Ming the Mechanic:
Gold mining New Civ community

The NewsLog of Flemming Funch
 Gold mining New Civ community2006-03-13 20:03
by Flemming Funch

Baron Berez has a proposal. Creating a community in Nevada, funded by a gold mining operation, but creating a new kind of community, a new civilization outpost.

Now, in the New Civilization Network there has a been a few proposals on the table over the years, aiming at creating some kind of community. NCN is about creating a different kind of world, and if it shouldn't be just talk, it makes sense for somebody to do it for real somewhere. But how? It seems like an attractive idea at first. Buy a desert island in the South Pacific, or some large piece of land far away from everything, and start over, and do things the way they should be done. But how exactly is that? Who decides how that is, and how do they decide? How does it get funded?

How to organize it still remains to be seen. But maybe Baron has an approach for the funding. 20,000 acres in Nevada that he acquired mining rights to at some point. Surveys have shown that there's around 1 million ounces of gold to be extracted from there. An ounce of gold goes for around $560 at the moment. It isn't a sure thing, of course. And it will cost significant money to set up the mining operation.

Baron is a shrewd businessman and investor who has done well. I don't know the details, but obviously he's somebody who doesn't have to work for a living. He's also about retirement age. And I guess he's more keen on doing something that leaves a bit more of a legacy.

The project needs some start capital to get going. $350,000 to set up an initial mining operation, to verify that it is viable, and to set up the legal stuff. 35 parts of $10,000 Baron is thinking.

But then the idea is that a significant portion of what would come in, 25%, will be directed towards creating a community, focused on building an infrastructure of sustainable and emerging technologies. Solar, wind, waste recycling, etc.

Can this work? Well, why not. It could be a very exciting project. If enough people get around it that find it exciting, at least. And if the plan is put together well.

There's a lot of unknowns there, of course. Lot of issues of who decides what, and according to which principles. A few major disagreements can throw off a thing like that. How would the community work? Would the investors have the final call on what goes? Would Baron? Is it a democracy? An anarchy? A corporate structure?

Does anybody think it is worth the trouble?

What I proposed to Baron was to just put it forward in a blog, and see who salutes it. Which is what I'm doing here too. A project like that needs to be able to withstand a bit of public scrutiny. Plus, it goes nowhere unless a group of people will find it exciting.

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13 Mar 2006 @ 22:00 by quidnovi : Gold Rush
My first reaction, would be, yes, this is a project which could prove a worthwile and profitable investment, especially if, as Ming points out, "Baron is a shrewd businessman and investor who has done well."

But, other than that, is it also a project from which the hubb of a New Civilization can be launched?

Those are two different questions.

St Bonaventure famously said in "Itinerarium Mentis in Deum" (The Journey of the Mind into God):

"Because it is the most simple and the greatest, it is wholly within all things and wholly outside them; hence it is an intelligible sphere, whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."

Well, he was not talking about NCN, naturally, but the image is a good one. The idea of a New Civilization as "an infinite sphere whose centre is everywhere and circumference nowhere," as always appeared to me as the fundamental strength of a potential nascent new civilization - i.e. something emergent, ubiquitous, pervasive and DECENTRALIZED. There is power in ubiquitousness and in decentralization.

As such, the emergence of a new civilization implies (to me) either a transformation of the old civilization through an awakening of consciousness and an emancipation (from central monolithic pyramidal control) of the individual all over the globe, OR the development of a parallel new understanding and way of doing things (aka "the second superpower"), again, all over the world, PARALLEL to the existing civilization, with the new civilization eventually taking over in the same way as Homo Sapiens eventually supplanted the Neanderthal man, OR a combination of both.

Baron Berez's commendable idea of setting up a new civilization outpost as a sort of experimental project, another Walden II community---and why not?---is not a bad idea as such. But it is hard for me to imagine it becoming anything but yet another part amongst many of the greater puzzle---a spoke not a hub---as it seems to me that the concept of a New Civilization is greater than that, greater than what can be envisioned or tested in a limited environment under a limited and very specific set of rules. The strength of a possible emerging New Civilization resides in its sheer size. If we think of the emergence of a New Civilization as the emergence of a new intelligence, a perfect analogy would be to say that it is less about building a super computer in Nevada, than it is about finding a way of creating a super computer by connecting all or most of the already existing computers all over the world.

That said, it doesn't mean that Baron Berez's project is not worth pursuing, and if properly managed some good might even come out of it. Like providing NCN with a self sufficent established center and an autonomous source of income.

One of the many problem the world is facing, however, is that most people are LANDLESS (a major problem in countries like India and many countries in Latin America - one of the causes of the destruction of the rain forest,) and a gold mine is a luxury most people do not have.

Baron Berez's question is not without value: Can one build an operating New Civilization community with a gold mine?

To me, a more urgent and compelling question would be: How does one build a new civilization without a gold mine?  

13 Mar 2006 @ 22:09 by swanny : Favors...
To Mine or not to mine

is that the question...

well yes and no...

One assumes one is "mining" for the right reason
or "intention"...

"intent" is perhaps half the battle...

We could as I have posted "ecomine"

any way heres a hot site... that seems to work
without the gold...


Favorville Link = http://www.favorville.com/  

13 Mar 2006 @ 23:38 by ming : Golden Spokes
Yes, what I'm most interested in about a new civilization is something that happens in parallel all over the place. Something without a central control post. A different mindset that just emerges. A new order of things. Yes, something that doesn't need a gold mine to work.

But the question is if a gold mine will help. Would it bootstrap anything? Would it maybe be just one isolated project, which maybe is interesting, but which doesn't add or subtract anything in terms of a new civilization. Or will it maybe get in the way, just be a distraction?

Part of what happens if some money gets on the table is that things sort of condense in various ways. People get serious. Realistic maybe? But maybe also greedy, in ways that might get in the way. People might join it for the wrong reasons. While at the same time, there's a certain sanity which needs to be present in a business venture for it to work, which can be healthy in some ways. One actually has to make some kind of machine that works, and it doesn't work just on fluffy disconnected ideas.  

14 Mar 2006 @ 00:10 by swanny : Gestures...
Actually what strikes me is the "gesture"
in itself, putting ones "money" where ones mouth is...
There is a lot of talk on the web and things are being "done"
in small ways but this is an "interesting" gesture...
It saddens me that some only see the "gold" physical and not
the "gold" in terms of the gesture. This sort brings and focuses
a little more "reality" to the table. This is why I relate
to the favors site, there is "heart" here? Yes? No? or Yes and No...
I guess then it complicates the dreamy vs the real...
well regardless of outcome... I choose to see or see a "gesture of gold"
But whats more valueable real gestures and acts and not mere lip service or gold? Maybe its the person, sorry B. not trying to overanalysis here.
I suppose part of the new civ philosophy is that all the cards on the table are
valid to some degree or other but a full house does still beat a pair
I think even though the pair may not know or deny it. Its all perhaps a matter of degrees of goldenness. Gold though valueable, a good conductor and acid resistent, and heavy is still mallable. Bronze (Carbonized Copper + Tin?) is a much stronger and utilitarian metal.
Sorry of topic.
Sorry as well I stand confused.


3 May 2006 @ 18:41 by baron berez @ : funding a newciv model community
I have made an offer to members of newciv.org that I propose to fund a real community where members can project their thoughts of what a new civilization could be like into reality.
I know that this takes funding and I have offered to put in profit proceeds from gold mines in Northern Nevada that I have an interest in.
This takes management of complex systems that form the parts of this plan and people who want to work to create this and share in the proceeds..

Do the members of New Civilization Network want to do this? Are they willing to participate, help and be paid for it? Am I to design alone a new economic system, create a moral code and ethics standard for a model new civilization community? I have not been able as yet to present a questionaire or survey to the total 10,000 NCN members to ask them. Some people just put me down for wanting to provide gold and money to create and develop this project. I have written most of the details of my proposal on my NCN blog called "Out of my Mind".

There are several parts to this project. Creating a model new civilization community has to be funded. No thoughts are going to create it out of air. I have proposed a plan to aquire up to 20,000 acres of gold bearing property, prove it up and mine, mill and smelt into gold bars 50 million ounces of gold reserves. Who wants to participate? (add your name to the newciv.org workgroup: Newciv Gold)for more info...  

Other stories in
2008-02-22 16:36: Blogging or Logging
2006-03-20 00:28: Key Concept
2006-01-31 13:08: The Wearable Home
2003-05-02 23:59: Fill the Chalice
2003-05-02 23:59: Xpertweb connections
2003-01-08 23:59: Psychedelic Futurism
2003-01-02 16:45: Help Wire Remote Laos Villages
2002-11-06 21:40: NewsLog Changes
2002-10-10 13:19: The Explorers Foundation
2002-10-07 20:51: OrgSpace

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