 @ 16:22 by Jesper @86.52.46.251 : The price for Democracy!
I'm so fu..ing tired of rabiate muslims!

99.9% of all the idiots that are rioting in the M.East haven't even seen the damned cartoons, and in wich context they were publiched in the first place. Yet they don't hessitate to boycot an entire country, burning flags and issue death warrenth over all danes a cross the world.
These people are asking for our respect! Well in my mind, respect goes both ways. And if all export to muslim-countries is the price for free speech and democracy, that's just the price we have to pay. Because it will be over my dead body before these rabiate mulslims will take control over my life.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 16:32 by Democratic Patriot @86.52.46.251 : SUPPORT DENMARK
COME ON EVERYBODY. DON'T LET THE MUSLIMS WIN THIS BATTLE.

- BUY DANISH!!!  

3 Feb 2006 @ 16:45 by keith @62.253.128.12 : cartoons
i was just watching sky news and the muslim demonstrators and noticed thier banners well most of them depict that europe was the scurge of the earth and our time will come when we are eliminated. Q for you if you dont like it here then i suggest you go back to were you origionate from and let us get on with our christian beliefs we dont ram it down your throats,we have no wish to follow what you belive in i say TAKE IT BACK HOME TO YOUR OWN COUNTRYS.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 16:46 by keith @62.253.128.12 : cartoons
oh sorry forgot to add buy more bacon  

3 Feb 2006 @ 16:59 by IslamIsDying @212.33.117.231 : TO FAIDROS
Look son, you know NOTHING about what muslims really are, I live with 100,000 muslims in my city, it's like living in hell, those "things" are simply animals with a religion, there as ugly as humans can get.

Btw i lived in the U.S for 2 years, when people knew i was a christian coming from the holy land they litterlay warshipped me, they loved me. So next time don't say that noone gives a shit if i'm christian or muslim, sure i'm arab but i'm christian....your the ONly one that doesn't think there is a difference. Let's prove this, can u guys tell me if a christian arab attacked by muslim pricks every day is the same as those arab muslim dicks?  

3 Feb 2006 @ 17:17 by Alf @81.131.106.219 : STONE AGES
Speaking as a British Christian I really cant understand all the fuss,I just see a lot of easily excited,easily led,none to clever,behind the times,non progressive,frustrated,hell raisers.What is this world coming to if you cant take the piss out of a fictional character..Bless em  

3 Feb 2006 @ 17:29 by Kafir @62.45.4.168 : Religion
All religion is, in fact a bad thing. Religion is made by people. Some religions were originally not intended as one; eg. Buddhism and Christianity. The problem with Islam however, is that it was always intended as a cruel religion, claiming in its own Holy Book that it's the one true religion, promoting intolerance and even violence. Thankfully, many muslims will say that what I just said is untrue. Luckily for all of us, they either haven't read their book, or they interpret it differently.

The way I see it, it's just a matter of time however, before the majority will have read those nice passages in the book, God only knows what we will do then!

To conclude: BAN RELIGION.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 17:37 by Blueblood @70.184.92.11 : Screw Em
They are all a bunch of gun toting power hungry not to mention very smelly and unkempt followers of a physcotic religion that lost it's roots years ago. If your going to blow people up for their beliefs then you shouldnt get so mad over a cartoon depicting your monkey like mohammed.I have an idea instead of having your female virgins committing suicide bombings send them here to the U.S. we need a little variety in our Strip clubs. I support you Denmark and I am sure many Americans laughed their asses off when they heard how the muslims reacted to a simple drawing.Hate to see what would happen if Disney put out a cartoon about them HAHA. NO APOLOGIES NEEDED do they apologize when they kill people in the name of religion (which by the way is the sign that these people are still living in the time of witch hunts)Anyhow give'em hell they deserve it. G.B.M.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 17:44 by IslamIsDying @212.33.117.227 : rofl
Rofl BlueBlood just owned u muslims pricks, love too know what you have to say now  

3 Feb 2006 @ 17:50 by yehuda @80.255.47.251 : liars!
your grandfathers came to our countries robbed us of our dignity and resources to build your civilized countries and now you donot want us "animals" to come to those countries.we will continue to come and when we do we spread our religion Islam.you can call us terrorists but we learned from the best your grand fathers the colonialists,the missionaries.and yet in iraq,afghanistan,palestine,and in a few months iran.you continue to do the same.and yet you dare to call us terrorists?you talk of 9/11 yet you donot know who really did that because you jewish media lies to you!freedom of speech you say....try insulting the jews even in democratic denmark and see what appens?you're all liars and you hate us because we are powerful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

3 Feb 2006 @ 17:55 by marek @80.255.47.251 : killings
Blue blood!does the us apologise for killing in the name of freedom?or is george bush killing those muslims in iraq for the sake of oil?or is it for the sake of christianity in disguise?so u expect muslims to sit and wait for their deaths while the us and his patheitc allies finish them off?its funny coz i thought that islam would really be over and done with by now but actually the opposite is happening...i wonder y?maybe muslims are doing mass brainwashing?lol!  

3 Feb 2006 @ 17:55 by Blueblood @70.184.92.11 : Insane
You must be brainwashed to think that the muslims could ever take over. Oh wait that's right if you dont act like a muslim they will cut your head off sorry yehuda now I understand why you muslims are so strong in your belief I wouldnt want to lose my head either. By the way Im still waiting for an answer about you muslims sending us your virgins.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 17:58 by Amir K. @202.156.6.68 : IN-BORN HATRED
All these reactions from Western Press is not about Freedom of speech, it is about some fundamental, their in-born hatredness for Islam, Muslims or Arabs, which could be partly due to the past history or their ignorance.
Actually, they are instigating the muslims to do more harm. What grave stupity.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 18:16 by Sickandtired @67.169.178.29 : Ignorant and intolerant
They demand others adhere to their rules and beliefs? Otherwise it is always the same...kill the Infidels.. Well this Infidel is tired of the bullshit. You want to meet your maker? I think a line is forming to help you with the introduction.

A cartoon... lighten up assholes.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 18:24 by pelin @85.103.50.210 : It s a shame
noone can attack our religion. some silly people who doesnt know Islam speak so silly. every day Muslims, especially in Iraq, die for some countrys' benefits. of course Muslims will defend themselves too. but we only want to respect for all religious not only Islam.
noone can draw caricatures of our Prophet Muhammad ..  

3 Feb 2006 @ 18:27 by bushman : Hmm
I'm thinking that maybe it's a better thing to just let the barbarians of all religions, just kill each other off, and this will make it a better world for us more intellegent, non-barbarians. Why would any God, allow humans to explore other planets, when they act like they do now? Just like gang violents, I say the same, let them kill each other and be done with it, the smartest people will just get out of the way, and wait. I believe the world is self cleansing. We must bid farewell to all the barbarians and bullies, of all religions. And people wonder why the NWO wants to cull 90% of the worlds population, it's because that 90%, are barbarians. If you get pissed off, to the point of murder and destruction, over what someone says about your God, then my friend, your an ignorant barbarian, that will never see the day mankind becomes a type 1 civilization, you will be left out in the cold, with your empty gun, and blown out flip-flops.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 18:28 by keith @62.253.128.12 : asif
if islam is non violeant as in belief then why do we see them doing what they are doing over the world acting like spoilt brats burning national flags over a cartoon drawn months ago??  

3 Feb 2006 @ 18:34 by alf @81.131.106.219 : Koran
I have read comments about how the Koran misleads people and offers teachings that are full of corrupt double meanings.But people.....I can assure you that I keep a copy of the Koran in my toilet,and let me just say that nothing else comes close to wiping my ass as smoothly or as effectivly as one page of silky smooth bullshit mohammed grade A .
Get a F*****g grip...Its a cartoon
Alfy  

3 Feb 2006 @ 18:38 by keith @62.253.128.12 : feel sorry for them
i feel sorry for blondes irishmen jews and black people as when a joke is said of them or a cartoon depicting them they dont go mad and set fire to an ephogy of the offending party do they?
buy more lurpak  

3 Feb 2006 @ 18:45 by keith @62.253.128.12 : ahhhh
DENMARK 1 ISLAM 0 in the polls  

3 Feb 2006 @ 18:54 by James @24.55.21.150 : Apples and Oranges
There's a fundamental problem with comparing a cartoon satire of the Jewish Community and that of Mohammed. One is a person the other is a deity that is perfectly capable of dealing with her problems if she actually exists. There are no gods. The minute you backwards dirt-scrounging idiots realize that, the better the rest of us who don't let antiquated fairy tales run our lives. (That goes to all fundies on both sides of this idiotic discussion.)  

3 Feb 2006 @ 19:00 by Blueblood @70.184.92.11 : Virgins
Still waiting for an answer about your virgin woman you dirt bathing sand monkies.Obviously your a religion of homo's if your willing to let untapped ass like that go to waste  

3 Feb 2006 @ 19:03 by keith @62.253.128.12 : mohammed
there is only one gr8 mohammed i can remember and his surname is ALI  

3 Feb 2006 @ 19:05 by Blueblood @70.184.92.11 : The great one indeed
float like a butterfly sting like a bee,but dont act insane like the muslims we see  

3 Feb 2006 @ 19:07 by keith @62.253.128.12 : flutterby
nice one blood......  

3 Feb 2006 @ 19:11 by alf @81.131.106.219 : a prophet
I,m trying to make a prophet here so have a look at this site
WWW.STEELPLEASURES.CO.UK  

3 Feb 2006 @ 19:11 by James @24.55.21.150 : High School
You know...on further reflection this whole thing in on the level of some dorky girl getting caught passing a nasty note about someone in school.
"Mr. Johnson, she won't apologize, she drew me with a stupid hat"

Honestly girls, grow up.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 19:20 by keith @62.253.128.12 : head
who died and made you the prophet j?  

3 Feb 2006 @ 19:47 by NaT @207.180.176.165 : Tolerating the Intolerant
Its quite pathetic that it has come to this... Europe with its prided civility catering to barbarians.
Tolerance is no longer tolerance it is anow COWARDICE

Why dont Europeans DEMAND apology for all the ills that have been brought to Europe and its citrizens world wide by simply insane inhumane satanism of thiese religious fanatics.

CAll it what it is INSANITY and cowardice, when you cater to gun wielding alah akbar murdering hordes of nomads. The more freedom and respect you give these barbarians the less you will enjoy. Appeasing UN and oil rich countries full of hatefull radicals will get you just what we are beginning to face. Empowerment of islamofascism.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 19:54 by KEITH @62.253.128.12 : i agree
you go nat i have seen the videos of the unfortunate victims of the spoils of ali akbar and it's not pretty these people get away with murder as no one is there to control as in a democracy as we live in a, line flat but not always truthful society, but when you call the athourities they will try to help and not behead the next western guy they see  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:02 by keith @62.253.128.12 : hang on nat
gont you realise they can't apologise they dont know the neaning of the word!!!!  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:06 by vibrani : in-born hatred
The comment by Amir K. is so bizarre - did you grow up in the U.S. and have our education? No where, no how did we ever learn about Muslims as being bad people when I was growing up. I'm in my mid-50s and today's education doesn't teach prejudice against Muslims, either. Unlike what Muslims learn in their madrases. We learned history, not biases. But I would venture that after 9/11, young children might have their own ideas and begin delving deeper into Muslim history, and learn about Saudi Arabia and Wahhabism, for instance, which is (as Muslim Imam Sheikh Palazzi says), "a totalitarian cult that stands for terror, massacre of civilians and permanent war against Jews, Christians and non-Wahhabi Muslims." The facts are there about how Muslims mistreated Jews in their countries, people who contributed greatly to their societies but because they were Jewish, they were kicked out, had their properties stolen, murdered.
First number is from the year 1948 of Jews in these countries, the second number of Jews living there from 2000:
Algeria 140,000, Less than 100
Egypt 75,000, 200
Iran 100,000, 12,000 to 40,000
Iraq 150,000, 100
Lebanon 20,000, 100
Libya 38,000, 0
Morocco 265,000, 5,800
Syria 30,000, 200
Tunisia 105,000, 1,500
Yemen 55,000, 200

Not hard to see a pattern. Now they're trying to make people believe their twisted history that there were never any Jews in ancient Israel hahahaha fools.

Now with the Muslims going hogwild over these cartoons, the world is just seeing more of who they really are, the Muslims they didn't really want to believe existed. Because in the past it was more like oh, they just hate the Jews not us...and they didn't want to read and learn that it's anyone who is not a Muslim that they don't accept as being human.

Spain has another lovely history of brutal Muslim invasions.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:09 by eye @207.180.176.165 : PISS BE UPON YOU
"Whoever defames our prophet should be executed," said Ismail Hassan, 37, a tailor who marched through the pouring rain along with hundreds of others in the West Bank city of Ramallah.

"Bin Laden our beloved, Denmark must be blown up," protesters in Ramallah chanted.

In mosques throughout Palestinian cities, clerics condemned the cartoons. An imam at the Omari Mosque in Gaza City told 9,000 worshippers that those behind the drawings should have their heads cut off.

"If they want a war of religions, we are ready," Hassan Sharaf, an imam in Nablus, said in his sermon.

About 10,000 demonstrators, including gunmen from the Islamic militant group Hamas firing in the air, marched through Gaza City to the Palestinian legislature, where they climbed on the roof, waving green Hamas banners.

"We are ready to redeem you with our souls and our blood our beloved prophet," they chanted. "Down, Down Denmark."

Thousands of protesters in the center of Nablus burned at least 10 Danish flags. In Jenin, about 1,500 people demonstrated, burning Danish dairy products. Hundreds protested in Jericho, and protests were held in towns throughout Gaza.

Fearing an outbreak of violence, Israel barred all Palestinians under age 45 from praying at Jerusalem's Al Aqsa Mosque compound, Islam's third holiest site.

Nevertheless, about 100 men chanting Islamic slogans and carrying a green Hamas flag demonstrated outside Jerusalem's Old City on Friday afternoon. The crowd scattered when police on horseback arrived, and some of the protesters threw rocks. Police broke up a second demonstration at Damascus Gate with tear gas and stun grenades.

In Iraq, the country's top Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, decried the drawings but did not call for protests.

"We strongly denounce and condemn this horrific action," he said in a statement posted on his Web site and dated Tuesday.

"Hands that reach Islam must be broken," chanted a group of extremists outside the Merkez Mosque in Istanbul.


-------------------------------------------

On a personal note i think its time to nuke a whole lotta imbecils!  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:16 by keith @62.253.128.12 : all
i think its time these ppl were stopped from running other ppl out of were they live as they see it as a threat and all live together with their own beliefs and practice it as life goes on day to day. its not as if i go to a fellow workers house and say i dont like what you did today and killed his cat is it?  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:20 by keith @62.253.128.12 : ah
but which muslim bought the bacon to burn?  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:27 by LOL @207.180.176.165 : LMAO
They are boycotting danish dairy products LMAO!!
The only commodity palestinians had since PLO times is lots and lots of suicide bombers, lots and lots of suicide bombers posing for european news cameras, and lots of the same extorting money from EU and UN and US to fight 'evil' Israel.


Bless Israels tolerance for putting up with this BS for so long, i think now Europe is awakening to the 'struggle' of Islam around the world.


you gotta love the irony of these twisted eggheads, well hope they enjoy eating bullets  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:31 by vibrani : That's right
wake up, world.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:34 by IslamIsDying @212.33.117.227 : Islam? TRY ISLAME
Eye, i just want you, and everyone else to know, that in the west bank only the muslims are angry, us chrisitnas are happy as hell, they are jumping around like idiots rofl.

Islam is a VERy, VERYYY retarted religion, Their fucked prophet fucked 2 women A NIGHT, and yet HE DARES to make muslim women stay virgins their whole lives, not to mention the ugly hijab. It's a religion based on SEX and hate (not to mention their UGLY AS HELL !!! Trust me i live with these pigs)
Jesus Said that no other prophets will come after him, and if one does come, he is fake.....PERIOD. Mohamed ( PISS be upon him ) is FAKE , LIVE WITH IT YOU UGLY BASTARDS.

Christianes like me in the middle east are living a really hard life, they have to deal with these shits everyday.
Btw i just wanna know do u guys consider christians here the- same as muslims? Cuz im christian and i feel like you christian countries have our backs, or at least think of us in a better way than muslims don't you? :S  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:47 by vibrani : There is a difference
and Arab Christians have been through hell living with the Muslims in the Middle East. Maybe the Christians need to take a new stand now? I know the Muslims came into your churches and used people as shields, they stole from the churches, took over Christian homes, killed people for being Christians - and that includes other countries, like what they did to Christians in Lebanon is barbaric.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:49 by bushman : Hmm
I think the christian God/prophet said, turn the other cheek, love thy enemies, and something like, revenge is thyn. But I have to say some chistians are not any different than muslims. They don't give thier god oppertunity to have his fun and get revenge. It's Gods job to get due revenge, not the humans that worship him/her.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:54 by vibrani : I wasn't talking about revenge
Bushman, just in case you were referring to my comments. I don't believe in a vengeful, punishing God. Those are human attributes that create karma.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:55 by keith @62.253.128.12 : god
god will give and taketh away as he sees fit. his way is not an instant one but those who are important to him ie the good  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:56 by vibrani : LOL
and using your line of thinking, the Muslims should be blessed because they think they're good.

How could God not love every one of its own creations?!  

3 Feb 2006 @ 20:59 by keith @62.253.128.12 : god
he can he takes the good not, those who harm the rest of us as in islam  

3 Feb 2006 @ 21:01 by vibrani : And so
you probably also believe that God allows millions of people to die in genocide, or a catastrophic accident; or on the other end win an Oscar or Grammy award, or get a football touchdown because they're favorites? I don't think so. That is a person's need to feel special, the ego and fear speaking; not what really is.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 21:01 by bushman : Nope
, was commenting to "islamisdying" his words seek and show a vengful heart, to me. :}  

3 Feb 2006 @ 21:02 by vibrani : Okay, Bushman
thanks for the clarification.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 21:06 by bushman : Accually keith,
According to Revolations, God in the end, judges us by our good works, and dosnt even take the bad works into account. Although, I cant really speak for god, thats how I read it, and understood it.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 21:07 by keith @62.253.128.12 : anon
no i dont genocide as is the way these ppl think is there way of life and to kill amounts of ppl untold, in a ravage of swift killing and start wars belief's are misconstroud and why they listen to,but the difference is the islam way of life is, dont quote me wrong a good one for their beliefs but we do not have to go that way and we do notneed them to instruct us so  

3 Feb 2006 @ 21:22 by vibrani : Exactly
we have never told Muslims not to believe in their God, so why can't they accept that not everyone has the same belief and it's okay? The only reason is that they need to feel superior and they want to control everyone. That goes for any extremist religion who thinks they're the special ones. People are so insecure and lazy - why don't they try understanding God on their own, without the stuff written in a book?  

3 Feb 2006 @ 21:45 by United @70.51.142.4 : Lets help
Who knows what Danish goods can be purchased in Canada? (Except of Tuborg beer :-)  

3 Feb 2006 @ 22:43 by jensen @82.150.88.121 : ehhHHHHH
i couldn't care less, danish export to those countries is estimated 1 % of the total export. and then if we stopped our aid and other help it might be even.

but one thing i do not understand is that, how can a "civilized world" and im talking about muslims, expect us to take them serious when all they can do is protest with signs about them wanting to behead the people behind the cartoons
and people wear'in signs with text like "europe remember the 9/11" "europe you will learn the lesson". wtF ? muslims wake up its the year 2006

i do really hope that all this will end in a peaceful way. because then i dont have dust of the viking gear.

yes im aware that the muslim people reading this properly aint the same as the ones standing in some desert with a sign and burning the danish flag.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 22:59 by Richard @24.71.50.68 : exposing i SLAM
The uncivilised response we see to these cartoons comes as no surprise to me. i SLAM does not want to be exposed,as these cartoons truthfully depict.Whoever shines the light on the life of the false prophet will get slammed.The koran and it's gospel books such as the hadith are rife with terrorism,pedophelia,rape and murder.Mohamedslife is the antithesis of Christs  

3 Feb 2006 @ 23:23 by richard @24.71.50.68 : exposing i SLAM
If mohameds life was as noble as they would have us believe, why all the fear and intimidation.islam rose to its stature through terror and birthright.A person born in a muslim family, and wants to change his religoun is to be put to death according to their holy books.The whloe concept of i SLAM smells of Fear and domination through terror within the muslim community and the world  

3 Feb 2006 @ 23:25 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : Its there fault
We muslims are not terrorists but when it comes to insulting a Prophet then the ones responsible must be punished ...we asked for an apology but it wont be deliverd then we hae to harvest our punishment our selves ...there is where the boycutt took place .....and by te way the losses off this boycutt is estimate by 61 billion till now.  

3 Feb 2006 @ 23:35 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : Green Day
One day we will rule this lands again and bring justice to this world where racist ppl like danes's who drew such stuff will be have respect and when feeling very funny and want to make funny cartoons maby they draw themselves better.....  

3 Feb 2006 @ 23:37 by john waheed @86.130.174.237 : chill out shaky
if the muslim population wised-up and spent its time educating its people instead of propogating its f*cked up medieval beliefs then maybe they would have something more productive to do than complain about a stupid cartoon! wake up islam and smell the coffee brother  

3 Feb 2006 @ 23:38 by vibrani : There ya go
see, there's no getting through to most of them. Guess what Shaykhoon - Mo isn't a prophet/profit to us. In fact, seems like he was a real pervert, kidnapping and raping young children in his own family, living by lies and violence. Some prophet, yeah. Jesus isn't God to me, either. So, what you gonna do about it? We all have our opinions. It's how you deal with them that's important. Is the only solution to anything you don't agree with to murder or boycott?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:06 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : Vibrani's Ignorence
both prophet Muhammad and jesus deserve respect because they are ones chosen from GOD over humanity .....ur ignorence filled with racisem cannot cange any thing in both thier history ......thier history is the absolute story of perfectin in humaman means....raping and kiddnapping is ur ideas in the west created and forged by you .....not us.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:12 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : to john
Jhon we do have problems of beeing third world countries i can see that but its not because we follow ISLAM , no but by beeing just as u so far from reliegion and closr to sins , and also because of beeing ruled by absolute fools like mubarak but this will be alla over soon and come one give us a break we ruled the woirld for over 1000 years if u know history .....we had to fall like all ...... but the diff. is that we will rise again ... then justice will be back and all will live happely then.............!!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:14 by vibrani : hahahaha
well, I don't agree with you at all. You can't change truth. Mo's story is told by Muslim scholars, not from any racism on my part. Maybe you could expand your thinking. But with the attitude that you will rise again and then there will be justice, is just repeating old Muslim ways of doing things and openly declares an agenda we're already aware of and don't accept for ourselves.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:19 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : for black boy
we will apologize when we aprove ... what i mean is we never supported 9/11 or the bombings in britan .... if u havent noticed the bombinges were in sharm el shiek as well ....the bombers are not Muslims the bombers are units having intrestes from many dealers ..... and by the way from the belifes that u think is teaching terrorism we have things called war beavior
Prphet muhammad said
never attack at night to not scare women and children ...when in battel never hurt and old man women chiled a plant or an animal .... and if the enemy calles for peace accept it.......for crying out lowed the butcher Hitler and his frnd mosoliny where from the west ....... or u do think they are MUSLIMS too?? maybe ur that ignorent..  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:20 by vibrani : Try this
[link]  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:21 by vibrani : Ha
do you know the meaning of Hudna? And Jihad? You're not talking to ignorant people.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:23 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : yes i do
its a peace offering that stops battles for a certain or un certain time...  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:26 by SHAYKOON @62.135.96.186 : so
u still know nothing about our Prophet ... all he did in this world is bring it back on its feet ....light the darkness ........and then ignorently u say such things about him..  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:30 by vibrani : Or
And try this Muslim site. [link]  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:31 by vibrani : Hudna
Nope. A hudna is a false peace that Muslims make in order to gain them time to regroup and gain more power so they can squash their enemy. They say it's peace, but it's a lie. How you manipuate. At times it is used with a potential for it to be a lasting peace, but....Hey, I'm giving you MUSLIM sources - I didn't make up this stuff.

Hudna has a distinct meaning to Islamic fundamentalists, well-versed in their history: The prophet Mohammad struck a legendary, ten-year hudna with the Quraysh tribe that controlled Mecca in the seventh century. Over the following two years, Mohammad rearmed and took advantage of a minor Quraysh infraction to break the hudna and launch the full conquest of Mecca, the holiest city in Islam. Arafat attempted a hudna, too.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:33 by SHAYKOON @62.135.96.186 : who wrote that
this was wrote by fools who cut half of the prophets words and just make a case out of it + the words of the Khalifa Omar Bin Khattab for example was totaly made up .
we where given Hegab we made women cover up and respected her for crying out lowed u used ur women as toyes by just putting them and thier pics naked every where u made a mokkery out of them and u say we treat them bad ....  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:34 by richard @24.71.50.68 : Has God gone insane
Humanity since its inception has lived under the Law of an 'eye for an eye'.As we evolved and became more civilised, Christ introduced into our psyche,"turn the other cheek.Love your enemies,do good unto those who harm you"Divine concepts to further our evolution. Why would God send mohamed and his terrorist teachings a few hundred years later to throw us backwards into darkness.Either God went insane or some other diabolical force sent him. Think about it. If anyone wants bring out into the open the example of mohameds life,as written by his followers, as the cartoons portray,muslims are whipped into an animalistic frenzy that those in the civilised world do not understand. Fear and ignorance are powerful tools. Keep the masses ignorant and threaten them with death. I say expose mohamed for who he really was, and in so doing you expose i SLAM. We have recently seen Mel Gibsons depiction of Jesus Christ in our theaters. I f mohamed was God's final prophet sent to humanity, let's go to their holy books and provide society with an unbiased depiction of mohamed and his nine year old wife Aiysha  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:36 by vibrani : Actions
speak louder than words, Shaykoon. We see Muslims actions, enough said.

Speaking for a worldwide account of how women are treated - there is child abuse and slavery all over the world, and abuse against women, too. Those are mostly done against their free will. Muslims are well known for their abuses against women and women have no free will. If someone WANTS to be a prostitute or model, and they're choosing it on their own, that's a free society. Muslim societies are not free - and we can see from your words how much you fear freedom by needing to control women and say it's because you respect them. BULLSHIT! That isn't respect, and it isn't love. It is slavery.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:37 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : yeah sure
muslim source is written by ( M. Rafiqul-Haqq and P. Newton ) u r kidding ur self + the define of hudna is totaly wrong its just an arabic word means what i have said not that.....and gehad is the spirit of sacrefce for islam and for GOD ...... watch AMerican movies of heros .... they probably die for a cause at the end .....wich means its a human noble concept ....i donno how u dont understand it ...are u green or somth.?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:40 by vibrani : *
*  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:41 by vibrani : I think you don't know
much about your own religion.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:43 by vibrani : If God
is God, why would it need or demand a sacrifice? Is it that weak and needy a character? Think outside of the box for a moment.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:45 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : how can u say that
how can u say that we through any one in darkness check the eroupean history we got u out of ur darkness we invented chemestry and improved physics mathematics and hundreds of other kinds of knolages ... we where ur light .... now u say we through u back in darkness u are so un knowing anything in ur entire life about what u where...... if we have foolish belifes then how come we ruled the world for over 1000 years ....  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:46 by vibrani : Oh get over it
The ancient Sumerians and Egyptians and Chinese did much more. What and when was the last good thing Muslims did for the benefit of humanity around the world? And if you're so great, how come you haven't "ruled the world" (your conception, not reality) for the last thousand plus years? You wish you ruled the world again.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:47 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : i ll let u answer ur self
do u know why are we her i mean in this life from the first place??  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:48 by vibrani : Yes, I do.
Do you?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:52 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : 1st i am EGYPTIAN
and i know exactly the greatness of the pharos ...well most of them not all but i tell u Islam is far greater and have accomplished far better ... in the ages of islam there was no poor ppl rouming the streets for a 100 years happend only 6 murdeds ...watch even how big the empire was from spain to china ....6 murders i bet there is more than 6 murders dayly in every city in euorop  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:55 by vibrani : However
even today there are women in Muslim countries who can't dress the way they want to, can't hold jobs, can't teach or go to school, can't drive a car, aren't allowed in public alone, can't marry who they want to. They are forced to undergo genital mutilation. That is all done in the name of Islam. If they choose not to obey, they are murdered. That is slavery, not freedom, not great and not an accomplishment.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:56 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : yep
we were chosen over angels and gens to build the world and make a great place of it .... by then the best in that and in folloing GOD's teaches and beliefs we may have the way back to heaven .... by thet there were hard tests .... the tuffest is to die for GOD fighting the ones who battles against the mission of humanity .... thats y its the highest and hardest rank of obediance to GOD.
wich is the most noble sacrefice of all  

4 Feb 2006 @ 00:57 by bushman : Hmm
Anyway it wasnt islam that invented that great stuff, it was an intellegent Arabic individual, not a religion. I mean burn all the flags you want, call names, but a civilized person "draws the line" at makeing death threats, and acting apon them.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:00 by vibrani : Well, that's not really it
sorry, but that's very twisted. We were not chosen over angels. Angels and us were all created by the same Source. We chose to fragment from the Source in order to be little creator gods ourselves, experience life in many forms, including physical form. Through the process of this, changing of densities and dimensions, and time in the third dimension, people forget. The fall is all about this forgetfulness of one's divinity. Life is to remember, to love and experience all the forms of God that there are in every one of us. No one is better than another. Remember, God created EVERYTHING, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, all creatures, rocks, water, storms, planets, stars - all of it. There is no place that is not of God.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:01 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : what
1st slavery is when sending naked women on the street or picturing her for mens plesure ... not by degnifing her with dressing her up + i admit that in some countries women is as u say not allowed to many things but its not what the prophet said..... by the way the prophets Daughter used to work as a nurse for the army....  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:02 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : ok ok
about the things of angels forget it i have a belife and u have one and i respect urs ....forget the details  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:03 by vibrani : The problem is
that there are many different interpretations of religion, Islam especially. There is little agreement among Muslims as to what is the truth.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:06 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : bushman
do u know what arabs where before ISlam they were never noticed as usfull creatures ...then the prophet shows up they follow him suddenly they are world leaders and thinkers ...still dont u think that ISLAM gave them an edge??  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:06 by vibrani : Yes I agree
with you that naked women on the street selling sex can be a form of slavery. Some women who feel they have no other options, choose to do this, too. That is a real pity. Thank you for acknowledging that Muslim women don't have equal rights.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:07 by vibrani : In all ages
there are individuals who come to remind people of who they are, to rekindle the divine spark within. Living divinely means respecting all life, not intentionally abusing it, wouldn't you agree?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:09 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : vibrani now u know what u are talking
about ... look that is one of our probs now i admit but u surely noticed that now one have a diff. openion abut quraan like u di in the bible.....  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:11 by vibrani : Shaykhoon
I really do think that people can come together on the basis of what we share in common, rather than our differences - while respecting our differences. What do you think about that? I don't have a problem with you believing in Mohammad. I do have a problem if you try to force your beliefs on me and demand I life and believe as you do. That is where we have a conflict between our cultures.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:13 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : ...
i do agree these ppl who reminde us are called prophets ..... wich we consider Great Muhammad the last of them ..
in other way i didnt say women have no equal rights they do in ISLAM but in some countries by mistake thaey dont which is not what the prophet said  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:14 by bushman : No I don't,
Im Armenian, yet you don't see me here whining about the Turks that tryed to whipe out my family, for deciding that we didnt want to be muslims. We where smart enough then to pick the most decent religion at hand. And move to a new land/run in terror of turkish swords, to ultamatly find a safe home, away from ignorance.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:15 by vibrani : Shaykoon
That is a problem in interpretation, and unfortunately that becomes law - not free for all people to find their own interpretation of religion.

I think there are prophets in all ages - one only need be open and see them. They are everywhere.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:16 by vibrani : That is also why
I think religion should NEVER dictate a country's policy.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:18 by vibrani : Now I have a question for you
why don't Muslim nations allow Jews and Christians to freely visit without fear of being attacked or killed? Some countries don't allow Jews at all. And these are countries in which Jews helped to build before they were expelled from them. What are Muslims so afraid of?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:19 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : we respect ur belifes
look we never forced anyone to beleave in MUHAMMAD i admit that in our relegion we have to tell uabout islam and convince u with it not force u to it ..... we respeect ur beleaves we just want u to respect ours ....and about caring to make u beleave in ISLAM its jutst that we see it the way to heaven and we whant u in heaven with us .... its not a fight of belife iits just a fight against who mokes our relegion and then says its freedom .. see thats the only prob.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:20 by vibrani : If you believe
that God created all of life, then what's the problem? Islam and Judaism (and Christianity, once removed) have the same roots in Abraham, for example.

I don't agree with you about not forcing people into Islam. It is a reality every day. And if a western woman goes to some Muslim nations, she is not accepted as she is - she has to conform to Muslim dress and behavior. That is not freedom.

When Saudis came to see Bush in Texas they refused to be flown by a woman pilot in our air force. Just because she is a woman. What kind of crap is that? Then men and women in Syria, for example, bite the heads off of puppies, kittens and snakes to show what they will do to their enemies. How can there be peace if everyone is an enemy?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:26 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : Like Mecca?
we allow them to visit every where but mecca in egypt cristians are our dearest frnds ever .... jews are too but not Israelies if u dont know why count the palasteniens who die every day by the Israelean terorism ...
mecca is authorized for muslims only thats kinda normal ...see it that way... when i come tto ur country u will need a visa from me to enter ur visa in mecca is ISLAm ppl from verey where go there with thier special pasport Islam moslems from us euorp asia russa and australia and middle east we just have different visa ISLAM u need me to be garantead by ur pplk as well  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:27 by vibrani : No, I don't mean Mecca
I am talking about being a tourist or there for a job. Excuse me, but do you know how many Israelis and others have been permanently damaged or died due to Palestinian bombs, knives, guns, and that Israel was forced to defend itself against these attacks? The Arabs always started the attacks and then celebrate how many they killed.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:34 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : mm
lol u havent seen EGYPT ...in sharm el shiek for example ur women are there even toppless we dont force any one to dress like ud .... we made areas just for u to be free as u see it.
+ i admit that saudi arabia have some problems in taking relegion very off limits .. but i assure u that is not what we were orderd ...
and yes all therelegons have the same roots thats why the three of us have the same GOD have some close beliefes coz we are all decending from the same place ... in ISLAM its said that it is an improvement of relegion like emagin if sons of adam where told to go to church or to pray 5 times a day they wont understand so its was given in steps... how ever jesus and moses have the same holyness in our hearts as MUHAMMAD and we respect them as well.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:37 by vibrani : I've been to Sharm
by the way :-) hahaha. I'm not using Egypt as a main example. That's why I said some Muslim nations.

But, don't you see what is going on when someone says one religion is better than another? It is automatically making enemies, not accepting another's beliefs. It is politically motivated. It's like saying, yeah we accept Moses and Jesus, but we're still better. Is that the point of living? Does that bring people together - or make them more separate?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:39 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : but wait
yes i know we seem as attack starters but go back since "belfor" when he gave a land he does not own to ppl who does not deserve the palasteniens are beeing eleminated here what do u think must the do ... they are sacreficing them selves for freeing thier land..... and the celebration is a war tactice u may approve or dissap[prove its scaring tackticks.... we never started war with them they started it and now they are in our lands ... think as if u were a palasteniene robed off ur land and freedom ... what will u do ?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:42 by Mohammad Kanaan @82.148.96.67 : Freedom of Speech in Europe

Guys, Sorry I haven't replied yesterday as it was my wedding anniversary. Had to promise the wife not to touch the computer all day long ;-)

I see the other side has ganged up on us with their hateful hearts. I am not going to credit those with a comment and will only reply to respectable, thought provoking comments.

Ahmed Fakhro,
Upon your request, I would like to enlighten you about freedom of speech and religion traditions in Europe:

In Denmark, the Government and the press are totally seperate. The Government and the Queen can't interfere with people's right of speech or religion. They can't even comment on it. Please read what Queen Margarethe of Denmark had to say on April 14th 2005:
"Denmark's Queen Margrethe has told a biographer that Islam is a challenge that Danes will have to meet. In a new royal biography, the Queen told reporter Annelise Bistrup that it is both inspiring and frightening when people embrace a religion as completely as many Islamists do. "This is a challenge that has to be met, and which we have not met so far"


European and North American laws guarantee freedom of speech and expression. You can not prosecute anybody for speaking his mind. Unless he is from the revisionist movement like the following names then you can be fined, fired, jailed and in some cases killed. One of these guys was prosecuted because he put the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust at 5.1m instead of 6:

Paul Rassinier,Robert Faurisson,Thies Christopherson,Judge Wilhelm Steglich,Joseph Burg,Professor Arthur Butz,Francois Dupart,Ditlieb Felderer,
Professor Austin App,Ernst Zundel,Jim Keegstra,Frank Walnus,Tjiudar Rudolf,Udo Walendy,Fred Leuchter,
David Irving,Gerd Honsik,Walte L, ftl,Imre Finta,Otto Ernst Remer,John Demjanjuk,Germar Rudolf,Bradley Smith,
Ingrid Weckert,Erhard Kemper,Gunther Deckert,Hans Schmidt,Gurgen Graf,Siegfried Verbeke,Carlos Porter,Pedro Varela,
Ahmed Rami,Nick Graffin,Jean Marie Le Pen,Roger Garaudy,Robert Countess,Fredrick Toben,

Now Don't get me wrong, I don't know these people nor do I know enough about what they stand for but the point I am trying to make is clear I hope.


As for the freedom of the media, then it is the most sacred in the West. The following are some examples:

- in October of 2003, the US government directly interfered with the broadcast of the Syrian TV series Al-Shatat for negatively depicting the Zionist movement. The state department asked several Arab government to stop the broadcast of the series. All have complied except Lebanon based Al-Manar TV station.

- 10 Dec 2004 Al-Manar TV station was removed from the US airwaves.

- 22 Dec 2004 the EU lead by France pulls the plus on Lebanese TV station Al-Manar

- 13 November 2001 Aljazeera TV station office in Kabul was bombed by a US missile.

- On April 8th, 2003 American forces bombed the Baghdad office of the Pan-Arab TV station Aljazeera which resulted in the death of one reporter (Tareq Ayoub) and wounded another.

- 29 December 2003 Pentagon Advisor Frank Gaffney published an opinion piece calling for both Al-Jazeera and Alarabiya TV stations to be taken down "one way or another"

- A memo leaked from No. 10 to the Daily Mirror which stated that President Bush planned to bomb the Head Quarters of Qatar based Al-Jazeera TV station.



- One person mentioned that David Irving was interviewed on their local TV. I am more interested to know how many times David Irving was banned, harrased, tried, and convicted for speaking.



- I c a lot of dudes are trying to put a violent tone on the Muslim respone which is not true. Today there were hundreds of demonstrations all over the world and none of them produced any violence (I pray for it to stay that way). Of course there was a bomb threat 2 days ago but please underdtand that we are 1.3 billion people. You can't prevent a teenager from calling a bomb threat out of anger or out of fun even. A while ago in the us, a guy called a bomb threat to his work just so he can take a longer lunch hour. This is hard to control. In addition, this is considered very tame compared to the reactions that were experienced when "The Last Temptation of Christ" the movie was shown into theaters. If you all recall, there were hundreds of death threats and tens of theaters burnt down in protest.

- Now if you are talking about Danish troops in Iraq then that is another story. They have chosen to participate in a war and it is only reasonable to expect that they are going to be shot at. Isn't this what war is all about.

- I kind of agree that the reaction to the cartoons is very strong, but please understand that this is not just an isolated incident. Muslims in Denmark have been complaining for months about a pattern of behaviour taken against them starting with the Queen's statements all the way down. It has become too much

Andrius and Ming, you are a breath of fresh air in this forum. I would be honored to join your independent thinking group. I will go through the website and will follow up as soon as I can.

Some dudes mentioned in their comments that Islam is an entolerant religion, I will try to respond to this in a a future post.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:42 by vibrani : The Arabs
here's what happened, Shaykoon...let's be honest.
[link]

As for the last post, check around, there were many Muslims having hot demonstrations burning flags and calling for violence over those cartoons.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:43 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : i am with u in that
of course thats very wrong to say we are better and such stuff we are all equal at last relegion is for GOD and we are all human beaings as like we will all be Judged by GOD ....who says such things is wrong.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:45 by vibrani : Okay
Thanks for the discussion. I have to go now. Give some time to think about our discussion and the last link I left you. Take care. Talk with you later.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:48 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : ok man
and am really pleased to talk to an understanding man ... i have miss judged u by saying u are a raceist ... bye now and see u later  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:51 by vibrani : heehee
I'm a woman. Thank you. Bye.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:52 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : By the way
do u know what els golda meir said by the way
she said " the Muslaims will retake thier lands and be standing where i am when the no. of the ones who pry (al fagr prayer ) are equal the ones who pray ( al gomaa prayer ). which means when they follow thier relegion truthfully .
notice thats not the exact words but thats what the words meant.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:54 by vibrani : One last question before I go tonight
what do you think of what Sheikh Palazzi says?

Israel - we have a long list of people responsible for the present condition - starting with Arafat, England, Sadat even, Begin for giving in to Sadat, Jimmy Carter, even Clinton. But the solution means someone is going to have to give up their idea of having Israel as a Palestinian country.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:55 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : lol
hehe didnt know sorry.....bye  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:56 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : mmm
sorry what did he say again  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:56 by vibrani : I know
it's okay. Good night/morning. Oh Palazzi - check out my news log. If you can't get there let me know. I'll put up a link.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 01:58 by vibrani : Here
[link]  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:00 by Roger @218.103.252.173 : Mohammed Cartoon
If a parent stops to pacify every scream from every child in their house they'll never leave, never get anywhere. If we continue to accommodate the childish demands of this group we'll have to do it for every group and the world will be so PC we'll get nowhere. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:00 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : :S
password needed!!!!!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:02 by vibrani : Oh hmmm
It is set for the public to read. I don't know why you can't see it. Can I email it to you?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:04 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : ok
ok my mail is AL_KHALEFA@hotmail.com  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:05 by vibrani : Got it
okay - will send it now. Then you can remove your email from this log.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:12 by Chris @24.131.202.17 : Muslims
I say screw the Muslims. I used to think that it was just a radical few, but look at the overall reaction of these religious fanatics (freaks). It's obvious their religion is poison. They are calling for the death of the cartoonist or the bombing of the newspaper. How fucking silly is that. This is their reaction to satire or a free press?!? These people are disturbed, and should be locked away in their own country, given guns (because you know they'll start shooting each other immediately), and ignored for all time. I don't know, maybe the sun just bakes their brains.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:17 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : well
my opinion s that he is a fool and a trator to any thing he is supposed to stand for ...and i guess he is payed of excpects to be paid to say that  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:23 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : fools
chris it seems that u just woke up and didnt organize ur thoughts yet muslims are almost 2 billion of 6 billion living in this world .... + raceism is not an option u can afford ......so just get back to sleep .  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:28 by Danish @86.52.46.251 : Support us

Some of us Europeans knows what the Americans did doing that 1, and 2'nd world war. You helped us from the evil! And now it's time to help us once more... All people of Europe and America, who loves democracy and freedom, please buy Danish products. Don't let the muslims decide abouth our freedom of speech!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:31 by Chris @24.131.202.17 : Support the Danes
Excellent Idea!! I am going out to buy Danish products tomorrow! All Americans and Europeans and allies should support each other. I will email all my friends with the same instruction! Buy Danish!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:33 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : Danish
danish u wont hold out for long ...i guess ur losses till now is 61 billion dayly since we started boycutting u ...i hope u stop following the devil and apologize let us all live peacefully once again.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:34 by Chris @24.131.202.17 : 2 Billion
2 Billion Shaykhoon? I think one Ohio Class submarine can cut that number by 50%. You stupid Muslims better watch how far you push this war. Don't think it can't happen. You're showing up to the gun fight with a stick, shithead.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:35 by Mohammad Kanaan @82.148.96.67 : US Reaction
The US State Department called for European media to act more responsibly and not to offend Muslims. Kurtis Cooper, a department spokesman, said “We all respect freedom of the press but . . . inciting religious or ethnic hatreds in this manner is not acceptable.”

- Even the US government sees this as incitment of religious and ethnic hatred.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:36 by Chris @24.131.202.17 : GDP
Hey Shaykhoon, 61 Billion a day???? Denmark's annual GDP is approx $162Billion. Kinda hard to imagine you towelheads buying 61 Billion Danish anythings in a year let alone a day. Dumbshit.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:38 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : hehe
u think i cannot see tha this might lead to a war ..., i do we never hoped for war but u asked for it so we will show u no mercy by then dont forget our power we have 90% of the petroleam in the wolrld + GOD is on our side u will be crushed by toys but then remember u asked for war..... as we crushed u in ages past we shall do so again.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:40 by Chris @24.131.202.17 : Oil
Do you know what the US government's policy is if they run out of oil? They will simply take it. What are you going to do to stop it??? Strap an explosive device on another teenage kid or girl? You're a bunch of idiots.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:41 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : :)
still again.... i hope u stop madness and about us AMERICA hates raceism i guess u r gardian wont be all on ur side now....  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:45 by Chris @24.131.202.17 : Peace
We are a peaceful people. You could stop all this hate and war. Simply stop killing people with bombs! It's that simple...stop killing people. You are at fault. No one else. Your people think they will get a bunch of virgins when they die for your cause. That is the stupidist thing I have ever heard. When your terrorists die in their horrible acts they will most likely be fucked in the ass by pigs in hell for all eternity.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 02:45 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : u cannot take it lol if we dont give it
Remember 1973 when we cut out the petrolyem off u and u cried like sisees lol.
well i wont waste my time talking to u chris i only talk to the sain ppl of u ...Bye  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:01 by vibrani : General Motors
runs cars on sugar in South America, and we can do it, too. We can run cars on old cooking oil, garbage. Don't need Arab oil. I'm not boycotting Denmark because I believe in freedom of the press. I don't think the intent was to insult Muslims, but to express how they are seen by the Western world. If they don't like their own reflection, maybe they need to think about what they're putting out.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:07 by Dabish @86.52.46.251 : SHAYKHOON
What a f..cking idiot!
61 billion! If your rediculus country didn't have any oil, you've would have been living in poverty like all other muslim countries! And if islam is superior to all other societies, please mention ONE muslim country that does well, with out oil-money! The fact is that muslim countrys are living in the middle ages, 200-300 years behind the western world (with the only excemption of the US deep south, who doesn't believe in Darwin).
Wake up! Muhammed was a fake, as was Jesus and Budda! But the muslims are the only ones taking this shit serious. What the fuck is wrong with you guys?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:07 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : mmm
maybe we will see very soon if u can hold on or not ... but i hope not ... may denmark get back to its miunde and know that insulting relegions is not freedom its raceisem.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:12 by Danish @86.52.46.251 : SHAYKHOON
"maybe we will see very soon if u can hold on or not ... but i hope not ... may denmark get back to its miunde and know that insulting relegions is not freedom its raceisem."

What a fucking idiot! And judging an entire country because of a few drawings isn't racist???????? You stupid muslim moron!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:13 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : Great JUSES and MUHAMMAD
jusus is not fake as dop MUHAMMAD ...i admit that we have a draw back and we are almost the worse countries now ...but thats because we got further and futher away from ISLAM and now we dont follow as we were ordered...come on as i said when MUHAMmAD came to us he made us rule the world and provideit with the extreem knolage for more than 1000 years  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:14 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : sorry
sorry i sent a lnk in danish's name by mistake.......  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:16 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : :S
i got to sleep ppl and u are buncjh of raceists and am starting to get confused see u later bye  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:23 by Danish @86.52.46.251 : Hitler
Shaykhoon, Hitler also promised his followers a 1000-year empire (riech). Do you see my point?
Furthermore, I know a lot of danis people who are tired of muslims telling them what to do! My guess is that you are living in a european country, otherwise you've woudn't have been allowed to issued theese the point of views (Mostly because 75% of all wep-sites are banned in the muslim world).
So I hope you're enjoying your freedem of speech, and the social benifits that you and your family are collecting from the Governments that you so clearly hate!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:25 by vibrani : Shaykhoon
why do you need to be ordered to follow any belief? Can't you find God on your own? I think this is one of the biggest issues the world over: those who choose to follow organized religions and those who choose to create their own. Maybe it's just my observation but it seems that the ones following organized religion are usually those not able to accept those who don't, or against who have found a way to use religion in a healthy way for themselves and towards others. It seems to boil down to those who don't need or want a religious leader versus those who do and then how everyone interacts. Polarities and then the balance of the two....

Shaykoon - you didn't answer my question about what Muslims fear. Is it change? Anything that is different?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:26 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : hehe
thats because these percent mostly cocern porn + i am from EGYPT and i live there  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:27 by vibrani : lol
you sure seem to pay a lot of attention to porn.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:29 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : vibrani
we have never forced any one to ISLAM and never forced any one to even listen to our thoughts ...AS ALLAH says u have ur relegion and i have mine......  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:30 by vibrani : Here's my take on religion
religion is largely based on fear of accepting who we are and living as we choose. It tries to make people feel bad for being divine creations, so how can people live divinely with that instilled in them from birth? You are sinful, you can't have sex, you can't do this or that. Suppress your true nature, and you got problems.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:31 by vibrani : Shaykhoon
that would be nice if it were true, but as we discussed before, there are many interpretations of Islam and ways of living as Muslims that don't see it the same way you do.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:31 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : lol
lol not really but i know whats going outside in the world thats y i know that the biggest share of websites now is porn :)  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:32 by vibrani : By the way
did you get the article I emailed you?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:33 by vibrani : Yes
there are so many porn sites, but I don't go to them. Just as there are many nude clubs/bars, houses of ill repute lol - don't need to go there.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:36 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : vibrani
u wont excpect all who say they are muslims to be perfect we never said we were GODS we are humans who try to follow thier beleafes
for example danish and the otheres do u see them so good in talking ... they are just swearing without understanding.....+ the way i try to show it to u is how it is but its even better.....  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:37 by vibrani : I was a Sufi
in my last lifetime, and that was okay, and Muslim in previous ones that I remember. I know what is there...and that's why I'm not there now lol.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:37 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : yes
yep i did  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:39 by vibrani : Okay
good.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:45 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : by the way
and by the way danish hitler promised his ppl with a 1000 year empire of hateand crulty we promis u 1000 years of just and light + for crying out lowd hitler is one of u ........  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:50 by vibrani : Hitler
was insane, in the greatest illusion of being separate from God. And he killed many Europeans, Indians, gypsies, Muslims, Jews, gay people, African people; anyone he didn't think measured up to his idea of perfection. He wasn't one of us - he was in the lowest class of his own creation...and some chose to join him there in the greatest place of darkness so that eventually the light could shine on it and wipe it out. The battle still continues, however, whenever one people with massive egos think they're superior to another or that they have a right to control people or use genocide. Now, when we see Muslims go extreme, it has a familiar ring to it and most people don't want to see a repeat of such negative activity. Look at Iran - Muslim nation preaching genocide. Isn't that like Hitler?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 03:56 by Danish @86.52.46.251 : ... By the way
Sorry for nit responding right away Shaykhoon, but I was surfing porn...lol!
And excuse me for qouting you but still:
"and by the way danish hitler promised his ppl with a 1000 year empire of hateand crulty we promis u 1000 years of just and light + for crying out lowd hitler is one of u ........ "
Comparing Hitler to us europeans, is the same as comparing you to those assholes who blew uo the WTC. Whatøs your opinion on that?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:03 by Juan Pablo Almeyda @62.252.32.12 : mohammed islam pictures
i think these pictures are a very stupid idea of the danishes to start a war with the islamic religion... i have studied about islam and i know that its very close to christianity, same god, same jesus, now they wouldnt want jesus shown in pictures either, or moses or ibrahim...
thank you
p.s to that idiot vibrani theres no such thing as extreme and whatever u call it and all that crap darkness whatever rubbish u wer saying, it sounds like something which came at the top of ur head when u wer in the toilet mate, and also mohammed didnt tell anybody to kill u stupid idiot go learn it sounds like u never read a book in ur life
thank you every one  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:05 by vibrani : Oh please
if you think a cartoon is an effort to start a war, there would be plenty more wars than currently exist on this planet. Did you ask the cartoonist personally? That's laughable.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:06 by vibrani : And
Juan - I'm not an idiot. There are people who are extreme in all religions. If you don't see it, not my fault. And learn to write would you.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:06 by Danish @86.52.46.251 : Red Sea
And based on your previous postings Shaykhoon. I bet you wish I'd cherrish all the muslims who died in that ferry accident today!
But that's the differance between you and me. I don't jugde a people on their prophets (unlike you), and I do not hail other peoples misfortune (unlike you), we western people cherrish democarcy,and hails free speech (unlike you). Wake up!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:07 by Juan Pablo Almeyda @62.252.32.12 : mohammed pics
just to reply to danish pasties
mate... stop picking ur nose and think for once in ur life...
why would 2000 jew workers in the WTC not be killed after 9/11, because it was planned by american CIA, bush, and mosad in israel, cowrkingwith mister ben ladin who lives in a cave  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:08 by vibrani : Danish
you can't make people wake up if they don't want to. It's like you're in one world and they're in another - two different dimensions that can't see each other fully. They have to WANT to change - and I think change in some areas scares the shit out of them. In other ways, like using American technology or products, they aren't so afraid. They are selective. If they can use it for themselves and make a profit from it, they will. Then they'll turn their back on you and criticize you for other things as if they don't accept anything of your culture. Baloney. It's calculated by the few and the many are ignorant, educated in madrasses and don't know anything but what their imam tells them to believe. Don't ask, don't question, don't do anything but what you're told.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:12 by Juan Pablo Almeyda @62.252.32.12 : RE: vibrani
vibrani, people differ, u can never measure people on a scale, u can never measure them in ur head, u cant even measure them in rickter's gauge.. so i believe u hav extremists but i know that islam, means peace in the arabic language, and their book told them not to attack anyone, its exactly like christianity, especially people who are unarmed and not attacking  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:12 by vibrani : Islam means submission
to Allah, Juan. Saalaam means peace. Get with the program. Ever read the Koran? I have and it does tell people to attack certain people, like Jews, infidels. It's full of mixed messages, just like other religions.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:13 by danish @86.52.46.251 : Juan
Well woopdi doo Juan...I have studied Islam sa well, and you're right that it's basically the same God. But there's where the simmilaritys end. The extremists in the ME, are fra worse than the inbreed rednecks in rhe US. And your naive beliefs are simply stupid, and ignorant. Everybody are able to see that the muslim elite are trying to take control of the western presse. Well over my dead body!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:16 by vibrani : NO
you're wrong, Juan. Saalam means peace. I slam is not exactly the same, is it?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:18 by vibrani : You're so ignorant Juan
you don't know what you're talking about.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:23 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : vibrani
yes Islam is the word cut out of salam 'peace'.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:24 by Juan Pablo Almeyda @62.252.32.12 : vibrani
"qura'an" mr vibrani doesnt tell people to attack except the infidels.. are u or are u not an infidel, look for the meaning of infidel then answer  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:25 by vibrani : And
doesn't it mean submission to Allah, as so many Muslims have often said? It is CUT OUT of salaam...  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:25 by danish @86.52.46.251 : Juan
All right Juan. We've all figured out that you belong on the extreme left-wing by now. No-body else believes that the CIA and Bush was behind the WTC bombing... So I guess that you are also one of these soft idiots, taht thinks that the muslims are the victims of everything that's wrong in this world.... It's the soft-core mentality of your kind, that has allowed the muslims to infiltrate our comunity doing the last fre years.
But allow me to say the following to the muslims living in europe:
We're sorry that we offered you hospitality, when you were abandoning your own country.
We're sorry that we gave you freedom of speech.
We're sorry, that we gave you freedom of religion.
We're sorry that more than 50% of you refuse to get a job, and insists to live of social benefits.
Hopefully the boycot means that you'll leave Europe for home!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:27 by vibrani : I pose the question
then if it is a religion of peace (and I know there are Muslims who do live like that), why is it that so many are intent on proving otherwise? Shaheeds aren't peaceful. It goes against Islam, but there is this extreme Islam that has taken over and speaks for all of you. If you don't like it, then speak out and show differently. That's why I sent you Palazzi's articles. So far, there are few peaceful Muslim voices being heard.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:28 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : danish
guys who everis behind that bombing non supports it not ISLAM pr any other relegion.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:30 by Juan Pablo Almeyda @62.252.32.12 : re danish
what freedom of speach??? do u know why JFK was assasinated??? do u know why sooo many ploitical figures were taken out??? its because of the freedom of speach!
and also what hospitality ur danish government who were living on cows, wer looking for other ways of income,
also mr danish if we go back in history who made law, mathematics etc... well these both were made in the land of mesopotamia present iraq so u cant say we giv u hospitality u didnt learn to live away from cows unless ur people started opening their minds and going to learn the way of the arabs and the muslims  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:31 by danish @86.52.46.251 : Vibrani
Thanks Vibrani... That's the most intelligent thing I has heard so far today... Why are the muslims crying about these cartoons, yet thet NEVER demostrate when an idiot.suicide-bomber is blowing up a bus with women and children!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:32 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : vibrani
shaheeds are what u call in american movies the hero who dies for his caus ...love or country ............in ISLAM the one who sacrefices his life for his country or GOD is a shaheed so its symply am martyre . a noble hero who died coz he stood by his beleafs......  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:33 by vibrani : Thank you, Danish
my point exactly. On the other extreme, they are throwing parties celebrating the deaths and encouraging more. A sane Muslim, who has control over him or herself, would be able to discuss these cartoons intelligently and peacefully, and be a LIVING example of peace that Islam proclaims itself to be. Then maybe others would respect them.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:34 by danish @86.52.46.251 : Juan
And how has these great mesopotamians evoloped since??? Excactly, they haven't, cause they still live in the middleages. Prove me wrong!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:35 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : ffs
danish dont act da fool u know when one bombes him self in iraq or palastine he kills soliders ffs how will women and children go to iraq otherwise usend them to die to make us look like terorists and about the bombings of 9/11 londen and sharm el shiek they are from global terorists  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:35 by vibrani : Shaykoon
Yes, I know what a real shaheed is, and that's what I was talking about. And I think it's bullshit and excuses to murder anyone who isn't like you and use the excuse that it's for God or country. God would NEVER ask for that. That is why I know most people have no clue what God is.

Martyrdom is a mental illness in my opinion, a product of a very dysfunctional belief of one's self and life.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:38 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : vibrani
u dont mok the dearest thing that we all stand for and then expect peace u are not talking to fools here  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:38 by vibrani : Juan
You're not reading closely what I've already written. I said that suicide in itself is against Islam. BUT Islam is twisting that to make it okay if you kill others and yourself (and then you get a super pass to heaven with all these virgins lol) if you do it for God. It's sick.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:40 by vibrani : Juan
it's a choice - you can choose to live peacefully or violently. You can choose to be your own guru or follow someone else. You can choose to eat healthy food or junk food. That's why the West is so great - we know we have choices and can choose for ourselves.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:40 by danish @86.52.46.251 : Shit
Shaykoon... You're are the biggest hypocrite in the whole world!
You defend the boycots of the entire danish people, because of the cartoons printed by a free newspaper (as if you know what that is!). Yet you claim that the WTC-bombings were not commited bt the muslim-worls, but by individuals... I puke!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:41 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : vibrani
yes GOD does notwant death of inocents but when u kill hundreds of peacfull ppl and bomb thier homes and when they defend thier selves .. u call them terorists then y did u fight the britsh long ago ....? where u terorists by then  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:43 by vibrani : You must be
a Muslim, too, Juan. You can try to justify abuse and terror to fit your religion. Sorry.....doesn't work. Yes, as I said several times already, there are many interpretations. Why follow any of them?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:45 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : what
yes ISLAM never encorage killing inocents as 9/11 + if u post pics of our Prophet then thnk thats freedon .... now we tell u no that offended us .....u say so what thats freedom so as civilized as we are we will not buy any of ur products till u apologize or just keep losing till u fall down.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:45 by vibrani : If that person died
then you might never know they're real intent. Just as well. It doesn't seem to matter.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:46 by vibrani : Gotta go now
bye.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:47 by danish @86.52.46.251 : Juan
You've just proved me right, you fucking idiot!!!!
These cartoons were drawed by 12 differant men (yes, there was 12 differant de´rawings). And no one of them has died yet!
You stupid fool. Have you even seen these cartoons, an do you know why they were printed in the first place? Or you just trying to get som attention to you idiot.beliefs?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 04:51 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : GOD's Fury
danish u llok like a nazi ur even worse than hitler u just think ur better but u aint may GOD settle the score bet. us tommorow if not then when denmark is beeing destroyed by natural disaster dont say thats just a disaster know that GOD will reply ....then we will............out \bye  

4 Feb 2006 @ 06:43 by vibrani : All I can say is
thank you for showing the people who come here the Muslim way of rationalizing themselves and their actions. Shaykhoon, I sent you a document and you didn't discuss it at all. You avoided answering direct questions about several things and just expect that all your yelling and insult flinging will be enough to sway us to your way of thinking, scare us, or that we have to accept it or die through some God-sent disaster or whatever. What about the 1,000 people missing from the ferry boat accident? Maybe that's God's way of punishing Muslims? How childish, how ignorant, inflexible, how unable to live peacefully in the world today. Why should anyone believe Islam means peace?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 07:03 by vibrani : Those wild Wahhabi women
A new sex in the city - Muslim/Saudi Arabian style?[link]  

4 Feb 2006 @ 08:08 by Left @219.83.18.102 : Peace
I think that the Danes probably just dont understand that insulting Muhammad is a huge deal. They probably think it's just like making cartoons of the pope and Jesus. I mean, Muhammad is not the Muslim's god after all. But I also think that the paper should just apologize, if nothing just for the sake of diplomacy, and to say that they didnt mean to hurt anybody. Apologizing doesn't have to be about giving up the right of free speech. It's just to make sure that nobody gets their feelings hurt. So what's the harm in that?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 08:55 by IslamIsDying @212.33.117.227 : To Shaykhoon
Rofl this guy is an idiot!!! Look her son, FUCK MOHAMED (PISS be upon him), a fake prophet that built a religion based on SEX and SLAVERY OF WOMEN, not to mention the BULLSHIT ideas that he built this reiligion on.
There are 1 billion muslims now ....as far as i'm concerned, 1 billion people are going to HELL, islam is simply FAKE get it? FAKEEEE, how many times do i have to say this Jesus said that there will be no prophets after him and tghey 1 does come he is FAKE.
Btw are you saying muslim women are not slaves?! ROFLLL!!! For crying out loud you make them cover there WHOLE FUCKING UGLY BODY for nothing, they are too ugly to look attt !!!!!! not to mentiom the genital mutilation thing, you force them not to have sex, EVER ! WTF man women are born with sexual needs JUST LIKE MEN, YOU DIDN'T KNOW THIS BEFORE DID YOU? LOL.
Btw you're saying that the U.S Britian Russia France DEnmark Germany Italy China and Israel cannot defeat a few perverted countries? I mean PLEASE, if denmark goes to war ALONE it can WHIPE OUT the whole islamic world ! Soon muslims will all be back to poverty again, once there oil runs out (estimated 60-100 years) they will e back on the streets like any other muslim country.
Btw just like they told , do you think the U.S will alow you to stop giving them oil? They simply do to you or saudi arabia what they did in iraq, which to america was a piece of cake rofl.
God Bless America for controlling these ugly pigs :)  

4 Feb 2006 @ 10:53 by Faidros @217.208.25.51 : To IslamIsDying
The case with you being "worshiped" in the US is something that says more about the americans than anything else. In my eyes religous fanatics are a wierd bunch of people - the US christianity not the least.

If you are such a christian - what has become of the "turning the other cheek" or "love your neighbourg...". I dont think your lord ever mentioned anything about people being "pigs" or the "shit of humanity".

You say you are a christian but you surely dont behave like one. Until you do or get civilised in some other way I suggest you count me out before you state that "Im like you - I belive in the same tings that you do".  

4 Feb 2006 @ 11:42 by jazzolog : Vibrani Toe To Toe
Here is classic Nora in a battle worthy of her armor. Sometimes you're a real inspiration, lady.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 13:15 by shinan @202.1.193.14 : denmark
These are cases which are not avoidable.We all do have freedom of expression but i guess this has gone beyong the point.We muslims cant' tolerate these things.I ask the international community to make them come to justice.Islam is a much more respectful religion than what you non-moslim thinks.

So let them face justice and let them get the punishment.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 15:02 by vibrani : hmmm
for pretending to be such tough guys, you sure must be fragile, being so unable to tolerate cartoons. Islam respectful? To whom? How? You think you're being an example of that?  

4 Feb 2006 @ 16:40 by Lisa @83.249.48.236 : Come on, get over it!
Look guys! What's the big deal here? It's not like life doesn't go on after this. And it's not the first time in world history, that people have insulted each other and each others religion. And guess what, life goes on. I think the whole thing is just ridiculous and pathetic. I mean, welcome to the modern world, people do not always agree with you. The thing is that all the muslims I have ever met, and had a discussion with, is just as narrowminded as everybody else, if not more. It's really their way or the highway. Some of my muslim friends actually feel sorry for me, because of the way I choose to lead my life. Come on, I don't need your pity, I'm not suffering and I am not going to hell, because I don't believe there is a hell. That is an invention of people, I truly believe that. On the other hand, if these people think that they need religion (and that goes for any religion)to be happy, then go ahead. I'm not gonna stop you. I don't even care, as long as you keep it to yourself and don't try to force it down my throat. I don't force my ideas down your throat so just leave me alone, and get on with your life. It's not that big a deal!!!
And to shinan: If islam is such a respectful religion, why can't you respect that not everybody belive in it? And if you feel better to say that punishment is coming to us... fine. Just leave it to God, and get on with your life, baby!
As far as I'm concerned, I'm not even worried...  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:01 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : for all
I CANNOT BELEAVE THAT U REALLY THINK U ARE THE ONES ARE RIGHT HERE U INSULT US AND THEN SAY SO WHAT THATS FREEDOM FREEDOM IS WHEN U INSULT UR SELVES AND THEN LAUGH U WHO EVER CALLED ISLAMIS.... U ARE THE EXACT KIND OF FOOLISHNESS IGNORENSE AND STUPIDITY U DONT KNOW NOTH ABOUT OUR RELEGION AND YET U TALK.... WHO BASED THER LIVES ON SEX R U U SEND NAKED WQOMEN ALL OVER THE STREETS U RAPE CHILDREN AND YET U SAY WE ARE WRONG .......LISA THANX FOR UR OPINION BUT THAT OFFENDS US FREEDOM DOES NOT MEEN TO URT OTHER PPL BUT TO SAY WHAT U WANT IN A WAY THAT DOES NOT URT ANY OONE AND NO WORLD CANNOT GO ON UNLESS THE PRESS APOLOGIZE FOR THE WAY THEY EXPRESSED THIER OPINION....AND VIBRANI IF U READ WHAT I HAVE SAID I ANSERED UR QUESTION THE THING U SENT ME IS TOTALY MADE FROM A TRATOR WHO IS GETTING PAID OR EXPECTS TO GET PAID ....AND ABOUT THE SINKING BOAT WELL I DONT KNOW WE MAY NEVER KNOW BUT I DONT THINK IT WAS god'S PUNISHMENT TO US OR SOMTH. ......FFS IF U HURT SOME ONE AND U CALL IT FREEDOM THEN U KNOW NOTH. ABOUT FREEDOM ....  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:09 by vibrani : I HARDLY THINK SO!
With a doctorate in Islamic sciences from the Institute for Islamic Studies and Research in Naples (by authorization of the former Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia), and ijazzah (authorization to teach) both Koranic exegesis and Islamic law from the prestigious University of al-Azhar as-Sharif in Cairo, Palazzi backs his somewhat surprising positions with citations from the Koran and traditional Muslim sources.

I have tried to be respectful towards you, but you don't accept that. I have tried to have discussions with you, but you obviously are so confused in your head that you can't have one with any intelligence. You have been successfully brainwashed by your twisted religion to the point that you have no more brain of your own left, and you have no interest in learning what's really true.

You should have such a position and knowledge as Palazzi. You have proven yourself to be a fool, and not at all interested in peaceful solutions and not in your own religion. You are the perfect example of the sickness in Islamic society that is spreading. If anyone else wants to waste their time with you, I leave it to them. I'm finished.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:17 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : what??? peace u know noth about peace...
peacfull solution.... who is talking u are the ones attacking us out of racism every where u think u are in iraq for freedom or in afganistan for ben laden u didnt get this ben laden coz u never cared to u are battleing for israels sake trying to eliminate us and u call the one who kills women and children and unarmed ppl peacful ....on the other side the one who is stugeliung against invasion and occupation of israel to palastine a terorist .... u absulutly dont know noth in ur life for beleaving bushes lies and calling the patriots terorists i guess we have the to let u kill us and take our lands to be good ppl .....well no u attack we defend until we push u back out of our lands  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:20 by The don @203.98.91.57 : Please respect other religion
whe it came related with the religion there was no such things funny. there because that what you believe. the when you make funny on some religion that equal you paly with what people believe. where people already believe in one religion. they will follow the rule and also gonna protect when other people insult them. so please never ever make fun of muslim. because we believe and also attach on holly qur'an you can't make a figure of prophet of Muhammad That was a rule. and every moslem should follow so please don't make it simple as freedom. you should respect what other believe......  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:24 by vibrani : One of the things I've learned
is that a real spiritual leader has a sense of humor, can laugh at themselves, too. They sing, dance, and love life, understand the joy that is God. That leaves you and Mohammad out of the running. You just don't get God at all.

And don, fuck you and your double standards.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:28 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : ohhhh
so we make a fool out of our selves to be funy ...of u can do that to normal muslims it will be jokeing that can be accepted but to the GREAT Prophet nooooooooooooooooooooo we dont accept it .....now ur the ons trying to force us in to ur beiefe making fool of every dear and Honorable thing in our life......  

4 Feb 2006 @ 17:31 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : EVEN
even the pope in fatekan asked denmark to act respectfully ...  

4 Feb 2006 @ 18:01 by bushman : Again:
Muslim laws only apply to those that choose to be muslims. Laws, I might add, that were writen by uncivalized barbarians. It's the 21st century, some of us what to explore Mars and space. And we have that chance, but nooo, 1/2 the people in the world today, are stuck in the midle ages. The midle east is 500 years away from most advacments, if any of them had rockets, they wouldn't be using them to go to space, they would use them to blow people up. The muslim world has squandered 10,000 years of existance, all in the name of thier god. Put down your guns/egos/pride, and spend your time doing peacefull work. Show the rest of the world that you are a becon of light and love. Or watch your lands become contaminated and unuseable for anything but oil production. We can't help you stop them (your true enemies), if all your going to do is blow people up and shoot at them and make threats. Muslim law is not world law, basic human rights, is world law now. Seriously its time that the muslim world awakens as the light they were ment to be. Put down your guns, and show us.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 18:07 by IslamIsDying @212.33.117.227 : shaykhoon
Dude listen, i'm sure your ignoring my other comments but here i go again.
You say islam is a strong religion?? FOR FUCKS SAKE you made the WHOLE FUCKING WORLD HATE MUSLIMS BECAUSE OF A PICTURE !! A PICTURREEEE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And it's not even a REAL RELIGION, for the 10000000th time IT IS FAKEEEEEEEEEEE and for the 10000th time also jesus said that if a prophet comes after him he is FAKE. JESUS CHRIST THESE GUYS ARE IDIOTS !
Your ugly fake prophet made a religion of hatred, sex, slavery, and aggression, the likes os muslims aren't needed in this world, and one day im 10000% sure the chrisitna world will that it's time to put you guys to a limit. almost 90% of the worlds problems are made by islam.
I just want to know, how dare you and mohamed (PISS be upon him) make women wear the ugly hijab and make them cover their bodies and do genital mutilations (which is 100% SLAVERY) when your prophet fucked a women each night and married 30 wives? YOU FUCKING TELL ME WHAT KIND OF RELIGION IS THIS?!!? Should be called SEXLAM  

4 Feb 2006 @ 18:16 by ming : IslamIsDying
IslamIsDying, if you're trying to demonstrate that Christians are uncivilized nut cases as well, you're succeeding marvelously. I'm not a Christian, but I do know enough to notice you didn't grasp the first thing about it.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 18:27 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.44 : .....
for bushman we pushed the worl forward u idiot we got euorop out of its dark ages and for the other fool ISLAM is not fake and juses said about he prophet comin after him + u invented raping as u are the ones who live for sex inslaved women by making her go naked every where for ur own poisond pleasure we protected women and dressed her up and never allowed men to abuse her100% is to protect ppl from been abusd then u may also see that what euorop invnted chiled rape and nudism i guess this is what u call not slavery this is the heart of slavry to force women to undress every where for money...+ the prophet was the Greatest creature ever lived when he marrid he married for orders from god except 2 times it was for him self (read more to know why where the orders ) ur ignorance filles u with racism i ont understand and dont beleave it can exist 90% of world problkems .,...how about aides u did that for example by making sex without limits we protected the world from such thing .....may GOD have mercy on on the ones infected  

4 Feb 2006 @ 19:12 by bushman : That , Shaykhoon
was in the past, you live in the past, we are in the "now", the world has changed for the better, what you going to do in the "now", knowing what the rest of the world knows, "now". Those intellegent people in your past, did great things, but you do those people no justice in the "now". You say we make our women do this and that, but in fact our women choose to do what they do on thier own, sure some are forced, and we have laws to deal with that. We don't stone our women for it. We don't cut off peoples limbs for it. Thats something only barbarians do. Whatever good things your past intelecuals did was for "not", seeing how you act/behave today/in the "now". You only speak and see the bad things others have done and then seek revenge for it. But even in our free world, you have the right to be uncivilized and have barbaric thinking. Here in America we have the right to be stupid if we so choose. But we arnt going to kill them for it, we arnt going to cut off a finger or a hand or stone you, for being you.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 19:27 by glyn hughes @62.255.0.4 : denmark
where were all these muslim rioters when europe was aiding pakistan after the earthquake? some have short memorys  

4 Feb 2006 @ 20:13 by jazzolog : For Those Struggling In Another Language
thank you for continuing to try communication here. I am a Christian, and while I don't spend a---err---hell of a lot of time at this site, you're welcome to have at me with stones and arrows. I'll reply as I catch up. However, it would be good to discuss a world problem, like cartooning, without a lot of religious baggage.

(Ultimately, of course, religion is not baggage but salvation...I know.)  

4 Feb 2006 @ 20:21 by Mina Guirguis @69.241.60.66 : Mohamed"greatest human ever"r u kidding
Are you kidding me? on what basses do you decide that MOhamed is the greatest ever human being? because he commanded armies and literally killed with his own hands....or are you going to say that it was in self defense. Is he great because he married multiple women...well that sounds quite like a usual hungary man for women anyway...what makes him great! what makes him better than Alexander the great...though I personally think that Alexander was much more sophisticated than Mohammed. Is he great beacuse he married a 12 year old girl..."I mean raped,"....is he great because in his biography, he ordered the killing of a woman who got pregnant out of wedlock? is he great because he behaved usually in a "normal," "expected," human behavior....? why is he great? I don't understand. Muslims are born in a sheltered societies were no one can question Islam or question its validity and they tell you since you are 2 years old that Islam and Mohammed is the greatest thing ever happened and then you expect it to be the truth, so you keep repeating it to your self and others. Just past November, a huge crowd of muslims attacked churches in Alexandria Egypt and they burnt the bible in the streets....NO ONE of the fellow 70 mil. Egyptians opened their mouth and condemend the incident or went in the streets demonstrating againest the act....supposedly, muslims believe in the bible to be the word of god....! what a joke. It is no doubt that there is a series illness with the collective muslims mind...wheather that is connected to the Quraan and what it preaches, I don't know...I could go far with this...but this is not the time. I belive Muslim societies should experience being quesitoned and their religion being examined whether they lke it or not...there is no room to baby sit couple of millions who cry for weeks because some dudes in a country couple of thousand miles away published a cartoon....I mean guys get a life.....what a pathetique crowd. I immigrated to America 12 years ago and the first day I arrived and was watching TV, I saw a program after the other about the validity of the bible from science and historical point of view...and people from religious background appear on TV and defend and others from scientific or history back grounds question and scrutinize.....did people go in the streets and burnt flags or threatened to kill and burn....even christians from the middle east who immigrated to America....don't do that.....or at least havent heard of any. Muslims are the only group today that produce such an attitude. What I am saying is, I am not expecting people to not to be angry....sure, you should get angry. Also, christians in the west do get angry or unhappy when they see movies depecting Jesus from a different point of view other than the usual...etc......but what I am talking about is the revertion to violence so fast every time they don't like something. If your prophit is really great...then relax and enjoy the ride with him in your life....and be sure than a dutch dudes cartoons should threaten his greatness........but I think you also don't believe he is that great...that's why youhave to force your insecurities and project them onto the masses.....you feel that you have to force your feelings and points of views because they are weak enough to stand alone and be convincing. Listen muslims, you are breaking all the bridges with this world as a whole a day after the other......sit down, relax...and think a little bit...use your mind just for once and look at the bigger picture and look how are most muslim societies nowadays.....it is a sad state. If I were you, I will be so embarressed. I don't even know how can you manage to wake up in the morning and manage to go by your day. It is Sad.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 20:21 by salam @82.198.3.154 : Mr. IslamsDying
Islamsdying, you have great hate to Islam, ur cheap vocab shows that. why? if a small groups is behaving in a wrong way somewhere in the world, this does not give you the right to insult prophet mohammad, Islam and Hijab in such a way. the level of Hekd and hate does not reflect that you are a real christian or even you beleive in God. Any way ur unbalanced, insane way of insulting islam is of no value based on your personlaitity. but i want to tell you that all the world have seen how mohammad el dora was killed by Israeli soldiers, he was fighting israeli, killig christians or doing sex,? ? ? all the world also have seen the 3 days old girl nour el3abed (1996- Lebanon) killed after an Israeli bomb, her head was cut. you consider those murders defensive acts becuase moslims are not civilized!!!!!! aha then alla yeshfeek min he2dak  

4 Feb 2006 @ 20:28 by fatima @217.219.53.254 : shamfull
A Newspaper in Denmark made a competition to draw a sketch of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). They received 100s of sketches & the news paper published 12 sketches in their publication for weeks in which they have shown Prophet wearing missiles and bombs and shown his sketches in bad positions. Muslims and Muslim organizations of Denmark had protested against this. But the government is defending the Newspaper and not even ready to hear plea of the local Muslims leaders.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 20:37 by Mina Guriguis @69.241.60.66 : To this Shaykhoon
I don't know what are you talking about......Did you ever know or read about homosexuality among gulf arab men....or bedouins in the desert or Egyptian deserts? Have you read that the head of the bedouin tribes would have a little male child for his pleasure? Do you not know about gulf arab men marrying 15 and 14 yr old girls who they bring from poor muslim countries? Are you blind or acting stupid? that is one. The second concerning Mr. MOhammed. You said that he married from orders from god.....you must be fucking kidding me.......so tomorrow I am going to say that god ordered me to marry 20 women. There is something seriosuly wrong with your arguments and a lot of your fellow muslims who I listened to as well. Granted that Mohammed supposedly had a special reltionship with what you call god......although some historic accounts claim that he suffered from mental illness...and I don't mean that as an offense, but this was 1400 years ago...and people didn't know mental illnesses. But anyway, imagine he was ordered by god, why should he marry a 12 year old girl? that is a little bit sick. He might have had a good impact on a tribal society liek the societies he came from in the arabia....since they were living a pretty uncivilized life....but he and his words brought uncivilized ideaology to a more civiized societies, like the Egyptians before the arab invasion, or like Iraq before the arab conqour, or the other nations outside arabia. Be more rationale...and have just a little courage. I doubt you can. i doubt you have the power to think freely and examine what you really believe in.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 20:57 by Paul @66.214.96.60 : Death to all fanatics! :)
I know I'm jumping in here way too late. But it's quite simple really. Continue publishing the pictures. Better still, have everyone start doing it, everywhere. Let a million mohammed pictures flourish. Diversify! It's about time that we all start sticking to our principles of being free. Free against any sort of censorship. I could care less what all the muslims think. if they don't like the picutre, DON'T FUCKING LOOK AT THEM!!! That's YOUR religion, not mine. They can all go to hell. And if for one moment, you think this is because I am of another faith.. NO. Same goes for any faith, religion, group or person who trys to do the same. As far as I am concerned any angry reaction from any group on any image is INSANITY, and should be treated as such. To respect that, is to respect someone with a gun to my head. Maybe, just maybe, in a life and death situation I will SAY what I have to do to survive, but genuine respect will NEVER COME. I am at a point that the whole muslim world can go kiss my ass. And yes, I deeply dislike Christian fundamentalism too, as well as Bush and American foriegn policy as well. The whole damn thing is insanity and I want no part of it.

Robert Anton Wilson is right, we are living on the planet of the apes!!  

4 Feb 2006 @ 21:16 by terrorist @146.186.210.40 : ..
go to the Hell idiots.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 22:51 by vibrani : Muslims
want to destroy modern life only because they're afraid we will prove their religion to be wrong. Muslim believe that anybody who fights Muslims is an enemy of Islam, and then it is only right that they be killed.

Go to CNN.com and see the new video of a new French documentary "Suicide Killers" on female suicide bombers. Another way Muslims are destroying women. This is a way women can feel equal to Muslim men! Very screwed up. They're actually convincing these women that God has announced that they will be the prettiest virgin in heaven after they die. They only live for this massive illusion, not for life on earth, so they don't give a shit about anything here. All these fake promises of rewards in heaven drive extremists to their terrorist activities and suicide. If they all hate life here on earth, why would they have a problem getting a little help over to the other side so innocent people don't have to die with them? The joke will be on them when they get to the other side, anyway.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:05 by Matt @69.122.71.16 : What Ever
LEt the Danish citizens of muslum faith boycott what ever they want. But when other nations concern themselves with a domestic problem then thats BS. No nation should freak out when something simple happens like this. This is a Danish problem of culture. And should not be on the world scale. Freedom shuld be free which means artisitic expression. Anyhow all will be fine in the end.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:06 by martin @62.252.224.13 : islam

If you believe in Islam good for you I don't so why should I give a shit about mohammed? he’s not my god (Muslims act like he's their god) I’m sick of having Islamic bullshit rammed in my face day in day out I don’t think I know the quran is wrong that is my opinion and is based on historical and scientific fact not some mumbo jumbo mysticism.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:09 by martin @62.252.224.13 : opps that reads wrong
If you believe in Islam good for you I don't so why should I give a shit about mohammed? he’s not my god (Muslims act like he's their god) I’m sick of having Islamic bullshit rammed in my face day in day out. I know the quran is wrong. and is notbased on historical and scientific fact but on mumbo jumbo mysticism.  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:45 by dian @71.112.73.234 : expensive free speech
prophet moh is my role model.his teaching was primarily about living peace and harmony with the rest of the world. so to depict him as a terrorist is deeply distressing. if the caricature was osama bin laden wearing turban and looks like a bomb, i gonna love it  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:52 by siti @71.112.73.234 : islam is the true religion
u dont have to debate about this. islam is the true and perfect religion. islam is the latest religion to improve all other religion. so God only accept islam.

YOU FUCCKING MORON. JUST WAIT THE JUDGEMENT DAY !  

4 Feb 2006 @ 23:55 by nazlı gül @85.99.80.33 : for our children
I am so unhappy now. coz I know going to came finish of word like this event.I want to look at this calicature. but i want to promise for my daughater better word.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 00:20 by Infinitynexus @82.192.160.50 : Is any religion true?..
Posted by Siti: "u dont have to debate about this. islam is the true and perfect religion. islam is the latest religion to improve all other religion. so God only accept islam.

YOU FUCCKING MORON. JUST WAIT THE JUDGEMENT DAY !"

Well.. what makes it perfect?.. what makes it true?.. i only see religions as a GUIDE book.. not a rulebook.. everyone percieves everything differently.

Oh and ye, im quite looking forward to judgement day.. ill be happy to known that were all going to extint, since we have no idea how to live in peace or harmony, thus we are not a sustainable species..  

5 Feb 2006 @ 00:35 by calvin @69.112.71.220 : if Islam is the perfect religion...
How come they just can't stop blowing up everyone that doesnt agree with there toughts. I can't remember hearing about catholics ot the like going around shouting JIHAD and destroying everything in itsd path. Why can't we just get along !  

5 Feb 2006 @ 00:40 by vibrani : LOL
the only true religion to improve other religions?! hahahahahaha How perverted that is. Believe in Islam, or else! hahahahaha NEVER!

Catholics - well, remember the INQUISITION? The Crusades? There is not one religion that hasn't used God for an excuse to murder those not of their religion.

Can't people get beyond the need to have religion?

You know how children are when they don't get their way? They can throw tantrums, become bullies and make threats, even beat up their parents if their parents don't put them in line, firmly. The actions of Muslims show they are little brats who don't know how to behave.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 01:26 by A DANE @80.164.65.4 : WAR AND DEATH
i have respect for the muslim, the christian and the other religions, but i have to respect for those lil kids in the middle east that like to be on tv so they look for reasons to make trouble. Those drawings might be offensive to some it´s your right to be offended, but those drawings wasen´t made by Denmark they were made by a paper, and dose not speak for Denmark, and those people yelling for bombnings are just insane and will find any reason to jump around like mentals. I got muslim friends before the drawings and i still have em after this, as i said i respect ur religion what ever you belive in it´s your right but i don´t belive in any of them and i NEVER will. And to the people daming the muslims for what is going on is wrong too, those peopledose not speak for the muslim religion but they speak for war and death and that is what they worship, those people are the lowest type of being this planet spit out and they will never be anymore till they gather there mind and act like humans.
Denmark will never apoligize when we done nothing wrong and to u people jumping, burning our flag and yelling for war and death FUCK YOU ALL  

5 Feb 2006 @ 02:58 by hamza @196.206.9.40 : No more insultes for any religion.
I’m a Moroccan MUSLIM, and i’m so glad of that.
I know that is my religion is the trut religion in the world, but i don’t have to oblige people in the world to belive that. What we hope like Muslim or juste like people hwo live in this earth is to be respected and to respect our religion, our belives; like all muslims people do, i belive in one thing that any arabian newspeper insult « Jesus-Christ » or « The holy Mary ». And i’m so sure they will never do juste because they knew some thing about the history and they respect the belives of the others, not like the speaker of « Jyllands-Posten » said we don’t knew that will touch muslims like that, i think a jurnalist must be something more clevar than taht, i don’t belive this is the trut, i think it’s a war against the Muslims in all the World .
What we hope like what i said is have some respect for us and for our religion and belives, and i think if the danmarkian people are realy like what they said clevar and civilist and cultured will let the Muslim live their lives ..
If you won’t people insult your GOD and your belives don’t insult their belives…  

5 Feb 2006 @ 04:25 by Arkady @203.59.198.116 : Religion
It's times like these I thank God i'm an aethiest :D  

5 Feb 2006 @ 04:52 by vibrani : LOL
amen to that, Arkady.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 07:31 by Traveller @84.73.140.67 : Understanding & Respectful
For some people on this board: What will you do, sitting in a bar, if somebody you dont know call you for example "guy" or "homosexual" without any reason?

For a western, the pictures are quiet normal cartoons. For muslim believers it can not be tolarete. But there are much more bad words, comments & pictures here and in the internet, which make me sad and it is just a shame for the western world. For the arabic world, mostly poor and living in hard condition is religion so import (my personal eyes - too important, like also some other religions). And then the western world is coming with this arrogant behaviour (money is commanding, military power, just our will is the way...) give the muslim part no space to react in a proud way. Be more Respectful to others!  

5 Feb 2006 @ 08:14 by Fred (albanian) @207.69.139.139 : muhammed cartoon
So Danes you have offended (so called prophet) muhammed. What's the big fucking deal on that? How many times have christians and jews been offended by muslims. For arabs as thick as they are they still could have been riding on camel backs. And also Denmard bares some of the responsibility , apparently they have gotten sick of muslims (at least I hope so) but until recently EU has called they immigration to Europe an CULTURAL ENRICHMENT HAHAHA. Same goes out to brits and french. For London subway bombings? YOU ACCEPTED THE EVIL YOURSELF BLAME NOONE ELSE. And the same thing for french rioters  

5 Feb 2006 @ 08:27 by vibrani : Muslims have a HUGE problem
they can't cope with any little thing that challenges their rigid beliefs. Keep going, that tight string of resistence will snap.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 08:29 by Fred (albanian) @207.69.139.139 : Arkady
Arkady wrote: It's times like these I thank God I am an atheist. But if you are an atheist why do you thank God since you don't believe on him?  

5 Feb 2006 @ 08:29 by vibrani : It's a joke Fred
hahaha That's what makes it funny. An athiest thanking God.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 10:40 by HUSSEIN @62.135.24.74 : TO Mina Guirguis
IT SEEMS IN UR WORDS THAT U ARE EGYPTIAN SO I THOUGHT U MIGHT BE WITH US IN THIS CASE CAUSE I'M EGYPTIAN MUSLIM AND WE LIVE IN EGYPT IN PEACE REALLY IN PEACE THE CHRISTIAN HERE ARE OUR BROTHERS AND FAMILY AND I DN'T THINK IF ANY PERSON IN EGYPT FALL IN THE STREET WE WILL ASK HIM FIRST IF HE IS MUSLIM OR CHRISTIAN BEFORE WE HELPING HIM TO GET UP I HAVE MANY CHRISTIAN FRIENDS WE EAT IN EACH OTHER HOUSES WE SIMPLY LIVE TOGETHER, U ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN ALEXANDRIA , FIRST ASK URSELF THESE QUES WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE ABOUT THE PLAY THAT WAS TALKING BADLY ABOUT ISLAM DID U EVER HEARED ABOUT ANY EGYPTIAN ARTISTIC HURT THE CHRISTIAN OR SAYING ANY THING BAD ABOUT THEM NO SIR U CANT FIND ONE,SECOND QUESTION WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE ABOUT MAKING A CDS ABOUT THIS PLAY ? ALL WHAT HAPPEN WAS JUST BECAUSE THE ELECTION NOTHING MORE, AND NO ONE BURNT UR BOOK SIR BECAUSE WE BELIEVE IN THE MOST OF THAT BOOK SIR,SIR ALL THE MOSQUES HERE DURING THIS TIME TALKED TO THE FEW PEOPLE WHOM TRYING MAKE THIS PROBLEM GROWTH ,BUT SIR WE WERE SHOCKED WE DIDN'T KNOW WHOM TO BELIEVE AND A FEW OF OUR CHRISTIAN BROTHERS DOING THIS BAD PLAY ABOUT US AND DURING THIS TIME ME AND MY CHRISTIAN FRIENDS WAS LAUGHING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED BECAUSE IT WAS ONLY ABOUT WINING ELECTION BETWEEN SOME PEOPLE AND WHY I DIDN'T SAW U TALK ABOUT THE EGYPTIAN MOVIE (I LOVE CINEMA)WHICH WAS MAD BY CHRISTIANS WRITER, DIRECTOR AND PRODUCER WHICH WAS THE FIRST MOVIE TALKING ABOUT THE EGYPTIAN CHRISTIANS AND HOW WAS THE RESPOND CAME FROM THE CHRISTIANS TRYING TO STOP SHOWING THE MOVIE, MAKE A LAW CASE IN COURT FOR THE MOVIE AND THE EGYPTIANS POP ASKED THE ALL CHRISTIAN NOT TO SAW THAT MOVIE IS THAT THE freedom of expression WHICH U ARE TALKING ABOUT AND WHAT HAPPENED WHEN A CHRISTIAN WOMAN WANTS TO BECOME MUSLIM THE CHRISTIANS START THE VIOLENCE AND DESTROIED THE CARS , THE BUILDING IN THE STREET AND HIT THE POLICEMEN AND WHEN THE POLICEMEN CAUGHT SOME OF THIS PEOPLE THE CHRISTIANS START TALKING ABOUT THEY ARE MINORITY IN EGYPT AND THEY WANT USA TO HELP THEM IN EGYPT WHAT U CALL THAT SIR EVEN UR POP DECLARE HIS ANGR ABOUT HOW THE POLICEMEN CAUGHT THOSE CHRISTIAN WHOM WAS DESTROING EVERY THING BUT AS RESPECT FOR THE POP THE POLICEMEN SENT THESE PEOPLE FREE WITHOUT ANY CHARGE AND THEY EVEN GAVE THE CHURCH THIS WOMAN AFTER SHE DECLARE SHE IS MUSLIM NOW TO CONVINCE HER TO BACK TO CHRISTIAN AND NO BODY KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENED TO HER AFTER THE CHURCH TOOK HER UNTILL NOW WHAT U CALL ALL THAT SIR WHERE THE FREEDOM U TALK ABOUT IS THIS THE FREEDOM U WANT THE FREEDOM ON UR WAY, PLEASE SIR WHEN U TALK JUST SAY THE TRUTH,U TALKED ABOUT THE WOMEN OUR PROPHET (PBUH) MARIED SINCE U ARE EASTERN U KNOW HOW WE SENSITIVE ABOUT WOMEN AND ALL THE EASTERN WAS ALWAYS LIKE THAT SO THE ARABIANS AT THAT TIME WOUDN'T MARRY THE DIVORCED, WIDOWED AND EVEN THE OLDER WOMEN SO SIR WHEN THEY SAW OUR PROPHET MARRIED FROM THEM THEY KNEW IT'S OK AND THEY BECOME NOT THAT MUCH SENSITIVE AND THE TRUTH SIR IF OUR PROPHET DIDN'T MARRY THAT KIND OF WOMEN THAT TIME IT WAS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM UNTILL NOW THAT'S NOBODY GOING TO MARRY THEM AND IF U TALKING ABOUT FREEDOM AND HOW WE SHOULD RESPECT THE WOMEN WHY U DIDN'T MENTION THAT THE CHRISTIANS WHEN THEY MARRY IN EGYPT THEY CAN'T GET DIVORCED EVEN IF THEY HATE EACH OTHER BECAUSE THAT IS THE CHERSH LAW IS THIS FREEDOM MAKING PEOPLE DN'T LIKE EACH OTHER TO LIVE FOREVER TOGETHER IS THIS FREEDOM ANSWER ME PLEASE SIR, SO SIR PLEASE DN'T SAY ABOUT OUR PROPHET (a usual hungary man for women) PLEASE SIR BE GENTLE AND ABOUT THE 12 YRS WOMEN I DN'T KNOW IF SHE REALLY WAS 12 OR NOT I'M NOT THAT GOOD AS U TRYING TO FIND A WEAK POINTS IN UR POINT OF VIEW IN ISLAM BUT THIS WOMAN SIR ONE OF THE GRATEST WOMEN IN ISLAM BECAUSE SHE TAUGHT THE MUSLIMS WOMEN EVERYTHING ABOUT THEY RELIGIONES BECAUSE OUR PROPHET COULDN'T BECAUSE HE WAS VERY SHY SIR .. WHEN U TALKED ABOUT homosexuality I DIDN'T SAW U TALKING ABOUT ONE OF THE EGYPTIAN POP WHO WAS HAVING SEX WITH THE CHRISTIAN WOMEN IN THE CHERCH AND HE ALSO RECORD IT IN A MOVIE YEAH THE WHOLE THING IS THAT FREEDOM IS THAT WHAT U WANT TO HAPPEN IN THE WHOLE WORLD TAKE CARE WHAT U ARE WISHING FOR SIR FINALLY I'M SO SORRY THAT I MINTIONED ALL THIS THINGS ABOUT EGYPTIAN CHRISTANS BUT I HADE TO ANSWER U BECAUSE I REALLY LOVE MY CHRISTIANS FRIENDS THE EGYPTIANS AND THE FOREIGN MAY GOD FOGIVE U SIR FOR WHAT U MADE ME SAY . FINALLY I HOPE THE BEST FOR U AND IF U ARE FROM EGYPT I HOPE TO COME AND VISIT IT SOOOOON .. GODBYE SIR  

5 Feb 2006 @ 11:22 by Finnish @82.181.27.45 : IMAGE OF A BOMB IN A TURBAN
Dear Dian and others

First of all I want to say Im sorry if I hurt someone with my message, but these are my thoughts.

I think you Dian are getting to the point! These cartoons which were published shows how I and probably many others in western world think about muslims who are ready to kill innocent people in a word of Islam. Even if the cartoon shows prophet Muhammed as the person who is carrying a bomb, my feeling is that the deeper thought of the cartoon is a man who oe woman is ready to make a suicide bombing in a word of Muhammed and Islam.

I have tried everything not to have this image in my mind. But I'm a simple person like most of us, I dont know everything about Islam. But what I know, that every day I have to read from the news how suicide bombers have killed innocent men, women and children, Christians and Muslims. And those who are responsible of these attacks are saying that they are doing it for Muhammed and Allah and Islam.

My point is:
-WHO SHOULD WE(everybody in the world) BLAME ABOUT THIS IMAGE ABOUT ISLAM?
Osama Bin Laden and the suicide bombers? Danish people? Someone else?  

5 Feb 2006 @ 13:14 by Infinitynexus @82.192.160.50 : hm
Well, these cartoons does add a little flare in a burning fire that some muslims are already feeling.. Welcome to the Muslim Witch Hunt the year 2006.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 13:58 by Arthor Rowan @84.43.30.11 : If God can't take a joke
why did he create so many and why are so many of them posting here?  

5 Feb 2006 @ 14:35 by Mohammad @82.198.3.154 : Re: Finish
Dear Finnish

I am following the conversation going on and I did not want to interfere in a discusion where some people use hate instead of logic to analyze the case. But As a muslim I want to tell you that you have all the right to rise the question of who to blame, and we muslims do that also. I see that yes, Osama Bin Laden is directly responsible,the acts of his group gave a wrong bloody picture about Islam, and this picture is not ours. However, you non-muslims people are also responsible to differentiate between people who are acting in the name of religion and in reality they have no reight to represent it, and between innocent people who at the end they are being hurt from west and from Bin Laden and Zarkawi. the cartoons on western papers considered prophet mohammad (salat Allah wa salamoho 3alayhe wa 3ala ahleh) in the same level as Osama Bin Laden but we true muslims we consider Bin Laden the first enemy to prophet mohammad. We (muslims) are being killed by people as Bin Laden since hundreds of years but we know who is Mohammad. Note that some historical books that are percieved as islamic books do include false and bad stories about prophet mohammad, those books are made by people as BinLaden.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 17:48 by Amer Masarweh @80.90.160.162 : You're all crazy!
This page is so hateful.. i am a Christian Arab and i have lived close to Muslims my whole life, Muslims are NORMAL PEOPLE! just like you and me. And to the Racist jewish guy who tried to write some crap in here my Mother is a Christian from Jerusalem and they ALL and i do repeat ALL believe Israel is the biggest threat to the world. Muslims don't do what you said , you can’t generalize all Muslims are terrorists because a very very small group of them attacked you ! Terrorists also comprise of people from all religions and all countries, but ur just using that crap to offend Islam.

Israel Occupied Palestine back in 1948 and has killed hundreds of thousands of Palestinians and is still killing up to our present day, so how can u criticize Palestinians for fighting to get their homeland back ? Even if they do it by the so called "Human Bombs", because that’s the only weapon they have! They don’t have the support of the U.S, they don’t get money and mass destruction weapons from the U.S, they don't own hundreds of nuclear heads! All of that said and u still calls Palestinians and Muslims terrorists?

All you people have been brain washed by stupid propaganda, wake up and smell the facts... Ur sitting in ur home safe and sound while we people live in fear for our lives each day... I live in Jordan which is a safe place at the moment but we share borders with Iraq and Palestine both of which have been destroyed by wars from the U.S and Israel, after all of that being said I want u people to think hard and try to define the word "Islamic Terrorist" again! If killing was done by U.S or Israeli Soldiers then it’s all right? If a person in Iraq or Palestine died while defending his Country and Honor then that is Terrorism?
I’ve got one word for you People... PROPAGANDA!!

Stop reading all these crappy articles.. In Islam it is forbidden to make drawings of the Prophet, and in my humble opinion I think that is 100% true and really respectful.. For hundreds of years not a single Muslim made a drawing of the prophet, and now a Danish news paper publishes insulting drawings of the prophet with a bomb in his hat? What’s the point of that? It only encourages more hate and more racism, I mean look at what it has done to this page!

My point is for us to find world peace we should stop classifying people based on their religion or their color or whatever.. Take Jordan my country for example; The Majority of the population is Muslims... the minor majority is Christians (mostly Arab Christians nor foreigners) and some other religions... We all live in peace and harmony and have the freedom of mind speech and the freedom to practice religion freely, that’s because we have respect for each other.. Respect not racism.

Amer Masarweh, Amman-Jordan  

5 Feb 2006 @ 17:56 by vibrani : You think Muslims are normal
and Israel is the greatest threat? Yeah, you're real credible spreading lies and hatred and then accusing others of doing that against Muslims. It isn't the Israelis going ape shit over some silly cartoons, burning embassies and calling to cut up Danes. Then you talk about peace and not racism when you're a blatant racist? Insane. All any person has to do is look at a map and see the areas occupied by Muslims and Arabs versus tiny Israel. Compare populations. We're not blind and we don't have to live by Islamic laws!  

5 Feb 2006 @ 18:20 by muslim @82.201.252.204 : mohammed cartoons
to all people of all religions,we,muslims,cant say any thing bad on other religions even between ourselves because god and our prophet teached us that we should respect other religions,god is capable of protecting the prophet, islam and muslims.and honestly i have ,with many other people,lost any particle of respect towards denmark and danish people.
religions are not to make jokes of.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 18:25 by vibrani : What crap
I've personally seen dozens of comics and films made in Arab/Muslim nations against Jews and Christians. Mosques call for the deaths of non-Muslims. Nice try, but we know what's going on.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 18:30 by daniel @80.88.153.206 : AttN: IslamIsDying
ATTN: IslamIsDying.

I sympathise with you. A muslem living in an islamic country! phew! immagine the persecution! I know of a small town in the backwaters of Africa called "Jos" in Northern Nigeria. It is an small enclave of African Christians surrounded by Islamic cities, and boy! those guys in Jos literary have to keep fighting for their lives. When Ben Laden Bombed America the Muslims in Jos came out to celebrate and of course killed some christians! When America went to Afghanistan to capture Ben Laden the muslims of course poured in to the street this time to protest and of course kill more christians in the bargain... you can immagine of course what happened when America went for Saddam.

So I symphatise with you living among the midst of fanatics. But I have one advise for you. you got to be a chamelion, that is hide ur opinions from them fanatics because i know they will go for u if they know you resent theur way of live and want them to change. So for God's sake pretend and stay Alive. D  

5 Feb 2006 @ 18:31 by vibrani : Yes
millions of Africans have been murdered by Muslim Arabs.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 18:51 by Finnish @82.181.27.45 : RE: Mohammad
Dear Mohammad

Logic and politeness are our only friends when we are talking about these kind of sensitive issues between different cultures and religions.

I try answer your message soon as possible, but now I have to read some school books for tomorrows exam.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 18:58 by daniel @80.88.153.206 : Attn : Mohammad Kanaan
Attn: Mohammad Kanaan

Ur views are quite morderate. U r the kind of muslim that will make the world a safer place, not fanatics like SHAYKHOON. However, some of your statistics and excerpts are selective - I understand though, since most of us who submit comments are equally biased. I have one question for ya: in a western country any man is free to change his religion, i.e a christian or bhuddist can become a muslim, what manner of death then does the Quoran prescribe for you if u chose to become a Christian?  

5 Feb 2006 @ 19:05 by daniel @80.88.153.206 : Attn: Mohammad Kanaan
Attn: Mohammad Kanaan!

We 've not heard from u for sometime now.No offense meant about my question above. May I use this opportunity to wish u several decades more of Wedding ANNIVERSARIES for ur family!!! My sincere regards to your wife & pls tell her not to stop u from using the computer! we all value your moderate and mature Comments!  

5 Feb 2006 @ 19:07 by Albanian @207.69.136.202 : a profile of Mumammad
the founder of islam has a stunning past of when he lived and the way he lived his own life is quite diffetent from his own teachings. Anyone curious can check it out @ www.nndb.com and type word "muhammad" you never again may wonder why islam is so violent. Long live Europe without arabs just as we are not living in their lands. What's wrong with asking nothing more then that. Europeans in Europe and arabs in arabia.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 19:15 by daniel @80.88.153.206 : CAN ANYONE ANSWER THIS QUESTION!
I need an answer to this urgent Q: In a western country any man is free to change his religion, i.e a christian or bhuddist can become a muslim, what manner of death then does the Quoran prescribe for you (a muslim) if u chose to become a Christian?  

5 Feb 2006 @ 19:21 by vibrani : Daniel
Here are a couple of resources for you. [link]

and
The Hadith (another "holy" book of Islam) says that Jihad, or holy war, is the second best thing to believing in Allah and his apostle (Muhammad).

Allah's apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and his Apostle." The questioner then asked, "What is the next?" He replied, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause." (Hadith vol. 1, no. 25).
The Hadith also says that Murderous Muslims could take the property of people they killed during a Jihad (there are different types of Jihad). In addition to killing infidels like Christians and Jews, Muslims are also commanded to kill anyone who leaves Islam (Hadith vol. 4, no. 260).

The Quran requires violence. Sura 9:5 says,

Fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every strategem of war.
Sura 5:33 records what is done to infidels who resist Islam:

Their punishment is...execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from the opposite sides, or exile from the land.
Muhammad also burned out eyes with hot irons (Hadith vol. 1, no. 234) and deprived people of water until they died (vol. 8, no. 796).

In Islamic countries you can be incarcerated and tortured without due process--this was all part of 7th century Arabia. The dictator could do whatever he wanted to. I read an article in the Washington Post about Sadaam Hussein's son. They said that he was a terror. One night he raped a woman and when she complained, he killed her. He did stuff like that all the time and one night he got shot up getting out of his car and was paralyzed.

And here [link]  

5 Feb 2006 @ 19:25 by daniel @80.88.153.206 : To The Albanian
Yeah Albanian. I Just read the link u recommended. Could c the dude lived quite a playboy life. And a nine year old baby! Phew! I believe these statistics are fake. I thought only 4 wifes were recommended how come he had 9. Did he divorce them? Pls reassure me these stats are not fabricated.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 19:32 by daniel @80.88.153.206 : Impressive Answer Vibrani
Thanks Vibrani:

Your answer is quite impressive and enlightening, and so was the link u recommended. it settles an argument I and my fellows round are having. Once again Thanks for the prompt and clarifying answer!  

5 Feb 2006 @ 19:37 by albanian @207.69.136.202 : to daniel
haha like you close to a billion muslims also wished those stats are fake but that is the real foundation of islam about the site is an international web site and tracks people from all over the world and 100% accurate.You can check it out yourself by researching for many other people on the site. As far as muhammed I knew it for 11 wives and one of them to have been 9 years old but now for 13.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 19:38 by vibrani : You're welcome Daniel
It's good for everyone to know, too.

Here's my answer to the entire issue with Muslims - it's the big last song from "Hairspray." Apply this to our freedom and joy of life.

TRACY
You can't stop an avalanche
As it races down the hill
You can try to stop the seasons, girl
But ya know you never will
And you can try to stop my dancin' feet

But I just cannot stand still
'Cause the world keeps spinning
'Round and 'round
And my heart's keeping time
To the speed of sound
I was lost til I heard the drums
Then I found my way

TRACY & LINK
'Cause you can't stop the beat

Ever since this old world began
A woman found out if she shook it
She could shake up a man
And so I'm gonna shake and shimmy it
The best that I can today

'Cause you can't stop
The motion of the ocean
Or the sun in the sky
You can wonder if you wanna
But I never ask why

And if you try to hold me down
I'm gonna spit in your eye and say
That you can't stop the beat!

You can't stop a river
As it rushes to the sea
You can try and stop the hands of time
But ya know it just can't be
And if they try to stop us, seaweed,
I'll call the n - double-a - n - p!
'Cause the world keeps spinning
'Round and 'round.

SEAWEED
'Round and 'round

PENNY
And my heart's keeping time
To the speed of sound

SEAWEED
Speed of sound

PENNY
I was lost till I heard the drums
Then I found my way

PENNY & SEAWEED
'Cause you can't stop the beat

PENNY & SEAWEED, TRACY & LINK
Ever since we first saw the light
A man and woman liked to shake it
On a Saturday night
And so I'm gonna shake and shimmy it
With all my might today
'Cause you can't stop
The motion of the ocean
Or the rain from above
They can try to stop the paradise
We're dreaming of
But they cannot stop the rhythm
Of two hearts in love to stay
'Cause you can't stop the beat!

EDNA
Tracy, I have a little something
I'd like to add, if you don't mind.
You cant stop my happiness
'Cause I like the way I am
And you just can't stop my knife and fork
When I see a Christmas ham
So if you don't like the way I look
Well, I just don't give a damn!

EDNA & ENSEMBLE
'Cause the world keeps spinning
'Round and 'round
And my heart's keeping time
To the speed of sound
I was lost 'til I heard the drums
Then I found my way

EDNA & WILBUR & COMPANY
'Cause you can't stop the beat

Ever since this old world began
A woman found out if she shook it
She could shake up a man
And so I'm gonna shake and shimmy it
The best that I can today

'Cause you can't stop
The motion of the ocean
Or the sun in the sky
You can wonder if you wanna
But I never ask why
And if you try to hold me down
I'm gonna spit in your eye and say
That you can't stop the beat!  

5 Feb 2006 @ 20:39 by omar @68.252.69.75 : rude americans
freedom of speech stops when you're insulting the best man ever created by God. i dont care if you christians take it as a joke when someone insults jesus or draws a funny cartoon of him. the difference between us and you is that we actually take our religion seriously. christian religion is watching the 700 club and going to sing at church one day a week. no wonder you can joke about it..  

5 Feb 2006 @ 20:40 by vibrani : hahahahaha
funny.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 21:00 by Labib @62.219.56.120 : HAIL DENMARK!!!
HAIL DENMARK FOR WHAT THEY'VE DONE! IT SHOULD'VE BEEN DONE A LONG TIME AGO BECAUSE IT IS THE TRUTH!!!!
HAAAAIL DENMARK!
I ADORE YOU FUCCKISLAAAAAM!!!!!!!!!!!!
COWS, PIGS, BASTARDS! FAGS! FUCCKKKK ISLAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMM
HAILLL DENMARKKKK
I DONT KNOW WHY HITLER DIDN'T CONTINUE AND DESTROYED ISLAM!!!
DAMN USA! WHY DID YOU STOP HITLER FROM DESTROYING THEM!  

5 Feb 2006 @ 21:13 by vibrani : The Muslims
rioting in Lebanon were so stupid they didn't even know where the Danish Consulate was, so they attacked and destroyed EVERY building on the block. Throwing out computers, setting fires. Acting worse than any animal.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 21:49 by FINNISH @82.181.27.45 : Re: Amer Masarweh
Dear Amer Masarweh, Mohammed and others

Im not sure did you Amer answered my message when you where talking about terrorists and propaganda? But I hope you don't judge me because of one message. (Judge me after ten messages:) I have much more to say, but its hard to say everything in one short message. There are always many different views and perspectives.

One of my points was also that people are simple and see many things black and white, which it never is. People shouldn't see things black and white but they do, because they are just simple human beings. The mass off information coming to peoples eyes is so wide that it's impossible to see all the sides. That incompleteness of every humans is one of the problems of course.

About PROPAGANDA: When Im reading these news and articles of "human bombs in the name of Allah" killing innocent Muslims and Christians, I also read news how Israel and US have killed people with missiles, how US attacked to Iraq more likely beacause of oil, how George W. Bush is saying stupid things, how Palestinians live in poverty and in the world of anger being afraid of their lives every day. Now these are all in the same Finnish newspaper. Is that all PROPAGANDA? I think that is the freedom of speech. I don't think there is right for anyone to kill innocent people. If someone blames me for thinking it's justified to kill people by US or what ever, he or she is very wrong and insults me. (I will write my opinion about freedom of speech and responsibilities later)

About the Cartoons: I didnt know anything about them before this week. I found them a bit insulting to Islam also, but for me those are just cartoons and didn't have much influence to My opinions. When I'm comparing the Cartoons and hundreds of people being killed every day no matter what religion they are. It's not hard for me to choose which one has more influence to my opinions or which one insults more the humanity.

Jihad al-Momani, head journalist of al-Shihan(Jordan newspaper) you are the greatest hero in this madness.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 21:58 by john @83.70.243.91 : Mohamed vrs Denmark

While its is true to say that not all Muslims are terrorist , it would appear that most terrosits are in fact Muslim.

this begs the question Why?????

It would alo appear to the honest bystander that Muslims want to have all their own way , they are happy to like in the West , but yet insist on trying to make the west take on the ways of Islam, the obivious answer would be to stay where ever they feel comfortable, but if that place is the west , they should be happy to accept western values, after all, westeners do not expect to change the values of the east( and yes the spanish inquisition is a few years ago now).
The eastern muslims are ready to accept western money as Aid(Pakistan Earthquake and the sumnami, but not the western values that created the money in the first place, all seems a little Alla Carte.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 22:09 by Josef @213.66.175.83 : Mohammed fucker
Fuck mohammed that son of a bitch!  

5 Feb 2006 @ 22:14 by FINNISH @82.181.27.45 : LAYOFF of the Head Journalist in Jordan
Is the layoff of head journalist Jihad al-Momanis from al-Shihan(Jordan newspaper) representing the freedom of speech and free mind in Jordan?
(Jihad al-Momanis was layoffed after he tried to calm down the muslim people and asking them to be reasonable in this issue, even if he was also hurt because of the cartoons)  

5 Feb 2006 @ 22:19 by vibrani : It's really simple
If one is religious, then respect all religions equally. It doesn't mean you have to agree with them, or that you can't critcize them. But it can't work with only one religion bitching about it and demanding to control all the other religions in the world. If you want to be respected, then respect others. It will take a monumental effort to get it through to Muslims that they're not the only or best religion in the world, and that their so-called prophet is the best and last. It's absurd and needs to change if there is to be any movement towards getting along with others. If your god or prophet is the best FOR YOU, great. Keep it that way. Keep it to yourself and enjoy it. But don't demand everyone else has to see it the same way, and no one is free to express their thoughts and feelings or artistic creations. That does mean Muslim nations might have to start becoming freer societies - but if they're so convinced they've got "the religion" what are they so worried about? Why not let people choose for themselves? I think this matter can force a worldwide agreement. Of course, there are athiests, and people such as myself who do not believe in any religion but still believe in the Source and we deserve respect, too.

I think the big question is if Muslims as a whole can accept that there are other beliefs in the world and some don't agree with Muslim's views and they don't have to die because of that!  

5 Feb 2006 @ 22:43 by Amer @82.194.62.23 : Westerns are unrational
what is the problem in being a terrorist? do any one of you know why killing people is bad? Why you westerns don't be a terrorists also (actually you are the terrorists)? Why you don't kill your self and destroy the world with you? Aren't you free? Oh, you are not free, you are just unable to do that, right? or you don't like that? why? why you don't like to be killed and destroy the world with you? you have manners? Are manners good? or bad? I dare you answer this.
What is exstremist? is he the one who is not saying what commons are saying? or he is at the edge? but how could you know he is at the edge? can you proof that you are really seeing the whole thing to know who is in the middle or at the edge? and is it good to be at the middle, start, or end?
What is the problem in being fundamentalist? do you think fundamentals things are not correct? or not existing? can you proof logically that to be fundamentalist is completely/always wrong?
Actually westerns are just talking. They never found any rational answers for those questions but that didn't deny them talking. They talk as if they do understand what they are talking about. They even commited a war against terrorism and after killing many many innocent people they started to ask what is terrorism.
What is the problem if I am a terrorist muslim? does that make me bad? any proof?
Actually you are really messed, and really lost. Good and bad is really your biggest headache. But you don't want to admit your lost, you don't want to admit your ignorance about what is good and what is bad, you try to find stupid asnwers to feel some confidentiality. Be sure that westerns who talk without using their mind will be punished in the hell in a way you will never ever wish it to you most hated enemy. Prepare your self, because you are a human who chose to be an animal. You talk before thinking. You never tried to understand. Noam Chomsky has great statement which says: "It is very hard to mess that westerns are hypocrates, It really needs much great education to mess that".
So if you think that this so huge world was created for you to play like monkeys and have fun with the religion of creator of the world, then you can expect the really big ugly hell special for people like you. The creator who created this world and showing us his power is earthquakes and hurricanes actually is going to show you bad people the real punishment. Do you think I am stupid and close-minded? I dare you answer my questions rationally. You even don't know what is rational thinking and to be sure to be rational. You just talk, and some of you are killing, and when they are being killed they say to others "Terrorists", so what?
Bear in your mind that, terrorizing the enemy is very known way to get victory. and westerns are doing that every day with each others. And every one of them is saying about the other "Terrorist".
So what is the problem in being terrorist? It is actually better than being western who really love to be less than animals. Go and see how westerns do suck each other's ass, they just beat pigs in that.
Do you think you are civilized human beings? Actually you are not, you are just advanced clever donkeys, but mindless.
Do you think I am saying this because I hate westerns? Actually that is not true. I only hate the bad people of westerns, because I know many who are really so great, and many who converted to Islam after a little thinking, and many are very educated and just by talking few words with me. But who ever talk about terrorism and don't define it rationally is really a pig. He is really dishonest. He really deserve to have bad life with bad after life. Prepare your self, you know that, you feel that you are going to be punished, but you are not free, you chose to be a slave to your ill-mind/stupid desires.
Remember that, every word I said her is not a try to insult you, because you are really worse than that. It is just a try to clean a mirror of you, and show you your self honestly.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 23:14 by tom@hotmail.com @83.70.218.37 : Mohammed /Denmark
Amer.

You seem to have lost the plot and have taken leave of your sense again.
the only thing you are sure of is that you are correct,and every one else is wrong, we all live in the 21st century and we need to adapt to the requirments of our time , and not continue to dwell in the dirth and filth of ages past.
When its comes to values and beliefs , may be iam wrong , but do its ok to cut off the hands and heads of people , , just incase your still confused , its not ok, and any one who thinks it is ok , is an animal, and animals do get the same respect as people.
Can god not mean love,and not war and revenge and terrorism.
You have your god , I have my mine ,and yes some one is wrong , but so what .
Suppose we are all wrong ?????? Can you prove you are right, we all have religous books , but remember never refused ink.

Get off the stage , you might be correct , but then again you might not.
As they say in my country you could be a long time dead before you find out.
 

5 Feb 2006 @ 23:15 by name @83.5.213.40 : The Polish Pope was also shown in a funn
funny scatch and we also were angry at the people who did it but come on to burn Embassies...... and kill people ........ Denmark is a crap country so they are trzing to feel good.  

5 Feb 2006 @ 23:18 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : Ok, maybe it's time to take a step back
Hey, guys! Maybe it's time to take a step back and cool down a bit. Right now we are all throwing pies at each other and it's not really doing any good, now is it?
I think that what many people forget is that in Denmark, this is not a question of religion. Denmark, and the other Scandinavian countries (I'm Swedish myself), don't really have a religion. Yes, the Scandinavian countries were christian for centuries, but now, 2006, most people living here don't really have any religion at all. Instead, our freedom of speech is a standard that we live by, it is even written in our laws. We are a democracy, and we believe that everybody has a right to speak their opinion. And with speak I mean speak, not resort to violence if the other party does not agree with you. That means that we truly believe that we have the right to say what we want. It may not always be the smartest thing to do. I mean, I have the right to call my neighbor ugly and stupid, but why would I do that? It's rude and not productive at all. In that sense I truly think that it was UNNECESSARY to publish those pictures.
My point is that this is not only a question of religion. There are many muslims in the world, who may be hurt, but accept that we don't share their point of view. I think that the people who act violent and burn embassies and stuff, only use their retorted views on religion as a way to get power. I don't think that a true muslim would do that. From what I have heard, the Quraan really speaks of peace and respect, and anything else is just tradition and culture and a hunger for power, not the true religion. So no more pies thrown on muslims in general, or the western world people in general. It's not productive and it only raises more hate and segregation.
I think the key word here is RESPECT. The western world needs to respect and open their eyes to what a big part the religion plays in a muslims life. And the muslim needs to respect that not everybody live by their religion. The Scandinavian freedom of speech is our religion, so to speak. That needs to be respected as well.
And finally, DO by all means condemn the violence that guys like bin Ladin preach. For all of those who follow him: If you reach into your hearts, can you not see that all he wants is power, and more power? He's not interested in following true Islamic rules, he just wants power.
And sincerely, am I not right? What good does it do to hate each other? It will only drain your energy from doing peaceful stuff like practicing your religion or travel in space. Come on all of you, muslims, christians, ateists or whatever you are. Just cool down and enjoy each others company. Maybe you can learn something from listening to the other side. Who says your views are the right ones. We have no way of knowing, now do we???  

6 Feb 2006 @ 00:06 by bushman : Ok :}
I supose if you put it that way, I have no choice but to allow my government to do as it will, life with a dark heart or a light heart, dosnt matter. It's just life on this planet, so bombs away?. So your saying you dont want us to tell our goverments to stop bombing you into submission? That its Allahs will that you be and whoever is near you to be nuked? I'm a man of 2 hearts, I can see the good in the bad and the bad in the good. Is fine with me, the planet will recover just fine, just like last time, 10,000 years ago a nuclear war waged between India and quite posably your forefathers people, look at it, both sides were obliterated, back to the stone age, yet here we all are here today, again, fighting the same fight. Is fine with me, the planet will survive. Life will go on.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 00:33 by Khayati Hamza @81.192.21.66 : you are absolutely right

Realy you was right, in all that forum i find something true. I don’t mean to insult any one here ; just what i watn like all the muslims people in all the world is live with christians and jewish in peace, if your are realy want know what happends in Palestine you must to lisning to the palestinien people not to the isralien medeas. About 3 people die every day, is that not a terorrism ? or terorrism is a world juste for the actes of Muslims, u must realy know that people hwo make bambes of thameselves want juste vagence for their Families, so is that a terorrist ? i don’t think so, we must to be more clevar on those things. U know their is so many anti-christians in the World they was christians but they didn’t find what they want in this religion, and there is too much inbelivers for the christianity. in the christianity it’s legal to drink and smoock and fuck vergins befor mariage and cheate is that a good religion ? islam tell us to not drink to not smook to not fuck any girl juste if she is your wife to not cheate ours wives and if you think juste some you gonna find that is good for people not agenst there health and there lives so that and many oder facts don’t proove that the islam is good for people, from that i don’t want any one think that i’m telling that for make people belive in islam or any thing like that, no what i want is juste some respect for this religion and don’t take from the lignes what is happend from 1427 years old for fighting and killing people. We still remember that U.K, France…. And many oder contries was in wars and they kill inocente of muslims and oder people, so can we juge theme and tell that the christianity tell to people to kill each oder ? i don’t think so. So befor juge people for murder you must find out first why. and please don’t confiause what is happend from 1427 y.o in 579 and now in 2006. i think we all live in this earth so we must to live in peace juste befor you ask muslims to stop « the actes of terorrist » like u call theme, stop the actes of juish, and Americans they kill people in Iraq and they are christians. is that the christianity ? to kill people in his home? and when he defend his home you call him terrorist. No befor you speak you must to think first.

In all of that i didn’t mean to insult crechianity juste because we respest what people belive in, what i want to make here is juste a comparison betwen those two reliogions we want to live in peace but that can happend juste if you too want that pleace don’t make those things for have peace in the world i think that every one want that if some want the war that hwo we gonna call him terorrist…

Khayati Hamza
morocco  

6 Feb 2006 @ 00:34 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : Read up on history
Bushman, my dear. I think you need to read up on history. Nuclear war 10,000 years ago? Honey, I don't know which history books you have been reading, but maybe you should try another one.
But I do have to agree on one thing, whether you meant it or not: Life will go on, and the planet will recover. We are just a piss in Mississippi. With that in mind, why bother arguing in the first place. RESPECT, once again!  

6 Feb 2006 @ 00:38 by khayati hamza @81.192.21.66 : sorry
i was speaking about the article of "Westerns are unrational"  

6 Feb 2006 @ 00:49 by hamza @81.192.21.66 : we want peace in the world
peace is that what any one want;

we want peace in the world

nous voulons la paix dans le monde

wij willen vrede in de wereld

desideriamo la pace nel mondo

wir wünschen Frieden in der Welt

мы хотим мир в мире

deseamos paz en el mundo  

6 Feb 2006 @ 01:00 by vibrani : For those of you who can
please read my article on this topic - it's my own suggestion for resolutions.
[link] It's supposed to be viewable to the public, so if you have any difficulty getting there or reading it, please let me know here. Thanks.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 01:12 by bushman : For Lisa:
The truth is stranger than fiction.
[link]  

6 Feb 2006 @ 01:35 by hamza @81.192.21.66 : help
i ahve a difficult to get there please tell how ?  

6 Feb 2006 @ 01:41 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : For bushman
Since I didn't live 10,000 years ago, I don't know what really happened then. But I certainly know that you have to be critical of everything you read before you take it to your heart. Therefore, I think it can be smart look for more sources of information before you decide to believe in anything.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 01:47 by xxxxx @62.72.230.6 : mohammed can suck my cock
Congratulations to the muslim on fucking up your image to the rest of the world, well done retards, that really helped.. I actually respected muslims like most other religions so far, aslong as you keep your sick islam to yourself. But you've gone too far this time (and this is the opinion of most of the people i know too).

oh and.. FUCK MOHAMMED why do you worship a fictional character that never existed? so many human lives lost because of fucking religions (especially islam lately, and christianity hundreds of years ago) is it so hard to simply not believe in fairy tales which can't be proved.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 01:48 by hamza @81.192.21.66 : thank you
thank you so mach lisa for this, it absolutly true and i'm with you. every one how think must to be on that point of view.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 01:55 by hamza @81.192.21.66 : i wish God forgive you
juste because i'm a respactful muslim i cannot insult "jesus" it's too easy if u think some but in islam we don't right to insult any religion in the world, and if you are a good reader you gonna read that please don't insult our prophet. And if you don't belive him that's not a crim it's ur mind not mine, but don't insult islam or profet.
like what any one here can see i want to speak from eason and logic i didin't insult ur religion but u did. pleace don't do that again .  

6 Feb 2006 @ 02:08 by Finnish -> Tom @82.181.27.45 : Media
Dear hamza

I just want to say that when I'm talking about the situation of Palestinian, I don't know everything about it, how could I? But when I gather information, I'm not lesening Israeli media. I'm lesening the journalists who are on nobodys side, I'm lesening of the interviews from Palestinian people. I even criticize those documents before talking. And that is also why Im in this web page: to learn to understand other point of views and to share my opinions with others.

About who is a terrorist. When someone kills innocent men, women and children, by missiles or bombs, or what ever way, or what ever reason, no matter who is doing those murders, that person is a terrorist and a criminal against humanity. Christian or Muslim. This is my opinion.

People here, as we all can see, have very different cultural and religional backgrounds, and very different styles to communicate, so lets try to remember that. We don't know much about each other. I apologize if I say some things wrong, too direct or unpolite way. We all have a lot to learn from each other.

I change my name to Tom 'cose I dont want to represent every Finnish.
Peace and Respect:)  

6 Feb 2006 @ 02:09 by pfwajowfoij @62.72.230.6 : haha
In scandinavian countries even the christians makes jokes/insults about jesus because they have a sense of HUMOR which you obviously lack.. We have the right to make fun of mohammed mahmud whatever you stupid fucks worship, why care? you're the ones who make a small pointless thing this "big" and destroy your reputation, not denmark. In fact i find a bit funny how you muslims react, it's so chilidish from a westerners eyes, a bit like kid's fighting over something in kindergarten.

You muslims simply have issues understanding that most people outside muslim countries don't give a FUCK about religions, why would they? they live on just as fine being atheist (even better).  

6 Feb 2006 @ 02:17 by albanian (indo-european) @207.69.139.7 : why so much trouble from muslims?
Unfortunately thanks to their high birth rate muslims have made islam the fastest growing religion on the World, and West is still to see their darkest side. Since Sept 11 there have been numerous terrorist attack in the Western Europe, the reason why they don't do them in USA is simple they beat the shit out of them , lock them for good in famous prisons, even their families do not know where their "loved terrorists" are. In spain was 11th of marchin London subway bombings. But is not only Europe that suffers from them. Trouble is wherever muslims live, from Philippines to Morocco, there are hundreds of terrorist organisations that are being funded from immigrants in western Europe. Europe just does not get it.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 02:21 by jock @80.176.140.38 : cartoon
The majority of people who are strongly supportive of the right to publish these cartoons are I believe not christians but secular citizens of democratic countries which mostly have christian traditions and history. The vast majority of those who are against the right to publish these cartoons are people who would describe themselves as muslims who either live in states which are muslim theocracies, sultanic dictatorships or those struggling for deserved independance viz. Palestine and Iraq. Because there is little or no free media in most of these countries the proletariat (not used as an insult) and it would appear many of the 'educated' elite tend to think of the citizens of Europe as christians and therefore when an insult is made on the islamic faith it is a crusade against muslims. The truth is the crusade is against bigotry, hypocrisy and grovelling genuflection (insult intended)from christians, jews, hindus, seikhs, muslims, scientologists, book burners and reactionary war mongers from rich and poor countries.
You will not find cartoonists and satirists burning, bombing or trying to ban those of you who have your faiths, but those who seek to destroy the right of others to think and express ideas deserve to be lampooned whatever their 'sacred idols' are. Perhaps those who are offended could take up the pen and show us their thoughts without invoking murderous deeds.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 02:22 by bushman : Accually Lisa:
These writen texts are just as sacred as any of the other religions, so? We see the epic battle over and over. Over and over, brother against brother. Maybe going by the Mayan calender, you could say this battle has been going on for over 120 million years. Tick, tock, goes the biological clock, shall mankind waste its last fleeting moment of awarness and technical acheivment, to the blindness of his true nature? Well, at least we can all agree that their is/was a Creator of all things. :}
[link]  

6 Feb 2006 @ 02:37 by Jock @80.176.140.38 : danish pastries
I'm trying to think of some other good uses for Lurpak - any ideas?  

6 Feb 2006 @ 02:41 by hamza @81.192.21.66 : think more
Daer albanian

I know that there many atheist outside muslim countries, like what you said, but give a dumb about our religion and i think u and the others must to respect that .

When u said In scandinavian countries even the christians makes jokes about « jesus » i think it’s teir Gods not ours so they have reason if tehy find it’s anything, but they don’t any reason to speak about the oders belives and sais that’s to is our right, and when muslims speak they said they are stupids or something like this. What i want to tell you man it’s our religion and we will die if it’s nececery and we are men realy men hwo don’t have afred of die but you, you want juste live like something not like a honorabl humain live free but you didn’t borned juste like that. From millions of years and people think it’ gonna me gods for this world it’s cannot creat him self juste like that, and now you telling their is no god. You must to tink more on that. If you think juste some, we said that many gods or demons like belial, satan…. Comande this world don’t you think if it right this world must have his end from millions of years, don’t u think that they gonna fight about hwo comande this world or we gonna find some one hwo said i want human like this and the oder want theme in oder way, and one want be see wather in this pleace but the oder not, that what we dont find their is no change on that, juste that will proov to you that is a one GOD hwo comande this earth and if you want to make shure hwo is that one u can juste visite this website [link]
We are not alone one this earth their is a GOD and juste one if you ask him to forgiv you he’ll do be cereful maybe some day you’ll die and you’ll find out when everything is gonn, yeah their is a GOD
We lost every thing, befor this day buy some books and site and read something may be we’ll belive about GOD. And if you don’t belive in him juste don’t insult him.
That’s for your good and do anything you want, remember i didn’t tell you anything bad juste read about ISLAM that’s all be a koran or go to a mokey they give it to you free and read it, if he said truth belive in it id you find it lie let it it’s to simple .  

6 Feb 2006 @ 04:09 by Amer @82.194.62.23 : Westerns are unrational Cont.
To: tom@hotmail.com

Did I say I am right? But why you didn't answer any of the questions?
My brother tom, it is not great thing to act before know and understand very well what you are going to do.

Think it it like this:
If you are an animal, then you have no ability/interest in thinking in why, or what, but you only interested in how. When humans train dogs they don't tell them what, but only how, and they are using the already available motivations in dogs to make them interesting in doing something.
If you are a smart chimpanzy you will have the ability to distinguish things apart, and that is "what". But, never ever till now we recorded in any linguistic study that, animals asks "Why".
Actually that is the main question behind the super nature of human being comparing to animals.
So far, who ever do ask "why" repeatedly and find answers in rational way to the root of something unquestionable, is going to convert to Islam.
These questions had not been answered completely rationally except in Islam.
For exapmle: Why the people insulted Muhammad? the media answer is very irrational, which it is: They have freedom of speach. That is very ridiculous. Freedom is not a cause for any thing, it is a negative arguments which say: no contrains. THose people talked about Muhammad not because they are free, but because they hate him some way and have no respect to him as a human being, or maybe they don't respect any human being or any muslim.
But who said that they are free? they are really ridiculous. Freedom of speach is not something possible to be certain about. If you think in it rationally you will know that, freedom is unknown. You cannot know if you are free to think, free to speak, free act. You just assume the inexistence of contrains/consequences. You think you can think freely, actually you need to prove that you have no constrains in thinking, and that is a negative argument.
If you think you are free to speak or act, you actually have no way to know that you will not be punished, but just you see the history and see that no one so far was punished for insulting Jesus then there will not be any punishement to insult Muhammad. You knew now that is not the same case, and Danes are really facing big problem regarding their business, and the paper apologized. That why people who don't think correctly will never be contstructive.
Again, thinking very well and spending your time thinking is just the most accurate expression of humanity. Especially "why". That why you and every one else, muslims or non muslims, are really insulting their humanity/religion if they did things without knowing why to the root of some proved unquestionable thing.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 04:37 by Amer @82.194.62.23 : Westerns are unrational, Replies
To Finnish -> Tom @82.181.27.45 : Media

You are wrong. Terrorist is not the one who kill for what ever reason, but he is the one who kills or do any other so called criminal act to influence people to do or not to do something without their soul satisfaction about "why".

Crime is samething relative. Who killing innocent palestinians is a hero in Israel and USA and criminal out of Israel and USA.

By they way, who said that killing is always bad? even innocent people? Actually people don't know what is good and what is bad, they mix things up. They mix morality with good/bad judgement. You could feel that it is not justice to kill other people who didn't do any thing, but that does not mean that is bad. You just don't like it. But actually it could be very good to kill all the human being. Religion has the only role to tell us what is good and what is bad, because it is giving us the information about the future. Every jewish/christians/muslim believe that Allah once asked jewish people to kill themselves, but he forgived them after that. So, why killing is always bad? Actually I really think it is bad but that because I am a muslim, and I know why. But why atheists think it is bad? Actually they are telling that for political purposes, and they have no way to know if it is good or bad.

To 6 Feb 2006 @ 02:09 by pfwajowfoij @62.72.230.6 : haha

Actually you are so wrong, and this media storm is going to make much people to convert to Islam. Islam is always going to be spreaded more and more when is criticized. Because simply it is the truth. Americans was converting to Islam in a rate about few thousands per year. and after 9/11 they just was converted in multiple times of that rate. It is actually your mistake to insult Islam. It is your stupidity that you think you are free from consequences. Be sure that, the cause behind every honest people to not convert to Islam is just the ignorance of what Islam is. So far, many people converted because of me. I am an arabian highly educated person. So far, found no human being could stand against my proofs. Many people just was so surprised about how they was so stupid to miss the truth. It is very hard to miss the truth, but dishonesty is so widely spreaded among the westerns. But remember, you could still have the chance of freedom to extract your self from your dirtyness.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 05:05 by Amer @82.194.62.23 : What is Islam?
I just want you guys to bear in your mind that, Islam means: To surrender to the truthness.

This is very valid definition of Islam regarding the doctrine of Islam itself.
Actually Allah has many names in Islam, and one of them is: The Truthness.

So, if you are searching for truth honestly and found it with rational thinking through anything else other than Islam you actually can destroy Islam completely. Just say your proofs, and it could be surprising to you but Allah does not accept muslims who don't know why they are muslims rationally.

The Quran insult every non-rational human being. It is more than 90 times the Quran tells us about mind and thinking to be the way of Allah.

Islam is not the last divine religion, but it is the first. Abraham was a muslim. Because he asked him self why and who, and then he commited to the unified creator of the world as the only cause of this rational world, and that is reported in the Quran very clear.

Be sure that, if you are searching for truth honestly and without wasting time, and found truth anywhere other than Islam then be sure that, Islam tells you to keep the good work. Stay at what you found as a truth. Allah is going to award every honest human being who was honest in his search and was not lazy. But if you are denying the unseen without proofs, then prepare your self for the hell. Be careful that, if you are going to search for the truth, you should keep your mind tuned with reality. If you saw that the real proofs are lacking for something then you should know that Allah does not want you to believe in it. If Allah wanted that, Allah will show you the proofs, and if you are honest you will follow the truth, and you will get happy life with much great happy after life.

That is Islam in fact, according to the most strongest verses of the Quran.

Take the word of me, if you are honest and found the truth rationally anywhere, and you followed it in your deeds and made it your life, actually you are a muslim even if you didn't pray or fast. But I am so far found no one found the truth in other than Islam. I chatted many years with disbelievers from much diversed education levels and orientations, and so far, no one could be rational in his criticizing of Islam, and be careful that Islam is not Muslims.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 06:29 by ala @194.165.149.186 : to mr daniel
i would like to point out that quran said that the earth is round and not flat before Galileo  

6 Feb 2006 @ 07:27 by Mo @84.0.52.233 : to all
Hello, I live in Europe, in a christian country, but i do not have any religion. I dont believe in any of God, neither in Christians, nor in Muslims, nor any other. I am a simple girl, believe in people and nature and ourselves. Still trying to belive that the human is good.
But in connection of this case, I think the Christians should understand the Muslims feelings towards the case, and they shouldnt have done this. Probably they also would have been angry, if some pics of their God is shown.... They should have left your prophet out of such things. The other thing, when the first newspaper shown those pics - I havent seen, so actually I do not know what I am talking about - the others shouldnt have done the same. So it was a mistake. They say, there is freedom in the media. And still not allowed to joke about certain things, like for example second World War and Jewish people. This is just not such things to joke about. And you all muslim people, I know your temper and thinking, I have visited several muslim country, (having several problem because of the fact being woman :-) ) , (I loved muslim countries, i enjoyed the Himalaya in Pakistan !!! my favorite place....)
I know your temper, i know your thinking. You must know ours, not muslim people's thinking, we are just not that strict and serious about many things. Sorry for the cartoons, I really dont want your feelings to be hurt, lets accept it was a mistake, - but it is not a solution to kill and blow up people and buildings who doesnt have any connection regarding those cartoons. I hope the case will be solved and forgotten soon....  

6 Feb 2006 @ 07:40 by Still Mo @84.0.52.233 : to Amer about killing
I am ateist, I think God doesnt exist and killing is bad. I tell you why is it bad. Because who are you that you can take away any other human's life ??? If you think killing is good, then why dont you kill your mother, sister, children ??? if it is good, then it is good for them too ...
The killers kills other people, but they are angry if their relatives are also killed. If someone sais killing is good, than kill youself, and then you will realise if it is good or not. The person who is killed, is someone's mother, brother, father,child, LOVE.
If someone sais killing is ok, than that person is just simply not normal. That person's place is in jail or in psicho place of a hospital. He doesnt have the right for living among us. In my opinion, all the killers, who kills people, even more people, should be killed. no jail. Death. See, soon there wont be so many killing.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 08:25 by Sam Said @83.244.12.195 : Islamisdying- i am with you for ever
i am living in bethlehem . islamisdying is the truth, i am with you
dr. SAM SAID bethlehem al mahed street  

6 Feb 2006 @ 09:19 by Human @71.139.86.118 : peace?
Do you know how vast is the universe around us? Take a look at the night sky and admire the works of GOD, feel it, love it, praise it...
"ashes to ashes dust to dust" we are nothing! understand, implement and do good deeds. just hush...  

6 Feb 2006 @ 09:19 by Hanan Taha @196.202.85.6 : We are sorry
Danes,
Again it me, an Egyptian muslim girl " Hanan".
I know that the situation has become out of control by burning embassies and blowing things up.
We apologize for that and I agree that these action have done nothing but to weaken our - muslims- sitatuion,however, those action have been taken by some people who aren't really presenting all the muslims.
Those people - whom u call terrorists- doing violent actions all around do not nessecarily mean that the other 5 billion muslims are like them.
I feel sorry for what happened for you embassies...really sorry...
maybe the boycott was a better way to express objection , but I didn't think that the situation may turn out to be that ugly.
anyway, afew people in afew muslims countries who has done these actions and the rest are really innocent , including my country,so please don't generalize.
and thanks ( Jylland Posten) for the second apology.I think now that everything has been cleared and everything has to be returned to normal,right?  

6 Feb 2006 @ 09:57 by Hanan Taha @196.202.85.6 : important note
please remember that the angry actions are based upon a huge background of mistreatment and racism against muslims since 11 september and not for only the cartoons themselves.
so you can say that the cartoons are the conclusion of this series to these angry muslims.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 10:10 by Comme ci comme ca @82.201.194.22 : To all
I heard a lot about right, freedom of speech. Not about duty. Everyone knows that with a freedom there is also a responsability and a duty. except kids. You are free to say what you want. Even if you know that it is hurting people and going against the social peace, the respect of others ? Who gave you this right ? You don't have it, because you are not respecting the first rule which is going with this freedom. The first right is freedom. The first duty is to respect each other. And don't say that it is just a joke, that it is funny... Because to represent Mohamed with a bomb it is not funny. It is, as most of the books in western countries, describing the muslim religion as a religion of war. It is only funny for the people who believe this. And I really feel sad about this. In the same time, the ones who boycott, it is your right. And after, you are punishing all Danes, even the one not involved in this story, even the muslims living in this country... You are going to make the things worse between two continents and to increase the gap between cultures. You all work for war between cultures. Not for peace, because you are kids, unable to look at the consequences of your actions, reacting as 4 years old kid. Are you waiting for the USA to arrange the problem between Europe and Middle East. Like this this great Nation of Freedoms who made the war in a non threatening nation, and tell them how to think peace and democracy, is going one more time to give lessons to Europa and Middle East. Are you not bored to be treated as kids. Are you not bored to react as kids. Grown up people, and try to work for peace and understanding not for war and destruction.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 10:19 by jazzolog : Sunday In The States
I think I'll leave this lengthy comment at this thread rather than the other on this topic here at Ming's blog, because of the international character of the writers and the tone that is emerging. Americans still appear to be talking rather casually about burning embassies and shouting protestors abroad. That's the way we are. Until somebody runs over a little kid in my own neighborhood, we don't like to put up a streetlight. Of course if somebody set fire to an embassy here, we might attack Borneo or something.

Some Internet writers and newspapers had columns of opinion yesterday. One of my favorite essayists is Byran Zepp Jamieson [link] , who emailed out this comment Friday afternoon~~~

"But there was enough religious loonery in the pages of the newspapers
yesterday to make up for the conspicuous absence of America’s two
noisiest religious whacks.

"First, there’s the matter of the cartoons depicting Mohammed. Islamic
law forbids any depiction of the Prophet as a violation of Allah’s law.
Before anyone in the Christian camp snickers too loudly, they might want
to know that they base this on Allah’s command in the old testament
(also a part of Islamic holy law) forbidding any graven image. Yes, it
comes from the Ten Commandments.

"Now mind you, nobody knows what Mohammed looked like. This is probably a
result of the fact that nobody was allowed to do any paintings of him in
the years following his ascendancy to Prophetability, and prior to that,
nobody could be bothered. So the cartoonists who drew 'Mohammed'
basically drew standard middle eastern Arabic figures. They could have
used Itszak Rabin’s face as a model and it would have been just as good
a guess as any as to the man’s appearance.

"So if you draw a stick figure and write the word 'Prophet' under it, the
Islamic fanatics will declare fatwa against you and express a strong
desire to haul you into a large soccer stadium and chop off your hands
and feet to show you that Allah is just and merciful."

Probably of more importance to this thread is the Addendum Zepp wrote a few minutes later~~~

"In my essay this week on Mytown, I remarked in passing that there were
no images of Mohammad after his rise to 'prophetability'. This, it turns
out, is incorrect. I was just guided to a website that has a remarkable
collect of images of Mohammed, dating from his time to the present day.

"The excellent site in question is
[link] "

The Washington Post put out a long-winded article about the controversy Saturday. I like the notion we have the opportunity to notice the whole clash of fundamentalist vs. liberal culture war is actually quite like a cartoon. But perhaps more significant is Kennicott's reference to the telegraph as such a recent invention. A hundred years ago an injurious depiction of any prophet in a book would have gone relatively unnoticed, but today the news can scream around the world in seconds. What I wish this Post writer had gone on to say is what a wonderful opportunity for negotiation and peace we have here on the Internet. I love that we have been talking together here. Hopefully everyone is learning something beneficial!

Anyway, I can't edit this guy's article very well, so here's the whole thing. Take what you like, and leave the rest~~~

Clash Over Cartoons Is a Caricature Of Civilization
By Philip Kennicott
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, February 4, 2006; C01

No serious American newspaper would commission images of Jesus that were solely designed to offend Christians. And if one did, the reaction would be swift and certain. Politicians would take to the floors of Congress and call down thunder on the malefactors. Some Christians would react with fury and boycotts and flaming e-mails that couldn't be printed in a family newspaper; others would react with sadness, prayer and earnest letters to the editor. There would be mayhem, though it is unlikely that semiautomatic weapons would be brandished in the streets. Fortunately, it's not likely to happen, because good newspapers are governed, in their use of images, by the basic principle of news valu e .

When those now-infamous 12 cartoons of the prophet Muhammad were first published in Denmark, they had virtually no news value at all. They were created as a provocation -- Islam generally forbids the making of images of its highest prophet -- in a conservative newspaper, which wanted to make a point about freedom of speech in liberal, secular Western democracy. Depending on your point of view, it was a stick in the eye meant to provoke debate, or just a stick in the eye.

Yet, the same 12 cartoons, a tempest in a Danish teapot when they were created in September, now have immense news value. Seeing them, which has always been possible on the Internet, has become a question laden with political importance. And that change in the status of these images is because of, almost entirely, the very people who found them offensive in the first place. If there weren't people in the streets of Gaza and Amman calling for limits on press freedom in countries of which they are not citizens, these cartoons would have long since faded into the obscurity they deserve.

Because, among other things, they are disposable. Perhaps the most striking thing about them is how closely they mirror the superheated tone of the wretched cartoons one finds regularly in the newspapers of the Middle East. There are exceptions to this: The Syrian opposition cartoonist Ali Ferzat makes images of great political power, always softened by a sense of irony and sadness (and, of course, they're not available in Syria because the government shut down his newspaper). Perhaps because editorial opinion, like so many other freedoms, has been so curtailed by authoritarian governments, the cartoonists of the Middle East seize upon acceptable topics -- hatred of Israel and the United States -- with distressing frequency, unrelenting venom and vicious stereotyping.

Several of the original Danish cartoons are minted in the same style, beyond lampoon or caricature and well into the realm of pure defamation. Muhammad is seen with a huge knife and a wild thicket of a beard, flanked by two women entirely veiled but for their eyes; worse, and by far the most inflammatory, is one in which his turban holds a ticking bomb. These images confront the highest religious sensitivities of many Muslims with precisely the same style of virulent rage that Islamic countries so carefully, even ritually, cultivate against the two great boogeymen -- the United States and Israel -- of Middle Eastern politics. Americans may wonder why, given the reality of photographs from Abu Ghraib, these trifling, imaginary images of Muhammad would provoke such a reaction. In part it's because they do so in one of the few forms that are open and available for Muslim artists to express real anger.

But, of course, for many Muslims, especially fundamentalists, the nuances of how the cartoons are drawn won't matter. The essential thing is the proscription against any image of the prophet. And that is where very many people, Muslims and those who fear or hate Muslims (let's be honest about the degree of rancor on both sides), would like to leave it. People on both sides want to picture it as a fundamental conflict of values, between absolute religious beliefs and absolute political principles, between God's word (as interpreted by man) and the freedoms enshrined in Western democracy. If that's how the conflict is presented to people in the West, then they, indeed, have little choice: Of course freedom of the press, even the freedom, as one French newspaper put it, "to caricature God," cannot be compromised.

But even people who hold fast to the bedrock principles of liberal democracy may feel the exasperating hand of a darker manipulation here. Because when forced to an impasse, the cartoon battle becomes exactly what ideologues in both worlds would like it to be: a proxy for the Clash of Civilizations.

Linking the far poles of civilization has always had its perils, not least of which is the temptation to involve oneself intimately in the affairs of people far away. It's been less than 150 years since the first telegraph cable was stretched across the Atlantic, making it possible for people in New York to know that people in London were cheesed off about something utterly trifling and parochial -- and vice versa. It's been less than a century and a half since the beginnings of a world that is now instantly connected, in which a contretemps in Denmark can be quickly scaled up into a rhetorical world war. It's odd, and rather sad, how little we've learned about the way barroom brawls spiral into street riots, about the ancient emotional mechanics that still govern the most important conversations of humanity.

Religious fundamentalism forced the issue; political fundamentalism inflamed it. An apology for giving offense is now capitulation to religious tyranny; the basic instinct of moderation is equated with cowardice. A little ink on paper is inflated to proof of a basic cultural incompatibility. So political leaders here speak of "the long war," a conflict with no sign of hope on the horizon between East and West. Now, rather absurdly, these cartoons may become part of the intellectual hardening of thought that will sustain the idea, on both sides of the cultural divide.

Gravity helps those who push people to conflict; moderation is a Sisyphean task that must always work uphill. Americans can do very little, and are in fact obliged to do nothing, about Muslim societies that don't respect the Western values of tolerance and freedom. They are obliged only to sustain religious tolerance in their own. Moderation, in this case, doesn't mean compromising on the defense of basic freedoms; it means demonstrating the exuberant value of freedom in a secular society. We need more blasphemy, exactly the sort of blasphemy that most challenges our own religious sensitivities. It needn't come in the form of tasteless cartoons but in the return of voices like those of Mark Twain and H.L. Mencken, voices that puncture the pretensions and sanctity of our own religious beliefs and leaders. We may cluck about the lack of freedom in Iran, but we have grown very orthodox about the way we speak of religion in our own public square. The curious thing about sacrilege is that it very often strengthens true religion as much as it reaffirms the right to challenge it.

That is one of the few truths that we might usefully try to communicate to fundamentalists in all corners of the world. But this grew so fast, and so quickly, and without the incorporation of moderating voices on either side, that we've truly reached a frightening impasse. Listen to an Egyptian member of parliament, quoted in Egypt's Al-Ahram Weekly, get it exactly wrong: "The Danish government needs to make a more formal apology in acknowledgment that freedom of expression does not mean people are free to insult prophets."

So perhaps these cartoons really do crystallize why Islam and the West are incompatible and must hunker down for a "long war." The only other option, it seems, is to remember that if vastly different worldviews can find no accommodation on a subject, then perhaps it's too early, in human history, to have the conversation.

© 2006 The Washington Post Company
[link]  

6 Feb 2006 @ 11:02 by RF-Max @130.236.130.121 : danish politics
Denmark is a racist country, trying to provoke other nationalities and religions. they have to blame themselves. Denmark are known as a country with a racist politic.  

6 Feb 2006 @ 17:25 by ozge b @193.174.122.67 : a dilemma?
i condemn the exaggarated protests of radical muslims and as a muslim, the events shouldn't have resulted with these kind of bad scenes... but while everbody is criticizing these people they ignore a very important point: does democracy and -for media freedom of speech- mean having the right of doing whatever you want without any respect to the others?? it is a well known thing that many Muslim people are quite sensitive about Mohammed's portraits, in muslim belief it is forbidden to draw his pictures because Mohammed doesn't want his people to see him as a god and says "i am only a messenger, do not pray to my pictures, but to god".. so up to now there is no picture of Mohammed in muslim world.. anybody can think anything, but it is muslims' respect to their prophets.. like your respect to jesus christ.. so it's these people's biggest right to expect from other people this respect.. as Muslims, one of the main rule of ISlam is believing to other prophets as well.. we also believe in jesus christ for example.. but while muslims admire him as much as as they do to Mohammed, they do not get the same understanding...

media must of course have the freedom of speech. However insulting a person, and especially in this case a holly person who has a very big meaning for his people, cannot be regarded in this frame.. In Turkey, my country, we do not have any cartoons insulting Christ or ones who make fun of your pope... You cannot compare it with other cases (for example there was jesus christ in one of the south park movies) and you cannot say that we can make fun of such kind of things because we are democratic!!! if it is so, then let everbody in media write whatever they want...

From the other side; i do not appreciate the protests of Muslim people, they shouldn' t overreact even if it is something that hurts them.. They mustn' t feel hatred to everyone because a couple of people's mistake.

What really makes me upset is that, we- the muslim people- will be regarded as fundamentalist and undemocratic people again.. While these danish guys will become the heroes of the free media and society, the very false image of the "muslim" identity will continue...

i am triyg to be unbiased and i really ask this question to you objectively without any intention of agitation: If it is ok when people can draw insulting cartoons of hz. mohammed, then it is also ok for protestors to burn danish flags.. Must it be so?? Does democracy tolerate it too?? I do not of course defend burning a nation's flag,i hope there will be some people who will understand what i really mean...

it is really hard to express what i feel, but i sincereley ask one thing from you, try to enlarge your frame of reference...  

6 Feb 2006 @ 17:43 by vibrani : Kennicott's article
Has Kennicott not heard of groups like the AFA, and other primarily Christian groups who censor our media? They were responsible for forcing NBC to remove an excellent program called "The Book of Daniel" in which Jesus is portrayed as a beautiful, supportive, compassionate being, and an Episcopalian minister dealing with life and its problems. But they found it offensive!

Speaking of the "offensive" cartoons - where is the international cry against these, showing the Muslim hypocrisy:[link]

Islam isn't a race...it's a religion.

The man who wrote the above post is right - Jesus and Saddam and Satan were in South Park. Jesus has also been used for frivolous displays on the internet. It didn't cause a huge uproar - did it?  

6 Feb 2006 @ 18:03 by Maged El Sawy @196.204.156.39 : We had better Know Islam & then Judge
For All of us: Lets Be Human Beings, Lets Use the gift God Bestowed on US. Lets Use our Minds. I beleive if this openion is deleted by the webmaster, then you have no Free of Expression!! Simply ... you are free to say & free to listen & also FREE to read... go to the following URLs to know Islam:

[link]
http://al-sunnah.com/introduction_to_islam.htm
[link]
http://www.islamworld.net/

tell you something, stop this hazardous talk & start know what does the OTHER mean?  

6 Feb 2006 @ 19:53 by Tom @82.181.27.45 : Freedom with Responsibilities
Dear ozge b

I think I mostly agree with you. No, I don't think freedom of speech means that you have a right to insult others. Freedom of speech is only one part, other part is Responibility. I think those cartoons were unnecessary.

Analyising the situation what is going on now. Probably the Jyllands Posten had a reason for giving an apology after they understood how those cartoons had hurted Muslim society. But when this situation changed worse, when the flags were in flames, when embassies were on fire. I don't not think it is a question of cartoons and responsibility anymore, now we are talking about things like world piece, security, freedom and safety of our lives and what is the best way to defend our selves. That is a whole new situation.

And for advice from me: for Those who want to find something that hurts your values. Go to surf in the internet! You will find a lot of insulting material from there! You can spend your whole life looking for peolpe, who have different values and even people who wants to hurt you. You can spend your whole life trying to make them think like you and spend your whole life even revenging those who wanted to hurt you. Those who have different values than you(no matter who you are), will never vanish from this earth, unless you some day find yourself alone here. This is now the new world of internet and mobile phones. A hundred years ago this couldn't happend like it did now.

Now if we are comparing at the number of readers of Jyllands Posten and the numbers of who has seen these stupid cartoons now. We can see that the number today is maybe 1000 times bigger. Who spread those cartoons. If the drawers really wanted to hurt Muslims with those cartoons, why some Muslims are helping the drawers? Or is it normal that people in Muslim countries are reading Jyllands Posten?

For conclusion: Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from responsibilities. About the situation now, the violent riots made this situation and the image of Muslim society much worse than it was when those cartoons were published.

Jyllands Posten gave an apology for that the article hurted the Muslims. And the Danish Muslims accepted the apology!!! I hope this calm down this situation.

Good Night everyone. Peace and Respect...  

6 Feb 2006 @ 19:59 by kuwait @62.150.207.188 : IT IS SHEEM TO BURN DENEMAREK FLAG
أن ماحدث من حرق لسفارات الدنمارك و النروج كان عملا همجى وغير مبرر وان من قام به هى الحكومه السوريه والحكومه الايرانيه ونحن بالخليج ندينه بشده ونطالب ان تتم محاسبة من قام بهذا العمل الهمجى الذى يتعارض معا تعاليم الدين الاسلامى نعم نعم هذه الاعمال ليس بها من الاسلام بشى .............. صحيح باننا نتمنا ان يصبح الغرب اقل عنصريه لا كما ظهر فى هذه القضيه( عندما رفض رئيس الوزراءالدانيماركى مقابلت السفراء العرب كانت هذه وقاحه عنصريه) كراهيت الغرب للمسلمين قديمه وليست وليدت اليوم ولكن ولكن لنظهر لهم ما هو الاسلام الحقيقى وليس اسلام المجرمين امثال بن لادن واحمد نجاد والاسد والضواهرى هولاء ليست اخلاقهم من الاسلام بشى ان اردنا ان نبين لهم غضبنا من هذه الرسومات الحقيره فاقصى مانقوم به يجب ان لا ينتهك المعاهدات ونتذكر كيف نبى الله الحبيب محمد (صلى)عندما عاهد الكفره لم ينكث بوعده نعم الغرب يعيش أزمه أخلاقيه كبيره وتجد هذه الازمه فى كل أسره وهذا ما يجعل مفهوم الاسره يتراجع بشكل مخيف لهم ليحل محله مفهوم أنا فقط والباقى للجحيم ) ولكن من ناحيه أخرى ليست أجتماعيه,,, بل صناعيه وأقتصاديه نقر بأن الغرب قدم الكثير والكثير للبشريه انا من دعات بأن الحياة تسعنا جميعافلنعش وندع الاخرون يعيشون ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, والسلام  

6 Feb 2006 @ 20:19 by kuwait @62.150.207.188 : soory it was SHAM NOT SHEEM
my english not that good soory i mint SHAM NOT SHEEM OK!!!!!!!!!!!!  

7 Feb 2006 @ 07:45 by a Dane @80.164.65.4 : to RF-Max
Yes Denmark have had a problem with racisme we got some problems with some groups of Muslims here in one of our citys the police sometimes are afraid to go there they attack ambulances that makes it a lil worse everytime. When we see in TV a muslim cutting the head of a buisness man in the middleeast while yelling "ALLAH IS GREAT" that makes it worse too. but here we work agains racisme. We don´t have problems with Muslims getting attacked or trown things after, here we had a politician that made some racist comments in the radio he was brought for the courts, we had a another politician brought for the court for racist remarks, we try to work the problem, even though we mainly aint muslims.
What do the muslims do when muslims kills people while yelling "Allah is great"? Why don´t u protest and show us that those people don´t speak for the muslim religion?
I got muslim friends i refuse to think all muslims are bad i really try to belive there is atleast as many good as bad ones but it gets harder, when i think of muslims i will try to think of my muslims friends here, or as i saw in TV, i saw some muslim religios leaders trying to calm the trouble makers, i will try to think of theise people as the speakers for Muslims but it gets harder by each passing day.
I still dun understand what muslims are trying to achive, the paper and that made the drawings said they were sorry, you still see the drawings as something Denmark made, Denmark didn´t do that, we had protest here against the drawings too but they did it in a peaceful way i got great respect for that, they show that they were offended, but they don´t want to see blood or death, and they understand that Denmark did not make those drawings.

To Hanan Taha thx for your words makes me still have hope  

7 Feb 2006 @ 07:52 by A Dane @80.164.65.4 : drawings
btw the paper will most likely be bought for the court, what more do people expect to be done?  

7 Feb 2006 @ 08:30 by Aziz A @64.213.98.17 : Insult
Freedom of speech is not enough justification to insult and debase people or religions. Prophet Mohammad dead 1450 years ago where there was no terorisim, or unjustified killing. He called for peacs and respect of dignity. The name of the word "islam" means pease. So Islam is a religion of respect, right worship but not a religion of violence. There are some terrorists kill people in unjustified way and in the mame of Islam, but in reality Islam innocent, and dont forget that those terrorists are killing even Moslim people as in Iraq now . so Islam and real Moslims are both victims of terrorism. So why you insult our prophet in the mame of the freedom. Freedom of expression shoule be subject to morals, and governed by some limitations otherwise it would be a bad way to insult and humiliate people and their ethics with no good reason.Thx  

7 Feb 2006 @ 08:44 by Another Danish guy @80.164.65.4 : to Aziz A
you are still missing the point Aziz if you follow the news even Danes christians and Muslims, protested agains the drawings here in Denmark (in a peacefull manner) they let the paper know they though the drawings was unaccpetable. Denmark did not make the drawings, the drawings dosen´t repesent Denmark and anymore than those people u say dosen´t repesent Islam. The muslims here accepted the apoligy, why dose the muslims in London and the Middle East still yell for killing and bombing?

I too are having problems to seeing theise people as the speakers for Islam, we showed that the paper dose not speak for Denmark but i never seen muslims Protest and yell theise people dosen´t repesent Islam  

7 Feb 2006 @ 08:50 by Jane D. @64.213.98.17 : Islam is not terrorism
Fight terrorism, fight terrorists and killers themselves but dont fight or insult Islam and majority of Muslims. Be against the bad and respect the good. Messanger Mohammed lived in a different age like any other prophits who call for harmoney, peace and worsiping of one God, morover he didnt call for blood shedding or terrorism  

7 Feb 2006 @ 09:52 by 1 @83.244.85.80 : fghszdfgh
thshsrtjsrtjsrj  

7 Feb 2006 @ 11:05 by Rich_S @195.160.253.3 : These cartoons are not simple insults
Political cartoons are drawn to make a comment. These particular cartoons (the original 12 published, not the 3 added by Danish Immans which are much worse) are comments on how 12 different cartoonists see the Prophet - understand? They are COMMENTS.

Ok, firstly, non-muslims do not need to follow Islamic law, so the ban on depicting the Prophet Muhammad does not apply do us, and it’s wrong to insist that it does. Same goes to Christians who might get upset over depictions of Christ. Provided it doesn't go too far (by common human standards, not religious standards), cartoonists can use the images and icons of religion to criticise the religion. RELIGION IS FAIR GAME, because each religion is a set of ideas. (If you are wondering about perceived Western double-standards, religion is fair game, but race is not – that’s way we criticise Arabic cartoons of Jews because they fail to make the distinction between ideas and race)

Ok, secondly, given that we can draw Muhammad, how is a cartoonist to depict him? Muhammad isn't regularly drawn, he has no common appearance, which makes him a perfect tool for a cartoonist to use to illustrate a wider point, to comment on something. The cartoon where Muhammad has a bomb for a turban, that is NOT a simple insult, it's a representation. It highlights a wider truth: Islam has been hijacked by extremism. Fundamentalists are using the Islamic faith to justify a terrorist agenda, and normal Muslims have allowed this to happen. I don't blame them - for example, I find the British National Party quite horrible but you won't find me protesting at their meetings. I don't have time to fight a battle against national fascism, I've got to go to work in the morning.

So, this isn’t about insulting Islam, or insulting prophets. Non-Muslims can do that, because they don’t believe in Islam, and aren’t bound to respect your icons. This is about general respect between cultures. The West likes to think we do a good job these days (for example, we have freedom of religion laws) of respecting minorities, although we don’t have a long history of this, but then we are STILL faced with Islamic-terrorism and suicide bombers. This is about how we view Islam – the word “Islam” may originally mean “peace” but that’s not what it stands for anymore. Your religion has been hijacked by fundamentalists and you need to take it back.

You can start by protesting against the throat-cutting brigade.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 11:06 by shimo @62.135.56.28 : Danish Cartoons of prophet mohammed
Insulant fools who don't think we were created for another reason rather than eating, having fun, sex , ...etc. The world was created just like that by chance. Whose sanity should we question now. Try studying Islam and the Koran first, before you judge and say your opinion. Maybe then yuo will understand why muslims feel so offended. I think that any one who agrees with this cartoons about the prophet is an ignorant person. Read and study before you speak!! It's not O.k to get funny about religious matters and say it's a free country.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 12:07 by Mohammad @82.198.3.154 : To Aziz, Danishguy, Lisa,Finish, and all
Aziz you have touched the sensitive point, terrorist group do crimes for the sake of their benefit by the name of Islam, they kill us in Iraq and then they give the percieved idea that they represent Mohammad and his religion. Today the cartoons show no respect to Islam as a peaceful religion since they consider Bin Laden acts a phase of Islam. However, an important question must be raised who supported Bin Laden by weapon and money for years, Is NOT USA. USA supported Bin Laden to get rid of the soviet power in Asia. today BinLaden has goals beyond the goals of USA, the war is between them and those innocents suffering from this war are muslims. Another issue that pushes some muslims against the west is the unrational way the west deal with Islam. All the world must know that Bin LAden is our enemy as muslims more that he is the enemy of wester countries. Lisa have raised the issue of respect, I greatly support her. there is no reason to talk with each other in this way, the terms ("FUCK", "PIGS", "ANIMALS"...) are to be used by people who have no logic to debate. you converstaing in this page please be more civilized to read about Islam, about the history of Islam as well the histroy of terrorism to understand its causes and forsee the way to avoid more terroris. and whatever was your point of view there will be no problem with it if it was raised with "RESPECT". AnoterhDnish guy answered Aziz by asking why muslims are still yelling for killing. AnotherDanishGuy, yes still there are people yelling for killing. this is because of several factors: 1) the reaction of western people with the cartoons and the fact that they did not understand the level of hurt the cartoons caused raised high level of hate against countries as Danemark and remember that muslims are hurt by USA and the Western countires in the issue of occupying IRAQ, Afkhanistan, and supporting Israel. 2) the level of support of some western countries to Israel and USA and a major number of muslims feel that the west always tend to disciminate them and their weekness as poor and occupied people psychologically push them to tend to terrorism. the above two points reflect the tendency for terrorism and raises the issue that terrorism problem can not be solved by occupying countries as IRAQ and Afkhanistan, it must be done by solving the reasons of this terrorism. Finally I want to add, Danemark apology was not clear and it was somehow late, the problem became wider because another contries papers followed Danemark Journal to publish the cartoons. I suggest a solution where the united nations are asked to meet and state a law to define rules that will define baorders for speech freedom and define a level of repect to religions especially because globalization is not just to speak via internet and business, we muslims have our traditions and for the sake of humanity all the world must understand our religion and our traditions to reach with other a point where there is no place to terrorism.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 12:14 by Rich_S @195.160.253.3 : Shimo
Hi Shimo,

You don't need to be a Muslim to believe there is something more to life than fun, sex and etc. In fact, that perfectly illustrates religious imperialism, which I find actually pretty offensive myself - I don't want to be converted by you.

I've had more than a passing glance at Islam and the Koran, and looked at other religions too. The conclusion I came to was that every religion is just a pre-packaged set of beliefs and morals, and that I don't subscribe to any of them. Historically religion was a postive guiding force for civilisation as a whole, but we don't need ancient stories to illustrate our morals any more.

Or at least, I don't. If you do, then fine. If you belief killing is wrong, we are on the same page, because I also believe killing is wrong - but my belief about killing didn't come as a package together with a belief that some kind of god told a man to say it was wrong. I take great offence at your insistance that I should treat the fairy-tale stories that you think are absolute truth with respect, as if they had some kind of value to me. They do not.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 13:09 by obaid essa @195.229.242.52 : why only islam
As a muslim I feel sorry for all of you people because every one of you he looks at islam as enemy and I know why because there is al-qaeeda / bin laden and al-zarqawi yes they are belong to muslims counrty so what ? there are more than one billion muslim in the world who respect Jesus/Moses and all the prophets and over that they respect every bodys religion, faith and belief. I would like to invite all the world to visit my country DUBAI it is a muslim country and who ever come there he will see the real islam , not the islam you see in the news media. only at that time who ever want to say any thing about islam he will be free to say it because he will know what to say about islam. and I think this is what every body know it BE FAIR BE FOR YOU JUDGE AND TO BE FAIR YOU HAVE TO KNOW ISLAM. and to go back to the freedom in the westren or in the world who can make any funny cartoons about the holocaust? I CHALLENGE ALL OF YOU IF ANY ONE CAN DO IT!! so where is the freedom or it's just you want to use it against the muslim when ever you want !!  

7 Feb 2006 @ 13:23 by Another Danish Guy @80.164.65.4 : to Mohammad
Denmark have not said Denmark is sorry, caurse Denmark did NOT make those cartoons, that´s the whole point, a newspaper made them in Denmark the goverment can´t prevent a newspaper in making drawings or anything else if the newspaper broke the law like they might have done in this case this could be seen as blasfemy (or what the word is) then the offended people can take it to the court and then the court deside if the law has been broken, it has nothing to do with the Danish goverment.
the newspaper said sorry to muslims the muslims here accepted the appology, but the paper will probaly still be brought for the court.
And what i wanted to make a point as well is there are racisme all over the world, but if people are unsure of what to think, i belive seeing people yelling for the murder and destruction of Denmark probaly will seal the deal. I am no racist i understand how the drawings can be offensive for Muslims but this surely could have been handled without burning Danish buildings or attacking Danish people. Denmark is not sorry caurse the drawings was not a statement from Denmark in anyway, plz try to understand if laws been broken here people bring it to the court if they wish actions to be done.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 14:56 by Ahmed @71.247.185.181 : I hope this helps some of you understand
Keep in mind, that knowing about the religion, would be better then talking about it without knowing about the facts.

We like making sweeping declarations about freedom of speech but that right is fettered by laws of libel and hate, and other factors.

In newspapers, cartoons are routinely rejected for reasons of taste or because they may be unfair or unnecessarily hurtful. A good editor errs on the side of pushing the limits of freedom. But on occasion, she says no.

The artist may not like the call but must live with it. The drawing is his but the space in which it is to run is the newspaper's.

The Star's legendary cartoonist Dunc Macpherson once argued that I was misguided to have axed his day's work on the basis that his premise was all wrong. "Artists are not bound by facts," he growled. But the paper is, I said.

The Danish paper that invoked freedom of speech to justify caricaturing the Prophet Muhammad is, thus, only half right. But let's say that it did have an absolute right. Equally, though, Muslims had a right to be offended. Defenders of the first principle have had difficulty acknowledging the second.

"Why the fuss? These are only cartoons," many said of the Arab boycott of Danish products.

The peaceful consumer revolt was a legitimate response (until overtaken by gun-toting hotheads issuing dire warnings).

Yet many Europeans derided the boycott, with the unmistakable underlying message: "We can treat you the way we want and thou shall shut up."

Those days are gone. Still, why do Muslims react so strongly?

By now, readers know that Islam forbids depictions of the Prophet. Non-Muslims can no more mock that than Muslims can deride some aspect of the Christian or Jewish faith.

Imagery was not the only problem with the Danish cartoons. They were insulting, which is, of course, the point of a cartoon. But they also portrayed the Prophet as a terrorist and, by extension, all Muslims, thereby engendering hate against them.

The drawings were hurtful to a people who are, arguably, more attached to their prophet than others may be to theirs.

Each time they say his name, Muslims invoke "peace and blessings" on Muhammad. Nearly 4 million visit his grave in Saudi Arabia every year.

But more than religion, it is geo-politics, past and present, that hangs over the controversy.
A cartoon Thursday in the al-Quds newspaper showed an artist at work at Jyllands-Posten. In the first panel, he rejects a grotesque drawing of a black person: "This is racism." He rejects the second, which equated the Cross of David with the swastika: "This is anti-Semitism." He keeps the longer third panel, of the Prophet's cartoons: "This is freedom of speech."

When Muhammad appeared 600 years after Christ, Europe saw him as an impostor and a false prophet. Pope Innocent III called him the Antichrist. Dante consigned him to the ninth of the 10 ditches of the Inferno. Voltaire, Gibbon, Bacon and others demonized him as the Prince of Darkness or the Beast of the Apocalypse or Mahound.

Such characterizations were used in more muted forms by European colonialists occupying Muslim lands. The bigoted imagery had begun to subside during our contemporary era, only to be resurrected after 9/11.

Go to any bookstore in a European city and you will see anti-Muslim tracts selling well.

Europe's 20 million Muslims have borne the brunt of this Islamophobia, from rightwing anti-immigrant parties and conservative media. Here's a sample from the Danish People's Party: "Muslims who come here reject our culture. Muslim immigration is a way for Muslims to conquer us, just as they have done for the past 1,400 years."

Add to all this some contemporary realities affecting Muslims.

Iraq was illegally and unjustly invaded and remains occupied, with contemptuous disregard for Iraqi lives. Palestinians have just been warned they may be starved because they dared to elect Hamas. Iran is being isolated over its nuclear intentions, even though it has not violated the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty it has signed, while non-signatories Israel and India enjoy full American backing.

The arguments for and against those policies aside, there's no doubt that they have left Arabs/Muslims feeling under siege.

They see double standards in the Danish affair as well.

A cartoon Thursday in the al-Quds newspaper showed an artist at work at Jyllands-Posten. In the first panel, he rejects a grotesque drawing of a black person: "This is racism." He rejects the second, which equated the Cross of David with the swastika: "This is anti-Semitism." He keeps the longer third panel, of the Prophet's cartoons: "This is freedom of speech."

Conversely, the criticism from Arabs/Muslims has sounded hypocritical, given their own intolerance and an ongoing anti-Israeli polemic. Much of that is encouraged by unelected, despotic governments keen on diverting domestic anger abroad.

This context shows there is a great deal of mutual ignorance. However, it does not prove any inherent incompatibility between Muslims and non-Muslims, as extremists on both sides would have us believe.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 15:53 by gls @212.33.117.250 : peace
1. THE EMBODIMENT OF TAO
Even the finest teaching is not the Tao itself.
Even the finest name is insufficient to define it.
Without words, the Tao can be experienced,
and without a name, it can be known.

To conduct one's life according to the Tao,
is to conduct one's life without regrets;
to realize that potential within oneself
which is of benefit to all.

Though words or names are not required
to live one's life this way,
to describe it, words and names are used,
that we might better clarify
the way of which we speak,
without confusing it with other ways
in which an individual might choose to live.

Through knowledge, intellectual thought and words,
the manifestations of the Tao are known,
but without such intellectual intent
we might experience the Tao itself.

Both knowledge and experience are real,
but reality has many forms,
which seem to cause complexity.

By using the means appropriate,
we extend ourselves beyond
the barriers of such complexity,
and so experience the Tao.

Up to Index

2. LETTING GO OF COMPARISONS

We cannot know the Tao itself,
nor see its qualities direct,
but only see by differentiation,
that which it manifests.

Thus, that which is seen as beautiful
is beautiful compared with that
which is seen as lacking beauty;
an action considered skilled
is so considered in comparison
with another, which seems unskilled.

That which a person knows he has
is known to him by that which he does not have,
and that which he considers difficult
seems so because of that which he can do with ease.
One thing seems long by comparison with that
which is, comparatively, short.
One thing is high because another thing is low;
only when sound ceases is quietness known,
and that which leads
is seen to lead only by being followed.
In comparison, the sage,
in harmony with the Tao,
needs no comparisons,
and when he makes them, knows
that comparisons are judgements,
and just as relative to he who makes them,
and to the situation,
as they are to that on which
the judgement has been made.

Through his experience,
the sage becomes aware that all things change,
and that he who seems to lead,
might also, in another situation, follow.
So he does nothing; he neither leads nor follows.
That which he does is neither big nor small;
without intent, it is neither difficult,
nor donᇘŮwi?? e��e.��r ଯ> His task completed, he then lets go of it;
seeking no credit, he cannot be discredited.
Thus, his teaching lasts for ever,
and he is held in high esteem.

Up to Index

3. WITHOUT SEEKING ACCLAIM

By retaining his humility,
the talented person who is also wise,
reduces rivalry.

The person who possesses many things,
but does not boast of his possessions,
reduces temptation, and reduces stealing.

Those who are jealous of the skills or things
possessed by others,
most easily themselves become possessed by envy.

Satisfied with his possessions,
the sage eliminates the need to steal;
at one with the Tao,
he remains free of envy,
and has no need of titles.

By being supple, he retains his energy.
He minimizes his desires,
and does not train himself in guile,
nor subtle words of praise.
By not contriving, he retains
the harmony of his inner world,
and so remains at peace within himself.

It is for reasons such as these,
that an administration
which iᇘŮco??er��d  

7 Feb 2006 @ 17:02 by trse @212.33.117.250 : ujhgfj
jojo  

7 Feb 2006 @ 17:06 by abu @212.33.117.242 : test
success  

7 Feb 2006 @ 17:57 by LWR @212.90.65.157 : Good alternative
Living without religion.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 18:44 by Tom (finnish) @82.181.27.45 : SEE GOOD IN BAD
Dear Mohammad, Lisa and others

When Im reading these last messages on this page, I can see some light and that we have some kind of direction here. Of course we still have many disagreements, but the one who is thinking that this would be solved in a week or in ten years is too optimist or crazy. Most important is to find a direction, which pleases everyone.

Mohammad, you went deeper to my point where I asked, who is really to blame of these situations. I mostly agree with you, there are many unacceptable things happend in our close history example war in Afganistan and iraq. Yes there were problems in those countries, but when we look at for example Iraq now, the situation there is probably a lot worse. And when we go even deeper we found US and CIA and their cooperations with Bin Laden in Afganistan. Those people and their actions have a connection to things we unfortunately have to meet today.

The terrorists who are planning attacks against innocent people in Europe, Iraq and all over the world must be stopped somehow. But we must also look in the history to see who should we really blame for terrorism and sufferings all over the world. The cartoons were only a unfortunate and sad example, an incident which would have probably happend some other day anyway.

Now maybe we can't get all of those from history into the court, but what we can is with constructive, peaceful and polite conversations like we are trying to do here today we can unite against those evil forces. We must make the difference between PEOPLE who really want peace, respect, and politeness for everyone in our world no matter of the religion, from THOSE who don't want peace and just use others to get more power for themselves. We have seen both of those people on this page.

What I disagree with you Mohammad is: when you said the problem became wider when also other newspapers published those cartoons. I don't think that would have happened without the violent attacks against embassies in Middle East. Whatever, It is already happened. You said the solution for this would be a law, which would put boarders to media what they can publish. I disagree! There already are laws which take a stand on sensitive cases. And this probably is one of those cases. Now I don't think we need more laws, because I believe more reasonability and respect of individuals. I believe that this kind of responsibilities like respect everyone, no matter who they are, are things that we should all learn without any laws and government interferes. Maybe we have different ways to communicate, but we don't want to hurt anybody by being disrespect. It has been working very well here, of course there are exeptions. But those exceptions have been solved mostly peaceful ways. This is the way people learn to really respect others, not because government and laws tells you to.

Now there are of course a new situation when cultures and religions are colliding because of internet and globalisation. The issue of setting boarders to the press and give an opportunity to government to interfere what the media can say is preventing the free thinking of individuals. Because what we know about the world around us, most of information comes from the media. If the government has an opportunity to interfere what the media can say, leads to situation where government has also keys into peoples minds.

For conclusion: Now we have seen how those cartoons only hurted people which is of course never good. But if this hadn't happened, I would not have been going on these constructive conversations with YOU all. This case is of course not over yet, but when next time something like this happens, and I promise you, even that I am an optimist, it will!, I hope people are having these kind of constructive conversations. And now I'm not talking of those people who just used anger and very unpolite words to destroy this conversation. I'm sorry if there are big criticism and maybe some anger also in my messages, that's because I was angry and I still am. But showing it like some people here have done is unacceptable, those insults were a lot worse than these cartoons. This is my opinion.  

7 Feb 2006 @ 20:08 by Balance @208.29.146.18 : Stupid
Is this all you have to talk about???

Idiot’s, there are children starving to death out there!!!!

As for this subject Daniel You put it best!! "the caricatures were made not of Muslims but of their eternally living Allah who should be perfectly capable of dealing with those that sinned against him!"

The butchers of children can't be blessed!!!! By Gods right hand islam's reign of terror IS COMING TO AN END!!!!!  

7 Feb 2006 @ 20:38 by hamid @217.219.33.1 : its from us to u god
hi im irani and i love u spcel hosaei
no one cant tell you are teerorist
and they know
all lovers  

7 Feb 2006 @ 23:03 by A Dane @80.164.65.4 : weird
/Keep to forgiveness (O Mohammed), and enjoin kindness, and turn away from the ignorant. /- The Koran, Chapter 7, Verse 199

Sound like wise words to me wonder why those muslims that are that offended and yell for death and war, don´t lisen to the koran themself if the belive that strongly  

7 Feb 2006 @ 23:42 by SHAYKHOON` @82.201.222.25 : weird
hey man i wanna tell u somth look ....1st we are extreemly peacfull how ever what Israel is trying hard to show by making every terror in the world in our name ...however ...even in the univers nature for every peace thier is limits coz we are not fools we are ppl just like u when interfearing our red line ( insulting our relegion) u cross all the borders to our rage .... we never accept any funny jokes about relegion if u dont understand that concept then moke ur own relegion and leave us alone ......  

7 Feb 2006 @ 23:57 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : I am glad
Hello all!
I am glad to see that we are turning this into a calm and informative messageboard again. Because of that, I can learn many things from muslims that write on this page, and hopefully you can learn something from me.
Mohammed, I agree with Tom that a UN law is not the way to go. We have to be able to respect each other without laws. And I want to stress the point that there are laws regarding our freedom of speech. You cannot say whatever you want, and whether Jyllands-Posten broke those laws or not WILL BE TESTED in a court of law.
Ahmed pointed out some very important things. I really do think that these pictures, by themselves, are not the main reason why some people react in a violent manner. The muslim world has not been treated with respect, by many leaders of the western world for many, many years. This publication was yet another punch in the face for many poor people that already lead a very hard life, with war and not enough money to get food for the day. Many muslims, at least in Sweden, already feel that they are not as much worth as a person with a swedish name. And to kick someone, that is already lying down, is not respect in any way. I have seen the pictures, and I understand that many muslims are offended. Since no one knows what Mohammed looked like, the drawers just drew an arabic man with a bomb on his head. This can be interprested as every arabic man is a terrorist. But since it was supposed to be Muhammed they were drawing, it could be interpreted as the whole muslim world are terrorists. I truly do not think that that was the intention of the drawer, and I personally do not see it that way. But I can sure understand why many muslims interpreted it that way. For years, many in the western world have looked at every muslim thinking that he might be a suicide-bomber. Of course, you'd get offended. I would.
On the other hand, once again, it needs to be pointed out that this is not the opinion of the whole of the Danish people. The same way muslims don't want to be generalized, Danish people doesn't want to be generalized.
Balance says that why do we discuss this, when there are children starving in the world. It is not that simple, and the two things are very much connected. At least there is a connection between why some muslims react with violence, and the fact that there is famine in the world, even though the western world produces enough food to make sure everybody in this world is not hungry.
I think there are two points in this issue: 1) Is it right or wrong to publish cartoons of Muhammed, according to the freedom of speech law? and 2) Why do some muslims react with violence? Separate the two, and you might start to see things in a different perspective.
So I ask of all of you, take the blinkers from your eyes, and put yourself in the other partys shoes for a while. Then maybe, when this is all over, we can all respect each other even though our opinions might differ.

To all the muslims writing on this page: Have I interpreted the situation correctly? Feel free to explain and correct me, if you think I have not.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 00:07 by vibrani : Wanna talk koran?
let's talk Koran and Bible:
The two brothers (Abraham and Ishmael) and their descendants were not to fight over the inheritance, but rather"compete in good works," as the Koran, Ishmael's guide book, so aptly says. GOOD WORKS, NOT EVIL, NOT HATEFUL.

Koran clearly states (Sura 5:21) that God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel and ordered them to settle there. In addition, it is predicted that before the end of days, God will bring the Children of Israel to retake possession of the Land, gathering them from the different countries and nations (Sura 17:104).

Many Muslims are not obeying their koran.

Shaykoon, you're an ignorant, uninformed, intolerent and hateful hypocrite.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 00:13 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : lisa
what u have said was exactly perfect ...and am gonna answer ur questions as in my own opinion as one muslim........1. i do understand that not all danish ppl are risponsible ...as well as when we protested they may have got the idea wrong that we anna force them in what to say....that can be in thier account the miss in unerstanding between us ,
in our part .......just imagin that the most dearest thing u will ever hold in ur memory the thing that can bring u happyness even n hell (in our belife)...that thing is been moked that can just push rage fro us + we are in the defending situation .
as violance is not at allk a part of what we must do or what we were teached
...........last i see this as a miss understanding done by outter hand ...(??) i dont wanna interfear another parts in the conv. by saying who i think responsible..... but i hope denmark understands what they have just touched in us and apologize in a satisfing way to these millions .....on the other hand i hope the angry ppl ( of muslims) act better i any bad situation than destroying and such......  

8 Feb 2006 @ 00:17 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : vibrani
complete reading u will find that GOD found that they were useless to his cause so he left them and picked us instead they were givin the land when they were chosen now we are givin the land ......(in Quraan)
but lets talk about this later ....one prob. at a time  

8 Feb 2006 @ 00:21 by Ray Charles Istre @71.40.42.126 : Jesus with nuke?
Are the jihadists really upset because it was just a little old timey bomb depicted in Mohammeds turbin instead of a real nuke like the "Christian" nations have?

As an American artist, should I depict Jesus with a nuke protruding out of his cloak?  

8 Feb 2006 @ 00:25 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : ray
you accept drawing and moking ur relegion we dont that meanes that u wanna get funny just moke ur relegion and leave us alone we never moked nobodeys relegion and said thats freedom ...no that just crosses the line.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 00:30 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : SHAYKHOON
In the beginning I was totally against an apology, but now I more and more see that there is a need for it. I truly believe that the pictures were not intended to cause this split between the muslim world and the western world. The intention was not to deliberately hurt the feelings of the muslim world. That is a matter of different interpretation of the same thing.
I also know that Jyllands-Postens editor has apologized for hurting the feelings of many muslims. And once again, the matter is being tested in a court of law. Personally I don't see what else they / we can do. Please let me know what you think would be a satisfying apology.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 00:30 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : +rey
u are very proud to have nukes ...... its a wepon used just to make disasters unlike any wepon this is the worst of the all u doomed millions by it in japan and ur so proud ..........how could u ....and u call ussss terorists!!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 00:33 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : Again... SHAYKHOON
Look! These generalization are again what we don't want. I am from a western country, I DO NOT LIKE NUKES! You are muslim, you are NOT a terrorist!
When you generalize you can only go bad! Try to open your mind to that.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 00:35 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : lisa
1st ....when this cartoons were made it was kinda contest so it was intended ...i see that the cartoonests must be punished ....(not like prison or somth ) as well as an apology from the paper itself .....we dont want problems we just wanna end this matter that is a black usless spot in history of humanity for both of us.....  

8 Feb 2006 @ 00:38 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : And as for Ray Charles
Why are you doing this? We are trying to have a productive conversation here, that you actually may learn something from. Until you can speak your mind in a respectful and intelligent manner, be quiet!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 00:39 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : lisa
sorry for generalizing  

8 Feb 2006 @ 00:57 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : SHAYKHOON
As I said before, Jyllands-Posten has already made an apology.
As for the drawer being punished. I think that is where are views of life and right and wrong differ. In the Scandinavian countries, you are protected by law to express your opinion. That includes drawing a picture. On the other hand, showing it off to the rest of the world, as Jyllands-Posten did, might not be allowed, and as I said that will be tested in a court of law. But according to Danish law you can not punish someone for making a drawing. And I have to say that I agree on that. Part of living in a democracy is being able to do have your own opinion. So, as for punishment of the drawer, to be honest, that's not gonna happen. Just to let you know what to expect. Actually I think that the people who drew the pictures (there were actually several of them) did apologize. Unfortunately, I don't think that that apology has reached the muslim world outside of Denmark.
I want to add, that these pictures were published in september. After that, Danish muslims protested, and an apology was made from the paper, which the muslims in Denmark accepted.
The cartoons was not made to be a part in a contest. That is wrong information. The editor of Jyllands-Posten asked these artist if they could draw some pictures of Muhammed, because he was afraid that the paper was cencuring itself on what to publish and what not. Since self-cencuring, and cencuring in general, is a threat against democracy, he tried to make sure this was not the case. For people living in non-democracies, this can be very hard to understand, I know that. All I can ask is that you educate yourself in what it means to be a democracy.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:05 by Roxana @67.68.73.120 : to shaykoon
brother, calm down! I converted to Islam, and am european by birth....are you going to tell me I like nukes too?
Not everybody thinks muslims are terrorists...hello I converted.
What you are exhibiting is exactly why there are problems: you get angry and jump to conclusions.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:06 by ming : Communication is difficult
It is strange and puzzling how it really is apples and oranges we're talking here.

I've seen now many postings and statements from Muslims saying more or less "Why? Why? Why would you insult our prophet like that?". Essentially "Why do you choose to be so mean to us?". "Why do you send such a hateful message to all Muslims?" I see people being sad and puzzled that westeners use their freedom of speech to attack their beloved prophet.

On the other side we see something totally different. It is apples versus oranges. The two versions of what happened aren't even close.

Denmark wasn't sending a message to Muslims. The Danish government wasn't sending a message. The newspaper wasn't even sending a message to all Muslims. The message they were sending wasn't an insult to Muslims. It wasn't an insult to Muhammed either. It wasn't meant to put down Islam or Muhammed. It wasn't directed at Muslims. It was part of a discussion about censorship and freedom of expression. It started because the author of a children's book found that potential illustrators were afraid of illustrating his book. None of which was meant as an insult to anybody.

It is a misunderstanding.

If person A tries to communicate to person B, he probably has a certain intention of what he's trying to convey. Maybe he's praising person B, maybe he's insulting him, maybe he's giving him some information, maybe he's saying hello. But B might not receive what was intended. Maybe he'll receive an insult when it was meant to be a hello. Maybe he didn't understood it at all.

It is unfortunate if person B receives an insult when it wasn't an insult that was sent to him. Maybe person A was a bit sloppy in sending his communication, so he didn't succeed in getting it delivered right.

But person B can not be sure that he has received the meaning that was intended. Particularly, if person A protests and says that's certainly not what he meant, there's no point in B insisting that he KNOWS exactly what A meant. Then we're no longer talking about communication.

So, here, a lot of people insist that they have received an insult, even though no insult was sent in their direction. And even though that might have started as a mis-communication and a mis-understanding, it is now something else. No amount of explanations seem to be able to clear up that it didn't really happen.

"Why did you insult our prophet?" We didn't. We don't know you, we don't really know your prophet, and we don't know how he looks, and we didn't have the slightest intention of telling you that your prophet sucks. And it wasn't "we" who did it, anyway. You misunderstood it. A newspaper published some drawings. Somebody told you what they meant. They were wrong.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:13 by Roxana @67.68.73.120 : to Ming
hey ming

I agree, sometimes you say something, but it gets interpreted in the wrong way by the receiver.
However, even if the intent was not to offend, and even if it might have been out of ignorance, in publishing these pictures, Denmark has stumbled across a taboo. Like if you accidentally slap your neighbour, you appologize, no? I think it should be the same. At the same time, muslims need to appologize for the angry/violent reaction...it goes both ways. No?  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:13 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : lisa.......if so
about Muslms accepting the pics ....thats is not right they reqwested to stop such an act from many ministers ....but no one listened...
about that contest maby ur right ....i dont belive half wat is said in here ...except in aljazera....however...if the drawers of the pics and the paper apologized than the problem is in miss in reciving info.
actualy if what u say is true then we have delevired our masseege to the world that our relegion is not to be moked.
and i tell u this with all do respect if i make sure that there was an apology from all who were risponsible then first thibg i ll do tommorow i ll go to the next supermarkets andtell them to resume buying danish goods and to get things back the way they were
last my ppl used to say (Egyptians) maby a bad thing that helps....(pardon my bad english) maby we met eachother as west and east in this huge miss contact understanding and link between both of us .... maby u learned somth from us as we did from u....  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:14 by A Dane @86.52.105.106 : Communication is difficult
Amen!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:16 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : roxana
am very sorry but i never meant to generalize though i did .......  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:16 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : Thank you ming
Thank you ming! You are absolutely right, we are talking apples and oranges here. On the other hand, that is easy for you and me to say, because we were not on the offended side. Yes, we speak apples and oranges, and therefore it is soo important that we try to listen to each other now, and understand what both sides are trying to communicate. Thank you again!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:17 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : Communication is difficult
amen .....me too :)  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:22 by Roxana @67.68.73.120 : to shaykhoon
salam shaykhoon

you see how we get angry because there is a small group of muslims who are extreme and ruin it for everybody else? Well there was a small group of journalists who "spoke" for all of Denmark. We have to be careful when we jump to conclusion....muslims hate being stereotyped, well so does everybody else.
Don't worry about the comment lol.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:25 by vibrani : It's impossible to get through
to people, aka Shaykoon, who actually believe that God chose them over everybody else. Impossible. Impossible to talk with people who don't even understand their own religion yet preach like they do, or who are totally unaccepting the fact that there are millions of other views.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:29 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : vibrani
with all do respect i am starting to think of u as an outsider who just wanna bring back the miss understanding and just keep us in conflect here...plz be quite and kindly just leave this convesation  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:29 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : SHAYKHOON
Hey, I think we got a breakthrough here! Classic example of how listening and communicating can solve problems! We did it, SHAYKHOON! Be happy, I am! We listened to each other, and talked about it in a respectful way, and now I understand why you are so hurt, and you understand why this all happened in the first place. We did good! *handshake*
Thank you for listening to me. And I hope that that apology will reach your part of the world soon. Take care!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:31 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : roxana
salam roxana and peace be with u....  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:33 by Roxana @67.68.73.120 : to vibrani
first off, I've been reading your comments for a while now, and I'm getting annoyed. Can you stop insulting others?? Like I know you're mad, but just shut up and calm down first, please!!! If you can't see that people accept other religions, BUT THEN GET OFFENDED WHEN THEY FEEL DISRESPECTED, then how on earth are you ever going to solve any issues??  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:35 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : vibrani
Hey, vibrani. Who's the one that it's impossible to get through to? Why is your view of things the only correct one? Maybe you are wrong, maybe shaykhoon is wrong, maybe there is no right, maybe there is no wrong. Come on, darling, open your mind to other views of the world than your own. It could actually be interesting. And I'm not saying, be a muslim, I'm just saying that maybe you can learn something about life if you talk to one in a sensible, respectful way.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:35 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : lisa....paece be with u
lisa thank you and all the ones who have been very civilized in comunicating here ...i am happy . and our prob. is solved ( in gods name) may peace be with u and i hope nothing els happens between us again we can live friendly ( in GODS will ) from now on....:)))  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:42 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : SHAYKHOON
Peace be with you too!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:44 by Roxana @67.68.73.120 : to lise and shaykoon
salam shaykoon and lise
yes our problem is solved. Shaykoon, it's a muslim's duty to be calm when faced with anger and injustice. Inshallah everything will be resolved. But for now it's important for you to go and communicate this to others. Lise, same for you babe!! I know you feel like an island in the middle of a hostile ocean (trust me I feel the same as a convert to islam of european birth) but you're doing the right thing. Shaykhoon, you're in the middle east ya, Egypt? Communicate with people around you to stop this stupid violence, me I'm in Canada, I'll do the same, and Lise, you're in Sweden so you do the same. It will work in the end.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:46 by vibrani : Lisa
look at his pattern - he is only willing to hear you out and maybe see you as a human being if you sympathize with him. ONLY WITH HIM. The only other agenda he has is to manipulate to make people accept his radical views. He's not the least bit interested in alternative ways of thinking, of compassion, of understanding. Open your mind, Lisa, and see what's going on. He's filled with hatred and self-righteousness and stupidity. Because if one has a brain, one questions, one seeks answers for one's self, one doesn't just follow what they've been taught all of their lives unless they're a mindless robot. The guy can't even admit he has no understanding of his own religion of or facts of history or current affairs. Did you see how long it took him to admit how women are treated in Muslim culture? Denial! It's impossible to get through to people like this. They don't use their heart. They're selfish and they're playing you.

I tried to have a civilized discussion with him - he turns it always back into hatred for anything not of his particular brand of Islam.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:50 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : Roxana ..and lisa
am on ur side thats my mission now is to stop ppl here from pushing more violance ....we were never ordered to ... may GOD bless ur way roxana and gaurd u ...lisa ur job now is to make ur ppl understand that it was just miss communication as urs roxana....may GOD bless u both ...and last peace be with u all ......vibrani too...
( by the way lisa i didnt know ur from sweeden but i have frnds thier :) )  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:53 by vibrani : Shaykhoon
do you also send wishes of peace to Jews and Christians and Buddhists?  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:57 by hulya kesmen @85.101.5.0 : NO PREJUDICE PLEASE!!!
When I first saw the cartoons of Mohammad I happened to think that "oh! this is Usame Bin Laden!" and as a Muslim I got very angry. How do the Danes and other people not understand the reason of our anger? We are really fed up with the prejudice of the "West" against us. Just because of some deviant "so-called" pious muslims, the name of Islam is being slandered. This is not fair. I have read Koran(Quran),the life of Mohammad, the history of Islam and the sayings of Mohammad several times. None of them includes such silly things that are commited by those who disrepute our belief. Unlike the claims, Mohammad never said negative words against good things. He never degraded women; on the contrary he told the men to respect them. He was against blood feud. He told his followers to help the poor, etc. And now, while knowing all these facts how can we be silent? I am angry, but I don't blame you. All we have prejudices and misunderstand something just because of the wrong models shown to us. However,we can change our minds. I want you to read the sayings and life of our respectable prophet. Especially his farewell speech. Also, I have read the booklet of a great novelist, Tolstoy, in which he wrote the sayings of Mohammad and Tolstoy's own thoughts about Islam. I suggest you to read this important booklet. We real Muslims can no longer let you make fun of such a perfect prophet. First you know him well, then you'll have the right to speak. You cannot judge him and all the Muslims and Islam by looking at the murderers hiding behind the name of Islam. They are just the ones who abuse our religion in order to justify their crimes and heresies. Do not be fooled..  

8 Feb 2006 @ 01:59 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : vibrani
1st
te thing that u call us robots by doing is our relegion we beleave that if we follow it we go to heaven...u dont belive that so what its ok but let us do...about hatred ...i never hated anybody in my life .... i never said anything ba to u ...+ when ur saying these words ur smelling all racism i donno whats wrong with u but i am still happy of the breakthrough ....not one opinion will make me fall and soon u will understand......  

8 Feb 2006 @ 02:01 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : vibrani
as for chrestians in egypt here we have lots of chrestians and they are like my breathren ....and as for jewes ....sorry never been honored to meet one :)  

8 Feb 2006 @ 02:05 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : vibrani
and just knew the lastt word ... the only budahiest i ever met was on tv ...:) and he was very king and good person...he was the delaylama  

8 Feb 2006 @ 02:10 by vibrani : I would like to believe you
because it's a far cry from the stuff you wrote previously. The Dalai Lama is a very good man. He's a spiritual and religious leader and can laugh at himself and also speak out when something isn't right, and NOT use violence as a solution to anything. He teaches compassion.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 02:16 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.222.25 : i guess am over here for now
yes he is vibrani ....there was a show lately about heaven they asked him a shaik a pope and a jew priest (sorry donnno his exact name) and actualy i liked the delay lamma the most ( as a person ).....
so i have finnished my part for today ......see u all later and peace be with u ALL  

8 Feb 2006 @ 02:20 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : vibrani
vibrani, honey... that's the beauty of living in a democracy... you are allowed to speak your mind.
Did you question yourself why he returned your comments with hatred? could it be that your comments show that you do not respect him? That you in fact dislike muslims, and think that they are stupid? If someone says they don't like you, or say that all your beliefs and opinions are wrong, and that any person with a brain should know that, you'd be pretty defensive as well.
I don't think that he is filled with hatred. He proved that by listening to me, and respectfully communicate his feelings to me.
Once again vibrani, you have to separate the regular person with islamic beliefs, from the maniacs who bomb embassies on TV. Those people only use the religion to get power. You might benefit from reading up a little bit on islam, and maybe talk to a muslim of your community. If you can see past your fears, that is. Because that is what I think this boils down to. Fear.
Do you really think that your way of doing things is gonna lead to a world that can live in peace, side-by-side, and respect and accept each other? That by accusing muslims of being stupid, because they don't see things your ways, you're gonna solve the problem?
The thing is that if you study the Quraan, you will see that you are not allowed to force islam upon anyone. The Quraan speaks of respect for other people, respect for other religions. Again you have to separate this from the people that think that they can gain power by violence. Those people do not follow the Quraan.
The fact that many women are treated badly in arabic coutries is often a result of traditions and culture, not the religion itself.
You claim to be educated, but to me it seems you have only read the books that agree with you. That is not a way to educate yourself.
As for Shaykhoon, he just wants to be accepted, just as you and me want to be accepted.
To say that he is stupid, is not gonna get you where you want to go. There is only one earth, so maybe we should try and live here without throwing pies in each others faces all the time...  

8 Feb 2006 @ 02:25 by vibrani : Lisa
read back to the beginning of my conversation with him - you'll see differently, perhaps. Please don't teach me how to see people. You're not aware of who I am and what I know and what I do. Gad, you're so way off the mark.

Did you read my article, Lisa? My last resort is calling someone stupid, but when their actions and words are stupid, yup. Shaykhoon wants to be accepted? He was, but he turned it against people here, back and forth. No one said he couldn't be a Muslim, but to preach hatered and threats and violence and lies - that's too much to expect me to accept.

As for how women are treated, it is a combination of culture with religion, religion plays a HUGE role in it.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 02:39 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : For hulya kesmen
Hi! I think you should read my discussion with SHAYKHOON and also ming's and roxana's comments on this messageboard (from today). I think that you will be surprised and happy to see what we have accomplished.
There will always be prejudice people that don't agree with you, that will not think that your prophet is the greatest of all, but still you have to respect that. Actually it's your duty as a muslim, have I been told by my muslim friend Roxana. By doing so you will put yourself above the violence and bad-mouthing. There will also be people, like me, that don't agree with you about religion, but respect your beliefs, and are sorry that feelings were hurt, when that was not the intention (refer to mings talk about apples and oranges).
I agree with you that education is important, but it cannot go one-way. To understand why the western world reacted the way it has, please read up on democracy. I would also like to add, that many Scandinavians are afraid that extremists will hurt our countries now. That fear is just as evident as your feeling of insult. Many people cannot see past their fears and stop generalizing. But being here, reading and posting comments on this messageboard, is a step in the right direction.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 02:40 by Redco @62.114.93.73 : for who says Islam is terrorism


Hello all,

i want to talk about what i read here , so i would like you to read what i will say
and think about it with fair and open mind , thanks in advance

to start with terrorism is one of the most unliked , hated thing whatever its reasons
there is NO RELIGON order or accept it , it is something totaly forbidden and unaccepted
by all Religons , all Religons are for One GOD , One Creator , whom made those religons
how can God order his people to do bad thing in his religons ????
from this i start talking about why do ppl back the terrorism to Islam and Muslims
Islam never accepted terrorism or ordered it , over all the Islamic History terrorism is something bad
evil and never accepted , if we will talk about terrorism it is not something related to religon or country
or skin color or person clothes , it is related to a group of sick minded people whom went against the rules,laws
and God's orders in all his religons , it cant be related to a relgion because some of the people who did it are
believers of this religon

look at your fingers in the same hand , the finger prints are they the same ??? they are fingers of the same hand , same blood same everything
are they the same ??? , even twins arent the same , not cuz one or more bad person did something wrong which is already
against the religon( God's Law) and humans made law , a whole Religon or country said to be so


a question it is called "Religon" whats the meaning of this word , can someone answer me ??? how can this word
be related to something bad or evil ??? , i want you to think about it for a while deep thinking

once a person who is terrorist which is something evil and bad , he is not a good person , he has no religon cuz
his religon whatever it is doesn't accept it, so simply we can say that a specific religon is terrorism , read, know
and understand the Religon history and bases before you say it is something

if we will talk about terrorism and freedom , first i would like you to see what happen to us in Iraq,Palastien
and other countries , see these pictures as an example of "Freedom Of Your Countries In Ours" , which the some
TV-news channels in your countries doesnt want you to see it

[link]

after you read it

i want to ask few questions

is this the freedom you want in our countries and talk about it ???
killing incent people?? killing men ?? rape women ??? cutting a child who is 2 days birth into two halves infront of
his parents ???

how could you say that it is freedom , is this your freedom you are talking about , the freedom which we dont have

may i ask how can be a girl going to school at morning got shot by a sniper in her head from a tower , cuz he
thought she is a threat OMG!!!!! whats this ??? tell me !

may i ask how can a child who is 2 days birth cutten into 2 havles , WHY ??? tell me WHY?? is the reason that
you think that he may be bad person ?!!! comeon whats this ?? someone explain it to me

may i ask how can women get raped by soldiers one after another ???????? is this your freedom ?? rape our women , sisters
mothers , daughters ????

may i ask how can it be freedom of what happened in Abu-Gharib prison ???? a naked prisoner infront of dogs ???
a female soldier infront of a group line of NAKED men prisoners while she is pointing with her hands to thier male parts ???
is this what you call "FREEDOM" ?? rape prisoned women ??? what is this FOR GOD SAKE someone explain it to me
someone who can show me what a pretty peacefull fair respected pure FREEDOM is this ??

may i ask when destroying those people houses by tanks , oooh what a freedom ?



may i ask is this boy whom his head became like a rubber with nothing inside it anymore in this pic , thats your freedom , you know
what i respect your freedom now

a person who wake up to die! , wake up to see that his house is being shot or burned by fire , or a bomb is thrown at it ???
Freedom yea sure it is

u still call it freedom , oh wow great and so nice of you to lets us see feel and like such a freedom

may i ask when a person with nothing standing infront of a tank or group of soldiers who point thier guns in his face , thats freedom
when this person hold a stone , just a stone in his hand to protect him self OHHHHHH A TERRORIST OMG KILL HIM !!! is this it ??

let me say it again and think about it , a man with a stone in his hand standing infront of full armed soldiers and tanks targeting him and
pointing their weapons in his face,he is the one he is the terrorists , wow new information i never knew, thanks for telling me and showing me it

what a freedom?!!!

freedom full of pain , dies , blood and cries , freedom , you still call this freedom , what and which freedom ?? freedom to kill ??? rape ?? tortune ??
thank you for showing us the right way and the right path for freedom , we appreciate it , thank you alot.......OMG


when those people defend them selves you call them terrorists , when your troops kill rape and tortune you call them angels of freedom and peace ?????


i don't want to talk and just talk , i want you people i need you people to think about it , open your minds and hearts
have some mecry , think with some wisdom , is this what you talked about of freedom that we don't have ,

tell me what would you do , if you see you father get shot or killed infront of you , tell me what would you do if your mother sister or daughter got raped
by more than a person infront of your eyes and you got kicked and beated till you can't move a muscle to defend or protect them , what would you do
if you see your child taken away from you , shot in his or her head and heart while going to school , what would you do if you see your 2 days birth got
cutten into 2 halves by 2 soldiers infront of thier parents , what would you do if your 2,5 or 3 years so little young child got SHOT IN HIS HEART in his stomach
in his head what would you do , FOR GOD'S SAKE ANSWER ME WHAT WOULD YOU DO ???? , If it was you in there , if it was your father or son , mother or daugther , brother or sister
what would you do ,

i wish you to see how much pain you do in our people see thier faces , hear thier cries , watch thier blood in streets , watching them going away from you simply and so easy dies


this had never been accepted by Any Religon or Any Holy Book , i bet on it , there is no religon which may say so , NEVER EVER

last thing i would like to say , open your minds , don't just give it your backs , think about it , feel and see what really happenes
i won't ask you for mercy , because you arent the people who would give it to us , the only one is GOD

for you i want to say "Islam was never and will never be with terrorism it is One of God's Religons , Islam is not terrorism and for whom who think or say so ,
i beg you to really read and know Islam better read its history and understand it right"

Islam is one of God's religons and the last one of them , Islam word in arabic means salam which is peace , hello in Islam is ( Al Salam Alykom Warhmat Allah Wabrkatoh ) which means
Peace,God's Mercy and be upon you , that's just the most simple example about Islam , but you really need to know Islam as real.

about denmark topic well

you talk about the newspaper of denmark , why would we beccot a whole country ??? let me ask simple question

Saddam Hussien was one man one person , and if your countries wanted to get him in a second they could , for him , you killed and burned this country
for him you destroyed the whole country , full of fear pain cries blood , screams of children , no home no food

of course thats not the reason but i just want you to see and compare!!!

the proplem is that you don't understand why we didn't accept such thing

for us as Muslims, Our religon and Our Prophet means so much to us , means more than us , than our fathers mothers children brothers and sisters
mean more than our lives , Religon is a base for us , we can't accept someone who come to insult our religon and prophet sorry thats not freedom


some of you may say its okay , as i talked to someone who told me it is okay there they can insult Jesus , president country or whatever its okay with them
, but about us sorry thats not the same , if you don't respect your believes at least respect us and respect that we have believes and respect that our
believes means so much to us , respect that we can't accept that our believes Religon and Prophet get insulted , if you accept it for your own religon
we don't accept it for us , try to understand it , have some respect to others and thier believes , you got shocked from our reactions about it
well thats because you don't know how much does it mean to us , you must know that before you do such a thing , and would like to remind also
with the decree which the Human Rights Agency in the United Nations adopted on the 12th of
April, 2005. This decree insisted on the ban of distortions and vicious
attacks against religions and especially Islam; which had been strongly
attacked in the last few years

thats what i can say for now


it is the least thing we can do


thank you all for reading my post and hope you think about it with fair and open minded and heart full of feelings.

Best Regards  

8 Feb 2006 @ 02:46 by Redco @62.114.93.73 : i dont know if it is allowed or not
i dont know if it was allowed to post the pic shown but i just added its link and didnt use an HTML code to show it up  

8 Feb 2006 @ 02:53 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : vibrani
I admit, I got into this conversation in the middle somewhere, and I haven't read it from the very start. So who are you, what do you do and what do you know? I read your article from feb 7. Already at the beginning you go wrong, by saying "these guys". Who do you mean by "these guys"? Is it Fatima, that lives peacfully in the countryside, where she practice her religion, without bothering anyone, or do you mean Usama bin Ladin and his gang? I think you mean Usama. But by saying "these guys" you say that all muslims are like Usama, and that is simply not true, I know that and you should know that. I think that is why so many muslims were so offened. They are not all suicide bombers. I don't think that you are stupid, you prove that by having this conversation right now. But loosing your temper doesn't get you anywhere. Asking yourself what lies behind the hurt feelings, might on the other hand get you very far. Don't you think that we did good, Shaykhoon and I?  

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:00 by vibrani : Photo
Right....here's a Palestinian Muslim baby dressed up as a terrorist/suicide bomber. What indoctrination is going on and they've had sixty decades of brainwashing just in this region to kill Jews and take over Israel.
 

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:03 by vibrani : Lisa
my focus has always been coming together with what is shared in common among all people, to realize that we all come from the same Source. But, in order for that to happen, some people have to give up the ridiculous notion that their religion is superior to all others, and that those not of their religion must die. As I've said ad nauseum, there are peaceful Muslims, but few that we know of and they do not take a stand against the violence. That's their fear at work, and maybe they also sympathize with the terrorists because they are Muslims, too. What must happen for peace to reign is for everybody to heal their own inner terrorist and anger issues, and to open their hearts and have compassion and respect for others. You can't change what you don't own. Consciousness shifting.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:19 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : Redco
Redco! I hear your cry! I am from Sweden, i.e. the western world, but I would never, repeat NEVER, justify, the wrongs that has been done to your country. Killing is never right, NEVER! Not even when it is for the cause of freedom. I agree, what you portray is not freedom. My freedom, that is so important to me, cannot be forced upon you in the blink of an eye. It doesn't work that way.
I cannot even begin to imagine what you and the Iraqii people have gone through these last couple of years. I live in a peaceful country, where I feel safe going to bed at night. How could I possibly understand? Still, I want you to know that I cry when I see these pictures. I cry when I read your text. It hurts, to the very deepest core of my heart, and I hope that you can believe me.
I cannot make right what others have done wrong, my apology will not help you. But I hope that you can find some comfort in knowing that there are people, even in the western world, that thinks this is sooo wrong. That are willing to hear your story, your truth, and try to spread the knowledge.
I feel that I don't even have the right to ask you to understand Denmark. But I hope that you will read our comments here feb7 and 8, by Shaykhoon, me Lisa, Roxana and ming, and that you will find some peace in it.
I am sorry Redco, I am so sorry!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:19 by Redco @62.114.93.73 : RE: Photo
mr vibrani , read my post well please =]  

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:21 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.178.81 : vibrani
why will any one belive in a relegion unless he dont think its superior .....not the one who beleaves in it but the relegion it self ...think about it....by thinking that he follows what ever his relegion says and as strong as he is in faith as loved as u find him.....tell me who in the world can hate a pope for example.....relegion takes u closer to peace and how to live with otheres .........and how to accept them ....wether u or i like it or not we all are going to live on this earth so we have to make it work between us ... u have to accept me as i accept u...  

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:26 by vibrani : Because
thinking it's superior is missing the point of religion (removing here the need to control). Religion is to help you get closer to God, help you remember who you are, not to be better than anybody else. It's not about ego. Look at any religious fundamentalists, Christian, Catholic, whatever, they're all the same because they're caught up in the ego, not the spirituality.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:33 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.178.81 : again vibrani
still vibrani u havent got what i wrote ....i meant the supremacy of relegion not ppl ....no one is better than the other only GOD decides that....but stil i mean the supreamacy of islam in our mindes .....................like when u love somth. that means that u think its better ...just get me right here plz... i never said i was better or els i just said that when i see my relegion is better thats simply y i beleave in it as u see urs better thats y u beleave in it .....it is as simple as that.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:34 by Redco @62.114.93.73 : Lisa
i know that some people know and feel it , at the end we are all humans have feelings , this is an example of what happen to Iraq , while Palastien this happen to is from more than 50 years , i wish that at least you see or know the truth of what happens there in reality , because as i said up we are all humans have feelings , i don't think a person with a mind heart and good feelings can accept this , in this moment now while i am writting this , think of how many children get killed at this second , how many women get raped at this instant , how many homes get destroyed , how do u expect a child or a kid to live , paniced with all the blood he see everywhere , with no home no food no nothing , while he hear gun shots everywhere , what is this ? how can he possible feel peace and live a normal life of a normal kid in his age ? that had stolen his life , his carrer his everything , he can't even defend him self he is full of fear inside him , what can he be anything ?? i hope people understand it , our kids children future got killed , thier dreams got shot by a gun , thier peacfull life withing thier loving family is simply runined :'(  

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:39 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : vibrani
The thing is that you are right. You just need to clarify that you are talking about Usama, and the other crazy people, when you say some guys. Because these guys, Usama and his gang, really needs to reevaluate their lives. But, I know for sure, that there are many muslims in Sweden that do take a stand against the violence. To be honest, most muslims in the world, say that it is wrong to use violence. You have to know that? To be put in a negetive group, for instance suicide-bombers, that you feel that you don't belong to (which I am sure Shaykhoon does not belong to), is offending. If someone put you among the mentally challenged kids in school, you'd be offended, right?
I agree, there has to be some way to live side-by-side, and I think that we can get there. But we all, me too, need to broaden our horizon and try to see things through a different set of eyes once in a while. That's all I am saying.
I want to ask you something, and I want you to answer truthfully. If your family for years had been pointed fingers at, hearing people talk behind your back about how stupid you are, even killing your cousin that lived in another country, because they said he was too stupid. Wouldn't you be upset, if someone drew a picture of you as a baby in a grown body, saying that you mentally never left the 5 y.o. stage? I think you would. I know I would.
There are always going to be people that take advantage of situations like this, to gain more power. But we're not talking about those people now. We're talking about Fatima in the countryside, or Ahmed next door...  

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:42 by vibrani : Shaykhoon
you wrote earlier that God chose Muslims over everybody else. That was clear.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:44 by vibrani : Oh Lisa
I have relatives in other countries where they live with terrorism every day of their lives. I grew up with Holocaust survivors who were in the camps and tortured and lost their families to the Nazis. Does that make me go out and kill others - no. Does it make me destroy their homes or businesses? No. Does it make me demand they obey my religion or spirituality? No. I've experienced prejudice in several places around the world, myself. Know what I mean? There are CHOICES in how one lives their life. One can be peaceful or violent. It's a choice.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:50 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.178.81 : Vibrani Vibrani......
i didnt say over every body els i said when sons of israel failed GOD in thier mission he chose us to complete it ,as u were talking about Quraan ......dont just take two words of my whole speech to use it against me......+ dont bring this problem in here the problem between arabs and israeles we will solve it sooner or later ... but not here when we were talking about somth. els......  

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:51 by vibrani : You said it
not I. I quoted you. To say the sons if Israel failed, God (according to Mohammad, not anybody else at that time) chose Muslims to complete it? What the hell is that bullshit? That's what I mean. It is the ILLUSION that you are superior to everyone else. That is not the way towards understanding squat, not God, not anybody else, it is not the way to peace. Remember Mohammad lied, and he was kicked out of ancient Israel? Of course he would have to think he was superior to have backing.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 03:58 by SHAYKHOON @82.201.178.81 : to sain ppl
look vibrani u are here to creat problems ur again mokeing my relegion by sayaing bullshit though i told u its quraan ...my holy book... and i dont want no problems so as u are not going i am going and thank GOD that i met sain ppl here like Lisa Ming and the others .......
so just peace be apone u all and Good night am going to sleep this time bye  

8 Feb 2006 @ 04:01 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : vibrani
Of course there are choices in life. I think that you and I are choosing the right path just talking to each other here.

A comment to vibrani and Shaykhoon: I think you are still talking apples and oranges.
Vibrani, Shaykhoon's God chooses muslims over others. You would choose your mother over him, now wouldn't you? Don't you see?!
He's trying to explain to you what he means, plz listen to him. Just because he believes in islam, and that his god chose muslims first, doesn't have to mean that he doesn't respect you?
I wasn't asking if you killed others, (of course you wouldn't). I was asking if you could maybe understand, mentally, why muslims are upset? Not Usama and his gang, they are not upset, they use this as a tool, but we are not talking about them now. Can you not see that there is a distinction between them?  

8 Feb 2006 @ 04:03 by vibrani : See?
That's exactly the problem. I didn't say your religion was bullshit, I say it's bullshit to think that it's superior to any other religion. And if you're being taught that, it's EGO, not spirituality, it's not the truth, either. It's a lie and instead of having a mind that can question it, you can't even deal with someone saying this to you. I wonder who you'd be without your koran. Ever wonder about that? No, Lisa, he's not saying that. He's saying that everyone who came before or after Mohammad wasn't good enough - ergo, making him superior. If you think your God idea is the best for you, fine. That's what I've said in my article. But, to say it's superior to everybody else - everyone who was created by God, is ludicrous.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 04:07 by Redco @62.114.93.73 : Vibrani
first watch your words because what Shaykhoon said is in our Holy Book Qu'raan it wasnt just what Muhammed said
second i see that you are always picking up and just making a fight no more , just because you are against arabs or whatever , you hate , for me i dont hate , but there is God who see what happens
third i would like to tell you what do you even know about Islam or Muhammed , i think you understand what i mean and i understand what i mean , you don't know or learned Islam as it is truely , so don't just say anything in something you don't know so that you show others it is something bad
fourth i would like to tell you and inform you that Muhammed is a person who never betrayed never lied , and i would like you to go and read the history not the one which a person who already hate Islam or Muhammed wrote it , just read a real History or Islam and Muhammed , and you will see it before even he be a prophet the people called him "The Person Who Never lies , the most trusted for others belonings" the people leave thier things with him so that he keep it for them till they come back , and that's cause all of them know that he is so trusted and good person , THAT'S EVEN BEFORE HE IS A PROPHET

last to say , just keep respect of what you say about our religon and prophet , as we respect yours , thanks  

8 Feb 2006 @ 04:09 by ming : Taboo
Roxana, yes, if one accidentally steps on a taboo, and one didn't mean to, good manners is to apologize. If I put my feet up on the table, because I'm tired and want to relax, and I realize that in your culture it is a great insult to point my feet towards you, I'd take them down and apologize. Because I didn't mean to be unfriendly or offensive, I just meant to relax.

That's when we have a direct interaction. It could work a similar way if a newspaper accidentally published something that was very insulting to some group. Maybe some text in a foreign language, and they didn't know what it meant before they published it.

In this case they did know that some Muslims probably would be offended. That's not the direct reason they published them. But, yes, it would be a good idea to apologize and say that they didn't mean any offense.

Now it gets more complicated when the discussion then is about whether you have a right to insist that I don't do that which offends you. That is very different. If putting my feet on the table offends you, I'll probably apologize, and maybe go outside and put my feet up somewhere else. If you insist that I can't put my feet up anywhere, that's where we have a problem.

If I were in a company that made a billboard that accidentally had an image that was very offensive to a certain religious group, we'd probably take it down, and apologize. Because that's not the message we intended to send.

But if maybe I'm an artist and I want to create a particular image, I might know or I might learn that a different group would take offense to it, and I might still want to maintain that exact image, because it fits my message. I might want to explain that I didn't mean it the way it is interpreted by some people. Or, I might actually intend to be provocative. In that case, maybe the only apology I can give is "I'm sorry you don't like my work, but you're free to not look at it".

If one is friendly and polite, one will usually try not to offend people, and one will apologize if one does. But not to be offended is not a universal human right. You can't really insist on never being offended. Most particularly, you can not insist on never feeling offended, because your feelings are entirely your own.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 04:13 by Redco @62.114.93.73 : Yes lisa - again vibrani
yes lisa , i agree with what you say , and for you vibrani again what shaykhoon said is from Qura'an so now once and for all to finish this because you are going so far now , insulting and mocking our religon and prophet we don't accept it so please have some respect with this , + that's wasn't the main topic we are talking about , + it isn't ego it is what our HOLY BOOK SAID , we say what our Holy book said , and that's not an ego
so peace up  

8 Feb 2006 @ 04:18 by vibrani : I don't think you know the difference
so I am through talking with people who can't question anything they've been taught to think and don't see that their ego, and their religion's ego, has a bad effect upon non-Muslims. So one can just as easily suggest that you owe us an apology. Where would you be without religion? Who would you be with your Koran? What if there was no book? What would God be to you? Can you even fantasize about it? How would you find God on your own? You can't do this - you are so conditioned.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 04:22 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : vibrani
Actually, you did say that his religion is BS. Because, that is a part of his religion. He didn't say, when he woke up this morning: Hehe, today I'm gonna go around telling everybody that I'm better than them. Actually, he's not even allowed to do that, because that is pride, and not allowed in islam.
The thing is that you got hooked on one little thing that you cannot let go of. Every religion has it's flaws. It's easier to see from the outside, from your and my point of view. He doesn't see it that way. If you ask any religios person (and we are not talking about Dalai Lama here), he's gonna say that his religion is the best. Of course he thinks that, that is why he believes in it.

But you are not even trying to understand why he's upset in the first place. I need to go to bed, and I think my words are lost on you. I think that you are trying to be respectful but fear is stopping you to go all the way. I hope that some day you will be able to see the world through his eyes, for a moment, so that maybe you can begin to understand, and respect him for what he is. A human being, with different beliefs than you.
You can't demand respect without being respectful yourself. Think about that! Take care.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 04:29 by Lisa @83.249.51.157 : ming
Ming, you are a smart guy! Wish I had your ability to clarify things.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 04:32 by Redco @62.114.93.73 : vibrani
sorry now i must end the coversation with you vibrani because you show no respect at all to our believs or religon , and i will not enter a converstation with someone who don't respect the other while talking , you keep insulting and we keep respecting so for now i am going to bed too , maybe one day you will understand because what you do here is just because Arabs and Israel anyway so no need for it + it is not the topic here , by the way read Gadrian news paper of England , about a Fish topic and see what does it says , later i will come and show it to all here , see ya all later ,wish u all have peacfull and good life

Best Regards,  

8 Feb 2006 @ 04:33 by vibrani : Whatever Lisa
I see that you miss my point, too, and judge me without understanding me AT ALL! It's very easy to get in a huff and use the excuse that someone insults your religion when they point things out, so it gives you license to abuse them and demand apologies for imagined things. I think that's not very brave or fair. It's a lost cause.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 04:36 by vibrani : Oh boo hoo
cry me a river....and it's back to square one. As if your feelings and religion are the only ones that matter. I don't want any apologies, or need them. Maybe some other people do, though. My sole intention was to open minds, work towards peace, dispel myths. You have bought into a huge illusion. That's fine. It is something your soul needs. Keep it to yourself, please. I don't need it. We already share in one illusion here on earth, being in a body. No matter what you say, the Muslim reaction to the cartoons proves the cartoons to be an accurate display. (It's also not in my nature or habit to lie, and I would not be me if not tell you exactly what I think and feel, I would not be serving the highest to lie to you.) One day, some day, you'll know more about what God is and will you be surprised.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 07:55 by Aziz A @64.213.98.17 : to another danish guy
All Muslims criticise, fight, hate and demonstrate against the killers who kill people in unjustified manner. Our holy book(Kuran) prevented strongly killing innocent people regardless their religion or nationality, so according to Kuran any person kills another without urgent reason would be treated as if he kills all people. So, this is what prophet Mohammad said. So, the majority of Muslems and their governments fighting terrorism in their countries, that is why terrorists mostly work secretly, so you and your governments have to fight any one insult another. I think governments represent their citizins so it is no problem if apologise instead of them or to correct their bad behavior.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 09:06 by Another Danish Guy @80.164.65.4 : To Aziz
U must understand why something like 80% Danes didn´t think the goverment should not apologise, if they apologise it is as saying ok we offended muslims, but as we showed it was a newpaper that has haven´t and can not speak for our country, they apoligised after a protest by people here both muslims and non muslims that found it unacceptable, and the muslims accpeted.
Danes get offended too when the world show us as people trying to make a conflict, witch we have nothing to do with, the newspaper wasen´t trying to make a conflict either, but they did and apologised.

And i see some people think that the newspaper spread the drawings to other countrys this is a misinfomation the drawings was spread by danish muslims, and as i read a reporter in Jordan found out some of the drawings was never even shown in Denmark.

I think after the newspaper apologised (and muslims accpeted) then that is the end of it for people now let the courts do there job. as long as this continue the hate will only grow.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 09:08 by Another Danish Guy @80.164.65.4 : to all
but it´s good to see we finally start understanding eachother if the world react and are willing to lisen as people here there are still hope  

8 Feb 2006 @ 10:14 by Obaid essa @195.229.242.52 : As-salaam Alaikum
To you who have arrived here at this particular address to hear this subject, Christianity versus Islam, I thank you and I feel more than honored at your presence here this afternoon. And I thank each and every one of you whether you are a common laborer, whether you are blind, deaf and dumb or whether you are a professor of a college or a university. I thank you for your presence here this afternoon.

We the Muslims greet you As-Salaam-Alaikum which means peace be unto you. This is an Arab word for peace. In going after this subject this afternoon, we must remember whether or not there is time for such understanding - or we will just say - a show down between the two religions. If it's not time we [will] not be successful in trying to make you understand the truth and if this is the time, we will know by your understanding and we will know by your actions or reactions to the truth.

We may sum up a few events of the past, we take back 6,000 years ago according to the word of Almighty God Allah when this world was being fashioned, the white man's world, we have on the pages of history, much confusion, much conflict between Islam or the Muslims, are the builders or manufacturers of this world. We have arrived now at the day we call 6,000 years from the creation of the white man's world. And according to the prophecy, according to your own understanding of the history, the truth must be told. I hope that I don't irritate you; truth is a little thing that hurts. I didn't come out here to dominate your religion nor anyone's religion. I'm here to tell the truth.

We have lived under the whiteman's rule for, now, 6,000 years. Six days they work and on the seventh day rest. We are in the day of rest of their world, and you are surprised. Some of you are confused over what is taking place. But a knowledge of the history of this world and the prophecy explaining the ending of this world, you should not be surprised. Some of us have been so surprised that we go astray and exaggerate, heading in and out of the truth.

The so-called American Negro, who is not a Negro, but a slave name given to them by their slave-master, who had no love nor friendship for them, and after making them blind, deaf and dumb to the knowledge of themselves, they called them Negroes, which means something that is dead, lifeless, neutral. In words to say, that here stands a man that [has] no knowledge of himself and he's neutral, he's not one of us, nor is he one of their own kind, and that he's like something that is dead that you go take it and place it over here, sit it down or stand it up, it will remain in the position you put it in until you change that position.

These people have been mistreated by their slave-masters and the slave masters' children worse than any human being or beings that ever was on our planet earth according to history. We have suffered all kinds of cruelty, beatings, and murder, all the days since we have been in the Western Hemisphere; it's going on right at this hour. And today, truth must be told and the truth will free that man of his ignorant knowledge of his master and of himself.

I want you to remember again, that this subject, the two religions, it's not that I want you to go down on your knees and start praying this afternoon looking in the skies, no. I'm not actually teaching too much religion, because how can you learn religion unless you first learn yourself. Our people are so sold to religion; why, because they are the people of the divine family.

The so-called American Negroes [are] members of the Tribe of Shabazz. Shabazz was a scientist that went into what was then known as the jungle of East Asia, according to the Teachings of Almighty God, Allah, to me. Fifty thousand (50,000) years ago, he started with his family there in what you call today the jungles of Africa. There he taken his family and he started a civilization after his own ideas. He disagreed with the other 23 scientist and went for himself to prove what he thought was necessary for you and I to know, the same as Yakub. This particular knowledge awakens you; you can't read [it] in no 6,000 year old history.

The true knowledge or science of world that you and I are living in today was kept back, hidden and it was a secret among the scientist, until the world that you and I have known lived [out ] its time and work that it was created to do. Today we are closing in or rather it's disappearing and a new world is budding or giving birth in place of an old one.

We the so- called American Negroes, [are] members, I repeat, from a Tribe of ours by the name of Shabazz. This man 50,000 years ago, remember that fifty thousand (50,000) years ago, not 6,000 years ago, fifty thousand(50,000). We, the Nation of Islam, the Nation of righteous, the Nation of peace, we have always experimented among ourselves or on this and that, and that;s Why we know we are the greatest and the wisest people in the universe because our study of the life on other planets;we don't fine them experimenting among themselves or on their planet as we are; therefore, we know that we are the wisest people in the sun.

The so- called Negro, the black man, the lost and found member of a great original nation, the first on our planet: I want you to remember that we are the first on our planet. The planet did'nt come after or rather before us we was before the planet. I want you to pay good attention, take notes on what I say, attack me on the truth of it if you want to, I don't have time to contend with you here this afternoon in this short time that I am given, but you can write me, you can attack me through mail if you want to, I will answer you

Now, We, I say , was before the earth. We could not claim ourselves as being the creators of the universe: The Sun Moon and Star and the Earth, if we had been born or created after the earth. And if we came after the earth, then the earth is older then the God Who claimed to be master of the Earth.

There is so much talk going on today, since Almighty God Allah has visited us and revealed to us the truth that is necessary, very much necessary, that I go into the past to bring you up with the truth to the present time. Because that is the trouble with my people. They think they are inferior. They think they are something that God don't want Himself. They think that their particular knowledge and way of life is like that of all of our people, regardless to what part of earth the live in. And some think that they are superior in wisdom, in education than any of their kind in the earth.

This I say is a mistake that you are making yourself. It is due to the lack of knowledge of the black man. I want you to know these things before we go into argument over, ''he is teaching hate; he's teaching black supremacy."

I want to give to you the Blackmans' history. You can say that he's inferior. You can say that he's not superior. You can say that he's not the supreme people if you want to. That's up to you. But I will give you his history and I defy you to disprove it.

"We don't want religion." Some of us are so proud. There are a lot of Atheist being born among the people.

Today, living in a rich world and a fast world filled with sport and play, the so-called America Negro has been made drunken off such foolishness and today he's proud to walk around some of them and say "I don't believe in no God."

I want any Atheist to contend with me that he actually don't believe in a God. And I can prove to you that you are mistaken. You do believe in a God. One is Supreme over you. We all have that.

I say my beloved listeners, that if you feel that I am out of line, out of the order and law of the truth, you are welcome to attack me. But I would say, before I go further, I thank you, leaders of different organizations, as I have learned that some of you are here.

I thank you for your presence. And I hope that you and I can agree on facts and live in unity together. And some of you religious people that do not actually confess Islam, but you are religious people of your choice, I am happy that you are here.

Christianity, Islam, and the Hindu religion, or Buddhism, is three of the greatest religions of the people today; Christianity is the Youngest of them all..Buddhism is an old religion . And Islam is as old as God Himself.

Islam is not an organized religion. It's a religion to the very nature of God and His people. It is the natural religion of God and His people, so says the Holy Qur'an 30:30. And how do we say that it's not if we are from the first Father or the Creator of the Universe. Whatever His nature was, then we are that. If His nature was of evil, we are evil people. If His nature was good, then we are good people.

There is much confusion today over this revelation that has been revealed in America over the history of the two people, mainly black and white, that even I have lost a lot of friends amongst the Orthodox Muslims who are not able to agree that the nature in which we were created in is different from the nature of the white race, they are two different people Altogether. I am so sorry for your lack of knowledge of self and others, but if we can listen and try to huddle over the truth that is said or being taught, you should bear me witness that I am after good for you, not evil, but for good. I am not after you to tie you in with your slave-master to make you one of the members of his family, as he has already destroyed us. About 85% or 95% percent of us is destroyed by the slave master and his children according to one professor here today. Or, we don't have to do nothing but just glance at each other and we see and recognize the mark. You that want to further the destruction of your people, I want you to listen closely and after this, I hope you will bear witness to the truth that you would be a fool to destroy yourself.

We, the original people of the Earth, the universe, have no birth record; there is no such thing as 6,000 years ago God created the heavens and the earth and we are all from Adam. Get away from that story. We the Black Nation of the Planet Earth, are not from Adam; it is the white race that is from Adam, but not you and I. He was the beginning or the father of this race of people 6,000 years ago. He was a god himself, the father of this race of people, his name was yakub, they called him Jacob. He being a very smart and wise man with a large head, as you see that most of the white people have large heads, They used to call him the big head scientist in his day and time, because of the great massive head he had. I have to go after the history of you and I, to bring you up to our religion. We don't go and try to condemn without showing proof.

This particular nation of people, the black man, that my people have been made to despise, some of the college students, teachers and professors are even saying today that they don't even like black supremacy any more than they like white supremacy. They say now they don't like either one. I would like to question that professor on what kind of rule are you expecting to live under, or what color of people?

Since you have no knowledge of yourself and your history, and God Almighty has brought it to us, the best knower, that I am teaching to you today, I wish that you know this, that we were the supreme rulers for millions and billions of years. The white people that teach my people that I am teaching black supremacy only throws that in to make you dislike the truth that I'm teaching from God, and make you think that you are headed for trouble, as though they are not into white supremacy. They have been ruling us for 6,000 years and they think it,s something of a crime that we say, that the Blackman is Supreme ruler.

This, I want you to remember: that a long, long, long, long old time before the white man was ever thought of, we were ruling, not only this earth, but everything in the universe. We our Fathers, are the makers and fashioners of the universe. Our Fathers made it. One of our Fathers, 66 trillion years ago,- don't think I'm making a mistake-66 trillions years ago,-pricking and blast this earth or planet that we're on, divided it, and use one part of it for a light to serve as a light on this part, to reflect the light of the sun at night: we call it moon. That took place 66 trillion years ago, according to the teachings of Almighty God to me. Just a moment, that is not beginning of the Blackman,nor his creation to rule.

Six trillion years before that,we made the moon, to serve as a light to our earth, to take away Mars who had been serving as a moon to our earth the making of the present moon, it was Mars. This Mars was so far away. Almighty God Allah said they prepared this present lifeless piece of planet to reflect sunlight on our earth. It has a lot of affect on our earth, and on the vegetation, and on the lives of you and I. Some of the white people would like to go there and live, according to what I read.

I don't know why they want to go there, well I know why, but I don't know how they are going to live there. There is no life on that part of our planet. There's no water on it, unless it's somewhere in the heart of it, in a rock. And for 66 trillion years, she has been deprived of life, and water, vegetation, because after blasting away of that part of our earth, she lost all the water that was on that part, back on this part, after she was blast 12,000 miles away from the original pocket that we was in at that time.

This part dropped 36,000 miles, and found another pocket, and kept rotating, but the water we didn't lose, as we never lost water. Water you cannot destroy. That's a good sign of the God. You cannot destroy the God, the Black nation, with all of your planning, with all your science in murder or destruction of people, you cannot destroy all of us. You can destroy some of us, but not all of us.There're these scientists of the world, having ideas of trying to blow up these poison weapons, that if they are going, they want to carry us with them. It is their particular idea that they will do away with the earth with atomic weapon and hydrogen bombs, and I say you are mistaken, you won't be able to do that,because we have in our midst today a God that has the power over your thinking. He has power over what you do; you have it in your Bible,he created this mist that's suppose to go and brings out a weapon, listen, this is a warning to the enemy, and to the believer, that if I have power over his mist, I have power over his weapons; I have power over his thinking, and that he will learn through attacking me through my people, that he won't be able to win in a war with me. With the civilized people of the earth today, doing everything to destroy themselves, it is time that my people here know the truth and know how strong their nation is, and know how strong the God of the nation. The reason that you're trembling, fear in the face of white people, it is because of the lack of knowledge of yourself and the God of you and I, and the god that created the white man, and that people,and the limited knowledge that they have which is six (6). You have no right to fear white people today; to accept the truth, we are the winners; we are the victorious people; we will rule.We have been hear a long, long, time. It was a black man by the name of Yakub, 6,600 years ago who grafted the white race out of us. They are from us. They have tried to cover their birth and their father and their mother by saying that they came from sea life; then, if they came from sea life, then sea life is their god, or their father, or that they're from animals. They would rather say that most anything is their god. They don't like you and I, because of the very nature of which they were created. We can't look for brotherly love from a man that was made to be the enemy of you. You can't look for it, don't expect it. I am not angry with the white race because they hate me, they was made to hate me. We can't get away from that in which by nature we are.

So we have hear six days in the Bible that God created the heaven and the earth, we have six periods in the Holy Qur'an, and other periods that divided into six, that God created the heavens and the earth,but what you have in the Bible there, dated back to 6, 000 years ago, means this; That it had taken their father, Yakub, 600 years to make a race out of another race. He was grafting out of darkness, or out of the Blackman for 600 years, to bring out a complete white man altogether different by nature than that in which he was taken from. These are facts that I defy your colleges or university professors to dispute. There are so many of you whispering, going around saying," This old story, we all are from God; we are all brothers; we all are alike." I say to you my people, stop telling other than the truth, you are not like white people. You can't deceive God, nor can you deceive anyone whom God have opened His heart for understanding. You want them to think that you are in so much love with them because you have been made like that by them. You fear them because their fathers put fear in your fathers when they was babies. And now that you have nursed from your grandparents breast which has come down into the breast of the present mothers of the black people here, and every child that they birth has a trembling fear of white people. I say to you my friends, this will get you hell. What I would like that you do: come to Allah and accept Islam and that fear will be removed. You will not have any fear.You fear because you have no knowledge of that which you fear. Again I say to you, that these religions that are burning out or being born, so numerous for the last 6,000 years,it is due to the fact that Almighty God Allah did not try to teach or further His religion after the birth of the white race, because He had agreed to let the white race rule according to his own wishes. As you would find it in the Qur'an and you will find it in the Bible where that Adam was given authority over everything to rule it, that was the white race, bringing into subjection everything of life,even the fish of the sea, birds, animals, everything,all men other than their own race, they have accomplished that. And you have to give them credit, that they have done everything that the book said they would do. They have forced the black man to bow and submit to their rule for the past 6,000 years,and they have trained and made wild animals birds, sea life to submit to their rule, everything has submitted to them,but the God of heaven and a circle of scientists that they could never get into that circle, which is left to start a new world for the Blackman. I hope that you won't think hard of me for digging into these roots,but it takes these roots, pulled up out of the dark to show you yourself. You have heard probably that the truth shall be told, though I have read too the consequences of telling the truth in the last days; we're suffering that consequence,because 20 million blind,deaf and dumb,people here, spiritually blind, deaf,and dumb, is worth the life of myself and even a portion of my followers to bring in to the life of truth, but nevertheless the Jesus did not tell you what that truth was, that would make you free, you don't have it there, no. He could not tell you at that time, he was 2,000 years ahead of the time when the truth should be told. We're most hated because we have the knowledge of such truth. No man that is in power wants to be taken out of power and authority, and be replaced by another, no. But it is time. I think that God has blessed the whiteman greatly. I think the white race should be willing if God would tell them to stick up their hands and let's go now.I think they should be willing to go. In America where that they came, killed off the original settlers here, the Red Indians, who were exiled out of what is know as East India today, 16,000 years ago,that was 10,000 years before there was a Caucasian on our planet. They came through the Baring Straits over that ice and started making a home here in the Western Hemisphere. At that time the Lord God,Almighty Allah said, they referred to this part of the planet as a prisoner island, because this people, the indians, Red indians. They were disobedient to Allah,and to the law of God, and refused to accept Islam. Islam has always been the teaching or the religion of God, but not always under that name, but the meaning or principle of belief and practice has always been the same: We believe in one God. We submit to that God, entire submission to His will is Islam, that's what we call Islam. And that has always been among us.We never disobey Allah until Yakub made a disobedient race of people who would become and did become the very enemy of Almighty God Allah, and his people. Then they began to take us away, stripped us away into their evil disobedience and today now they have all but 90 per cent of the people of the blind population, I should say, disobeying God Almighty following after their own evil ways and other gods they have set up besides Him claiming or giving that god which did not create anything,and who has not the power to guide or the power of mercy and love for those who would follow- giving them the glory and honor that they should give to Allah.I say my friend, this may be stinging, but it's facts. As I don't get out to teach very often, but on such occasion as this wherein that I can speak to a thousand,ten thousand of you, I would like to speak with you and give to you the truth. The Original Man, the first and the last: Go to Asia. Go to Africa. You don't find nobody running around there unless he's a Christian missionary, preaching the end of the world. They don't have that particular nature to say that such and such a time, that we black people here in Africa and in Asia will be destroyed by God No, it is Europe, it is America, it is the Christian people who preaches the end of the world. It is those people whom the end has been set.Their time was limit to live on out planet earth when they were created. It is the white race,that have a certain time to live,and that is 6, 000 years. And the black people have no beginning on our planet, if it is,why? We don't have a birth record of it. And they have no ending. As I say, you can't destroy us all, because we always have one among us who is waiting for you to just [attempt] evil acts to destroy us, and that will be the end of you.The Judgment of the world is so close, I'm forced to tell you what I am telling you. The Black man of America is so dumb and so helpless, that he is a prey in the hands of the white people. He's easy to forget his own hurt. The white man can kill all of his family today, and tomorrow you will shake hands with him.That's right. He has been made an absolute living coward. He's so humble and submissive, and so dumb and ignorant, that the whiteman can use him for anything he wants. They want the whiteman's friendship, and they have been working on it for four hundred years, and they're just as far off from it today, as they were four hundred years ago. Look in Mississippi today Look in Philadelphia, look in Chicago, look in New York City. Look in all the cities of America,and you will find your brother's head bleeding with knots on it, from police brutality, and from any whiteman who wants to beat him up. Due to the fact that he's humble, he's scared to death, he won't put up a fight to protect himself, and the whiteman is like the wolf. He don't care whether the lamb submit or not.And he don't care whether the man likes it or the lamb likes it, he eats him just the same. Now today under this hypocritical integration, the white man desires to deceive the negro further; pretending that he is is friend, pretending that he wants him now to enter our society, be a member of us, why, because he hears Allah's name being mentioned a lot. They don't want you to come to Allah, they don't want you to believe in Islam. They are against Islam, they are against Allah, they never did teach your parents and my parents nothing of Allah nor of Islam. They didn't teach our parents their own religion.Three hundred years,our parents was under the lash and burden of slavery, that they was deprived of any knowledge of God, or scripture of any kind. They deprived our fathers of reading and writing, which is the art or science that is used to conveying our ideas to others, you were deprived of. Less than a hundred years ago he permitted you to go to his church or rather in a church to yourself. And you have been segregated from them ever since. Now today, he says ," let us take him in our society " for what? What do you want to do with him? He don;t look like you.We're watching you; we know what you want to do with him. You want to take him to hell with you that's all. I say that's to bring you out the real raw truth. the white race was not created for the hereafter. They were created for hell , and hell for them. You have it in both Bible and Qur'an, that's why that there world is coming to an end, and that's why God tells you that He will make manifest the man of sin in that day and time, at the end of their world. And you would be told then the truth of this people. That they were not created to be the people of God, of truth and justice, they are created to be the enemies of God, of truth and justice, and of those who believe in a God of truth and justice.We the Muslims hear in your midst, we believe in Freedom, Justice and Equality, the truth of God,and the truth of his prophets, and the Scriptures in which God gave to those prophets. We believe in it. We believe in Jesus, we believe in Abraham, we believe in Mose,and the Scriptures in which they brought to us,the people. We don't believe Jesus is anymore a son of God than you or I, who are the people of God to the Righteous. This is a scandal that they have made you to believe, which is absolutely other than the truth, that some spooky something went around Mary,talked to her and after spook left her, she was pregnant.This is the base of the Christian belief, that there was a miraculous life and death of Jesus.I say my beloved black people here this afternoon, cut that out, that is all false, Joseph was the father of Jesus, No spook makes flesh and blood. Jesus was flesh and blood and his mother bared him in pain, and he had to go nine months before he was born like any other normal child, and he died the death of any other man.That is something that you don't understand. If he has rose from the dead, and became a man again, then why haven't you and I seen him? For 2,000 years we haven't met up with that man. You say he's gone to heaven,what kind of heaven , he did'nt change from nothing but the earth, and if he's going back to heaven,he went back to the earth. He did'nt come from no other planet, there is no other planet that you and I can live on,or be born on, if we were born on the earth. We can't go to no other planet and live. that's foolishness to talk such; we did not come from there, and were not returning to such,and there is no such thing as a Jesus and a God standing on any other planet looking at you and I. The God is here on this earth. This is the God where you and I live. This is the heaven this is the hell. Hell and heaven is not a certain place or a particular place, it is the condition of our lives. You won't be able to come through no tombstone, or even through the dust, because they don't come back after they go there. We have had life, they last for trillions of years and never have anybody returned from that earth that went back to it. When you go back to the earth, you don't rise anymore.You say, oh yes I believe it. Ok, let's pick a simple example: There was a ship [that] sunk at sea, a submarine blasted it, and all the solders went down in the sea. Alright. Didn't nobody go down there and pick them up and bury them did they? They had died right? Ok, The fish ate them or some other sea animals. And maybe you caught one of the fish that ate some of these soldiers.And you ate the fish, and now when the trumpet is blown where is that soldier coming from? Your limited knowledge of science makes you destroy yourself or cause much harm to come to you. You say alright, you're on land alright then, suppose a wild animal ate one of you out here on land ok, he finally dies and his carcass go and then enrich the earth, and fertilizes green grass, a cow or a sheep or something come and eat that grass. Then you kill that animal and eat him, where will they find that man? Don't you wish for no resurrection of no dead because you have ate many dead yourself. The resurrection of the dead only means bringing up people, mentally dead or blind,deaf,and dumb as they call it. Blind means that you are too spiritually blind that you cannot understand or see the truth and distinguish it from falsehood. And deaf means your ears are so rebellious against truth, that you will not allow them to listen to the truth, And your tongue,or you're dumb because that you don't allow your tongue to practice the truth,and nor receive the teaching of the truth, therefore your tongue is like one that cannot even speak, because it knows nothing about the truth nor can it talk on the truth. So you're called blind,deaf,and dumb. And there is no such thing as the physical body coming up out of the earth, nor the physical form will take on a new voice,You'll have a new body, from this old one,but it is like this according to the teachings of the holy Qur'an , that it will be reversed instead of going into decay, it will go into use again, like an old tree that starts budding out new blossoms, or new limbs,this is what will happen to you that will see the hereafter.You will start growing into a new growth,which will take you back to your youth again, into teenagers,and you will remain like that if you live hear a thousand years, because there won't be any decaying on the other side, what I mean the other side after the destruction or disappearance of the whitemans' world, there will be no decay in the blackman. Everything under this number six decays,because it was built upon that particular principle or nature, that it should decay and die away. I say again to you now the religion, all kinds of religions have been practiced. You say I don't want your Islam, I don't want your Allah. What do you know Allah, and what do you know about Islam? Do you mean to tell me that you are so great, you are so powerful. you are so wise.that you will not bow to any other superior being other than yourself ? When that you are living under the authority of a Supreme being over you. We only say to you to submit to the will of the Divine Supreme Being, One Who is wiser than we all, One more powerful than we all, One Who is hearing and knowing, Who is capable of reversing the whole of the creation,and reproducing it, and One Who is able to pass it out of existence and bring in a new one altogether.You would not bow and submit to a man that has power to take you out of the earth, bring you into a living being, and have the power to remove you from the planet. Did I to say you that you are rebellious? Yes you are. You don't take time to learn; you are to proud; you are resisting God, because you have never been taught Allah and Islam by the whiteman. It is against the nature of white people to believe in Allah. They can if they want to. We have a few white people that is in Islam, brought up in it, just like you have been brought up in the white man's Christianity. Christianity is a religion that the whiteman preaches. It is a religion that was organized.It is not the religion that came with God and the Prophets; it's a religion that they organized.And they organized it to their own satisfaction.And they certainly have been successful under it, but you and I have not. Why? Why have not you been successful in Christianity? It is because you did not know the tricks that was in it, You took the wrong end of it.You're not successful in trying to play the whiteman's game of civilization; you're both two different people altogether. You cannot be successful in trying to integrate in white people, because they will destroy you. You won't destroy them, but they will destroy.Some of you are so dumb, that you would like to be destroyed. But I say to you that the Black man is not what you think he is; you're looking at the one that has been corrupt,one that has been marred, destroyed. But I say, the real one, that you are from,you don't know him so well. We are this original people, and we are from the originator of the heavens and the earth, when and where it took place. We are from that particular Father. And I say again and again, we are not equal, we are not born of the same father and mother , we are not the same people by nature the same.The white race a weaker physical people than the original black people. They came from the original black people,and through the grafting; they were made weaker. And by being made physically weaker, they were taught wickedness by their father, they weren't taught to do good; he taught them to be evil; he taught them how to murder and lie when they were even in the mother womb; he practiced on the nurse: told the nurse how to tell the mother lies And the lie went down into her baby. And the baby when it comes here,is born with that lie, and knows by nature how to lie and deceive others. That's why you have it in 8: 32 of John, that the Jesus says '' I know your father, he was a murderer and a liar from the beginning '' . This means Yakub, Yakub's idea was to make a people to be the ruler of our people, or the people that they are from. And he taught his people to murder the black people, destroy them, and build up your own people on the earth; this, the white man has followed to both letter and the spirit.At that time when they were grafted out of our people, the population of our planet earth according to the teaching of Almighty God to me was fifty-hundred-million people on our Planet .Five billion people was the population when Yakub begin grafting the white race. And the white has caused that fifty or five billion people to come to this number today: forty four hundred million. They have destroyed six hundred million of our people since they have been on the planet, and they are still destroying them, They were made like that, you can't blame them,you have to blame yourself. Their father was the one that made these people murderers. When they can't murder a bird or can't murder some harmless animal or murder some harmless so called negro, they murder themselves. They are born like that, they are great deceivers. Yakub had to deceivers. Yakub had to deceive the original fathers to get them to bow and to become clean for his grafting, so he lied to them. He told them that if they follow him,that he would make them make the other people work for them and give them gold and what not, set them in heaven and everything, and therefore they followed Yakub.and Yakub was after enough of them to graft this race of people from them.. He had taken 59,999 people out with him and he made the60,000 on the Island in the Aegean sea, where he started grafting 6,600 years ago, and after 600 years- though he did'nt live 600 years,he only lived 150 years,so Allah taught me.And after that time he had this before coming back to the main land of Asia, back into our civilization, pale white,blue eyes,and ready to start trouble,and they did. For six months, they had made so much hell among us, that the King at that time had to call the army in to take them out, so that they could have peace.They made our people fight each other,they would go to the home of one,and tell him a story on another, and divide them as he's doing today. They have always lived on divided and rule.That tactic that have always used and still uses it. And it is just a matter of time that you wake up and understand the teaching. It is not that we, I said, can live among them ,we that know them we can live side by side with them; we're not going to bother them ,we know them, and we just ask them to leave us alone, that' all. You that have no knowledge of tham, naturally you are going to have friction with them every so often, because you don't know them, nor do you know yourself. Now after this we had this to happen: They were herded together and they were then put on their feet to go and try to get into the continent that you call Europe today.They put them on the Arabian desert and walked across that hot sand; many of them died, but a few lived. They went into what you call Europe today, they were stripped of all the literature of their fathers, our fathers brought them back, put them away in vaults and they came and give to them skins of animals, so that they could have something to wear to cover their nakedness. And they taken our clothes away from them, that they should not wear the custom of the original people. And that they went into the hills,cave sides of Europe with nothing to go on as guides, and without guides, and after a few years, they became savages they dug their caves, and they found caves,they lived in caves, and they went about the country side, or the hill sides killing wild animals, eating them, and eating them raw, and what not, taking their hide to cover themselves from the cold winter of Europe. This went on for 2,000 years until the birth of Moses. And this people, they got so far savage, they did'nt teach their children when they were born to walk on their legs; the child comes here, he started growing, he kept growing and kept growing and then at the birth of Moses,in the hills and cave sides of Europe, they were walking on their all fours, 4,000 years ago. And Moses civilized them , brought them up , stood them up again, some of them refused to follow Moses. And The Holy Qur-an said that Allah cursed them and caused them to become apes and swine, monkeys and what not. And so this is the curses that befell Yakub's civilization, for being disobedient among the Holy people of the Islam world.And they were cast out and was punished. They was exiled.And after that, they came back among us, and since that time, they have gotten such strong power among us,that they are now ready for a Holy war. They are ready to contend with us that they can rule self. But this was understood before they ever were created; it's all written in a book, what they will do, and they're not doing anything other than what was written of them. Therefore, being wise, to what they will do, and how they will do it, the black scientist today are lying quiet as though he's dead,waiting for an opportune moment to rise up and do his work.You won't kill them all, you will start but you will stop.You're going to the Moon? for what? You can't hide there.You want to go to venus? You can't stay there.You can't go to Mars, it's too cold for you.Venus is too hot for you, and the Moon is without any life whatsoever, and you can't stay there unless you carry enough of this atmosphere to live on. You've got to distill all your food from the earth to eat. And even if you was on Mars or Venus, you could'nt eat the food there Every Planet carries its own weight of life or its own kind of life,and you and I cannot just adapt our lives with that life on that planet. You can't drink the water on that planet it will kill you. You have to confine your own life to this earth where you came from. And I don't care where you go, you will finally return to this earth, if you have to drift back to space, you'll come back to the earth.You must know today the time is at hand, and I must tell you, it is my people that I'm after. They are the ones that are dead. They are the dead of the Bible. The whiteman is all wise to all that I'm saying. I'm not trying to teach him,he knows. It is you that don't know. I'm not trying to force you to follow me. I'm only trying to tell you the truth, you follow whom you please, Allah can do without you. We have oceans of people on this planet, and if you never join on to them, they will never miss you Christianity versus Islam: Christianity as I said, and you can bear me witness,is an organized religion, it is not a religion that Jesus is the author or founder of. Jesus knew nothing of Christianity in the day he was living,Christianity came after his death. Jesus was of the same religion that I am teaching to you today, Islam. Jesus was a Muslim. He said that he came not to destroy the law of the prophets. Then they makes sense over here where he says in the older times; he said, "an eye for eye, a tooth for a tooth" meaning, Moses' law taught them that. And for you now if he smacks you on one side of the cheek, turn the other, knock out your tooth go ahead and give him another tooth to knock out out. This was the slave-master's way of making some harmless slaves.He didn't want the slave to strike back, so he tell them that the book say this: "You shall not throw railing for railing" They even tell me now, "Why do you teach them to hate us?" They never say why I'm teaching to hate that they call hate. Then you are wrong. You shouldn't do that if the whiteman have did that, then you should not do that yourself, you should bring about love among us . But I say that all the while I am teaching you, they are giving hell right on.They can't do any better; their nature don't teach them to love you and treat you like they treat themselves. And you being an original Black person, you yourselves cannot by nature, be one of them by no means, unless that you are made into them. Again, I say you are a fool to want to go and be just like your slave master; you are a fool to want to destroy your identity, you are a fool to want to be equal members in their society, when you are not. You cannot demand the slave master to give you equal recognition,when you are not; he's the master and you are the slave, you can't do that. You cannot demand him to give you fair employment; that's his job, he made it, and he do what he please with it. He will take his own people if he wants them in front of you, and any other nation will do the same. What you and I should do is go make a job for our people, and for ourselves.But we are a bit lazy. We don't want to work and produce work for our people. We want to beg other people. I say you are well educators produce employment for your own people if you would unite, and get to yourself to do it. You cannot with 20 million people here, dependent on the white race, white America, to produce or created jobs for you and build your needs, build houses, farms for you, everything that you want, from a pair of socks, to a hat on your head he has to produce. I say this thing is not going to last forever, even it they wanted to do so, it won't last forever. They are now a great people in population, and you are like your fathers was in servitude slavery, begging your masters for bread, begging master for clothes, begging master for a shovel. If you are turned down,you should not think hard of them, think hard of yourself. For one hundred years, they have said that we are free, though I know,you know, that you are not freed in deed, but I say, they said that we are free, lets try and exercise some of it. Go to the master and say "Let me go from you, help me to go from you, and help me stay from you." A lazy man don't ever want to go out from a house that he can get away with or get along without work. Most of our leaders don't want to go to work or put their people to work to build a man's world. He says, "I'm just as much a citizen as you. I am entitled to this." That's a coward talking to the father. We know that we are not equal in sharing America; why should we boast that we are. We know we are not citizens. We could not be citizens unless we were white people.We are alien. We were brought here, not to be made citizens of this country, equal citizens with the white man, nor to receive equal justice. We were brought here for burden bearers. And you are fighting them today to try and force them against their own will and against the very law of nature, to accept you as their equal, and share with you equally in all they have. This is against the very law of nature, they can't do that. And you would like to destroy yourself into yourself, by marrying into them, and they are not going to let you do that. There is no intelligent decent white people who wants a negro as his son-in- law, or daughter - in - law. And there is no decent and intelligent black, man who wants a white son- in - law nor a white daughter- in - law. Being ignorant of yourself, and like many other African people that the white man has destroyed by going into them, destroying their identity as he have you, he had a better chance at you because you was in his house. As I say, 85 per cent,as it is said by certain writers, 95 per cent of us is destroyed by the white man's blood. You thinking that you are going to get up to his equal by opening your doors to admitting him in, your're only destroying yourself; he's wise, he don't intend on destroying his people, not with your blood . The White Camellia , and the National; party in National Party in America, the Ky Klux Klan, I don't blame them for wanting to keep you out of their family. I don't blame them for not wanting the integration law to pass, because they know what will be the results. I don't want it myself. No. I want separation. Being eaten and destroyed by a people, and then I should say to them: that they teach me for the the purpose of destroying me? No. I want to leave you. We can't get along in peace. We have given you an example in Los Angeles of the white man's very nature. We tried to be at peace with them, we go unarmed, and they don't like that. They pounce upon us like wild animals out of the jungle, and start shooting us up even in our Temple, Killing one,and wounding five or six others,one or two permanently. They want to take care of you in their hospitals with a bullet through your body, or a vast artery, or the spine, they would rather take care of you there cripple, make make mock of you to have you remorse, and they say, "there's a nigger I shot", there's a nigger I killed, there's a nigger I beat." I say to you and I, as Moses said to the Hebrews, under Pharaoh, up, let us get out of here. With the whiteman's anger in the south and his hatred of his once slave, that he don't want him even to sit on the seat besides him.How can you expect that red sun burnt white man with one side of his mouth turning his mouth dyed with brown mule tobacco, to be so friendly with you,to take you today as a brother. The Federal Government has to send an Army to permit one even to get into his school, I say to you my Brother Meredith you was a fool. I say to the government, if you have to sent an army to put me in this school , and to watch me to keep him from killing me, what will he do after you leave? They're called ignorant. No intelligent person would take such foolish chance. I go to your door and knock on it and you tell me " No, don't come in my house." I say to you, thank you, I will go away. I will not go out and tell the police, " Make him let me in his house, I'm suppose to go in there." No. I would be ashamed to tell the police that. Some of our people, lying down on their restaurant floors, and coffee shops, begging and praying . " Let me have a cup of coffee in here with you, let me have a sandwich in here with you, let ne have a meal with you." I am ashamed of my own people, for being so ignorant. The intelligent way to get a person to respect you , is to first respect yourself, and others.Islam, the natural religion of man, is the only cure for the so- called American Negro. It put a sense of dignity in that man; for the first time you feel like a man; for the first time you feel like you should not beg other people to that for you that you can do for yourself. And for the first time in your life, that you find love in your heart for yourself and your kind. You love your people after Islam. But Christianity divides you. We are the results or victims of Christianity. Who made us spiritually blind? It was white Christians who went after our people and put them in chains 400 years and brought them here. Some of us say that Christianity is God's religion and it's Jesus' religion. So foolish a thing Christian beliefs are based on three(3) gods, is based on life after death, based on Jesus rising from the dead, and had a miraculous birth and death. This you have to believe before you could ever be called a Christian, or believe in Christianity. This is contrary from the God's own nature, I am thy God, and me and me alone should you serve. I know no other God. I am the first, and I am the last. It is written,in the birthright. Alright then, how can you say that he is the god, His son is the god and His holy ghost is the god? How can you say something like that? There is no such thing as Jesus was the equal with God. How could he could be equal with his own maker? He admitted that he was not equal with his Father. He admitted that he had no power, but that which he would be given or was given to him from His Father. He said I am not His equal, no I am from Him. I am His servant. Think over that. And I know nothing,only what He has given to me, and I can do nothing without Him Here you come saying he is the equal, he was in the day and all the like of that, when the God was present. Was Jesus here when the heaven and the earth was created? No. He was from that Father, but he was not the equal in making the universe with his Father.The universe was here when he was born, like us. And he knew not how to build a universe, but my Fathers built one. And my wisdom and understanding has not went that high yet to understand how to take my will, and put it into space, and start a planet to swirling out there in a pocket, and create life on it. No, I can't do that, but my Father did that.And Jesus did not do that.Jesus was no more than Abraham or Moses, he was just a prophet.He did his work and he prophesied that I go away; meaning, He will die like all other prophets. "But nevertheless, the Father will send you one to bring you into the knowledge of truth. I can't tell it all myself, but he will send you one. He said you should understand." The white race has made them a little religion to catch black people with. Christianity, if you study it, you will find that the whole of its teachings is nothing but slavery. It's to enslave black people for the service of white people; That's all it's for. Attack me on any of it, and I will prove to you I will lay your religion so bare, barer than your feet, to show you that it's nothing but slavery teaching.There is no such thing as Jesus sitting in a heaven waiting for the final Judgment, he won't be here when the final Judgment come anymore than Moses or Abraham. He's gone back to the earth, or rather he's embalmed, and he will stay there another well 8,000 years. They embalmed him to last 10,000 years, and that his body will disappear at the end of ten thousand years. And it will disappear at this very hour if air is let in that tube that he's in. He's not alive, he looks just like he did the day that they killed him, but he's not alive.Go there and yell to him all you want to, he can't speak, he can't hear you either. I visited in 59, the tomb Abraham, his wife Sarah, and this other woman Hagar, they have them over there . I also saw Jacob's tomb, there over there. But let me tell you one thing,you have been made to believe everything that you hear. without even trying to study it and examine it to see whether or not it was the truth. Just so as long as the devil say "here it is nigger," you took it for granted that it was the truth. We have the emblem of Christianity as a cross, and a crucified man on it right? That is the emblem of Christianity, which means that the people who follow this religion will suffer persecution, they will suffer enslavement, they will suffer death under this particular religion, they will be bound in the power of the white man hand and feet. They won't be able to move their hands for their use, they won't be able to use their feet to walk to that in which that they want to. Their steps will be limited. They are nailed to the cross of Christianity under the power of the white man. Their heads is crowned with thorns, not literally thorns, but that particular ignorant knowledge of the truth, going through their brain cells, like a literal thorn being pricked into the brain. There you are, unable to think for self. Christianity deprives you of that.That's the thorns in your head now. You are stabbed through the heart, you are unable to feel the wounds, you died with grief and sorrow under Christianity. Islam is different. The Holy Qur'an says "He that believe in Allah and in His prophets, and in His book, keeps up prayer, pays the poor rate, there is no fear for him nor shall he grieve"'. And that is right. As soon as you believe in Christianity, it increases your fear.So I say to you my beloved brothers and sisters the time is running on, but I must take a look at this first: If Christianity is the right religion, why must you use a murder sign? That ole cross on yonder field, an emblem,the Christians say of sinning or something like that.Someday, the Christians say, I hope you exchange this cross; for what,for a starry crown.I also say that with them,I hope someday you will change that old cross, to a starry crown.We, the Muslim people, hate the death sign. We the Muslim people, worship God in the best manner. We take for our sign for a religion, the Sun, the Moon, and the Star. They call it the Crescent, the background is the red, it means the Sun.It means this physically, that the Sun gives the freedom of light and warmth. The Moon or Star rather, is a sign or emblem of Justice. In the physical world, it serves as a guiding thing for us in the night, and also the Moon she's in our flag, or in our representing our religion, as equality. In the physical world she helps the Sun to feed the vegetation at night while the Sun doesn't shine on it. She helps the Sun keeps life in equal balance at her equator. This is the magnetic power of the Moon on the Earth, and we call her a sign of equality, because she came from the earth, and now she's helping the earth and confined to the power of the live earth, which she was once of, and is unable to pull away from it, because she don't have the life to leave, now, no conscious,to leave,or to pull her away from there. This is a sign for you and I and the wisdom that you and I should learn. You are a mentally dead nation here, in the midst of a live nation, as the Holy Qur-an say," Allah will bring the dead from the living, and the living from the dead".You are a dead nation and a live nation. Now you can't leave this people until life has been infused in yourself.While you are dead you are rotating around this people, and can't get away from them. This teaching is to give you life, so that you might find a sphere of your own that you can rotate in.So therefore we have a sign of our religion as the Crescent, I say you don't like it. Do you not like the Sun, do you not like the Moon, do you not like the stars, yes you like all of that because that's essential for your own well being or your own life. But without the Sun you couldn't live.And without the Moon's work that she's doing for the earth, her title waves would soon sweep us off into dry land; they have control over them if it was left loose. But the moon keeps the title waves reaching up at her; therefore, they are commanded that they shall not set over the bound or the bound is set in the ocean. And also the stars .We are asking America for freedom in deed. We are asking America for equal justice under her law of justice. We are asking America to let us build ourselves up as equal human beings as she has; build ourselves up in the world of nations as equal to the nations. We must remember my friends, that we have to go from scratch to get to that which is something,that which is salvation to you and I.Don't look for integration, look for separation. You can never be successful in trying to live in the house with the white man as a member of his family, unless you're going to be his slave,and you and you fathers lived in his house for 300 years as his slave and now in a hundred years you are still in the status of a free-slave. You have nothing. You have helped him fight his wars, you have helped him to build a great civilization that is absolutely not equal by any of his brothers, He's the richest of all his brothers, and he has the greatest country of all of his brothers. And you and I have helped them, and our fathers before us for 400 years to come into this great richness that he's enjoying. He has shot his own brothers down that he said was an enemy to us, to him. And then he has put us on our own brothers to kill our own brothers, and we did that [because] he said [our brother] was an enemy of his. Now today I say, try to study for yourself,do you see any hope,do you see any future for 20 million so-called American Negroes in America for yourself, living as you are living, seeking jobs, employment that is created by the whiteman. Do you see a future for yourself,and your nation for the duration of your nation's life? Not under the same condition or in the same condition, begging the white man to go and create jobs for you to be hired on and pay out of his own pocket. The Black man in America faces a serious economic problem today and the white race's Christianity cannot solve it. You, the so-called American Negro, with the help of Allah can solve your own problem. The truth must be recognized by the black man. He himself, has assisted greatly in creating this serious problem of unemployment, insecurity and lack. Before the black man can begin to gain economic security, he must be awakened from the dead and gain knowledge, understanding and wisdom which will enable him to follow my teachings.Islam and only Islam will point the way out of the entanglement of "want in the midst of plenty" for the followers of Islam, the true religion of the black nation. He(Mr.W.F Muhammad, God in person) chose to suffer 3 1/2 years to show His love for His people, who have suffered over 300 years at the hands of a people who by nature are evil and wicked and have no good in them.He was persecuted, sent to jail in 1932, and ordered out of Detroit, on May26, 1933. He came to Chicago in that same year and was arrested almost immediately on His arrival and place behind bars. He submitted Himself with all humbleness to his persecutors. Each time he was arrested, he sent for me so that I might see and learn the price of Truth for us, the so-called American Negroes (members of the Asiatic nation) He was well able to save Himself from such suffering, but how else was the scripture to be fulfilled? We followed in His footsteps, suffering the same persecution. My people are yet sound asleep to the knowledge of the good that is being carried on for their deliverance. The whole world of our kind awaits the awakening, and our awakening is the last step in the Resurrection and Judgment of the world. It is a sin that we were put so soundly to sleep. The end of the world has arrived, and most of us know not. Our enemies' greatest desire is that we remain asleep. My people fight and oppose the God of our own salvation. Allah chose for us Islam as a religion . He desires to set us in Heaven at once, on condition that we submit to Him and accept the religion of Islam, the religion of God and His prophets.In the religion (Islam), He offers us universal friendship, and we who have submitted to Him know this to be true. We know white people have and will continue to persecute anyone who offers help to us, the so-called American Negroes (Asiatics). Should persecution or even death stop the worthy help that will save the lives of the so-called- Negroes? No,it shall not. The so-called Negroes are absolutely friendless and have sought in vain friendship from their enemies, due to the ignorance of self and their enemies. Now they are offered universal friendship if the will only accept their own (Allah and Islam). Seek first the friendship of your own people and then the friendship of other (if there is any friendship in the others). We have made the grave mistake of Lazarus and the Prodigal Son, (St.Luke:Chapter15), the one who was so charmed over the wealth and food of the rich man that he could not leave his gate to seek the same for himself,-regardless of the disgraceful condition in which the rich man puts him,even to sending his dogs to attack him. The angels had to come and take him away. The other(Prodigal Son), being tempted by the loose life of strange women, drinking,gambling, and adultery, cause him to love the stranger's way of life so much so that it cost him all that he originally possessed (self-independence and Divine Guidance). His Father (God in person) had to come and be his representative to again meet his brothers, family, and friends. Nothing fits the description of us better, the so-called Negroes (Asiatics). Many of us today are lazy that we are willing to suffer anything rather than go for self. It is true that our God has come to set us in Heaven, but not a Heaven wherein we will not have to work.Fear is the worst enemy that we have, but entire submission to Allah (God) and His Messenger will remove this fear. The white race put fear in our fore parents when they were babies, so says the the word of Allah. We must have for our peace and happiness (the17,000,000 so-called Negroes) that which others nations have. This before-mentioned peace and happiness cannot come under any other flag but our own.If God desires for us such joy, why shouldn't we give up begging and be real men and sit with the rulers of the earth,ruling our own? Our first step is to give back to the white man his religion (Christianity),his church,and his names. These three are chains of slavery that hold us in bondage to them. We are free when we give up the above three. The  

8 Feb 2006 @ 10:31 by pars @64.180.160.151 : disgusting islam
fuck all muslims and their fucking mohammad blood sucker, they should be wiped off the earth  

8 Feb 2006 @ 10:38 by pars @64.180.160.151 : fuck disgusting muslims
fuck disgusting mohammed, fuck islam, fuck disgusting mohammed, fuck all muslims, fucking muslims are all beasts, fuck this fucking disgustinfg islam  

8 Feb 2006 @ 10:44 by Obaid essa @195.229.242.52 : What does Islam say about terrorism?
Unfortunately more and more often, Islam has been associated with terrorism and violence due to the actions of a few extreme individuals who’ve taken it upon themselves to do the most heinous crimes in the name of Islam.

Tragic events such as the attack on the twin towers in New York, the bombings of Bali, Madrid and London are assumed to be justified by Islam in the minds of some people. This idea has been fueled further by many media channels which defame Islam by portraying these bombers as ‘Islamists’ or ‘Jihadists’, as though they were sanctioned by Islam, or had any legitimate spokemenship on behalf of Muslims. The actions of a few fanatical individuals who happen to have Muslim names or ascribe themselves to the Muslim faith should not be a yardstick by which Islam is judged. For the same reason, that one would not do justice to Christianity if it where perceived as sanctioning the genocide of the Native Americans, the atrocities of world war II or the bombings of the IRA.

To understand Islam’s stance on terrorism, one must refer to its original sources, the Quran and the teachings of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him,which are explicit in their prohibition of any form of injustice including that of wanton violence which seeks to instill fear, injury or death to civilians.

The Quran turns our attention to the high value of human life, whether it is Muslim or Non-Muslim and makes it absolutely forbidden to take an innocent life unjustly. The gravity of such a crime is equated, in the Quran, with the killing of all humanity.

“On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.” ( 5:32 )

Not only is human life sacred in Islam but the property, wealth, family and dignity of all individuals in society are to be respected and protected. Those who transgress these rights and sow fasad (corruption) as the Quran describes it, incur the wrath of Allah.

"…and seek not corruption in the earth; lo! Allah loveth not corrupters " (28:77)

Likewise in another verse

“The blame is only against those who oppress men and wrong-doing and insolently transgress beyond bounds through the land, defying right and justice: for such there will be a penalty grievous” (42:42)

Islam goes further than just prohibiting oppression and safeguarding rights, it commands its faithful to deal kindly and compassionately to all those who seek to live in peace and harmony

"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loves those who are just" (60:8)

In times of war and conflict, where enmity can obstruct an individual’s judgement to act morally, Islam commands that justice be upheld even towards one’s enemies.

"O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do" (5:8)

Centuries before the Geneva Convention was drawn up, Muslims were bound by a code of conduct which the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, set. He forbade the killing of women, children and elderly in war. In an authentic narration the Prophet (pbuh) warned that he who kills anyone who has a covenant of peace with the Muslims will not smell the scent of Paradise. In fact, he taught that justice is not only to humans but must be shown to animals and all living things. In a narration the Prophet (pbuh) informed us about how a lady was sent to hell because of a cat she had locked up until it starved and died. If such is the sanctity which Islam places on the soul of an animal, how much more grave is the killing of hundreds of innocent humans?!

Abu Bakr the first Calipha of the Muslims reflected these prophetic teachings when he advised his general Yazid, who was confronting Roman armies,

"I advise you ten things, Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly."

The message of the Quran is clear as we have seen, that the sanctity of any human life is to be respected and any violation in that regard is paramount to the worst crime. Mercy is at the heart of the Islamic call, “We sent thee (O Muhammad) not save as a mercy for the peoples” (21:107); a totally different message to what the terrorists are sadly imparting to humanity.
 

8 Feb 2006 @ 11:40 by toni @84.177.106.215 : What I think about the Islam?
In this days we see again what kind of religion the islam is. I am Katholic and believe in god. However, the way how most of the islamic people think is to radical and not acceptable. I live in Germany, here in Germany are lots of Turkish and other islmac people. Somehow are 60% of the Prisoniers in Jails Muslim but in the population in Germany are less than 8% muslims. What I am trying to say is that if people of believe in God and love their religion should always try to understand other religions and also to accept different cultures. Thank you  

8 Feb 2006 @ 12:10 by Salami Fuckallah @194.152.247.158 : AAAAAAAAAAAA
Allahu Akbar. Fuck you all!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 12:32 by ALA @194.165.149.186 : FOR OBAID ESSA
Islam is for all people(white,black,yellow....etc) and Adam is our father as mentioned in Quran. Islam is not only for balck its for all people in the world .  

8 Feb 2006 @ 12:43 by Rich_S @195.160.253.3 : Religion
A common theme of this thread has been respect to other people's religions and I get the impression that most of the posters here are religious in some way. As I said in my post (which got lost amongst the Christian-Muslim mudslinging), non-religious people think that ALL of your various religions are BS. Religious types would do well to consider that before they demand complete respect for their fanciful stories.

So following from this: we have absolute divides between groups of people along the lines of religion, UNLESS each person decides that overall they actually do have something else in common - e.g. membership of a common culture (like "British") and having respect for the rule of law over religion. For for everybody within a country to live in peace we all have to subscribe to those ideas FIRST. Rules of tolerance are great for this - you can live in my country and have all sorts of funny beliefs. I don't mind because peace is better than civil war, but your side of the bargain is to KEEP YOUR RELIGION OUT OF MY FACE.

I think it's important for the religious types here to realise is that aethiests actually do think your religions are bullshit. By common courtesy, we respect your *right to believe* in your religion, but we *don't* actually respect your beliefs at all (otherwise we would be a member of your religion). We have laws to protect your right to believe, but NOT to protect your religion's right to exist.

When people (e.g. the newspaper) breach the common courtesy then they apologise and/or end up in court. If you are upset then you can peacefully demonstrate. But this over-reaction (the rioting and burning), this insistance that non-religious societies should bend over backwards for religious bullshit - that's unreasonable and I find it adhorrent.

As for all the other problems and injustices mentioned in this thread (e.g. war in iraq), well they're separate issues but have been caught up in the reaction. We've got injustice to fight, and past wrongs to right, but if Muslims use protests about cartoons as their vehicle to protest against the conduct of the west in general then they aren't communicating very well - just look how the European media has reacted.

Overall, tolerance in multi-cultural societies is just about your right to life and equal opportunities. It is not about integrating principles of the loudest minority into the rule of law.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 13:23 by A Dane @86.52.105.106 : Problems with some muslims!
A Muslim group in Denmark announced that a 30,000-dollar bounty would be paid for the murder of several prominent Danish Jews, a threat that garnered wide international notice. Less well known is that this is just one problem associated with Denmark's (and elsewhere for that matter) approximately 200,000 Muslim immigrants. The key issue is that many of them show very little desire to fit into their adopted country.
For years, Danes lauded multiculturalism and insisted they had no problem with the Muslim customs - until one day they found that they did. Some major issues:
· Living on the dole: Third-world immigrants - most of them Muslims from countries such as Turkey, Somalia, Pakistan, Lebanon and Iraq - constitute 5 percent of the population but consume upwards of 40 percent of the welfare spending.
· Engaging in crime: Muslims are only 4 percent of Denmark's 5,4 million people but make up a majority of the country's convicted rapists, an especially combustible issue given that practically all the female victims are non-Muslim. Similar, if lesser, disproportions are found in other crimes.
· Self-imposed isolation: Over time, as Muslim immigrants increase in numbers, they wish less mix with the indigenous population. A recent survey finds that only 5 percent of young Muslim immigrants would readily marry a Dane.
· Importing unacceptable customs: Forced marriages - promising a newborn daughter in Denmark to a male cousin in the home country, then compelling her to marry him, sometimes on pain of death - are one problem.
· Another threat is to kill Muslims who convert out of Islam: One Kurdish convert to Christianity, who went public to explain why she had changed religion, felt the need to hide her face and conceal her identity, fearing for her life.
· Fomenting anti-Semitism: Muslim violence threatens Denmark's approximately 6,000 Jews, who increasingly depend on police protection. One school principal that she could not guarantee their children’s safety and were advised to attend another institution told Jewish parents. Anti-Israel marches have turned into anti-Jewish riots. One organization, Hizb-ut-Tahrir, openly calls on Muslims to "kill all Jews É wherever you find them."
· Seeking Islamic law: Muslim leaders openly declare their goal of introducing Islamic law once Denmark's Muslim population grows large enough - a not-that remote prospect. If present trends persist, one sociologist estimates, every third inhabitant of Denmark in 40 years will be Muslim.
Other Europeans (such as the late Pim Fortuyn in Holland) have also grown alarmed about these issues, but Danes were the first to make them the basis for a change in government.
In a momentous election last November, a center-right coalition came to power for the first time since 1929 - excluded the socialists. The right broke its 72-year losing streak and won a solid parliamentary majority by promising top handle immigration issues, the electorate's first concern, differently from the socialists.
The next nine months did witness some fine-tuning of procedures: Immigrants now must live seven years in Denmark (rather than three) to become permanent residents. Most non-refugees no longer can collect welfare checks immediately on entering the country. No one can bring into the country an intended spouse under the age of 24. And the state prosecutor is considering a ban on Hizb-ut-Tahrir for its death threats against Jews.
These minor adjustments prompted howls internationally - with European and U.N. reports condemning Denmark for racism and "Islamophobia," the Washington Post reporting that Muslim immigrants "face habitual discrimination," and a London Guardian headline announcing that "Copenhagen flirts with Fascism."
In reality, however, the new government barely addressed the existing problems. Nor did it prevent new ones, such as the death threats against Jews or a recent Islamic edict calling on Muslims to drive Danes out of Noerrebro quarter of Copenhagen.
The authorities remain indulgent. The military mulls permitting Muslim soldiers in Denmark's volunteer International Brigade to opt out of actions they don't agree with - a privilege granted to members of no other faith. Mohammed Omar Bakri, the self-proclaimed London-based "eyes, ears and mouth" of Osama bin Laden, won permission to set up a branch of his organization, Al-Muhajiroun.
Contrary to media reports, the real news from Denmark is not flirting with fascism but getting mired in inertia. A government elected specifically to deal with a set of problems has made minimal headway. Its reluctance has potentially profound implications for the West as a whole.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 15:17 by Hana from Bosnia @203.101.108.27 : Redco
Sorry to hear about your suffering but you are not the only one..there are many of us in the world who have experienced masacres, melting heads, etc..but that does not give us the reason to hate the world for that. We are the crazy once who allowed that to happen, not the world..talking about muslims, religion and respoect for other religions - that is big BS!! there is no respect for other religions by muslims (fundamentalists, non-educated, peasants, mullas etc which make the gretaer majority). We used to be Christians and Ottomans converted us to Islam and the Tito made us communists and now again we have a freedom to chose to be Muslims if we want to..well let me tell you - there is no way on earth we would ever be identified as muslims or believe in islam as u do..it is the craziest interpetation of Kuran and even Mohammad would get sick if he was able to wake up for one day and see what has happened to what it used to be the purest religion now it is a nuclear weapon and spreads hatred. Prove the world wrong and stop acting peacefully, bring some sense of humor into muslim people, start respecting the civil laws of the cuntries that have welcomed milions of muslims - there is no sharia law there - they are not religious but secular, respect the freedom of speech..let the women out of their burqas, mix boys and girls, stop building separate societies for women and man...o man this can go on and on..and i live in a society that is never ever going to become a muslim country - i hope and i? i am going to find a new religion - more peaceful - learn from Buddhists..
why is it so difficult for muslims to face the truth and take a joke? don't be slaves of imaginary things...and keep religion for your own home, direct contact between you and god and that's it!!!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 18:48 by Redco @62.114.93.56 : Hana
hana i think you just take some words of what i said and you talk through it , i said Islam is against this already , and Islam doesn't force anyone to join it , and as i said there is many people who suffer and i didn't say that this is a reason for bad things to happen , we as Muslims we don't accept it , and about terrorism you are talking about it is by people who can't be named or related to Islam by any means , because what they do is totaly against Islam laws , yes against Islam laws , they can't be named as Muslims , killing and all this , is not allowed in Islam , and there is a proplem that you or others think that "Gehad" in a total wrong way , "Gehad" and all the what had been said in Qur'an and Hadith is totaly understood wrong by people who don't know arabic well , it get translated into totaly wrong meanings to other languages , because simply it needs a person who understand arabic very well to show you the meaning in order to translate what it means , not the words meaning just as words but whats meant by these words ,


when you talk about women i would like to tell you it is our Religon and Qur'an our Holy Book , about boys and girls there are laws and we respect our religon and do with it , so don't ask us to do something against our religon , as we don't force you to join it either as we respect yours we don't force you to do things against your religon ,

what joke ??? what truth you are talking about ?? There are religons from God , each one has his religon he choosed , and no one forces another to join it , we don't accept jokes about our believes you should respect this , if you accept it to your religon and its okay with you , we don't so respect this before you talk about it ,  

8 Feb 2006 @ 18:51 by vibrani : Islam doesn't force people to join it?
Like hell it doesn't.

The Muslims burning and trashing buildings, killing people, inciting hatred and death are criminals and should be dealt with as such; arrested and brought to trial and responsible to pay for damages.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 18:53 by Redco @62.114.93.56 : A Dane
dane know the that Islam is totaly against what you just said , those people whom talk by the name of Islam and do all this , can't be named as Muslims or related to Islam , it is totaly missunderstanding of Islam and its orders , at the end it gives a bad name to Islam , but this isn't what Islam says or ask us to do , as i said earlier terrorism can't be related to any RELIGON , please read my post about " for who think Islam is terrorism"  

8 Feb 2006 @ 18:56 by Redco @62.114.93.56 : vibrani
i told you and told all this is not allowed in Islam and it is totaly against it and its laws , and all this what happen is for un responible people who don't understand what Islam really said , thats totaly wrong and which gave a total wrong image for Islam , that's something that Islam doesn't accept it at all  

8 Feb 2006 @ 18:59 by vibrani : Regardless
they are doing it, Redco.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 19:10 by Redco @62.114.93.56 : vibrani
yes vibrani but who do it ?? don't get awhole religon to something that some people who totaly missunderstand Islam and talk by the name of Islam

now we are talking about some people who don't follow even Islam rules , even if they are Muslims , but Islam doesn't accept this

like a simple example Jews or Chirstians or Muslims or any religon

if anyone of them steal something , and he has a religon that doesn't mean that his religon tells him to do this , i think you understand my point here now  

8 Feb 2006 @ 19:15 by Redco @62.114.93.56 : the proplem is
the proplem is you see a bad image of Islam because actions of people who totaly missunderstand Islam and its laws , what these people do is not In Islam , and totaly not allowed not accepted and totaly forribidden , those people who do such things by the name of Islam , they don't understand Islam and these actions are totaly against Islam , and when you people see them talking by the name of Islam and do such things, you think that Islam and Muslims are bad , because actions of people whom totaly missunderstand what REAL ISLAM says  

8 Feb 2006 @ 19:21 by vibrani : *
*  

8 Feb 2006 @ 19:22 by vibrani : It doesn't matter
what religion you are - if you kill, destroy buildings, incite hatred and murder, you're a criminal and should be treated as a criminal. Right now it is a LOT of Muslims who are creating havoc in many countries. They consider themselves Muslim, by their own definition. So it doesn't matter whether or not it's the real Islam. To them it is, and they have the loudest voice, wouldn't you agree?  

8 Feb 2006 @ 19:24 by Redco @62.114.93.56 : One God
all religons whatever its name is for One God One Creator
whom made all these religons to make people follow the right path in life
but...
there are people who are yes from one of these religons but they do something wrong and un accepted within Humand laws + God's Laws in any religon , those people who talk by the name of this religon , whom they totaly don't know what the religon really said , such things which happen we can't say that any religon whatever it is is responible or related to it
, if some people whom do such things , they really don't know or do as what the religon said because it is not allowed in any religon whatever it is  

8 Feb 2006 @ 19:30 by Redco @62.114.93.56 : then you can't say that Islam is a bad
no it matters because you now talk and say that Islam or Muslims are bad or whatever , thats not true because those people you are talking about can't be related to a religon " from your own words"  

8 Feb 2006 @ 19:30 by vibrani : EXACTLY YES
that is the way - to acknowledge that the major religions believe in one God.

The people rioting call themselves Muslims and say they speak for Allah and Mohammad. I know they're full of shit. But they are the loudest voice right now - where are people like you? Do we hear you or other Muslim leaders telling them to stop, that this isn't Islam?  

8 Feb 2006 @ 19:36 by Redco @62.114.93.56 : Yes there are...
yes for sure there are and alot , many of people are there saying about this ,
i want to say that those people who do such things and who talk about Islam that's not what Islam said , + these actions are done by them because they are angry from what happen to them but as i said thats not the way and Islam doesn't accept or allow it at all!!  

8 Feb 2006 @ 19:40 by vibrani : Right
I think we need to hear those leaders, condemning these acts in the name of Islam, much louder.  

8 Feb 2006 @ 19:55 by Redco @62.114.93.2 : then now ....
you can't say that Islam or Christian or Jewish Religons or any other religon are bad for something that some people who are from that religon do things wrong and against what their religon says , they go against it and talk by its name so we can't say that any religon is bad or that all the people who are from this religon are bad

i would like to remind you by my example up of what i said

terrorism is one of the most unliked , hated thing whatever its reasons
there is NO RELIGON order or accept it , it is something totaly forbidden and unaccepted
by all Religons , all Religons are for One GOD , One Creator , whom made those religons
how can God order his people to do bad thing in his religons ????
from this i start talking about why do ppl back the terrorism to Islam and Muslims
Islam never accepted terrorism or ordered it , over all the Islamic History terrorism is something bad
evil and never accepted , if we will talk about terrorism it is not something related to religon or country
or skin color or person clothes , it is related to a group of sick minded people whom went against the rules,laws
and God's orders in all his religons , it cant be related to a relgion because some of the people who did it are
believers of this religon

look at your fingers in the same hand , the finger prints are they the same ??? they are fingers of the same hand , same blood same everything
are they the same ??? , even twins arent the same , not cuz one or more bad person did something wrong which is already
against the religon( God's Law) and humans made law , a whole Religon or country said to be so


a question it is called "Religon" whats the meaning of this word , can someone answer me ??? how can this word
be related to something bad or evil ??? , i want you to think about it for a while deep thinking

once a person who is terrorist which is something evil and bad , he is not a good person , he has no religon cuz
his religon whatever it is doesn't accept it, so simply we can say that a specific religon is terrorism ,or bad for something that those kind of people do by a religon name because no religon whatever it is accept it


thanks for all  

8 Feb 2006 @ 20:22 by Redco @62.114.93.2 : just for people who will come here...
please here we are talking and having a civilaized converstations , not kids one , so please there is no need for insults and so on , thanks

السلام عليكم
اخواني يرجي عدم السب و الشتاءم لأن احنا هنا بنتكلم كلام ناس متحضرين مش همج فياريت محدش يشتم لان كده حتسئ الي صورتنا كعرب و الكلام ده بقوله لان انا عارف ان احنا كلنا مضيقين جدا و متنرفزين من الي حصل بس بلاش شتايم و نكلم بأحترام لو سمحتوا
تحياتي  

8 Feb 2006 @ 22:14 by Hanan Taha @196.202.91.137 : hmmmm
Now Holand and Belgium are OBJECTING on Muslims newspapers having competition on drawing cartoons on the HOLOCUST and America is convicting Iranian newspaper for the same reason...hmmmmm...where is the claimed freedom of expression then?????  

9 Feb 2006 @ 05:42 by Mohammad Kanaan @212.77.203.246 : Taboos
Ming,

Your analogy about stretching your legs is not exactly what we have here. An alternative analogy would be if me and you were neighbors. Suddenly your son holds a sign on your front yard calling my late beloved mother some terrible names. I call you to resolve the issue but you refuse claiming that your house rules doesn't allow you to intervene in you child's behavior. Few months later, another neighbor's child holds the same sign. My question is: Do you think I have the right to ask you to stop?. You are assuming that the paper didn't have terrible intention. Knowing what the Queen said just few months earlier and the patern of behaviour of the Danish government make this hard for me to swallow.

No taboos:
Don't get me wrong here; we are not asking for censorship but rather asking for hate speech to stop. If you want to write a book criticizing the prophet Mohammed, then go ahead and do it. If you need any help with supportive material, call me I will help. You can criticize the Quran if you want as well. There are no taboos here. The only thing is: since this is something that means so much to so many people, do it with respect. Present an argument and refrain from insults and hate so we can discuss the issue in a civilized way.

This is not an issue of free speech vs Islam as many are trying to claim. It is an issue of Hate Speech vs Tolerance and Acceptance. To me, Muslims who held the signs in London calling for violence and the people in this forum who called for genocide against Muslims are two sides to the same coin. Abu Hamza Al-Masri and Jyllands-Posten are also two sides to the same coin. They all preach hate. We all should condemn them and ask them to stop.

Cheers  

9 Feb 2006 @ 05:47 by FReeThinkingAmerican @35.12.24.195 : Fuck them and Mohamed too
Seems they dont practice what they preach for a religion that is supposed to be non violent they seem to be some of the most violent bastards on the planet....No apologies here if freedom of the press is a God given right here and if they don't like the pic too bad so sad NOT sorry but in my opinion they really need to get a LIFE if they are losing sleep over stupid cartoons its called POLITICAL SATIRE you MORONS get a life whats next going to burn a flag because I said Mohamed is really a Satan worshiping Lesbian that had a sex change please why not put that effort into rebuilding your war torn countries and feeding the less fortunate....  

9 Feb 2006 @ 06:15 by Redco @62.114.93.17 : see this...
FReeThinkingAmerican ----- all of you saw what he wrote

i would like to say why you would insult a religon and our prophet + putting
FReeThinkingAmerican as your name , maybe you aint either american and just want to start proplems and thats it anyway , as i said up we are having a civilized conversation not kids one , so why insulting and why talk with no respect as along as ALL RELIGONS AND ALL PROPHETS FOR ONE AND ONLY ONE GOD
then why you insult any , it just show us how a kid mind talks , if you are an adult person you would have read and then talked with respect but i will leave others to comment about it specially MING , we aren't here to fight we are here to discuss a political proplem that need to be disscussed between adults civilaized people not Junkie kids who just come to insult and thats it

anyway i thank you for what you have said , and i will not insult you or america or whatever i will just ignore people like you whom they have kids non mature minds and thinking

our Prophet said in hadith " Faltakol khairan aw la tasmot" means that " if you will talk good about something say it else don't say it "
in other words if you will talk in a good way about something good say it , if not then don't talk better

thats why i will not answer you , i respect my religon and others , i respect that we are here to disscuss a proplem not to fight , by the way its really impressive to see what a " FREETHINKER " talks

anyway

thanks 4 all  

9 Feb 2006 @ 06:25 by Redco @62.114.93.17 : you know vibrani
that not even this people dont know but there are many western and many people , still think that Arabs live in deserts in tents , and guess what is it they even think that we ride camels and using computer on it thats when we log in lol , i think thats a point need to be cleared , because i think it is a way of missunderstanting and a kind of shortage in communications between arabs and other outer world

i think that will need a big step to show arabs and Islam to all people to know whats going on , and as i said up while talking with you about that Islam is against these actions of terrorism which is done by the name of Islam by people who goes against Islamic Rules and Laws

there is a big hole a big gap in the communications between both sides , which will need to be solved , maybe thats another reason for some kind of proplems that happens i think

see ya later  

9 Feb 2006 @ 06:36 by vibrani : Carlos Santana
on the Grammy Awards tonight reminded people of something (in Hebrew):
Kadosh kadosh kadosh adonai zevaot melo kol ha-aretz kvodo, holy, holy, holy is Adonai Zevaot; the whole world is filled with God’s glory. Let there be peace everywhere.

Even the angels in heaven (according to Jewish tradition) each of whom has a special responsibility, an expertise, or a concern, kulak knead omni vomit b’yirah stand united in their reverent praise of God with that saying.

Redco - there still are nomadic Arabs who live in tents in the desert, as there are modern Arabs living in extremely modern buildings, going to shop at huge malls with more conveniences and riches than America. The Arab world has those two drastic sides; the modern education with the Koran. But, how do those two really work together - how does the Koran adjust to modern times? I really don't know the answer to that - maybe you can answer it. I find it hard to see how they work together when with all the hi technology and still women are covered up and can't drive or vote or have sexual freedom or have higher education and careers in many Muslim and Arab countries.  

9 Feb 2006 @ 06:41 by Hana @203.101.108.27 : to Redco - denial
Man you are living in denial!! Look around yourself, there are masses and masses of those