Ming the Mechanic:
Mohammed Cartoons

The NewsLog of Flemming Funch
 Mohammed Cartoons2006-02-03 00:25
916 comments
picture
by Flemming Funch

So, I mentioned the controversy about a Danish newspaper having published some Mohammed cartoons, which has created a huge negative response across the Muslim world. You know, Danish people being beaten up, Red Cross workers having to return home, countries closing their embassies, terrorist groups issuing death threats, etc.

French newspaper France Soir printed the cartoons recently, in the name of freedom of expression. The Egyptian owner of the paper fired the Editor in Chief. The employees of the paper got together and are demanding that he'll reinstate him.

It seems to be a very hot issue as well here on my little blog. Several thousand people more than normal came by here in the last two days. Some of them were Muslims trying to explain their righteous anger. Some of them were folks looking for an opportunity to bash Muslims. Some of them were Danes who're puzzled about the whole thing, and explaining what really happened.

I didn't see the actual cartoons before now. And, sheesh, I'm glad I found them. No wonder the Danish people are puzzled about what all the bruhaha is about. Because one would have to be extraordinarily vigilant or imaginative to find anything offensive about them. Essentially, like you might draw Jesus as a longhaired guy in sandals, you'd probably draw Mohammed as a guy with a beard and a turban. Duh. And most of the cartoonists here took the task in a tongue-in-cheek self-deprecating way. Like, the one above there. The text says "Hmmm, I can't quite seem to recognize him". A sort of comment on the fact that Mohammed rarely is pictured, so the blondehaired Danish guy can't really pick him out. Disrespectful? Why?

The only one of the pictures that even could be construed as offensive would be the one showing a guy with fanatical eyes and a turban in the shape of a bomb. Shouldn't really be a surprising choice to anybody, as a lot of what one hears about Muslims is fanatical people blowing themselves and others up as suicide bombers in the name of their religion. The drawing captures what mood one might imagine such people to have. Is that some kind of condemnation of all Muslims? I don't see it that way.

I suppose that the people who're so upset probably haven't seen any of the cartoons at all. And probably will close their eyes if they see this posting here.

I'm not religious, but I can imagine the point of a rule against the depiction of some religious figure. To avoid idolatry. I.e. that people start worshipping the picture of something or someone, rather than dealing directly with it. Aha. Well, seems like the opposite happened here. People are worshipping the lack of a picture, and rioting against pictures, and worshipping all sorts of interpretations, rather than just listening to what the man actually was saying. Or maybe he just wanted them to listen to God, rather than starting to worship him, which also sounds reasonable enough. But, again, the opposite is what happened.

Also, check out the Mohammed Image Archive. See, of course it isn't the first time that somebody drew a picture of Mohammed. There are lots of pictures, including some by Muslims, including pictures on magazine covers, in books, on paintings, etc. It is just that none of those created any kind of similar uproar.























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916 comments

3 Feb 2006 @ 05:16 by ashanti : Hmmmmm. Another dimension
Thanks for posting the pics, Ming, it does add some context to all this.

I think there is another dimension underlying all this. This is from speaking to some of my friends who are Muslim, in my country (South Africa) about this. Moderate, decent people. They too, find the cartoons offensive and very hurtful, but it is more so now, because of the global context of the "War on Terror".

Many of my colleagues are too afraid to travel to America, or Britain, or Australia. They are feeling persecuted and hunted by the West. Generally, over here, Europe is considered the more enlightened part of the West, than say America, Britain, or Australia. So when an enlightened country starts publishing cartoons that add to the general feeling among Muslim people of being demonised, hunted, and persecuted, it evokes much more of an outcry than would have happened before the "War on Terror". (Which many Muslims experience as the "War on Islam").

Just a viewpoint from some moderate South African Muslims.

- ashanti  



3 Feb 2006 @ 10:05 by James @128.39.74.11 : Mohammed the devil (the Satan)
Mohammed was either sick or the devil(satan) was speeking to him.
Either case, there is no contradiction between those to cases.
Islam originate from the satan(devil.
Please read this book:

ISLAM AND TERRORISM
Mark A. Gabriel, Ph.D., 2002

[link]

and you will see what I mean  



3 Feb 2006 @ 10:52 by Faidros @217.208.25.51 : Satan
James

If there is someone or something called satan im quite convinced he is speaking throug quite a few of those biblebelt preachers in the US to.

If I was satan I would use infiltration in churches, mosks ans synagogs as my main platform. Judging from history and the situation around the world it sure looks like he is doing that allready.

Strange how "fighting satan" reoccures through out history and in different religions as a reason to kill, burn and torture people. All in name of a loving god.  



3 Feb 2006 @ 12:23 by b : Muslims want others to conform to their
religion and their interpretations of it. I am in India. When I want to buy foreign product I go to an international store. Today I went to one to buy sandwich meat and they were having a big sale on tinned products from Denmark.
Unbelievable for me to realize this is a reaction to a cartoon? I stocked up on Danish hams in tins just in case this persists. I do like a ham and cheese sandwich on french bread with lettice and tomato from time to time.  



3 Feb 2006 @ 13:13 by ming : Moderation
Ashanti, thank you for that input. I can sort of understand that. It seems worse when it comes from a corner of the world one otherwise considered somewhat balanced and reasonable.

I need to remember to ask my daughter's friend from school who's a practising Muslim from Palestine next time he comes by. I also only know Muslims who are moderate, decent people.  



3 Feb 2006 @ 15:45 by kawtar @81.192.107.208 : l'islam
I have one thing to tell you:"EVERY ONE SHOULD RESPECT THE OTHER'S RELIGION"...I am muslim,and I know the feeling when someone talk badly about the islam,and I'm afraid to go abroad in order to continue my studies there coz there are lot of people who says "islam=terrorisme" so I prefer to stay in my country(morocco)..anyway I have a happy life here between muslim people  


3 Feb 2006 @ 18:25 by rayon : Religion is one thing.
What some people will make of it is quite another. Mohammed was a true prophet in the Christian sense of the tradition. I know a teenager whose family historically were forced to become Muslim - they forgot they were originally Orthodox - this young guy since turning 18, is going against his whole family, he has declared he is converting, reverting back to Chrisianity.  


3 Feb 2006 @ 19:14 by bkodish : Excellent Post, Ming!
You said "..one would have to be extraordinarily vigilant or imaginative to find anything offensive about them [the Danish cartoons]." I agree.  


3 Feb 2006 @ 20:20 by ari @68.7.238.184 : Muslims welcome to study and live in US
I wish people understood that the USA is welcoming to muslim people. We have close to 6 million Muslim people living here. I know many muslim students who are studying here and happy. The media has everyone believe that a war on the streets exist. It's quite the opposite when you turn off the television and stop believing rumors. The issues we speak about are among the minority representing people, right v. left, and people who feel it's important seperate and stir up emotion and hate. I think we can all agree that our governments and religious leaders can lead us in negative directions and we must not let this come between our countries and our goals. As technology continues to make the world a true global economy, many centuries beyond our life time, the world will live in harmony, since eventually peace will prevail. We don't need war and hate to continue. Open government, property rights, market economis, education, and caring for each other are hallmark. There was a time before I lived in Russia post soviet union, twice, that my country USA (US State Dept) had me believing that I shouldn't talk to the Russia people, they might rob me, steal my clothers and money, once they realized I was an American. Well, it was quite the opposite in 1993 & 1994. The Russia people were very kind and warm welcoming, and eventually I discovered on my own that these were people much like myself. Striving to be better educated, raise families safely, spend time with friends and try to make more money to provide a better living standard than our parents and generations before us.

It's very unfortunate that this cartoon issue has stirred up the masses, at least media is loving this story and it's keeping it alive.  



3 Feb 2006 @ 21:22 by IslamIsDying @212.33.117.231 : ...
Rofl they ran out of virgins....
To all you danes i'm sorry to say, YOUR IDIOTS, why the hell did you apologize to these Dickheads??? You are free to do or say whatever you want, you shouldn't apoligize for posting funny pics about mohammed( PISS be upon him), in fact some of those pictures reflect the truth about islam, a bullshit religion based on sex and killing founded by a FAKE prophet  



3 Feb 2006 @ 22:50 by B.L. @154.5.101.63 : FUCKIN FANATICS
AS a canadian I am peacefull and i accept any culture.But religion is a threat to peace,IT always as been that way,just look at the past and present religion wars.When your religion become the most important aspect of your life and you think that your religion is the only thru one combined with lack of education and mostly lack of a quality of life ,you start to believe that the after life gonna be so much better and you see death as a liberation.Many religion have been succesful making peoples believe that.The fight of the future should be tryng to educate so people abandon their religion because religion is the treat!  


3 Feb 2006 @ 22:56 by ming : Islam
Hey, hey, I didn't post this as a general invitation to bash Muslims. On the contrary. I find these cartoons to be innocent, relaxed, friendly, and certainly not intended as any kind of evil campaign against Islam. They were made as a comment about the state of freedom of speech and religious censorship.

I find the reaction to them totally out of proportion, totally unfounded, and, frankly, insane. But, no, for me that doesn't translate into meaning that Islam is altogether evil, or anything like that.

All religions are pretty crazy if we examine their beliefs literally and rationally. They invite people to live in a fantasy cartoon world. But that apparently gives a lot of people meaning in their lives. And there are more religious people than non-religious people. So, we have to live with the crazyness somehow. But that doesn't mean it should be allowed to rule the world. Allowed to exist, be tolerated, left alone, respected. But no religion can be allowed to set the rules for everybody.

Anyway, I'm leaving all the abusive messages in place in these threads, because, well, they illustrate the problem. In other settings a lot of them would just have gotten the delete button.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 01:10 by nogs @86.132.53.60 : response
So glad to have found those cartoons that have received so much coverage but the general press have been unable to show.
I cant really see what all the fuss is about- sorry.
Islam is respected- but through fear.Consider the life and fate of Mohammed Christianity is seen as weak and a good target to mock safely.Think of the life and fate of Jesus. Atheism is untested - think of the life of Hitler-he would breed people like we breed dogs. I dont understand hinduism or Budhism, but amidst all the violence and threats abounding with Iran seeking a nuclear arsenal to match that of Israel, I do hope there is another way. Remember the violence and loss of life during the partition of India. Did not Gandhi force a peace by fasting? Odd that. If only America focused most of its military might and logistics into say disaster relief eg after the Tsunami and in Pakistan- Americans could stand tall and proud OUTSIDE their own nation  



4 Feb 2006 @ 02:20 by ed brown @67.34.31.4 : all of this unrest over a cartoon.....
the muslim world thinks nothing of blowing up innocent babies and women,but let someone draw something about the sacred raghead leader and all hell breaks loose?
i think these people are some of the biggest racists in the world.they think nothing about burning our flag,and trashing our religion(chritianity)saying or doing anything in the world on behalf of moehummer the raghead?i am tired of their trash and all they beleive in,i think i am going to get a group together and burn their little KORAN in front of cnn and let them beam a bunch or georgia rednecks burning and stomping on their book of bullshit all over the cnn sidewalks,let them beam that image all over the world.WE ARE ALL TIRED OF YOUR CRAP!!!!!WE HAVE SEEN ENOUGH.just wish you didnt have all the oil.......  



4 Feb 2006 @ 03:17 by C Strife @86.131.235.117 : O_o?
Islam (extremists) is gonna kill HOW many people over this? *Pities Muslims* and is it just me ,or are we on the brink of a major "Holy War?" oh,wait...no it's just getting worse thats all...and i bet its gonna get a WHOLE lot worse before we see any sort of end to the situation.

Too me...the cartoons just look like all the other cartoons in newspapers...crap. Crap the likes in which you see on the side of the street. Crap that should be sniffed at then forgoten about as quickly as you walk by, would you clean it up...? Doubtful.

C Strife - Some Guy.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 03:20 by Io @195.248.99.170 : Oi oi oi...
"Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who!"
Each person is an individual! Everyone thinks differently. What I cannot understand is why each group hates each other if this is so? It's primative behaviour from both sides..ape like creatures!  



4 Feb 2006 @ 03:23 by C Strife @86.131.235.117 : Indeed...
Blantant ignorance and blind fear...humans ¬_¬  


4 Feb 2006 @ 04:06 by John @82.42.101.29 : Cartoons
I think the reasons for publishing these pictures was understandable. There is a big divide between our cultures and in Europe many people see the surge in immigration as a real threat to their traditions.

It almost seems that our governments tip toe around these new citizens in fear of upsetting them, so much so that it's political correctness gone mad.

In Britain we enjoy a very diverse culture and whether you're white, black, asian, muslim or jewish you're welcome. We openly accept and encourage other religions, gay rights and freedom of speech all help to make this country one of the most liberal minded in the world.

Whether it's true or not a lot of people here feel that this new element of our society want us to be accepting of them but show little or no tolerance for our traditions.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this of everyone and I'm not even saying it's true but it is the perception.

Certainly the images of Muslims today in London only helped the far right to paint an ugly picture of Muslims who have no loyalty to the country they now reside in, and all it took was a series of cartoons.

Banners included slogans like "democracy go to hell", "remember 9/11" and "kill those who insult Islam" and a Muslim leader shouting "Mohammed said whoever insults the prophets kill him".

No doubt this is the far right of Islam and not reflective of the majority, but this is the common image we see. Lets see more anger in Islam for terrorist rhetoric, lets see an outcry from the Muslim community over this backlash of violence.

The cartoons where meant to show the worries some people have about immigrants flocking to their country and appearing to have no respect for their ways and traditions, so lets discuss this and move on.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 04:20 by Jenny @69.158.147.22 : Hmm
I am personally still in shock how a group which it fully entitled to have its own beliefs and follow its practices without any restrictions from the nations which they inhabit feel that their beliefs extend to all people outside that group, and are far greater than the fundamental rights and freedoms of those nations. I feel bad for all Muslims who disagree with this ridiculous behavior as they are propagating the very images they claim they are not. It truly is a shame. I could never imagine that anyone could react to humor protected by our right to freedom of speech and press in such a way.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 04:28 by J @69.158.147.22 : Rights & Freedoms
If you choose to reside in a country you choose to accept their laws and customs. You expect acceptance and tolerance, then you must do the same. If you have a fundamental issue with the laws/traditions/customs of the country- leave. You don't like freedom of speech, move to Iraq (or any other country which follows your censorship needs). If you accept them, live freely and happily under the flag of that country with tolerance and acceptance from both sides. Have we forgotten what it actually means to be a citizen?  


4 Feb 2006 @ 05:01 by I am gonna kill you @202.135.248.10 : Fuck you
Fuck y'all christian
y'all just fucking coward
y'all just fuckin' chicken ass
wait till our future leader come, all of you will die  



4 Feb 2006 @ 05:03 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : I am Muslim
we muslims do not accept such jokes thats why we asked for a simple apology as it offended us denmark drefused thats what all the thing about ...... thats racisem to mean to mok our relegion.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 05:07 by SHAYKHOON @62.135.96.186 : Hey hey!!!
and to who ever named i am gonna kill you.......man they are still our responsebility + dont talk like that plz ......last i am guessing ur not muslim u just wanna poison our picture to the world ......because no Muslim ever swears to christians .... simply if they knew thier relegion and what Great Juses told them they wouldent have done such a thing  


4 Feb 2006 @ 06:09 by Satanic @86.144.16.194 : A PORTENT OF THINGS TO COME
See How easy it is to start a "holy War". Let the West take care, realise that we are outnumbered by the hordes that may fall upon us. Now is the time to launch a NEW CRUSADE. Let The CROSS of JESUS smite the unbelievers before it is too late. The storm clouds of Islam are gathering. If we do not take decisive action now it will be too late. Purely forecasting population growth, if the trend of the last six years is continued, Muslims will outnumber christians in Britain by 2070. Do you want a bunch of lunatics that threaten death to anyone that that disagrees with them ruling you?  


4 Feb 2006 @ 06:17 by Satanic @86.144.16.194 : To SHAYKHOON
No Muslim ever swears to Christians? Come to Bradford, here the muslims petrol bomb christians, particularly ones that have seen the light and converted from Islam!  


4 Feb 2006 @ 06:29 by Mel @24.254.132.139 : Mohhamed Cartoons
They already have a fatwa on the world. A little humor is needed but the murderous ways of Islam isn't funny...Really!!  


4 Feb 2006 @ 08:20 by James @82.43.145.116 : Mohammed Cartoons
My own view is that these cartoons are pretty harmless. I believe that Islam is in dire need of reform. As with orthodox Judaism it maintains a very literal interpretation of ancient teachings. This inevitably leads to conflict in the contemporary, multi-cultural, multi-faith world we all live in. Muslim brothers, chill out, life is for living and laughing. I would remind all that there are several examples of equally offensive (if not more so) cartoons paradying Jewish life in many Arabic publications. This happens, yes it provokes, yes it can be insulting, and yes it can hurt ... LOVE ALL.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 10:09 by biffo @80.177.103.20 : much ado about nothing
apparently some protesters were chanting things like "bomb, bomb, denmark" and "bin ladens back" which is kinda stupid considering they're protesting over cartoons depicting mohammed as a terrorist. also as james said in an earlier reply "I would remind all that there are several examples of equally offensive (if not more so) cartoons paradying Jewish life in many Arabic publications" so its the pot calling the kettle black. maybe muslims in general cant take a joke? either way all the protesting and anti danish sentiment is only going to increase islamaphobia in the west in my opinion  


4 Feb 2006 @ 11:32 by İSLAM REPUBLİC @85.101.114.211 : fdf
please  


4 Feb 2006 @ 11:57 by JOAN MEHMET @82.3.32.72 : WHY DID U MAKE THIS PICTURES
watch im gonna get a little group and burn the BIBLE.BIBLE.BIBLE.hahahahaha .get a life u americans .get out of NORTH AMERICA .THAT IS RED-INDIAN LAND. U DO NOT ORIGINATE FROM THERE YOUR FROM EUROPE.AND DONT SPEAK ENGLISH AND FRENCH. SPEAK AMERICAN .ME GONNA BURN THE BIBLE.COM ON MUSLIMS.FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS. MADE UP RELIGION .JUST A DRAMA LESSON. U CHRISTIANS MADE UP RELIGION .FAKE.fake. FAKE. FAKE .FAKE CROSS  


4 Feb 2006 @ 12:00 by KEVIN MCCARTHY @82.3.32.72 : why??????????????/
FAKE.FAKE CHRISTAN . NO MORE CHRISTMAS .NO MORE CHRISTMAS  


4 Feb 2006 @ 13:33 by Wilf @217.206.109.2 : Why?
What the hell is the world coming to?
I have woken up this morning with no particular agenda for my day and simply picked up my morning paper.
inside i read of incitement to violence, protests on the streets, and full blown hysteria over what? some cartoons?
So i decided that i had to see these horrific "craven images" to see what all the fuss is about.
Well ming thanks for the post, im glad your displaying these as they need to be seen. If these images were not available (as some other websites have done) then this argument would have no informed opinion what so ever.
My background is a Jewish and Christian one (living in England), and was shocked to see the blatantly anti semetic cartoons printed in the daily mail, displaying those printed on a regular basis in arab news papers. When questioned about these, they claim that they are part of the culture, i consider this a strange cultural characteristic.
I haven’t yet decided what to feel about this, i am just posting this to put some of the previous posts in context.
Myself, i feel that this whole issue is primarily incited by the media. Not just European but Islamic as well.

I myself have no prejudice to any race and, i think to do so is to restrict the civil liberties of others and does nothing other than to Unnecessarily piss people off.

I hate that such a meaningless thing can cause such a debacle and worry about the future peace of the earth.

I completely agree with the post saying that life is for living.
Go out, have fun, don’t piss other people off and don’t take yourself too seriously.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 13:42 by Walid Moukarzel @82.205.157.26 : The Mohamed Pix
I think that regardless of how much the pictures are disrespectful or hurtful, the people are over reacting!!! threatening and burning flags is just as disrespectful and they have been doing it some time now...

PS: Lebanese here...  



4 Feb 2006 @ 14:25 by joe @82.3.32.72 : why
i'm not being racist or anything .but most of the muslims in the world come from asian backgrounds. if u are white and u find out your friend who's white turns into a muslim. what will u say to him. will u still be his friend??? would u call him a terrorist??? or get him beaten up??  


4 Feb 2006 @ 14:28 by Chris @66.159.178.42 : Mohammed?
How does anyone know that the pictures are supposed to be Mohammed? They could be anyone in a turban. Do the Catholics riot when there are comics about the Pope or Jesus. There have been all kinds of cartoons, and movies making fun of Christianity and Jesus. Do the Christians freak out and beat innocent people up? Burn countries flags? I don't think they do.

The comics are A. Not even funny
B. Some could be any arab in a turban
Really let's all get a grip here. It's a Freakin' cartoon for God's sake!  



4 Feb 2006 @ 14:29 by N-MaN @85.101.203.158 : You are stupid...
If you liked these cartoons (!) you are stupid. When you see these you must ...
Herneyse siz benim dediklerimi çevirin. Bunu yapan da saçma yorumlarla savunan da geri zekalının onde gidenidir. Hiç mi akıl etmez öbür dünyada başına neler geleceğini???  



4 Feb 2006 @ 14:31 by joe @82.3.32.72 : why
if your a christian your a christian talk about your religion .if your a muslim talk about your religion.then there wont be humans arguing ,fighting ,suicide for terror.and there will be peace. hope fully. every 1.anyway have u heard what happened in indonesia. a group of 100 street gang. broke throw a danish embassy or something there.because of the danes .there could be trouble  


4 Feb 2006 @ 14:44 by jmarc : Tolerance
"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil"
--Thomas Mann  



4 Feb 2006 @ 14:55 by Ahmed @62.135.89.70 : my comment
i will only say to all danes fuck you and we will destroy u economically by boycotting ur products  


4 Feb 2006 @ 15:14 by vibrani : Spoken like a peaceful Muslim
of course, Ahmed.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 15:16 by vibrani : more peaceful Muslims
Danish Embassy in Syrian capital of Damascus set on fire during protests over cartoons of Prophet Mohammed, Syrian officials say. Cartoons that you can't even tell who is in them.

How long will people pretend this isn't a serious war, like a war with Hitler? These guys are nuts. "What luck for rulers that men do not think." --Adolf Hitler. Those of you who know me, remember in 2000 and prior I warned that soon these extremists will be on your doorstep unless you take action? But you preferred to pretend everything was fine. Ho hum.

When people are raised and live in a society that is not free, how can they understand the consciousness of real freedom? They are demanding that non-Muslims submit to their will, the will of Allah, through blackmail and violence. They want to remove our freedom. Then they have the nerve to say they don't force their beliefs on anyone else? They demand respect for all of this, too. Talk about backwards thinking.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 16:11 by PotShot @66.82.67.44 : Ludicrous
These backwoods yokels actually believe it is acceptable to riot, maim, and kill over a drawing? And then they claim to be men of God? If anything they are only confirming the stereotypes of Muslim culture presented by the cartoons.

The most embarrasing part is the cowardly attitude of the US government and US newspapers. Why won't the NY times, the Chicago Tribune, or any other major US newspaperprint these drawings? Have we become so cowed by the violent intolerant behavior of Muslim society that we are actually starting to bend the knee?  



4 Feb 2006 @ 16:12 by vibrani : Sure
you have to be politically correct, you know.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 16:20 by Laila @70.26.43.107 : The whole cartoon thing
Im a 'moderate' muslim living in Canada, this is a title i think attached to anyone who isnt a fanatic but whatever. Im just tired of the ignorance:
Islam teaches peace.
Islam does NOT equal a desire to eliminate anyone else for not being a muslim.
There is a culture in which people beleive this, and use islam as an excuse, but this is a CULTURAL beleif, not a religious one.
Im just really tired of people being vocal without knowing what theyre being vocal about. If youre really upset about terrorism, look to the root of it: for the same reason so many people became Nazis (one of them), lack of basic living standards. Thats why the Palestinians have resorted to such measures, not that i condone it in any way, but please dont post anti islamic messages, referring to terrorists, when you dont even know who youre talking about!that is a cultural problem. Youre probably sitting safely at your computer, with a fridge full of food and a roof over your head. Appreciate how lucky you are!
Yes i think the people who blow themselves up are nuts, but i have the advantage of not growing up in an environment of poverty, being told that X and Y are the reason for my situation. Im not supporting any side, i just feel that theres been a viewpoint that has been missed.
To me Islam=Peace.And its wrong for ANYONE to be violent.
The interpretation that the Quran is not open to interpretation, is in itself an interpretation. Just consider another viewopoint before you open your mouth, or post a message somewhere, maybe then the world wouldnt make me and alot of other people want to scream.
Oh yes, those cartoons? I dont care for them, but they dont bother me really. I respect that they are someones opinion, and i enjoy the opportunity for discussion they open...but thats only good when people are willing to listen. Fanaticsm occurs everywhere, in everything, those people only last when equally closed minded people begin to follow. Peace Out!  



4 Feb 2006 @ 16:24 by vibrani : I think
you missed the messages on the other pages of this - particularly those in which I say that extremists have become the voice of Islam. There are very few peaceful Muslims speaking out. They have allowed themselves to be hijacked by NOT speaking out more. We've had many conversations here, and many over the years. And please don't assume you know anybody here, because you don't, and you are categorizing us!  


4 Feb 2006 @ 16:48 by Laila @70.26.43.107 : To Vibrani
I didnt assume that everyone on this site was the same, my comment was aimed at the people who leave messages on sites like this that are blatantly one sided, for example the 4 Feb 2006 @ 11:57 by JOAN MEHMET(?) and 3 Feb 2006 @ 22:45 by terrorist n° 1 comments...apologies to anyone who took offence to my comment but it was just that-a comment. I thought it was not aimed at people who are open to discussion but clearly i need to work on communicating better. Again, no categorizing intended, just a plea to get people to think. I didnt think that would be offensive, but sorry if you found it so.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 16:52 by mohammed the shit sticker @207.118.215.100 : Mohammed is a fake!!!!
I wiped my ass the other day and looked at the paper as all decent Americans do when we sit on our throne thinking about Mohammed and watching him be reborn, ahhhh the terrorist bastard was a creamy crop this time around and for the next guy I am sure as well. Any way, the cartoons were the greatest and our paper in San Antonio is republishing them again to ensure religious freedom as we enjoy it about as much as the terrorist thieves do over there!!  


4 Feb 2006 @ 16:56 by Mohammed takes it in the ass!!!! @207.118.215.100 : You die Motherfucker
The death threats should stop before someone loses an eye mohammed!!!!(His Bi-Sexual Mother) Take the hint and just blow yourself up some more you fuckers, you are the cowards holding women as hostages and beheading folks that are innocent, Look out Iran and Syria you are next for regime change, we will be filling your sisters and daughters full of western jizz in no time  


4 Feb 2006 @ 17:03 by vibrani : Thank you, Laila
apology accepted. That is one of the things that happens on a blog - someone can jump in and see a comment and think that's all there is to it, and not realize there is a lot more going on in other sections, and in other places on this site. This discussion is not something I get into lightly. I do believe in peace, too, and just trying to find more Muslims who can be that voice. I offered a discussion with some Muslims on the words of a peaceful Imam, Sheikh Palazzi on my log, but no one has said one word about him so far! That speaks volumes to me. One fool actually said he is a traitor.

With a doctorate in Islamic sciences from the Institute for Islamic Studies and Research in Naples (by authorization of the former Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia), and ijazzah (authorization to teach) both Koranic exegesis and Islamic law from the prestigious University of al-Azhar as-Sharif in Cairo, Palazzi backs his somewhat surprising positions with citations from the Koran and traditional Muslim sources.

So, what we see is a majority of fruitcake Muslims who have no interest in discussing their religion honestly, knowledgeably, and encourage violence and ignorance.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 17:20 by Laila @70.26.43.107 : Again, to Vibrani
I was just on your site, and trying to figure out how to write a response to you there...i cant see a link..Im also new to the whole blog/commenting thing too so maybe i just dont know where to look. Im getting off this site now, ive said what i have to say, but thanks anyways. I dont know why ordinary muslims wont give themselves a voice, there are the extraordinary ones like Irshad Manji, perhaps its because were used to relying on them. Or maybe its that alot of people feel that theres no point in saying the same thing over and over, i dont represent anyone except myself, and i choose to vocalise my message with people, the internet is already full of stuff. I feel like im making more of an impression when im face to face, you never experience the real people online. Have a good one!  


4 Feb 2006 @ 17:22 by vibrani : You, too, Laila
thanks. Maybe you can talk with Shaykhoon hahahaha. My comments were only for members on my log. You can join here, if you like.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 17:30 by JOAN MEHMET @82.3.32.72 : WHY
i AM SORRY FOR WHAT I SAID .I DIDN'T REALLY MEAN IT AND I APOLOGIES.SORRY  


4 Feb 2006 @ 17:37 by vibrani : Ming
a couple of your pages has stuff like the above.

[hm, strange things to post, the full copy of Oedipus, and a FAQ for a video game, but off it goes --Ming]  



4 Feb 2006 @ 17:46 by Joe Winkelmann @67.9.30.255 : Ask me if I care!
Cartoons of Mohammed (the madman)
As long as Muslims advocate the eradication of Israel, I don't care if they feel offended!
As long as Muslims kill and torture Christians, I don't care!
As long as Musliims remain intolerant of other religions, I don't care!
As long as Muslims continue to contribute to civilization like they do (NOTHING). I don't care!
As long as Muslims behead their benefactors. I don't care!
As long as Muslims advocate the death of America and try to infiltrate this country for their nefarious deeds, I don't care!
As long as Muslims consider a cartoon of their beloved leader as grossly offensive. I don't care!
If they choke on their oil without which they otherwise contribute nothing to civilization. I don't care.
Should we be attacked by Muslim fanatics and we drop a A-Bomb on Mecca. I won't care in the least. If Israel throws out the Palestinians once and for all. I won't give it a second thought. (Any country which elects a terrorist as their president (Arafat) then elects a terrorist organization to run it does not deserve to be a country or exist!  



4 Feb 2006 @ 17:48 by Confused @196.40.43.78 : Religeous symbols
No one seems to have noticed that non muslims probably didn't know that it was
against "the koran,sharriah law,Mo's teachings,or any other religeous commands"
to show a picture,cartoon or other representations of Mo. If you have a belief
that has a "non standard" idea, thats your problem! How can you expect other people to know or "respect" your ideas if they have no knowledge of them!  



4 Feb 2006 @ 17:52 by PotShot @66.82.67.44 : Standards of living are Not the cause
In response to Laila's claim that poverty is the root cause of Islamic terrorism, I can only say it is the completely false excuse of an Islamic apologist. I have spent 4 years of my life doing development work in some of the poorest regions of Africa and Latin America, first as a Peace Corps volunteer and now as a coordinator of a private development NGO. There is certainly a correlation between poverty and violence but poverty is a very relative thing and the form and severity that violence takes has much more to do with local culture and history than broad economic factors.

Take Guatemala for example. It is one of the poorest countries in the western hemisphere. 70% of its people live on less than a dollar a day. It has also suffered great violence and social upheaval which the US and other western countries are partially to blame. And yet, Guatemala has never spawned a terrorist movement. The violence that exists in the country is spawned by gangs, or wealthy mafiosos and military types. The country's inhabitants are for the most part welcoming to foreigners and do not blame the US or any other nation for their suffering. I live and work with people who literally have nothing - no food, no water, not even decent clothes and yet they do NOT resort to violence as a solution to their problems.

The current wave of Islamic terrorism is not the result of poverty or imperialism. This is a gross simplification. While poverty may be contributing factors, Islamic terrorism is primarily the result of a SICK culture which tells people to blame the foreign infidel for all their problems. The Koran and its preachers bear responsibility for this culture which is rooted in the teaching of Jihad and the violent acts perpetrated by Mohammed and his followers.

Many of the terrorists who have launched attacks in the U.S. and Europe were educated and relatively wealthy young men. How can anyone honestly believe that suicide bombers and terrorists just want a bowl of cornflakes and a new pair of sneakers?  



4 Feb 2006 @ 17:52 by someone @80.218.142.186 : sad about you ming
he you all
i thougt you want to make a better world?
with provocation, hate and fanatism
there will nothing change to be better...  



4 Feb 2006 @ 17:58 by vibrani : It is an untrue claim
about poverty equaling terrorism. People of all faiths have been in poverty, and yet they don't all resort to terrorism. Just look at the record of all the attacks by Muslims against non-Muslims. Buddhist temple and statues destroyed, priests killed. Christians also. Jews also. Compared to the very few isolated incidents of hate groups, Muslims take the prize for wanting to destroy anybody, anything that isn't a Muslim.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 18:26 by jobrown : I don't think
it is the joking per se what angers Muslims in this case. I think it is the INJUSTICE how and WHO can be joked about!!!....ANYBODY here on Planet earth who DARES to make similar jokes about Judaism and especially the sick politial militant movement called Zionism, (which indeed has peiople from "all faiths" in its ranks ) POSING as GENUINE/pias Judaism ( and -of course, nothing could be further from the Truth!) AND YOU CAN END UP IN DETENTION CAMP /PRISON FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!!!... THIS is the INjustice the Global COmmunity HAS to CORRECT somehow -or in short time there will be no Global Community!....
ALL Pigs are equal, as we all know, eh? ...only some are more!.... do we start to understand that too?????????????  



4 Feb 2006 @ 18:29 by vibrani : You sure
get all of your hatred about the Jews out in public,any chance you get, and you're not locked up, yet. And you want to preach about justice?! hahahaha  


4 Feb 2006 @ 18:38 by James @82.43.145.116 : A second opinion
I posted an initial comment this morning and decided to pay a return visit to the site to see how the debate had broadened. It is poignant, revealing and sad to work through the various postings. The ignorance, anger and sheer, excuse me for saying, but in some cases ... hatred, perfectly reflect the way in which this debate is developing around the world. Community hysteria, political point-scoring, teenage chest pounding, media provocation, media retraction and cultural prejudices. Please, enough. These are cartoons, mere representations, folly, of the moment sketches, purpose-free and light-hearted. They will not be hung on the walls of venerable institutions for the curious minds of the children of tomorrow. Perhaps the time has come to open our minds and stop sharpening them. Love all. J.x  


4 Feb 2006 @ 18:54 by Englishman @86.8.116.177 : Imaginary Beliefs
All religion is bollocks anyway. The only reason we have a god, or whatever your religion calls him, is so as people think that there is somewhere to go when you die, this so called "better place", and so aren't as frightened of dying. When in reality there is no god, no place to go when you die. When you die that's it, end of story.

Now all these muslims are kicking up a fuss about cartoons of someone who has never existed, it's the muslims in general I laugh at, not the cartoons.

I wish there was some way I could show you all that religion is bollocks, but unfortunately I can't. When the real moment of truth arrives though you'll all see I was right all along.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 18:58 by atila @85.97.54.176 : not a matter of depiction
Hi, I have to say that I share the views of the Canadian. That any religion is a threat to peace, that there is a need to educate people in order for them to opt for religionless, peaceful living. As an atheist living in Turkey, caught in the middle of east and west, I feel insecure to take sides. However
I think it is fair to argue that these cartoons were drawn for a giggle. But then, the other side is so different. People in Europe do not understand the fact that mohammeds pictures cannot be shown. Anymore pics may set on fire more embassies of the west in the ME. I think the west is searching its new 'beast', because capitalism has to produce more to survive. It has to sell more weapons, so it needs more wars, be it guerrilla or global wars. The beast cannot be simply islam. The main problem of the people in the middle east is poverty. Some of these countries may be rich but their people aren't. Today Kingdoms and Secular dictators in the ME face the threat of being replaced by Radical political groups, but just as things turned out in Soviet Russia, it won't do any fairer share of income distribution. Religion being its disguise, it will only set up new dictatorships. Therefore, people in the ME need more education, so that they opt for peacefull means of change of power. I think people in the west need to understand that people in the rest of the world live in poverty, and when they revolt,burn up embassies, whatever the reason, they protest everything, they not only protest for depicting mohammed, but also their painful lives. On the western side, I understand that people of the west complain that islamic people usually wear a sullen face, and that is not friendly. I find it boring and repulsive too, but we cannot simply abondon these people, we have to win them over but without dominating them. Nobody in this century will buy into that, everybody knows everthing in todays world.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 19:03 by atila @85.97.54.176 : addition to 'not a matter of depiction'
People here can sell any government if they know the other can fill their pockets more.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 19:38 by SoA @83.73.187.23 : Some thoughts from Denmark
Well, I just happens to be from Denmark.
In Denmark u can say whatever u want, unless it offenses a minority group/racism.
So u can understand that are alot of opinions on this matter in Denmark alone. But heres how I see it:
A newpaper, thereby the PEOPLE and not the goverment, decides to print their opinions. That they have the right to do. They also have the right to be held responsible for any offensises - taking against the Danish law.
I'm not much into law, but it seems that it is within the "freedom of speech"

The Muslim MUST respect this! Even if the drawings in fact WERE offensive we still have our right to do so! - then again the Muslims have all the right in the world to boycut/riot/attack danish people IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY! (no offens, but thats all I c in teli)
I just can't understand why some riot against Sweden or Norway?! (Denmark's nabos) or why rewards are offered to whom brings the arthour of the drawings to justice, more correcly to MUSLIM JUSTICE!

What even wonders me more; IIRC the Quran says that "Picturing gods may lead to false worship" (or the picture insted of the actual God)

I don't know of any religion that dosen't have something equal, but I kinda get the impression that the Quran in some cases is inded "misintrepetated"... It also states that "No one should be forced to a believe" - yet the concept "Jihad" exist?!?!

Although I find some of the post here rather offensive against muslims, I'm afriad I must take part of that, as I too do not like the Muslim way of living nor thinking. (dont like the german language either) Generaly you seem very conservative, and it is in my belive that "holding on to something that works" - kinda hinders the way for innovation - a concept I'm very fond of. Now, that is just the impression I've gotten. I'm not saying people from the West are ANY better, (hate humanity in general) I know alot of really nice Muslims, and even got some Muslims friends.

It's truely an exciting topic and looking forward to seeing how it evovls.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 19:45 by Ramon Cabezanova @70.226.90.226 : Ugly Troubles
After wading through the incendiary posts here, it is sad to see one of the few sane posters (Laila) backing off of this blog immediately, due to the crap being thrown around by unmoderated flamers. This story reminds me, I'm not sure why, of the story of the Dalai Lama who, when asked if he was angry with the Chinese government for the devastation of Tibet, said something to the effect of "They have taken my country from me. Why should I give them my happiness too?" Surrendering to faith requires this sort of humility, this sort of trust that, however dark the ignorances of others may seem, pressing our heads into the same darkness is not the answer. I support any economic and diplomatic response a culture feels necessary to show disapproval, the violent response (beatings, embassy burnings, etc.) are a display of sheer ignorance. On another note, as an American, I found it bizarre to read of any group shouting "Death to Denmark!" Death. For all Danes. Because of cartoons. Absurd. This story is like handing Fox News a propaganda WMD.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 20:01 by john @24.0.155.242 : Mohammed
islam is a perverted cult and have the muslim women ever wondered, why they are involed in a religion that tells there husbands if they kill, there reward is virgins. Satan is Mohammed and there religion is without love. It's just a cartoon. How many people have mocked Jesus and did you ever see christans behaving like muslims. I wish the people in the middle east could see there religion for what it is- a cult.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 20:03 by bora @81.213.122.86 : you know the subject
My comment is especially for the human-like creature which has written the lines at the end. Here are some infos and some comments:

sexually transmitted diseases is more common in christian areas(africa, eastern europe)
christians burned the library of Alexandria(whic is the greatest in medieval times)
they started number of crusades
they enslaved millions of people (colonial expansion of europe)
they started two of the world wars
they killed jewish people
they killed muslims (in bosnia) and destructing the most beautiful architectures(bridges, mosques...)
they used nuclear sciences to kill mass of humans (in hiroshima and nagazaki)
in every corner, they are the great sellers of weapons (especially in africa)
they fight against civilians in Iraq (where there was no chemical weapons but was a lot of petrol)
USA, still has nuclear missiles and poxvirus
BUT YOU SAID
"islam, a bullshit religion based on sex and killing founded by a FAKE prophet"
I think that you are the greatest idiot in the world (excuse me idiots)

If you think that muslims are against civilisations (like another said), it means that the system of education which educated you (including culture, familiy and school) had never said you that what muslim scientifics did formed the origins of the modern science. (you may have to know who invented algebra or who wrote the great medical book CANON)

BUT EVEN THOUGH CHRISTIANS DID THESE I DON'T FEEL HAVING THE RIGHT OF INSULTING THEM FOR THEIR RELIGIONS (BECAUSE CHRIST IS ALSO MY PROPHET AND MORE IMPORTANT I AM CIVILISED

Lastly, if the freedom of insult is essential, we have the freedom to punish it.

"Rofl they ran out of virgins....
To all you danes i'm sorry to say, YOUR IDIOTS, why the hell did you apologize to these Dickheads??? You are free to do or say whatever you want, you shouldn't apoligize for posting funny pics about mohammed( PISS be upon him), in fact some of those pictures reflect the truth about islam, a bullshit religion based on sex and killing founded by a FAKE prophet "  



4 Feb 2006 @ 20:05 by swanny : ....
....  


4 Feb 2006 @ 20:27 by jobrown : ALL
have their High-end Spiritual Scriptures truly in harmony with Love and Life; one this "this" Insight, the other through this Insight, but BOTH working FOR Unity and Harmony and GOOD WILL towards ALL God's Creatures! And the ALL have the very foundational Insight spelled out loud and clear , which is: " Do Unto Others, as YOu Would Have Them Do Unto You" . This Cosmic Clarion Call has thousand of years been the Foundation for ALL High End Spiritual Teachings!!!
ALL "Religions" have their LOW End reps (fanatics/fundamentlists) among Humanity as well. These Low End Teachings are there to SEPARATE "us" from "the others; the BAD ones"!!!.. you can see the accuracy of this, my statement, just by reading these comments here today! That should talk loads to ALL of us!.....

" There is Healing, when the Radiance of Love replaces all our fears" How does Love replace fears???... By us understanding that pain & sorrow & confusion etc is pain & sorrow, regardless who eperiences the pain & sorrow & confusion etc. Feelings of abandonment, and insecurity are the same in all corners of the World as well as in ANY person's deepest corners of the Heart! We are INDEED ALL MADE IN THE SAME WORKSHOP and we ALL CRY IN THE SAME LANGUAGE -and the feeling of JOY ir released in ANYBODY's Heart by the ONLY COSMIC KEY that unlocks true Joy: TRUE FRREDOM!!!....

Health on all levels of beingness unites ALL Living Things!  



4 Feb 2006 @ 20:58 by Paul @66.214.96.60 : Death to all Fanatics! :)
I know I'm jumping in here way too late. But it's quite simple really. Continue publishing the pictures. Better still, have everyone start doing it, everywhere. Let a million mohammed pictures flourish. Diversify! It's about time that we all start sticking to our principles of being free. Free against any sort of censorship. I could care less what all the muslims think. if they don't like the picutre, DON'T FUCKING LOOK AT THEM!!! That's YOUR religion, not mine. They can all go to hell. And if for one moment, you think this is because I am of another faith.. NO. Same goes for any faith, religion, group or person who trys to do the same. As far as I am concerned any angry reaction from any group on any image is INSANITY, and should be treated as such. To respect that, is to respect someone with a gun to my head. Maybe, just maybe, in a life and death situation I will SAY what I have to do to survive, but genuine respect will NEVER COME. I am at a point that the whole muslim world can go kiss my ass. And yes, I deeply dislike Christian fundamentalism too, as well as Bush and American foriegn policy as well. The whole damn thing is insanity and I want no part of it.

Robert Anton Wilson is right, we are living on the planet of the apes!!  



4 Feb 2006 @ 21:09 by Bstar @4.17.129.67 : Hypocrisy
A few years ago the Taliban demolished two very ancient statues
of the Buddha.

If the millions of Buddhists around the world had risen up in
protest, do you think the Islamic world would have given a shit?
What about the rest of the west? They would have mutely sat by
or mumbled "they shouldnt have demolished the statues, but the
Buddhists are acting idiotically" -- perhaps even have put the
protests down.

But now, 11 harmless and one somewhat offensive cartoon of Mohammed
and the Moslem community rises in unison against the outrage --
freedom of speech does not give you the right to offend religious
sentiments, they say. Well, where were these vaunted defenders of
religious sentiment when the Buddhas were being smashed. Or do these
sentiments only count if the religion being offended is Islam. Do
you think even *one* of these morons would have risen and so much
as snapped a yap if someone had burnt a Bible? Christians and Jews
are *explicitly* vilified in the Koran (and dont give me BS about
the loving nature of the Koran. The relevant verses are easy to
find on the web, if you care to look and in any any copy of the
koran that you can buy in any bookstore). That causes me great
offense. Whey aren't these defenders of religious sentiment protesting
against it?

I dont agree with offending a large fraction of any population on
purpose. To the extent that the Danes and many of the other newspapers
have published these cartoons expressly for that purpose, they are
plain wrong. But the protestors are, at worst, jokers, and at best,
utter hypocrites. Worse, I dont believe even 1 percent of them
have actually seen the cartoons. The cartoons never appeared in Syria
or Palestine or Pakistan. Yet, the populace there are burning
embassies. In other words they are violently protesting against a
rumoured outrage that they havent really seen or comprehended. What
do you call such jokers? Idiots? Fools? Or sheep?  



4 Feb 2006 @ 21:21 by Xavier @83.55.97.198 : sensitive gods and silly stuff


Personally, i find hard to believe in ANY god that will be offended by laughter,or hurt by it.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 21:43 by jobrown : ALL FANATICS are
just that: FANATICS and ALL are equally wrong in their fanatic ways and equally dangerous!
NONE of them is "Better" than the other!.... this is a MAJOR point for the Global Family to learn to understand!
Dogmas have been used too long already as some kind of Sacred Garments to wrap around one's body and then go out and do evil and say "you can't defend yourself coz, look what "Garment" or "Flag" I have around me as my foolproof shield!.... this piece of Dogma/"cloth" both entitles me to my evil towards you, little piece of shit and protects me against your retaliation" .

TIME TO STOP THIS MADNESS!!!

Want something worthwhile to read while cooling off, from this "debate": " "Warpaint of the Gods" by Nila Sagadevan. www.warpaintofthegods.com  



4 Feb 2006 @ 22:06 by Avenger of Islam @172.201.217.21 : ALLAH AKBAR
YOU ARE ALL ZIONIST KUFAR. ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGERS WILL PREVAIL. YOU WILL SEE THE ERROR OF YOUR WAYS WHEN YOU BURN IN THE HELLFIRE.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 22:09 by Embassies Burning @172.201.217.21 : Burn baby, burn.
OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP! OH SNAP!  


4 Feb 2006 @ 22:19 by Elizabeth @68.163.248.237 : the Islamic Reformation is ongoing
I am stunned by the amount of condescension, hostility, and utter ignorance I see here. To those with the "oh, get over it" attitude: Many of the people in the Middle East and Asia HAVE NEVER HAD A TRADITION OF FREE SPEECH. Among western nations, even where there is a strong Christian ethos, speech that questions or mocks religious traditions is tolerated because free speech and dialogue are valued, except where they incite others to actively harm people. Islam, however, is a religion that advocates complete submission to God in accordance to the Q'uran; you cannot mock something or even make jokes about it and still be completely submissive. To someone who practices Islam--and I mean REALLY practices it, not just dabbling or being a "Friday Muslim" if you will--questioning or mocking the prophet is an atrociously harmful act. Consider: if you are a Muslim, you MUST believe that God sent the Q'uran to Muhammad, verbatim. If you make fun of Muhammad, you are making fun of someone so incredibly holy that he was chosen of your own Creator to do his most perfect work to date. That is something to take seriously if you are a Muslim, especially if you are an Arab Muslim. In the Middle Eastern tradition, whether we're talking Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, God tends not to have much generosity toward those who flout, question, or mock His will and/or Being: he has a tendency to smite them, and often those around them get smitten as a side effect because they didn't act to stifle the offensive behavior. Thus the low tolerance of blasphemy: if you sit there mocking God (or his prophet), his wrath may not just fall upon you, but also upon your family, friends, neighbors, and even total strangers IF THEY TOLERATE YOUR BEHAVIOR. The backlash against the Danish cartoon is not simply an overreaction among "savages" as a lot of people appear to think: it's an expression of the very real concern that the cartoons are offensive to God himself, and that the consequences of offending God could be, not to be ironic, universally bad.

I know that the concept is tough for those of us living in the western world, where we have either turned to a more personal and spiritual understanding of God as a "best friend" or a benevolent, kindly parent figure or have boxed God into a regimen to be taken out on Sundays and at bedtime and ignored most of the remaining time. But before you start feeling smug about how rational the Christian world is, try to remember your history. Hasn't anyone heard of the Protestant Reformation? There was a time in the Christian world when making even mildly disparaging remarks about the central religious authority could get you burned as a heretic. BURNED ALIVE. There is no more painful way to die. The thousands of people who died violently and horribly during the backlash of the CAtholic Inquisition? Christianity went through the same horribly divisive and deadly throes that Islam is going through right now only a few hundred years ago (and it still isn't completely over, it's just a lot less violent than it was in the middle ages). The big difference is, the Christian world underwent its Reformation in an age when there was no mass media; the Islamic world is not so lucky. We are smack dab in the middle of what appears to be the Islamic Reformation, and yes, it's violent, but don't forget we have seen this before among Christians. Only diff is, the Muslims are doing their Reformation in a mass media environment, which tends to magnify the reactions. Individual sense tends to get swept away by passionate emotional responses, made all the more intense by images shown on television. Anger begets anger; Middle Eastern and Asian Muslims are already fairly angry at the West (and with justification--never mind Iraq, let's talk about decades of exploitation and imperialism on the part of European nations, and we won't even mention the Israel/Palestine conflict...all right, so we WILL mention it), and when they see even mildly offensive images such as the cartoons in question, it turns simmering outrage into boiling. It would behoove those of us who are not Muslims, therefore, to be a bit more sensitive about blasphemy in the Islamic sense, and to have a little bit more compassion toward a religious faith undergoing some fairly severe changes under a glaring spotlight.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 22:24 by vibrani : Be sure to include yourself
Blueboy as an equal fanatic in your little list.

Why do so many religions make God in human's image? Good wants sacrifices, and murder? Wouldn't you think God could handle all of that for Itself, if It really was that kind of a God? Why would it ever need humans to do Its work for It? It created EVERYTHING, afterall. Even lets you be a complete idiot and deny Its existence. It isn't needy or dysfunctional and isn't on an ego trip - humans are. And It isn't a man, either.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 22:32 by Martin @62.252.224.13 : French revolution
On the French revolution course at my university one of the questions posed is ‘Has the French revolution ended?’.
The answer to that is categorically YES!

Why? Because on 2 feb 2006 ;-

The managing editor of France Soir, Jacques Lefranc, was fired after the publication (of religious caricatures) by owner Raymond Lakah, an Egyptian magnate, employees said. No official reason was immediately announced.

Raymond Lakah, although not a Muslim is a resident of Egypt on of the most radical of Islamic countries, did so solely on religious grounds; this has in effect put France back to the period before the revolution when religious bigots governed.
Allowing the mindless rantings of a minority world group to dictate to the DEMOCRATIC, FREE west is unacceptable (there Are 3 times more non Muslims than Muslims) the ranting is amounting to a demand that the west embrace Islam.
As they wish to impose there own religious intolerance up on the west they are more like the Nazis than any other group (even the BNP).
Like the Nazis they revere their Leader (as there is no head of Islam you can assume I am talking about Mohammed) like a GOD!
Like the Nazis any insult to there leader is met with death or threats of death.
Like the Nazis they believe that anything said by their leader is true regardless of its historical or scientific inaccuracies.
To demand that the west accept that their god is the only true god is beyond a joke, to site their law and demand its imposition on the west is totally unacceptable Islamic law is not valid under any democratic society and never should be. Any Democratic leader or politician who condemns the freedom of the press and in effect the freedom of all western and indeed all non Muslims has no right to represent the people of his or hers country.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 22:40 by vibrani : Muslims
want to destroy modern life only because they're afraid we will prove their religion to be wrong. Muslim believe that anybody who fights Muslims is an enemy of Islam, and then it is only right that they be killed.

Go to CNN.com and see the new video of a new French documentary "Suicide Killers" on female suicide bombers. Another way Muslims are destroying women. This is one way the women feel equal to Muslim men! Screwed up! They're actually convincing these women that God has announced that they will be the prettiest virgin in heaven after they die. They only live for this massive illusion, not for life on earth, so they don't give a shit about anything here. All these fake promises of rewards in heaven drive extremists to their terrorist activities and suicide. If they all hate life here on earth, why would they have a problem getting a little help over to the other side so innocent people don't have to die with them? The joke will be on them when they get to the other side, anyway.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 22:48 by Some fucking 16-year old dane @212.99.255.41 : who is involved..?
Why does this thing have to be so generalized because of some poll out of 1000 people..? Why can't these islamic people who wants to see blood just don't kill the involved..? Like the publishers or our prime-minister...Well i don't think that our Prime-minister should apologize..? We live in a democracy and every single person is living their own life, he can't apologize because some idiots published the prophet...Is it just me or what..?  


4 Feb 2006 @ 22:49 by martin @62.252.224.13 : cartoons
i visited my local shop earlier today the shopkeeper a Muslim was very angry over the cartoons, and was in full support of the demonstrations and threats to the publishers, he openly said he would willing kill for Islam, this is a common problem as all Muslims tend to agree
I intend to get a tee shirt mad with the following caption to ware to uni ::

I LIKE DANISH BACON  



4 Feb 2006 @ 22:50 by vibrani : hahahaha
that will go over big, Martin.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 22:55 by Andy @84.9.13.114 : Mohammed Cartoons
Muslims need to lighten up, their dark complexion with no sense of humour and a permanent chip on the shoulder is a joke.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 22:57 by martin @62.252.224.13 : above
I do like Danish bacon and I do believe in freedom of speech and freedom of the press freedom to be myself, freedom from oppression and really want to see what the uni does to those Muslims that attack me as that is assault and as I retired from martial arts undefeated do I really give a fuck?  


4 Feb 2006 @ 23:01 by vibrani : you go, Martin!
Wear that shirt with pride!  


4 Feb 2006 @ 23:10 by James @82.43.145.116 : the Islamic Reformation ... a view
I found your post illuminating Elizabeth. I was interested in reading your views about the global village viewing the potential of an Islamic refomation, the subsequent harsh consequences and the tolerance we would all ideally wish to adopt in understanding the motives of some of the more extreme elements in the process. I do feel however that despite all the best intentions in the world, lines are being drawn and sides are being taken. Perhaps this is one of the key elements in the reformation process you discuss. Love all. J.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 23:15 by Islam will win in end @196.202.81.19 : ALLAH SHOW THEM THE TRUTH
don't ever believe what you hear or see on your T.V . all are FAKE dirty things about islam.i'm a man that loved or maybe adored America and Europe but guess what???!!!! if u people learned about islam without just talking as donkeys without even understanding anything about that religion, u will know that you are all wrong.who said that Muhammed (peace up on him ) i promise them that they will be just FUCKED in the end , i really promise that.come to our islamic countries and learn islam,don`t see what happenes in your TVs cause they are fake.BE TO ALLAH,HE HAS YOUR BIRTH AND DEATH .  


4 Feb 2006 @ 23:22 by martin @62.252.224.13 : islam
There you are typical bigoted Muslim, I know Islam, I worked for 4 years with Mohamed Khan (one of the 7/7 bombers) and the others at Iqra Bookshop in Beeston, Leeds, there were and are the most bigoted racist egotistical mutters I have ever met it wasn’t the War that drove them to bomb but their religion! and how that are brainwashed by the imams at all mosques.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 23:30 by vibrani : More threats
from these so-called peaceful Muslims. Just let Mo try to mess with me! He hasn't got a prayer....he'll take off running with his forked tail between his little legs.  


4 Feb 2006 @ 23:40 by tracy @66.245.44.203 : WWMD - What would mohammed do?
What a wonderful opportunity for introspection. I wonder what the prophet would be saying right now were he alive? Being a seeker of truth first of all I don't let anyone else tell me how I am to relate to my creator: god, allah; jhwh, etc, etc.

The fact that Mohammed disapproved of images has more to do with people worshipping images rather than the truth which can only lie within and not be seen. I feal that anyone who reacts to images as being disrespectful fails to understand the message of spirit. The sad thing is those who react against the images only serve to reinforce the view pthers have of them and how they practice/INTERPRET their faith. All religion is an interpretation of the message and 99.99% of all who profess to believe in anything get it WRONG. This is where the heart of the problem lies. It doesn't matter what anyone else believe about your religion. It only matters what you believe in your heart. If you walk the talk of love, this life will only improve3 for you and those you touch.

Blessings to all.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 23:40 by Daniel @24.118.4.87 : Perspective
Freedom of the press is something that cannot be questioned, infringed upon, or otherwise censored. Regardless of the content, or the "sensitivity" of the content or message, when we start putting up barriers - like with our civil liberties after the 9/11 attacks, we will never get them back.

I am a Christian - I have seen my religion negatively portrayed by others in print, speeches, and other forms of media. Even with the literal justifications that are indicated in the bible, I have never thought of attacking, kidnapping, or killing other people who have opposed my viewpoint. What right can ANYONE think that they have to take these actions when they are offended at the message?  



4 Feb 2006 @ 23:42 by Rick @216.175.66.24 : Some thoughts ...
Some say all religion is the cause of all wrong. I say if you selectively read your to justify intolerance, then you are deviating from your intended destination which is God.

It is beyond me how anyone can want to harm another of any faith (including those of no faith) in the name of God. It is also beyond me how anyone can say such an act is God’s will. This is not God’s will, it is the arrogance of mere humans. The audacity of such statements is astounding.

I actually can imagine Christianity responding similarly to objectionable cartoons about Jesus … up until say the renaissance (14th-15th century) or at the latest perhaps the Enlightenment (18th century). Did God change? No, we Westerners did the changing … culturally, socially, politically, and theologically through the efforts of Luther, Voltaire, Locke, Calvin, Rousseau, Wesley, and others.

Islam has not been through that change yet. It’s going to happen and I’d say we are all witnesses to their transition right now this instant. Damn few established power structures ever willingly allow change. I pray for tolerance, wisdom, guidance, empathy, and real justice that rights the wrongs of the world in ways that END THE CYCLE OF VIOLENCE.  



4 Feb 2006 @ 23:43 by vibrani : These guys don't know
if Mohammad gives a damn about these cartoons. Mo was just a man. Not a god. Just as Jesus was a man, not a god. Same with Buddha. Same with Moses. Where are the goddesses? Ah yes, not there.

If one is confident in their own beliefs, nothing will sway them and it won't matter what anybody else says or thinks about it. As long as they don't force it on anybody else.  



5 Feb 2006 @ 00:12 by بو عبد الله @62.150.186.29 : المشكله اعمق بكثير
لماذا؟؟؟؟؟

فهم خاطى كبير بسبب نقص المعلومه هل تعلم بان المدارس فى اوربا تتجاهل وبشكل متعمدتثقيف الشعوب الغربيه باى شى حول الشعوب التى تعيش بجانبهم هل سمعت عن انسان اوربى يتقن العربيه طبعا نادر هل رايت فى اوربا اى علامه كتبت بالعربى طبعا لا....ماذا يعلمونهم..حول جيرانهم سأقول لكم....( لديهم نفط ولكنهم شعوب همجيه متخلفه)..وكأن العرب لم يساهموا باى شى فىتاريخ البشريه المشكله يا اخوانى بان هناك من يصر على ان تكون الورود ذات لون واحد وهذا بالطبع شى غير مقبول نعم هناك اشياءسلبيه كثيره من جانب الشعوب العربيه والمسلمه ولكن من يقود العالم هم الغرب فهل الغرب يقبل بالشعوب على ثقافاتها ام انهم درسوا ليعتقدوا بان اى لون يخالف لونهم.. أقصد هناالثقافه فان هذه الثقافه متخلفه هكذا تعلموا تخيل بان معظم الغربيين لا يعرف اى شى عن العرب والمسلمين والكثير منهم بدأيقرأبعد احداث سبتمبر البشعه لماذالانهم ممنوعين من قبل قادتهم0الفكريين. هذه هى الحقيقه واقع الامر هناك تاريخ قديم سى بين المسلمين(العرب وغيرهم) والشعوب الاوربيه وهناك الكثير من الامور التى يتناقلهاكل طرف حسب تفسيره ولكن ان اردناان نهزم المتطرفين فى كل جانب على الجانب الغربى الحمل الاكبر لان الوسيله تحت يديهم مثال( كيف أستطيع أن أصدق بأن فرنسا التى برلمانهايعتبر احتلاله للجزائر كان عملا انسانيا.. كيف اصدق بان الفكر الانسانى اصبح سائد بالتاكيد لااااا) المشكله فكريه وليست اقتصاديه نعم نحن فى العالم الاسلامى والعربى علينا ان نطور تعليمناوعلى الغرب ان يبداء كذللك  



5 Feb 2006 @ 00:26 by infinitynexus @82.192.160.50 : Nothing wrong with religion
Theres actually nothing wrong with religion.. in its own sense, its a decent alternative to the rules of the jungle.. But every religion fails BECAUSE theres people with power who are corrupted in it.. humans are the failure, not the religion  


5 Feb 2006 @ 00:31 by martin @62.252.224.13 : TRANSLATION OF ARBIC CRAP
THIS IS A TRANSLATION OF ARBIC CRAP USING TRASNLATION SOFTWARE
Understood [xaaTY] big because of [nqS] [aalme'lwmh] is learning in to the schools [fY] [aawrbaa] ignores and in shackles [mte'mdtthqyf] the people [aalGrbyh] [baaY] [shY] around the people [aaltY] living in their side is reputation about human [aawrbY] [ytqn] [aale'rbyh] of course rare is banner [fY] [aawrbaa] [aaY] his perceptive wrote [baale'rbY] of course not….What teach them. .[Hwl] their limes punching will say….(for de their blistered and for their his his backward shelter people savage)..[wk'an] Arabic did not contribute [baaY] [shY] [fYtaaryx] [aalbshryh] [aalmshklh] [yaa] [aaxwaanY] in to there from bundles on that formation the roses of self of color one and this in the printing [shY] other than acceptable blessings there [aashyaa'slbyh] many his from side of the people [aale'rbyh] [waalmslmh] and to are from the their scientist the strangenesses so Hill of the crows leads the people on her educations of mother kisses in that them studied to believe in to [aaY] color their color contradicts. Intend [hnaaaalthqaafh] transient this [aalthqaafh] backward his this way imagining know in to most of western not knows [aaY] [shY] about Arabic and conceded and many from them [bd'ayqr'abe'd] renewing September [aalbshe'h] [lmaadhaalaanhm] forbidden before [qaadthm]0[aalfkryyn]. This [hY] [aalHqyqh] happening the matter there old date [sY] between Muslim (Arabic and change them) and the people [aalaawrbyh] your weakness a lot of the matters [aaltY] [ytnaaqlhaakl] edge according to his of interpretation and to are that [aardnaaaan] defeat extreme [fY] all side on the side [aalGrbY] the pregnancy big be soft [aalwsylh] under their hands of idealization (how can to tell the truth in to France [aaltY] [brlmaanhaaye'tbr] his occupation for islands humanitarian works was. How tell the truth that the cerebration [aalaansaanY] became dominant [baaltaakyd] [laaaaaaaaaa]) [aalmshklh] his cerebrations and not economic his yes we [fY] the world [aalaaslaamY] [waale'rbY] on us to develop [te'lymnaawe'lY] the crows that [ybdaa'] [kdhllk]  



5 Feb 2006 @ 00:34 by john @69.181.51.251 : RE: Mohammed cartoons
Isn't the primary tenet of islam that there is only one god named allah and mohammed is his last phophet. Isn't that statement alone offensive to anyone who believes otherwise.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 00:36 by vibrani : It's rubbish
to me. Not offensive, particularly. Shows their lack of compassion or respect for anyone not a Muslim, shows lots of ignorance and a bad ego, inferiority complex. Martin, does that actually make sense to anyone? If so, they have no mind (that means intelligence, wisdom and heart).  


5 Feb 2006 @ 00:43 by Ultrecht @68.251.110.150 : At your own risk
I find it amazing that we are consistantly having to watch what we say and fear the reprecussion related to our minds. I want to feel strongly about opening all boarders and letting people go and say what they want at will. But proven by some religious communities, letting some people cross boarders, is a mistake in absolute. I am a Christian by upbringing and love the fact that as an American, I can question the validity of my faith and the history of the written word. You just have to pose a question to yourself, no matter what your faith is. Why would God pit two religious factions against each other? What purpose does it serve? We learn two different contradictory lessons from religion. God is caring and compassionate and God is a vengful and retributional being of swift justice and total anhialation. If this is your belief, then it explains tornadoes, hurricanes and flooding in the United States. It explains drought, abject poverty, and civil unrest in the Middle East. If you want to take a lesson from religion, this should be it. All religions are at fault as far as many are concerned. These are much bigger issues, than some idiot with a pencil drawing a picture that offends you. I'll tell you what, everyone that is interested can send me a picture of your mothers and I will draw something really offensive for you. Muslims, Christians, Buddists, Taoists, Shintoists, Moroms, Hindus, Kabalists, or the worshippers of any animal on earth. So, in all respects to everyone who will read this, may God give you and your families peace and prosperity, and grow the f*** up. Oh and I think STOP STOP WE ARE ALL OUT OF VIRGINS is the funniest one.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 00:43 by Rick @216.175.66.24 : Lost in translation
Martin, well that certainly lost something in machine translation.

Infinitynexus, its pretty hard to argue with the maxim "Absolute power corrupts absolutely". I don't buy the argument that that is why religion fails us, however, since it is ultimately based on relationship between the individual and God. I don't think it's God that's trying to muck up the relationship either!  



5 Feb 2006 @ 01:05 by martin @62.252.224.13 : translation
yup it just shows that the arabic language has changed over the years as the translation program (its costs £1000 and i got it for translating german and italian not for the arabic translation) used the quran as a guide to the language as muslim scholers claim that arabic has not changed since the writtin down of the quran ... bollocks if thats true the translation should be perfect LOL  


5 Feb 2006 @ 01:09 by martin @62.252.224.13 : iqra
for all you muslims the site iqraleeds was designed and produced by me for the bookshop the intor was designed and produced by me including the recording do you know what it is ? [link]  


5 Feb 2006 @ 01:16 by Rick @216.175.66.24 : Another translation attempt
I don't read arabic and it's frustrating not knowing what the author originally intended to convey so I gave a shot using [link]

"They sewed a big because of the decrease of the information does it know that the schools in Europe neglect and by the form of the western Mtamdtthqif of the nations with any grilling around the nations who live in their side did I hear about an European human he masters the arabic a rare printing Wright appeared in Europe any mark wrote by the Arab of course no ....What know them ..Around their neighbours I will say for you ....( they have an oil but they are nations a barbaric is its backward ) ..And as if the Arabs did not contribute with any grilling of the human Fatarikh the problem O a Muslim Brotherhood by that there who insists that they is the roses with a single colour and this definitely an unacceptable grilling yes there the Ishiaslbeh of its many from the nations the Arab and Muslim but who leads the world they are the West then do the West turn by the nations to its cultures or that they studied so that they believe that any colour disagrees with their colour .. I mean Hnalthqafh, this culture its backward so they learned an imagination that most of the Westerners do not know any grilling about the Arabs and the Muslims and many of them the Bdayqrabad of the hideous events of September is a forbidden Lmazalanhm from their leaders 0 intellectual . This is the truth the matter reality is there an old history the European Sa between the Muslims ( the Arabs and others ) the Muslims ( the Arabs and others ) and the nations and there many of the matters that end Ytnaqlhakl according to its interpretation but that Irdnan defeats the extremists in each side on the western side the greatest load because the means is under their hands an example ( how I can believe by that France that the Brlmanhaeatbr of its occupation to Algeria was a human work ..How I believe that the human thought became dominant certainly Laaa ) the problem is intellectual and is not economic yes we in the Islamic world and the Arab ones on us that we develop the West Talimnaoala that it shows"  



5 Feb 2006 @ 01:17 by Support Change In the Middle East @68.251.110.150 : Have fun with this one
Why would anyone in thier right mind go to the Middle East to learn Islam, when extremists there kidnap people, threaten and actually behead innocent people. Why would you even get mad about Western countries coming in and trying to establish peace when you can't obtain it on your own. You can get mad at America or any other country as much as you want, because even though some innocent people are dying, it doesn't compare to the millions murdered by a hitleresque HUMAN BEING in Iraq, you are getting ready to hold as a martire. When it comes down to it, I was not for the war in Iraq. If a whole country can't converge on a centralized power based on breaking legs and raping women to save themselves and the future of thier own children, then why should I really give two shits. I was however in favor of a CIA assasination of the so loved dictator. Why would anyone kill Christians when as a whole, they don't represent government or governmental views? They come over as missionaries and bring food and hope for education for all (MEN AND WOMEN)who are both equal in GOD'S EYES. If women were really inferior as a whole, then why aren't men carrying babies for nine months and growing breasts. Women are inferior and no one can really objectively fight this issue, but Men are equally inferior to women. Women have babies, have better control of thier mental facilities, are more objective when it comes to thought, and have a higher tolerance for pain. Men just hit harder, and yell louder. Christians, don't converge and start riots, kidnap people, cut thier heads off in praise of retribution. This was the mode of demonstration during the Crusades, and practiced by both sides. There comes a time when you have to negotiate. We have been there for a long time. If you don't get there soon, then you will just destroy yourself. God is the Only God and JESUS WAS HIS SON. Praise God. By the way, Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the world. What did Moehammed do? I don't know how to spell his name since I can't find it in the Bible. If you read the Koran carefully you will see that his name wasn't actually Mohammed. Her name was Amalya Shamat from Damascus.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 01:35 by Leif @83.219.199.121 : ignorance
This is a case of ignorance feeding on itself! Westerners who are upset that muslims are offended by something individuals in Denmark have published have themselves to blame and muslims upset with westerners for something individuals in Denmark published, ditto. Ironically due to all of their own ignorance the whole world is focusing on pictures of someone who should apparently never be seen. Way to go media for bringing that into the light. remind me never to draw a picture of mohammed for any of my muslim friends, the subject never came up... Ignorance just keeps getting more and more dangerous. Who knows maybe someday everybody will be put to death for any and all spiritual beliefs and the animals will clean up the mess ignorance of mankind created.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 01:38 by jobrown : "Islam will win in the end"
this just shows what's wrong with particular fundamentalism -regardless which one it is: Everyone of them sees themselves secretly-and sometimes not so secretly- as the -sole- Winner "in the end"!...CROOKS ALWAYS WORK TOWARDS THAT END!!! Oftentimes they use eachother as accomplises, each having a secret Plan how to get rid of the accomplises once the /Goal/Trophy is achieved/gathered; just like in "A Fish Called Wanda"!!!
How can you say such a thing: "Islam will win in the end". Is your own psychology ( all religions are an expression of psychology )a question of competition -like in Pissing Match- in the name of God?... Learn to heal your aching soul instead and learn to relate to ALL sad feelings be it felt by you or someone else -even women!!!! Learn to feel compassion when seeing someone in distress... -or even just because they exist! The Jesuites, who like to be cruel to little Altar boys, think the same; "we will eventually win". Bush with his twisted "christianity" is sure he'll win "in the end" . On 'n' on it goes!... Geeez guys!
So, let's cut through ALL "religious" "ideological" "sacred" chase and be a little Down to earth REAL: Peniscomplex; that's what you all have!... afraid the guy Nextdoor will have a bigger n better!... MuuuuchoMachoooo!You are all pathetic! 'n you know what guys; these cartoons here are quite funny! Gave me a good chuckle!... -especially pic nr four! Then again, this is NOT the first time I see some GOOD cartoons/charicatures about some repetitious stupidity being held sacred by some MuchoMachotwits!...
In the link here is much more Life-important - IF your frazzled nerves can allow you to any thinking resembling CLEAR thinking!... I know, that IS to ask a LOT ... most men (read older boys) are genuienly not able to think past the ever shrinking treasures in their pants!...

[link]

Let's be fair here, there's a lot of crapp in fundamentalism Islam, just like in fundamentalism 'Christianity' and the rest of the fundamentlism religions!

Common decency towards ALL, goes a long way in creating Understanding and more Harmony among ALL people! EVERYBODY: TRY THAT FOR A WEEK and see/feel the difference in your Human interactions! This, BTW, is a "job" that is "never" finished for ANY of us, I don't think.... In other words: It has to become our "Way of life"!


 



5 Feb 2006 @ 02:31 by jew @216.67.40.96 : arabs
I don't understand why we, the advanced westerners don't just bomb to shit
iran' nukelar sites and in general ground them with airforce whenever they show
they scrawny little balls. I am sure that would make them turn to christianity
and civilized ways. You can try to convince a dog that your argument is correct
but unless you stick it's face into kaka it won't stop shitting on your carpet.  



5 Feb 2006 @ 02:32 by Wake Up Europe !!!! @70.237.228.12 : Fuck Allah Fuck Allah
I don't know who is the bigger idiots Muslims or Europeans for lettings Muslims in. Send them back to the desert or fire up the stoves!!!! SS  


5 Feb 2006 @ 02:39 by Mani @204.210.237.22 : Moderation and tolerance please
I was born a muslim and grew up as a moderate muslim. I left when my secular countery was seized by islamic fundamentalism. I am familiar and fearful of islamic fundumentalism, but I am not fearful of Islam and neither should anyone elsebe. Having lived in europe and the US I have seen the many faces of intolerance, by muslims as well as by non-muslims. I have also seen gnerosity, kindness, tolerance and acceptance by both. The current reaction of the "muslim world" to the cartoons is an unfortunate developement. However, the messages of hate in responce to the reaction, posted on this website by the islam-hating westerners, is also unfortunate. What grabs and disturbs me is the call to violence and anhilation that is heard with increasing ferquency by both sides. It is as if there is a recurring human need for blood and we are looking for excuses to start demanding it and shedding it yet again on a gigantic scale in the 21st century. The current mentality of live or kill the muslims makes me wonder if we don't live a preamble to a 21st century genocide of the muslims, or anyone who is suspected of being one. This is what a lot of moderate muslims fear. We must remeber and watch out for our own individual tendencies towards violence, and look everyday to remove the seeds of violence from our hearts and intolerance. Many advocates of free speech on this website are enraged at the reaction of the muslims to the cartoons. I wished that muslims had a better sense of humor, but not all of them do(Elizabeth eloquently and generously explained the reasons). With an eye on our own hearts let's remeber that we can't demand of people to have a sense of humor, we cann't demand that they be able to laugh at themselves.

I agree that islamic fanaticism is a menace to the globe, as is exploitation of the poorer countries, poverty and ilitracy. For me and my family, the west has been the refuge from the opressions of an islamic government. I believe that the existence of western democracy and tolerance require continuos hard work by responsible, sensible people. The biggest menace to the western democracy might be the knee jerk reactions of some of its people and the nurturing of hate values. Today it is the muslims who must be crushed, tomorrow the chinese, then the gays, then the artists, etc. History has shown that one generation is indeed capable of wiping out centuries of cultural growth and advancement. So please, let's be careful with what we have.  



5 Feb 2006 @ 02:40 by Stefan Karns @69.234.210.45 : Mohammed Cartoons
It is only a matter of time before Muslims take over European countries democratic establishments due to the rapidly growing population relative to the "indigent" Europeans. Take the blinders off your eyes and see the apolocyptic danger right before you. Mohammed preached Jihad to enforce the constant struggle against the "infidels". What is the answer? That is for the populace to decide. A truly frightening episode that should shake Europe and the rest of the world to its foundation. God help us all.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 03:09 by jan kramer @70.230.172.209 : Mohammed Cartoons
The freedom of expression cannot be stopped because of religious beliefs. Religion is not fact. It is a set of rules, guidelines, whatever you prefer to call it, by which people use to live their lives. The reason people suffer so much in the Middle East and other predominately Islamic Nations is because religion is the ruler, and not the people themselves. The World has not declared war on Islam. Rather it is the Islamic World and their view of "Holy War" that will ultimately lead to their own destruction.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 04:56 by Arkady @203.59.198.116 : Freedom
I'd like to draw a parrallel between the publication of cariacatures of Mohamed and the culture from whence they came. I'm not certain why *exactly portraying an image of Mohamed is considered to be so bad, however I will guess by agreeing with Ming and basing it on the idolatory principle.

In certain Aboriginal cultures here in Australia, it is considered disgraceful nay offensive to take a photograph of said person. It is believed that in doing so you will capture a part of that persons spirit, never to return.

However, in the interests of living in a free society, it is my understanding that if such a picture could be offensive to them, they simply look the other way and make a choice not to purchase the paper or article that contains the pictures. Note, we don't put disclaimers up, nor do we censor our press for that reason.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that you will never please everybody all of the time, however in a true democracy you do have the power to demonstrate your feelings, be it by voice, text, or simply by using your feet and exercising your right to walk away.

These pictures are neither offensive or racist, nor are they a targeted or systematic attack on the muslim community. If these pictures offend you, then please tune out (if on TV) or choose not to purchase the paper. You will then have exercised a more powerful democratic freedom than the random rhetoric so easily left.  



5 Feb 2006 @ 05:00 by victoria @203.167.15.117 : abolish intolerance
thank you for posting the cartoons. I found them on a French website and couldn't understand the captions. BTW, I just came out from a long retreat -- stayed away from TV, radio and papers. Hmmm, well the world is on fire or so it seems because of cartoons. I trust that one day people will see just how ridiculous this situation is and how pathetic people can get by being so violent about a difference in opinion and ideas.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 06:08 by Everyone get a grip @68.106.66.148 : Calm down!
These are cartoons. Laugh if you want. Ignore them if you want. But, for all our sakes, get a grip. Religious intolerance from whatever background (Muslim, Christian, etc.) is truly ridiculous. All the religions teach tolerance but their adherents seem to ignore this aspect of their belief systems. Hey, everyoe, turn the other cheek, and be kind to one another as your prophets have preached to you.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 07:33 by fieldmarshall @196.1.53.7 : moroccan
Unbeliavable that one has decided to lock himself in a cage and stay in morocco simply because he,ll be linked with terrorism. One can't go for further studies abroad simply bse he doesn't wanna leave the fellows muslims in morocco. With two legs, you'll set the pace!  


5 Feb 2006 @ 08:24 by yek_irani @87.247.162.4 : dahane hamatoono servis mikonam
bad bakhta ba in karetoon na tanha too in donya dahanetoon servis mishe
balke too oon donya ham servis mishin ridam dahane har chi USA va England ie
hamin ja ghasam mikhoram ta oonjaee ke dastam bar miad az irane azizam va har emamo payambari ke ghabool daram defa mikonam ashghala  



5 Feb 2006 @ 09:37 by nemue : Cause for cause sake
You have to question the maturity of people who whip themselves up over these cartoons. This is cause for cause sake. For gods sake GROW UP....  


5 Feb 2006 @ 10:30 by Mohammad Kanaan @212.77.203.246 : An opinion about the cartoons

Please read the first part of this article. It sheds some light as to why we Muslims don't feel that those provacative and racist cartoons are a laughing matter.

[link]

cheers  



5 Feb 2006 @ 10:41 by Melanie @82.112.142.248 : UK prospective
These demonstrations will end up doing nothing for Islam in England. The British National Party and similar parties will only gain more support in their wish in getting rid of such people. The placards displayed yesterday in London makes you wonder why we have allowed so many such people into this country. Religion has always been the creator of war and nowadays its only the Antheists that seem to be able to live in piece. This reaction to some cartoonist has been well and truely over the top, and will only damage peoples views of Islam even further.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 10:57 by jazzolog : Please Consider This Opinion As Well
Thank you Mohammad for introducing me to Aziz Duwaik and his view~~~

"We respect press freedom, but ridiculing and besmirching our religious symbols is not press freedom. There is a conspicuous malicious intent here, and people's right not to be insulted and offended overrides a Danish newspaper's right to insult the prophet of Islam. Besides, we are living in a global village now, and we should respect each other.

"And we value our religion and our prophet (peace be upon him). Press freedom is a great ideal. However, could one argue that Hitler and the Nazis were practising their freedom prior to the Holocaust? We know the Holocaust started with cartoons like this against Jews..."

Very good point. May I refer you as well, new friend, to a column in Friday's Spiegel? Its author is Ibn Warraq, who was educated in Koran schools in Pakistan and later in England. He currently lives in the United States and writes under a pen name traditionally used by dissidents in Islam. I think his article reveals an important difference in our cultures perhaps, a difference from which we both might learn and benefit. I realize his tone may be offensive, but his idea about "free expression" seems to be the major argument in this discussion~~~

"The cartoons in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten raise the most important question of our times: freedom of expression. Are we in the west going to cave into pressure from societies with a medieval mindset, or are we going to defend our most precious freedom -- freedom of expression, a freedom for which thousands of people sacrificed their lives?

"A democracy cannot survive long without freedom of expression, the freedom to argue, to dissent, even to insult and offend. It is a freedom sorely lacking in the Islamic world, and without it Islam will remain unassailed in its dogmatic, fanatical, medieval fortress; ossified, totalitarian and intolerant. Without this fundamental freedom, Islam will continue to stifle thought, human rights, individuality; originality and truth."

[link]  



5 Feb 2006 @ 11:11 by Jon @82.112.142.248 : Another UK look
I don't think no matter how offensive these cartoons have been that placards displayed in London with death threats is justifyable, especially when over 50 innocwnt people were only murdered last summer in the name of religion. The UK has always prided itself in allowing so many asylum seekers in. But this is becomining to look like a massive mistake. Most white UK people don't give a monkeys about Islam, and are weary of have listen to fanatics preaching hatred. Good point though on the cartoonists of the pre-holocaust era. Though yet again, we have an Iranain president that tells us all that the holocause never happened and that hitler was sent by God. Maybe it is a case that Isalm is no longer a straight forward religion but a radicle one. To the West, it certainly comes across as much more bad then good.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 11:32 by Anders @212.242.236.152 : Am I the only one?
I actually like Islam even though I'm christian. It has many of the same ideas and laws as Christianity about treating people with respect, trying to understand instead of hating, and being a positive role-model instead of keeping to yourself.

I just wonder why there's a whole bunch of self-proclaimed muslims out there who doesn't practice it. The smallest thing threatens them, and up comes the Kalashnikovs, the bombs and the promises to kill every man, woman, and child in a country they've never been to.

An Imam from Saudi-Arabia travelling around Europe said in a speech some years ago that these times where the biggest crisis of the Muslim faith ever, because Muslims had become victims of fear and forgotten their values. He also said that it was up to the Muslims in the west to open the dialogue..

..I wonder if that's what they thought they were doing when two of them knocked over my local hot-dog stand here in Copenhagen yesterday and beat the vendor with clubs for selling "unclean" meat?

(A few have mentioned how christian Denmark would react to a cartoon of Jesus with a swastika on him.. Jeez.. been there done that.. You could draw him with a swastika covered dildo up his ### and we would still just laugh it off and go to church smiling.)

(btw Ming the line-up shows, among other things, one of our most right-wing politicians dressed up as Mohammed.. Pretty funny piss on the right wing, if it wasn't because it apparently went completely above a billion Muslims head)  



5 Feb 2006 @ 11:44 by Mohammad Kanaan @212.77.203.246 : Unwise
> I don't think no matter how offensive these cartoons have been that placards displayed in London with death threats is justifyable.

Fully agree. They are not only Un-Islamic and pure criminal, they are stupid. They contribute to us Muslims losing another just argument because of stupidity.  



5 Feb 2006 @ 13:00 by STEVE @195.10.45.154 : moHAMmed
I'll be tolerant of islam when i see a church built in Mecca. Our tolerance is seen as a weakness by these madmen. Every mosque should be considered a trojan horse  


5 Feb 2006 @ 13:11 by بوعبدالله @213.189.73.111 : martin + rick
بالتاكيد الترجمه كانت بها اخطاء كثيره غيرت المعنى,,,,,,,, وهنا تقع المشكله ,كيف نتواصل اذا لااتعلم لغتكم وتتعلمون لغتى,,,, نحن فى العالم الاسلامى نحاول ان نتعلم لغتكم ونرسل ابنائنا ليتعلموا فى جامعاتكم ولكن من جانبكم هناك محاوله لرفض التواصل وهذه حقيقه,,, لكم ثقافتكم التى نحترمها ونقدرها ولكنكم بالتاكيد ترفضون ثقافتنا والشواهد كثيره ,,, هناك الكثير من شعوبكم من يعتقد بأن العرب شعوب لا تستحق الحياه,,, من اوصل الى هولاء هذه الفكره هل ولدواوهى معهم؟ بالتاكيد لا بل اكتسبوها من واقع حياتكم لماذا الاصرار ,, اما انكون مثلكم او تلغوننا ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟؟ كل ما اريد قوله يجب ان نفهم بأن الورود لها الوان كثيره وكلها جميله؟! نحن فى العالم العربى والسلامى بالتاكيد بحاجه الى تتطوير التعليم واشيا كثيره أخرى,,,,,,,,,, ولكن ولكن ولكن انتم فى الغرب بحاجه الى تغير نظرتكم الى جيرانكم العرب والمسلمين ,,,,,, اتمنى من كل قلبى عندما أزور أوربا أجد ارشادات للطرق أو فى الفنادق أو المستشفيات أوالاسواق مكتوبه فى اللغه العربيه,, هنا ٍأعلم بأنكم على الطريق الصح وهو تقبل الأخر,,,, اتمنى من كل قلبى ان نعود ألى أنسانيتنا جميعا و أن نعلم بأن ما يفرض بالقوه ليس ظمانا للامان بل القوه حسب التاريخ تنتقل بين الشعوب نعم من حقكم ومن حق كل انسان ان يقول ما يريد أو يرسم ما يريد ولكن القضيه اكبر من هذه الرسوم ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, منى لكم كل الحب  


5 Feb 2006 @ 13:24 by terry wasik @64.230.106.197 : violence in CARtoons
Hello EARTHLINGS, how are you today ?
Why is it so easy to have peeple react to drawings of other peeple that are so-called LEADERS ,when other peeple are starving and HOMELESS that need MORE HELP and SUPPORT ??!!
if this is a so-called INTELLIGENT SPECIE then why are not peeple of this PLANET HELPING each other FOOD and CLOTHING instead of burning homes and buildings ? is it easier to BUILD bombes and bullets then to ASSEMBLE GROUPES of MALES and / or FEMALES to BUILD a BETTER,SAFER PLANET ? is that not GOODWILL is supposed to be ??
BUTT of course,no one wants to WATCH peeple HELPING peeple...they wood rather watch peeple bombing and killing peeple and manufacturating more coffins...god bless this planet of beautiful creatures that evolution created !!
love from CORNWALL ,ONTARIO,CANADA.
BUCKLE UP ...drive safe / soyez prudent !
merci beaucoup,muchas gracias ,thank you very much Mr.Bill Gates for thee INFORMATION HIGHWAY !! (thee road ahead ...is for FREEDOM of SPEECH of thee SEXES...)
why is there always males carrying bombes and guns and shooting peeple...??
isnt the pope in CARtoons as well ?? and he is roomered to be GAY ( as he walks around carrying a NAKED guy !!)  



5 Feb 2006 @ 13:29 by king james @64.230.106.197 : i wanna be a ARTIST
i wanna be a ARTIST and to play in thee SUPER BOWL ...god bless america and all VIRGINS in IRAQ !!
i wanna have 40 wives and all thee VIAGRA that is EQUAL to BARRELS OF OIL !allah is great....butt WOMEN are GREATEST !!  



5 Feb 2006 @ 14:17 by God @82.123.19.124 : ALLAH IS THE DEVIL !
You muslim fools have been seduced by Satan !

Muhammed (piss be upon him) was a devil worshipper, a pedophile who stalked 6yo girls, a rapist and a murderer... he was also encouraging slavery and hatred of other races and religions, especially the Jews.
... and to top it all, this false prophet was also into scatology and possibly beastility.  



5 Feb 2006 @ 14:37 by Habib @211.30.219.100 : cartoons
The cartoons are an accurate reflection of the behaviour of muslims and the behaviour they (the cartoons) incited is also fairly typical of the aformentioned group. Muslims in the west must understand that they are not living in islamic states, which was their own decision. If they are not happy with freedom of expression then they should not have chosen to live in countries where freedom of expression is practiced. I am originally Middle Eastern and have some muslim friends who I hold in great regard.. I know that muslims do not respect other religions as much as they profess. I have heard muslims making fun of other religions. I do not take offence except when they then turn around and take offence if others dare to make fun of there religion... which it now appears (Judging from the behaviour of its followers) deserves a great deal of piss taken out of it.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 15:16 by Adrian @81.181.94.122 : europeans should be ashamed
I think that all europeans in which countries these cartoons appeared should be ashamed of yourselfs.You don't realise what you have done.You cannot make fun about something that's holy.If the arabs would have made such a cartoon of your God you would have destroyed all of them but you believe that is not the same with arabs.God forgive you sins and you should pray that this ends here, because we don't want to see people dead because of a stupid from Denmark that is responsable for these cartoons.
I'm not an arab, i'm an european but I respect the religious beliefs of others and I thnik you should do that to.  



5 Feb 2006 @ 15:38 by Drew @24.50.36.55 : Accountability
I think many of us are overlooking a very simple fact. The Muslim world has allowed there religion to be completely hijacked by terrorists - either through complicity or inaction. The world is slowly beginning to be unable to separate terror from Islam. How many people viewed the whole German population as responsible for the attrocities carried out by the Nazis during WW2? Without a large and obvious attempt by the Germans who did not sympathize with Hitler and his henchmen to directly confront his policies they became, by way of inaction, commplicite with the future attrocities carried out under his regime. So to does the Muslim world then become responsible for the actions carried out in their name when they are not emphatically rebuked by the Muslim world. We are lossing the will in the West to appreciate and respect the Islamic world, for it is becomming very clear they care so little for us. Sure the Muslims of the world are outraged, they have every right to be, but I belive it is time for some reflection on their part. What does it mean to be outraged about the dipictions of Mohammed in European news papers when you were already calling for the blood of the Europeans from the relative safety of Paris, London, Madrid, etc.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 16:07 by Al @62.252.128.16 : cartoons
We all have to realise that the reaction to these cartoons is symptom of what is happening in the world today,and that if we are all not very careful,the way the fututer is heading.The question I pose is this:-How do we want to live in the future?Is it under a system of capitalist tolerance to all ways of life whether it is christian,agnostic,atheistic ,muslim or jewish etc and where in the past people who hold or live within this system have fought against those who have sought to persecute those from a different race or belief.Or is it one where the extremes of islamic belief want a return to an interpretation of the prophet that would return their region to the 7th century and all the good living that was to be had at that time,E.g. under the taliban where sikhs were made to wear yellow stars,where in Saudi arabia people are prosecuted for practising their alternative religion.Where in the same country non- beleavers are still not allowed into the holy city of Mecca,and where women are essentailly covered up because the immaturity and jealousy's of the men in certain countries can't abide another man looking at 'their' woman.
Well I know what my choice is,and I know the 'west'is'nt perfect with it's extremes of porn,decadence,debauchery and the like,but hey having a beer,looking at the beautiful people around me and being able to say what I like within the boundaries of consenting and mature adults is the place I want to live in.It's a cartoon man chill out.
Respect is about acceptance of others even with their faults,and with acceptance come's love  



5 Feb 2006 @ 16:09 by aaa zz @81.10.76.126 : stop it plzz
i am egyptian and muslim i never heared any muslim talking in a bad way about jesus or any other prophet why cant you just let us leave in peace these cartoons are discusting ,what would you feel if we said things like this about jesus(by the way we cant because he is one of god`s prophets who we love )just stop it and apologise for god sake  


5 Feb 2006 @ 16:37 by Fathead @203.59.83.165 : Walks Like a Duck
What we're seeing here is the manifestation of rule by terror. Now they want respect. For what, exactly? Sunni vs Shiite? The Taliban? Saddam Hussein? Iran? Irag? Saudi Arabia? Palestine? Syria? Egypt? I'm sure there are plenty more shining examples of what Islam can do for the rest of the world.

A few cartoons is nothing. Just so long its on the record that any attempt to push the west into Islam is going to be met with severe resistance. By that time the arab states will have effectively alienated the entire population of the west...

Still if there ever was global war and there were only two factions left, the Scientologists and the Mohammedans, the Scientologists would win because of their innate ability to subvert justice, lie and generally stack the deck.  



5 Feb 2006 @ 16:47 by vibrani : What would be better of 2 evils?
You might be right about that, and that doesn't make me feel any better.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 16:49 by billy hell @69.162.177.236 : so.
if something offends someone, why is the reaction is violence? how is that even reasonable? are people really that screwed up in their heads? That goes for America's christian facist zombie brigade and all the psycho bomb laced terrorists as well. Violence never solves anything in the long term, it just builds up until all hell breaks loose and nothing is controlable -- like whats happening now.

We've already fucked ourselves in the ass as a World population, no one knows how to get along and they've stopped trying. We just hit and shoot and yell at each other, fuck, we can't even get along in our own damn countries. All this fucking ego bullshit. ALL of you asshole dipshit selfabsorbed fucks need to have some humility and swallow your goddamn pride.

Screw anything that promotes violence. Quasi-Christians and Quasi-Muslims alike. Your religions are not about killing the others. Fucking fake ass people. Wake up and realize your true humanity and not this extremism propaganda.

MAY GOD/BUDDHA/ALA/WHOEVER SAVE US ALL!  



5 Feb 2006 @ 17:02 by vibrani : A Catholic priest
was murdered over this, in Turkey. Danish Consulate in Lebanon is on fire. Muslims are calling to cut up Danish people. A bomb goes off on a Pakistani bus killing many people. Don't Muslims have anything better to do?

What is very weird is that there were many churches set on fire in
the U.S.

I think it's showing or taking a hell of a lot of restraint on the western world's part not to blow Muslims to kingdom come. Under these circumstances, maybe restraint might not be the best way to go? Muslims feel pretty confident the west won't do much to put an end to their violent behavior and attempts to push everything further along the brink of planetary destruction. Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Hamas. Maybe the west is just hoping this will go away?!

Muslims - we have seen plenty of nasty depictions of non-Muslims in your own newspapers, plus the constant encouragement to murder non-Muslims, so don't cry about a few silly cartoons in a Danish paper.  



5 Feb 2006 @ 19:27 by Mohammed @213.217.37.184 : Just a Comment
Though you hate us,we all love you and your prophet,Jesus,son of God.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 19:53 by Larry @134.78.110.18 : Islam Vs. Reason
Islam is a dangerous neurosis. Probably more dangerous than the Christians psychosis of the fourteenth century.

I'm in agreement that that Western world is showing amazing restraint in not launching a full scale attack on the Islamic States, and their "excuses" to kill in the name of their mythology.

Everything in moderation. Since Islam is exactly the opposite of a "moderate" belief system, it is probably the most serious threat to world peace.

Good people use religion in moderation to try and lead a better life and teach good morals. No matter what the religion, it fills a void for some people. When a religion ceases to be completely peaceful and completely tolerant of everyone, regardless of belief or non-belief, it ceases to be a religion, and becomes a fanatical fundamentalists excuse to promote and take part in violence against other human beings.

When beliefs get to this point, it is civilized societies RESPONSIBILITY to every living creature on this earth to stop it dead in it's tracks. To allow it to continue is to turn a blind eye horrific crimes against humanity.

When that "belief" extends beyond helping others and leading a moderate life, it is nothing more than a dangerous psychosis that has no place in civilized society.  



5 Feb 2006 @ 20:06 by peace2live @82.76.249.47 : "Love each other as I loved you!"
All you talked about the whole stuff is wrong. The only idea that matters is that: we can leave peacefully in harmony on this earth. it's not usefull the bloodshed to pursued the other one you're right and his wrong.

But, in this issue we have 2 religions and 2 figures:
1. Jesus, the God and the Word of God, Who sacrified Himself for the World.
2. Mohammed, the last biggest Prophet of the World, who was talked with
Gavriil archangel.

Both of them promoted peace, love and tolerance between human beings.
Without it, in this world, there's no peace, no love, no joy of life, no freedom.

The crime against brother is continuing for 7.000 years!

So, respect each other, tolerate each other and love each other.
STOP! BEFORE IS TOO LATE! Let's don't kill brothers, no matter belief, religion, colour, race. (Abel; Bible, Creation book)  



5 Feb 2006 @ 20:08 by vibrani : Mohammed
we're not all into some religion! Jesus isn't my prophet or God. If you love us, show it...tell your people to show it, eh?

Larry, that was well stated.

Seems the Danish newspaper apologized - caved in - and that still doesn't stop the Muslims from rioting.  



5 Feb 2006 @ 20:09 by test @62.219.238.63 : track
tracking  


5 Feb 2006 @ 20:29 by Karlos @81.231.245.134 : Well
The riots isn´t about the cartoons anymore. People with power are using it as excuse. Freedom of speech wouldn´t be bad in the arab countries...  


5 Feb 2006 @ 21:09 by Michael @203.206.40.179 : Muslim divide
Hi, I just happened accross this blog from a google search. It seems to me that all the problems 'muslims' are presently haveing seem to be linked to the two differing classes of muslims. The peace loving (as I know them) and the fanatic few... Maybe what is needed to restore the good name of muslims is that the peace loving muslims openly reject those that incite violence? or is there a religious reason this is not possible?  


5 Feb 2006 @ 21:23 by Michael @203.206.40.179 : see above
I mean... Muslims seem to be seperated into two groups those that say they wish for peace and then the ones you see on TV committing acts of violence. I know that muslims have been 'misstreated' by white man for hundreds of years and generally persecuted by christianity but when is it all going to stop? Someone has to get off their high horse and offer the other party forgiveness. Isnt that what religion is all about? As long as the violent muslims are sheltered within your general religion this can never end. The only way to end this would be for 'peace loving' muslims to cast out and exile (at the very least) any muslim who would incite violence. Christians (the white world) do the same to murderers etc by sending them to jail.  


5 Feb 2006 @ 22:30 by Denmark @86.52.105.106 : Islam/Muslims
The whole story about the famous drawings have been debated in Denmark for several months in a civilized manner, when suddenly, after four months, some Muslims residing in Denmark decide that they want some more out of the story, travel to the Middle East to spread lies about Denmark to stir up people.

Apart from boycott of Danish goods, we now have threats of violence from Muslims. Some Muslims seem to have only one answer to any dispute: kill, kill, kill.

When the Prophet is depicted with a bomb, it is to illustrate the daily terror from Muslims killing people in the name of the Prophet, cutting the throat in the name of the Prophet and blasting bombs in the name of the Prophet. In my way of thinking it is these acts, in the name of the Prophet, that are really blasphemous, but apparently Muslims think differently, since they do nothing about it.

Although Muslims always think of themselves as victims, I can inform you that they are not considered so in the West, where most people, when hearing about Islam or Muslims think about terror, and who is to blame?  



5 Feb 2006 @ 23:49 by tony blair @83.67.11.89 : my view
Religion is soooooooo last millenium!!!!!  


6 Feb 2006 @ 00:46 by Al @62.252.128.16 : response to michael
The middle-east has not been mistreated by the west for hundreds of years unless you go back as far as the crusades,which in that case you will be right.However the period up to the battle of Lepanto in the 16th century saw the peak of muslim power in the world come to an end and the worries of central and eastern europeans of a muslim invasion subside.Luckily the Venetians put an end to that and since then the muslim world has fell into a dark age where it's rulers have subjegated it's people for generally their own gain.Losing it's prominance in all spheres of life from mathamatics and astrology and it's failure to jump into the industrial revolution,the middle-east has tore it's self apart,with a little help from colonial powers fighting over the scraps of the Ottaman empire.Muslims have to find a place for themselves as equals in this modern world and until they cease to stop thinking of themselves as victims they wont achieve this.Oil being found there in the last century has'nt helped but remember the kingdom of saud,egypt,syria and the like are just as much to blame as the west for this rush for the black stuff.It's all about power,whether your Bush,Mubarak or Assad.The people of the region have suffered but not just by the west's hands.They should look to themselves and as I'm sure the majority of muslims realize,the last thing they need is an Islamic caliphate based on a strict interpretation of the Koran.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 00:55 by Al @62.252.128.16 : p.s
Danish feta is'nt that great any way so it wont be that big a loss.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 01:12 by dk @86.52.105.106 : A good comment from the net
A Shit-Hole Full of Fools
Sometimes I wonder what have those thousands of years and hundreds of civilizations that passed through our region done to us? What have they offered? An accumulation of hatred, problems, disappointments, self-doubt, and wars.
Ever since we were small kids we were taught to brag about our past, the historic richness of our homeland. It was always implied to us that it is something to be proud of, but at times I start thinking that it is merely an act of stupidity.
For people like us, so rooted in their past and surrounded by all this history of conflicts, isn't it harder to start from scratch? At some point in time, that is what a civilization needs, starting from scratch. Putting all the past behind its back and moving on. Ataturk forced the Ottoman's to do so, the French revolution was successful in doing so, the Maoists of China attemted for a decade, and succeeded in seperating the past from their nation's future. The United States of America was built in a whole new continent... regardless of how successful those attempts and movements were, regardless of the names they hold, they made a difference.
We have been living in the shit-hole, this middle-east for centuries, going in circles, stuck to our past, not just stuck, but longing to go back to the old days, fighting our ancestors' battles and losing their wars over and over again.
I am desperate, I feel as if everyone I know is a fool who just does not grasp what we are going through, just endorsing hatred as an ideology and giving it names to avoid the guilt.
If only my people would educate themselves a bit, and try to understand the world, before asking the world to understand their complexes and insecurity.
What is this post all about?
Disappointment and despair.

A Muslim  



6 Feb 2006 @ 01:15 by vibrani : Thanks dk
for sharing your feelings. I think you make some important points.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 01:43 by Michael @203.206.40.179 : misstreatment (+ thanks dk)
I am going back as far as the crusades because that is as far back as their feelings of resentment go. We should start with the crusades (which were just a religious excuse for europeans to steal from Arabs) as these were the startings of much of the hatred today. However since that time we havnt exactly given them a reason to like us. The middle east has always been a very violent place and our meddling in their affairs would have done nothing but incense their hatred for us. How can we expect them to like us if we give them excuse after excuse to hate christian countries (america in particular)? You think that the creation of Israel and Kuwait (america meddling in middle east politics) and more recently Iraq (America backing, training, and outfitting Saddam in the 80's and then attacking the country when saddam didnt jump rope) are going to have no effect? Why do you think that the Iraqis want the americans out asap? Cause America is the only authority they hated more than saddam from the start. Of course the feelings of the local people will spread throughout the middle east so that more nations than just the iraqis will be affected. And dont quote 9/11 to me as a reason to invade iraq everyone knows that was a crock of sh!t. So whats going to happen now??? we attacked them (muslims... they like to generalize and say an attack on any one of them is an attack on all of them) again and now they will attack us again??? when is it going to end? America has already alienated Palestinians, Iraqi's (twice), Afgans, almost all communist/socialist countries, Africans (who starved at americas hand to repay international debt) and more I cant think of atm. Isnt it time America stopped being an agressor and started trying to actually spread the 'peace' message instead of trying to force peace with violence?  


6 Feb 2006 @ 01:58 by Michael @203.206.40.179 : my point
My point is... if you are trying to resolve difficulties with someone be it a person, nation, or religion you need to show that you are willing to compromise and accept them. If, on the other hand, every time they see you they get slapped for doing something you dont want them too they are unlikely to become your friend.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 02:33 by jock @80.176.140.38 : infidel jokes
The majority of people who are strongly supportive of the right to publish these cartoons are I believe not christians but secular citizens of democratic countries which mostly have christian traditions and history. The vast majority of those who are against the right to publish these cartoons are people who would describe themselves as muslims who either live in states which are muslim theocracies, sultanic dictatorships or those struggling for deserved independance viz. Palestine and Iraq. Because there is little or no free media in most of these countries the proletariat (not used as an insult) and it would appear many of the 'educated' elite tend to think of the citizens of Europe as christians and therefore when an insult is made on the islamic faith it is a crusade against muslims. The truth is the crusade is against bigotry, hypocrisy and grovelling genuflection (insult intended)from christians, jews, hindus, seikhs, muslims, scientologists, book burners and reactionary war mongers from rich and poor countries.
You will not find cartoonists and satirists burning, bombing or trying to ban those of you who have your faiths, but those who seek to destroy the right of others to think and express ideas deserve to be lampooned whatever their 'sacred idols' are. Perhaps those who are offended could take up the pen and show us their thoughts without invoking murderous deeds.  



6 Feb 2006 @ 03:28 by A Prophet @60.230.97.6 : You tell 'em TB
Following on from Tony Blair's comment, when are we going to grow up and let go of this security blanket called religion?

It's served it's purpose - we all know how to behave as moral, civilised creatures. That many choose not to is a different problem, which I believe is caused largely by our refusal to treat each other as equals.  



6 Feb 2006 @ 04:23 by dea @61.5.104.147 : comedy cause a tragedy
as a human being, there is a freedom. but what is the limitation of freedom?, it called "responsible" , to be responsible you need sensitivity and also empathy and a "brain" to think about the result from every action you take, that makes us different from animal and other creatures.
no matter what is your religion, your faith or what you believe, just thing simple, and use empathy. freedom without limitation is a selfish and egoist more worse than those who fanatic or those who fanatic phobia.
...and one more thing
"dont starting a joke when the world is crying"  



6 Feb 2006 @ 05:06 by ashanti : Cartoons banned in South Africa
An update from South Africa: the cartoons have been banned from being published in South African newspapers. Reported on here.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 05:37 by Mohammad Kanaan @212.77.203.246 : Forgivness

Mickael Thank you for making sense. Actually the west has not given us Muslims a chance to forget. You mention the cursades. The crusades were 13 different war campaigns over a period of 200 years that were send to our region to do nothing but killing of Non-Christians. After that there was the inspection courts of spain when more than 1 million Muslims massacred just because they were Muslims. Then came the Napoleon Bunapert era who went through the region and have done nothing but killing and exploitation. Few years later, we have seen the western emperialists where all of our countries and much of the world was invaded by the civilized Europeans. The only goal was to steel natural resources. Then comes the creation of Israel and the theft of Arab land. Palestinians were made into refugees and people from more than 90 different countries were brought in to take their place just because they belong to a certain religion. Last but not least, comes the Iraqi invation by the US and Britain. This war was based on a lie and contiues shamelessly without UN authorization and with a lot of popular resistance from the people of Iraq.

Our religion as Muslims teaches us to forgive. Most of us are able to do that but a few of us are not. The hate I have seen coming out of people in this forum and others proves that Christians as well are not able to forget or forgive. May God help us all forgive and love each other.

A Muslim.  



6 Feb 2006 @ 05:37 by Bob Crown @213.217.43.46 : Insulting Cartoons
Hi every body!
I read all the comments and I think there is a big mistake here. I was born in a muslim country and I am living there for 28. I have seen many muslim people from all around the world and I have spoken to them and with all my experience I can tell you that "YOU CANT FIND TWO MUSLIMS THAT HAVE THE IDENTICAL INTERPRETATION OF ISLAM" becouse this islam that you can see is just a vision and a picture of islam and to help you to see the real face of islam I tell you the only source of real islam is a book named KOR'AN. and I assure you that you can find nothing about TERRORISM or BOMBING in it!
I hereby accentuate that all that you can see in the name of islam is just a usage of ISLAM in favour of governments and it has no relation with real islam becouse MOHAMMAD that you are fooling him, says: "RELIGION SAYS WHAT WISDOM SAYS AND WISDOM SAYS WHAT RELIGION SAYS (it means listen to your wisdom)" and also he says: "I AM EXTERNAL PROPHET AND YOU HAVE AN INTERNAL PROPHET (WISDOM), LISTEN TO IT!"
Should help you to understand the matter.
REGARDS  



6 Feb 2006 @ 06:28 by lantip @202.162.34.5 : ...
Hi! I usually dont really care about what others did to my faith, but somehow, this time it's hurt me. Well, i hope you understand (yes, you means everyone), i have this faith since i was young (i am a moslem), and it is not a simple thing to moveaway from one faith to another. so, my point is, the picture is hurting my feeling. I'm not supporting any moslem who did some mean things, and i dont care about right or wrong, i'm simply imagining a peacefull world. And I understand, to build a peacefull world doesnt mean to force to make one faith for everybody.

so, that's it, i just wanna say that this is not funny anymore, this cartoon is hurting ones feeling (at least mine). is it not enough to be a reason for other people to do the more wise things?

ps. sorry for my bad english.  



6 Feb 2006 @ 06:41 by Non-Muslim Asian @202.58.253.180 : Sort of Related Commentary
this commentary has a point:
[link]  



6 Feb 2006 @ 07:19 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : Neo-Cons responsible?
Read a thread at this link:
[link]
I copied and pasted the messages by the originator of the thread below:

This was a setup from the beginning. The cue for the violent actions spearheaded by Saudi Arabia (financial backing by powerful families in Saudi Arbia cannot happen without the blessing of the Saudi Royal family), started after Clinton made the comment last week "the drawings were despicable and terrible". He said nothing about the death threats issued by Islamist fundamentalists. He also tried to present Europe as an anti-semitic place where racism is rampant.

It is not a coincidence that Clinton deliberately added fuel to the fire by giving the violent fundamentalists under the cue of Middle Eastern dictatorships legitimacy to their behavior.

Clinton is a neocon and the US and Saudi Arabian governments are very close allies and together control and operate the fantasy al-qaida. They are using the notion of global fundamentalist terror as a tool to secure their interests in the region (read: throw Europe out of the Middle East) and in the world.

Clinton as ex-president has been hired in by the Bush administration to represent the US government and soften its image. Clinton only comments world affairs after careful briefings and couching by the State department and the advisors appointed to him.

The Danish organization, islamisk trossamfund, travelled around in december with 3 fake images with disgusting content claiming they were part of the 12 images in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten.
[link]


At the time Clinton made his comments, 4 months had passed since the printing of the 12 drawings in Jyllands-Posten (September 30, 2005). The US State department was by then well informed on these drawings as well as the existence of the three fake images through their Saudi connections.


So when Clinton made his comments "the drawings were despicable and terrible", he was really commenting on the 3 fake images which many in the uninformed masses thought were the 12 drawings in Jyllands-Posten. Clinton knew better and, yet did not make a distinction between the real and fake images, and did not condemn the threats of violence and death threats against Europeans. With all the careful analysis US government gives to every comment it makes, Clinton and the US government KNEW his comments gave legitimacy to the violent campaign against European interests.

Had Bush made these comments, it would have been seen much more clearly as a provocation and an attempt to hurt European interests in the Middle East. Hence, Clinton got that job.

It also seems suspicious that, on February 1, BBC World aired a story showing one of the three fake images, and incorrectly claimed that it had been published in Jyllands-Posten. What happened to checking the sources? It is not like the 12 cartoons were difficult to find on the Internet in one giant jpg picture or separately? It smells of collusion between Blair and Bush.

The Bush administration has seized the opportunity, much like they used 9.11 to push through their radical military and economic agenda. Much of the foundation and planning had already taken place during the Clinton administration.

Yes, I am suggesting they seized on the confusion and misconception caused by the 3 fake images in coordination with their Saudi counterparts.


The attacks on the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus were carried out by the authorities of Syria. The authorities have total control and nothing takes place in Damascus without their blessing, certainly not a demonstration. Syrian authorities are under pressure and will do anything to deflect attention from themselves, both to appease internal and external enemies.

As far as government control, this so-called spontaneous demonstration resembles the one that took place in Beijing 1999, when the mob "spontaneously" stoned the US embassy after U.S. planes mistakenly bombed China's embassy in Yugoslavia.

Some very disturbing people are playing a chess game using the world stage as the chessboard and billions of people as sacrificial pawns.  



6 Feb 2006 @ 07:58 by ef @85.176.91.94 : Mohammed Cartoons
Hi, everybody. I'd like to respond to lantip and let him know: most europeans agree that publishing the cartoons (when they were first published) was insensitive and unwise. So for months there was little reaction to the trouble that was brewing; it was seen as a danish affair. But when danish journalists received death threats and muslim ambassadors were recalled to their countries the pattern changed. It's one thing to ask that a paper apologizes for having crossed a line, it's quite another to do this at sword's point, so to speak. Religious satire is legal within our countries. Demanding to punish the journalists meant outlawing them for something, that - however insensitive - was within their legal right to do, and more - it questioned this very right to unhindered expression.

Yes, I know that freedom's never absolute, and each and every country has its own (silent) regulations as to what is considered tolerable or not. And yet, the right itself to express yourself freely is never questioned in our countries, is indeed one of the pillars democracy rests on.

The french interior minister said that, however uncomfortable he felt with the whole situation, he'd prefer an 'excess of caricature to an excess of censure'. I choose to agree.

Reprinting the cartoons throughout europe hasn't had anything to do with your prophet anymore, lantip. It concerns Islam only insofar, as the death threats come from muslims. Really, at this point, what counted was the solidarity shown.

Hope that helps a bit.  



6 Feb 2006 @ 08:07 by Rabbit @58.164.35.77 : You're kidding right?
Anonymous - you seriously need some help.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 09:46 by Hanan Taha @196.202.85.6 : we are really sorry
Danes,
This is an Egyptian muslim girl " Hanan".
I know that the situation has become out of control by burning embassies and blowing things up.
We apologize for that and I agree that these action have done nothing but to weaken our - muslims- sitatuion,however, those action have been taken by some people who aren't really presenting all the muslims.
Those people - whom u call terrorists- doing violent actions all around do not nessecarily mean that the other 5 billion muslims are like them.
I feel sorry for what happened for you embassies...really sorry....
maybe the boycott was a better way to express objection , but I didn't think that the situation may turn out to be that ugly.
anyway, afew people in afew muslims countries who has done these actions and the rest are really innocent , including my country,so please don't generalize.
and thanks ( Jylland Posten) for the second apology.I think now that everything has been cleared and everything has to be returned to normal,right?

IslamisDying> Please try to discuss these sensitive issues in a more civilized way even if you can't live with the fact that you are an Arab.You make your point of view really weak  



6 Feb 2006 @ 09:56 by Hanan Taha @196.202.85.6 : Note
please remember that the angry actions are based upon a huge background of mistreatment and racism against muslims since 11 september and not for only the cartoons themselves.
so you can say that the cartoons are the conclusion of this series to these angry muslims.  



6 Feb 2006 @ 10:05 by Nana Ansa Konduah @80.87.70.4 : It's Enough
I blame the western world. This nonsense religion called islam is getting on our nerves. Free speech is a right and must be expressed without fear. The western world has kept quiet for far too long about these thugs(moslems).
It pains me as an African to be thought of as a threat to the white man, whiles these fools are rather regarded as friends. Time has thought us otherwise.
Enough is enough  



6 Feb 2006 @ 11:00 by Antron @72.136.98.212 : I don't like arabs.
Hi. I don't like arabs anymore.

In Australia, Norway, Sweden and other Western nations, there is a distinct race-based crime in motion being ignored by the diversity police: Islamic men are raping Western women for ethnic reasons. We know this because the rapists have openly declared their sectarian motivations.

When a number of teenage Australian girls were subjected to hours of sexual degradation during a spate of gang rapes in Sydney that occurred between 1998 and 2002, the perpetrators of these assaults framed their rationale in ethnic terms. The young victims were informed that they were "sluts" and "Aussie pigs" while they were being hunted down and abused.

In Australia's New South Wales Supreme Court in December 2005, a visiting Pakistani rapist testified that his victims had no right to say no, because they were not wearing a headscarf.

And earlier this year Australians were outraged when Lebanese Sheik Faiz Mohammed gave a lecture in Sydney where he informed his audience that rape victims had no one to blame but themselves. Women, he said, who wore skimpy clothing, invited men to rape them.

A few months earlier, in Copenhagen, Islamic mufti and scholar, Shahid Mehdi created uproar when ­ like his peer in Australia ­ he stated that women who did not wear a headscarf were asking to be raped.  



6 Feb 2006 @ 11:58 by TrueChristian @63.235.224.10 : religion and violence
Johnathan Swift said it best:"We have enough religion to make us hate one another, but not enough to make us love one another". I don't hate anyone for their beliefs. What I DO hate is when they act on those beliefs in a way that is harmful to others. All religions seem to have, at various times, radical factions whose primary belief is that everyone who won't convert to their point of view must die or be enslaved. Christians, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, ALL have been guilty of this. Cases in point: the Crusades (where anyone who was not of the Roman Catholic church - or even those who were, but were seen as weak or who could be taken advantage of in the name of political maneuvering - were slaughtered); the Spanish Inqisition; Mary Stuart's persecution of Protestant "heretics"; the Thirty Year's War, where Catholics and Protestants burned each other's churches (and the reason why my family tree can't be traced back before the late 17th century - the churches, being the repository of records, were burned); Elizabeth I of England trying to purge her country of "Papists"; Puritans persecuting anyone who wasn't a Puritan (culminating in the Salem "witch trials"); Christian, Muslim, and Jewish "fundamentalists" attacking everyone else in the name of "truth"; the current "jihad" and the Palestinian "infatada"; Atheists attacking (verbally, judicially, and legislatively,if not physically) EVERYONE who expresses a belief in God; Christians, Muslims, and Hindus attacking each other in India...need I go on? I am a Christian. According to my beliefs, those who do not accept Christ as the Son of God and Savior of mankind from sin will eventually be damned for eternity. Not my judgement, but God's. I certainly abhor "Christian" extremists (and I hesitate to sully the word "Christian" applying it to them)advocating violence against non-Christians. It is for God, and God alone, to pass judgement on mankind and to act upon that judgement. "Vengeance is mine, says the Lord: I will repay". Note that it does NOT say "I will send others to do my work for me", in this instance. He is perfectly capable of acting when and how He chooses. At NO point did Christ advocate violence against unbelievers on the part of those who would follow him. In fact, He only performed one violent act Himself, in driving the moneychangers from the temple, for by their actions they were defiling it. The word, "Christian", literally means "Christ-like", and we should all strive to follow His example of kindness towards others, whether we are Christians or not.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 12:03 by scotty : BE FREE


To offend is no more virtuous than being too willing to take offense!!


BE FREE !




If you are quick to take offense, then you’ll be under the control of those who you find offensive.


If you are easily angered, then your actions will be dictated by those who anger you.


If you are obsessed by what other people think, then you’ll be imprisoned by their thoughts.


If you yearn for easy answers and quick solutions, you’ll fall prey to people who offer you nothing but promises.


If you find the truth too difficult to bear, you’ll be enslaved to those who tell you what you want to hear.





When you have the courage to think for yourself, the stregnth to accept what is, the commitment and discipline to make a difference, Then you are Free.





You are truly free to live with purpose, joy and fulfillment.





Let your life be defined, not by reactions to what others do, say, or think but rather your own unique vision.





Raise your eyes above the pettiness and follow the path of the greatness that is within you.





~ Athor unknown.


 



6 Feb 2006 @ 12:40 by atheist @84.254.0.148 : mohamed cartoons
Let us stop the hypocrysy.It is all about few in power dangeourously manipulating poor analphabet people,but the worst of it we see no where moderate muslims doing or saying anything except one that is in Paris.
All major wars and conflicts around the world take place mainly due to differences in religion and fanatism.It is time we think seriously in atheism and put religion only as a tradition or folkloric activity we practise when and if we have time.  



6 Feb 2006 @ 13:13 by Pancho VIllla @64.46.176.34 : BOLA DE MONTONEROS
JUST SHUT UP!!!
I'M SICK AND TIRED OF THE MUSLIM WORLD!!!
GO BACK TO YOUR COUNTRIES AND STAY THERE!!
GOD BLESS THE USA AND ISRAEL!!! VIVA MEXICO, BOLA DE MONTONEROS!!!  



6 Feb 2006 @ 13:16 by A Dane @86.52.105.106 : Dear Muslims
Dear Muslims

Sorry, sorry
Sorry for giving you shelter and help
Sorry for giving you an education
Sorry for helping you financially
Sorry for allowing you to freely follow your faith in our Christian land
Sorry for sending aid to your countries
Sorry for not demanding blood revenge for the murders on our fellow countrymen, committed by muslims
Sorry for not running around with explosives on our bodies, when we feel offended( by you muslims )
Sorry for us not simply doing like your faith demands
But an excuse for uttering an opinion in our own country within our own laws - that you will never get !
--
If you do not like my country, please leave.
If you do not like the way our women dress, please leave.
If you do not like our separation of politics and religion, please leave.
If you support violent responses to criticism of Islam, please leave.
If you support terrorism in any way, shape or form, please leave.
If you cannot accept satirical cartoons in our newspapers, please leave.
If you do not support democracy or the freedom of speech, please leave my country.

A Dane  



6 Feb 2006 @ 13:19 by reha @81.214.130.185 : who is behind so called islamic terror
1 ) It seems that a lot of people in the western world thinks that all the muslims are terrorists after sep 11th WHICH WAS TOTALLY ORGANIZED by America using their subcontractors just as they did when Saddam invaded Kuwait.( I have seen bidding files for the reconstruction of the buildings to be destroyed in the war which were dated 4 months before the invasion )Can you really believe that just a few people with beards and no brains can rule the whole world and terrorise any part of the world as they wish and can never be captured and continue their actions forever. To better understand who and what is behind it you should analyse who makes the maximum benefit of it. Definetly not muslims !!!!!!
2) Another wrong opinion in the west is that they think all the muslims are with turban and long beards whereas their percentage are so low. Less than 1 % in Turkey where I live. I have also been in Iran and Emirates and have seen really very few people who look like all those pictures and cartoons.
3) A very big portion of the muslims are already very mild and not applying some of those tough rules which are out of date. It is only the fundamentalists who are so intolerant against everything just like fundamentalist jewish and christians. On the other hand look again who makes the most benefit out of these fundamental people who are not given the chance to be educated and left in the prehistoric ages !! ( It is a lot easier to direct and control uneducated people )  



6 Feb 2006 @ 14:31 by vibrani : MUSLIM HYPOCRITES
See what the Muslims put out in their cartoons on a daily basis here [link], it's ok for them to insult non-Muslims but not okay for the Danish cartoons? Why no world outcry against these? Why no apologies from the Musim/Arab world? Include the Pope the hypocrite group. And what is a resolution to this here[link]  


6 Feb 2006 @ 15:02 by Al @62.252.128.16 : and so on
Stop using the past as an excuse and begin with a new slate.Forget about conspiricies ,there is just hypocrisy and self-interest from all sides,but saying that a movement started in india in 1947 called Diobandism in which the taliban largley originate their ideas from.Anti-western and anti-american in form it has no interest in peace with the 'infidal' but only in the creation of a world muslim caliphate.That is a movement that every sinew in my body would fight against.I feel sorry for moderate muslims at this time it cannot be easy.I would like to live in peace with people from all creeds but do not force me to
live and be influenced by a creed that was made up for a region that was lacking any uniform religion of it's own until mohammed came along and gave his interpretation of the judo-christian faith to his people.
It is intresting to note that when the prophet entered Mecca ,the Kabaah was a shrine to many different religions and idols ,which he immediately tore down.Except one,apparently an image of Mary with jesus.
I dont want to disrespect anyone but I am as a human being entitled to my opinion opinion.Muslims forget about america,look to the future ,america will one day be playin second fiddle to the chinese,and so far I dont like the look of their human rights record.Lastly can I just say that the judo-christian muslim faiths are a crock of shit and are stories to control children who have no mind of their own,and that if I am wrong and go to hell for my blasphemy, and sit before god in judgement, may I have the courage to say that he is an evil God.I have talked to many muslims and christians of strong faith and may I say they are all of their heads living in dreamnd.Sorry if that offends but hey ,I live in a land with free speech,thank God!  



6 Feb 2006 @ 15:12 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : European companies kicked out of Iraq
Rabbit, no I am not kidding. Who stands to gain from this? Norwegian and Danish companies are having their contracts terminated in Iraq and being kicked out by the government of Iraq. Who do you think is getting these contracts? American companies are handed those contracts.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 15:18 by vibrani : *
Oh well.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 15:21 by no name @85.98.133.230 : christianity
all you christians know that your days of christianity are slowly coming to an end. You are extremely afraid of this and are searching for ways out.Your Christian Missionaries all around the world unfortunately didnt work.because our religion is so great and so innocent that only a person without a mind or brain would change it. AS to the cartoons : who are the characters there ? I really didnt understand.....Dear Christians, try and try .Maybe one day -your last day you will be in peace.And lastly all of you know that İslam is the best , only you cant say it because you are afraid.WE LOVE all of you bec. we are human.....................  


6 Feb 2006 @ 15:24 by Mansoor @64.190.19.74 : tired muslim
As a muslim, the the holy war some extremists declared on the Western world worries me. I was not offended by the cartoons. Yes, I did see them. I was saddened and then concerned by the response they got. We should have been the "better man" and ignore them. There are much more important things to "fight" about than this. And lets be smart on how we do things. Why use terrorism? Why not use economic sanctions on our oil and force countries like the US to help us with the Palestine issue for instance. No, we don't do that because our leaders care a lot about the money too. Before pointing our fingers to non-muslims lets start by cleaning up house and stop terrorism in name of Islam. I am very angry at my fellow muslims that think the best way to live by Islam is to declare war on the western world when most of us love some of the things the western world has given us. Trust the strength of our faith and stop forcing our beliefs into others. I have seen a number of times cartoons with Jesus, Moses, Buda and other religious figures and could get a laugh from them. I think it's just fair if other people feel the same way about cartoons with our profet. Let's get serious about what really matters. Thank you!  


6 Feb 2006 @ 15:27 by MacG @85.97.74.154 : that's just wrong
As a muslim I don't find the cartoons offensive.
But that's the way it is in the muslim world.If you portray Mohammed or print his cartoons or show him in a movie or something like that it is considered offensive no matter what the concept is.
Cartoons are not offensive but knowing this fact and still printing them is offensive and I think very racist.All this is about creating an anti-muslim buzz. By the way I never agreed with violence whether it is declaring war on a country because it has petrol and killing innocent people or it is hijacking planes or killing innocent people. But how else can you respond to an IDIOT like that:

"3 Feb 2006 @ 22:45 by terrorist n° 1 @82.146.104.48 : Fuck it
Fuck it !
Just laugh with it ! The cartoons ARE funny;
FUCK ISLAM
FUCK MUSLIMS
FUCK ISLAM
Hey freaky muslims, can you laugh with this ? You fools !!!! "

I'LL LAUGH WHEN THEY BOMB YOUR ASS AND KİLL YOUR FAMİLY BUDDY!!!!
that's just wrong.  



6 Feb 2006 @ 15:58 by Al @62.252.128.16 : cheers
thanks Mansoor for showing an enlightened and fair mind  


6 Feb 2006 @ 16:40 by aku @202.138.226.3 : Islam is the best
i love islam as my religion
and i will die for Islam
if u insult my prophet and i will sacrefice my blood to my religion Islam
i hope u will remember that islam will united and will not stays if our religion
insult by you people
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!REMEMBER THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  



6 Feb 2006 @ 16:52 by vibrani : How pathetic
snore.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 17:09 by wtf @194.203.13.71 : WTF?

When are you fools going to realise that it's NOT racist to say something against Muslims?
Muslim (Islam) is a religion, not a race, for Chrissake.  



6 Feb 2006 @ 17:20 by pro-ISRAEL mexican @64.46.176.34 : DISEASE
Islam is the cancer of the world.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 18:14 by Just me :-) @82.123.3.142 : Islam is evil
Islam is pure evil. All muslims are devil worshippers and should be ignored while on their land and expelled from Europe... hell, they came here of their own free will and far from thanking us for allowing them to stay, they now dare to tell us how to behave in OUR countries ?!... I despise Islam and its backward, racist, sexist, violent and absurd beliefs.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 18:15 by krinkle @216.171.143.110 : If the shoe were on the other foot...
Imagine a cartoon depicting Jesus molesting young boys... there would, needless to say, be an uproar. Also, "anti-semitism" is considered an outrage and always causes an uproar, just ask the Primier of Iran; who with his comments about the "holocaust" caused practically every western government to condemn his statements; talk about "freedom of speech!"  


6 Feb 2006 @ 18:25 by Just me :-) @82.123.3.142 : ...just for your information
Firstly, nobody printed cartoons of muhammed molesting young boys... but then again he WAS a pedophile as in the koran they say he married a 6 years old girl and "consummated his marriage" (read : statutory rape anywhere in the civilized world) when she was 9

.. also nobody rioted when some artist dipped a cruxifix in urine... some disliked, but nobody acted like apes like moslems do !  



6 Feb 2006 @ 18:41 by amgad @217.139.66.36 : Please Read ...
There exists a cultural vagueness in the West. This vagueness results from the presence of two different concepts. The first is a great Western concept that we respect, appraise, and need. That concept is freedom of speech. This is a great humane and civilized concept. On the other hand, there is the great Islamic concept of dignifying Allah’s Messenger (SAWS). The problem arises due to the lack of understanding of the Islamic Civilization and the Western Civilization regarding these two concepts. The non-Muslims cannot value the rank of dignifying the Prophet (SAWS). On the other hand, due to the below-average quality of practical application of freedom of speech, Muslims have a vague understanding of the concept of respecting freedom of speech.

Accordingly, what is required now? We do not want to refuse the concept of freedom of speech, absolutely not. However, the West should alter the freedom of speech so that it does not collide with the very important Islamic value of dignifying the Prophet (SAWS). Here lies the vagueness and ambiguity. The West understands very well the freedom of speech (which we appreciate) but it does not understand Islamic values, such as dignifying the Prophet (SAWS) and other Islamic sanctities. This is where the Western cultural vagueness lies.

I clearly say to the West, you have a problem. You cannot comprehend how much the Muslims love Prophet Muhammad (SAWS). You are still unable to understand this point. If you had really encompassed its significance, you would never have accepted what happened. The West, in general, governments and people, does not apprehend that Allah’s Messenger (SAWS) is dearer to us than our parents, dearer to me than my father and dearer than my mother. I am sure that any Muslim woman listening to me now, be her religious or not, will swear on that fact. Just ask, what does Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) mean to you? It is not even necessary to do that because it is so evident, but you may conduct surveys for yourselves, and you will realize how true what I am saying is. Ask any youth, be he heedless or pious; ask any Muslim anywhere, in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Yemen or in Egypt. Ask any Muslim in any village regardless of how religious he is, be he an obedient Muslim or not, a drug user or not, successful in his life or a failure, old or young, ask them, what does Allah’s Messenger (SAWS) mean to you?

O West, I affirm that Allah’s Messenger (SAWS) is dearer to all Muslims than their own parents. O West, Allah’s Messenger (SAWS) is dearer to us, Muslims, than our children and grandchildren. O West, Allah’s Messenger (SAWS) is dearer to us than our money, dearer to us than our own selves. He is dearer to us than our own countries. O Egyptian, who is dearer to you, Egypt or Allah’s Prophet? O Saudi, who is dearer to you, Saudi Arabia or Allah’s Prophet? O Yemeni, O Moroccan, O Algerian, who is dearer to you, your country or Allah’s Messenger (SAWS)? O West, comprehend that meaning, Allah’s Messenger (SAWS) is dearer to Muslims than their children and their own selves.

We can never forget the hadith that I repeatedly mentioned during the episodes of “On the Path of the Beloved”. O West, listen to this hadith[11] as it forms part of the sentimental make-up of the Islamic personality:

“We were with the Prophet and he was holding the hand of Omar Ibnul-Khattab. Omar said to him, ‘O Allah's Messenger! You are dearer to me than everything except my own self.’ The Prophet said, ‘No, by Him in Whose Hand my soul is, (you will not have complete faith) till I am dearer to you than your own self.’ Then Omar said to him, ‘However, now, by Allah, you are dearer to me than my own self.’ The Prophet said, ‘Now, O Omar, (now you are a believer).’”[12]

Being a true believer is conditioned with loving Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) more than our own selves.

O West, this is our notion and this is our love for Prophet Muhammad (SAWS).

I know that the West resists racism as they realize very well what it means. I also know that they stand up against any anti-Semitic assaults as they recognize the serious consequences of such acts. Yet, true contradiction lies in respecting Semitism and resisting racialism on the one hand, while humiliating the most valued figure for Muslims, the Prophet (SAWS), on the other.

Six months ago, a famous journalist of the BBC attacked Arabs describing them as a worthless nation. In spite of being a renowned figure with a daily program in Britain, his slandering was rejected by the British as racist and he was fired from the BBC. At that time, I was preparing a program on family matters, and knowing that he had articles and shows tackling this subject, I wanted to refer to them. To my surprise, none of his works were available due to his intolerant views against Arabs. There is no way to compare the Prophet (SAWS) to the Arabic nation, as slandering them is of a diminutive nature when compared to offending the Prophet (SAWS). My message to the West then is that freedom of speech, which we indeed respect, honor, and actually need, should be modified so that it does not clash with the highly revered Muslim value of dignifying the Prophet (SAWS). The West respects monarchies, Semitism, all races, and different ethnicities, and its respect to the Prophet (SAWS) and to sacred Muslim values should be no less.

Thus, my message to the Muslim ummah is that we should not forsake dignifying the Prophet (SAWS) under any circumstance. On the other hand, my message to the West is that the value of freedom of speech should be adapted to Muslim values.

My third message is to the whole world. This offense does not aim at the Prophet (SAWS) alone, but rather to one billion, two hundred thousand Muslims; or rather to all humanity. To explain this further to everyone, whether Muslim or not, I believe that Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) is the greatest personality that existed on earth. There is no doubt that his model of reform was most successful so far and whoever denies this fact is indeed most ungrateful. Slandering him is actually slandering humanity. Great men that existed throughout history were qualified as such due to a certain trait in their characters. Gandhi for example, was a great politician, Shakespeare a great dramatist, Voltaire a great writer, Napoleon a great military leader and so on. They were all great in one aspect or the other, while the Prophet (SAWS) was great in every aspect of his life. He was so great morally that he never hit or humiliated a soul, never beat a woman, never betrayed or lied, never went back on his word or avenged himself. He was always called 'the truthful and honest one' before bearing the message of Islam, and after becoming a prophet, the values and principles of the Qur’an were the model for his behavior. He was also great in his political insight. After the Battle of the Trench, for example, he knew that it was a turning point that would not be followed by a defeat. Moreover, he was great in his submissiveness to Allah as he bowed when praying, saying,

“O Allah, it is for Thee that I bowed. I affirm my faith in Thee and I submit to Thee, and submit humbly before Thee my hearing, my eyesight, my marrow, my bone, my sinew.”[13]

He (SAWS) also used to stand (in prayer) until both his feet swelled. When asked why (he offered such an unbearable prayer) he said,

“Should I not be a thankful slave?” [14]

He was great in the way he believed in freedom of opinion. In the Battle of Badr, he changed the location of the battlefield upon the advice of a soldier. He also agreed to dig the trench around Madinah according to Salman al-Faresy’s suggestion, and changed the fighting plan of the Battle of Uhud to respect the opinion of some of his companions. This is how he respected freedom of speech 1400 years ago!

He was great at forgiving others. On the day of the Conquest of Makkah, his companions were rejoicing saying, “Today is the day of a great battle and today Quraysh will be humiliated by Allah”. Conversely, the prophet's (SAWS) response was that today is the day of mercy in which Allah will bestow honor on Quraysh.

He was great in his voluntary renunciation of worldly luxuries when he could have been the richest man on earth had he wished to be. He was also great in the way he dealt with young people motivating them to exercise. For example, he once passed by some of the young companions of the tribe of Aslam practicing archery and he said to them,

“O offspring of Ishmael! Practice archery as your father was a great archer. I am with (on the side of) the son of so-and-so-.” Hearing that, one of the two teams stopped throwing. The Prophet (SAWS) asked them, “Why are you not throwing?” They replied, “O Allah's Apostle! How shall we throw when you are with the opposite team?” He said, “Throw, for I am with you all.”[15]

His enemies were never able to slander him due to any bad trait. He lived with them for 40 years before the divine message and another 13 years after it, and never were they able to smear him with a single bad trait that marred his character, or doubt his outstanding abilities. They even testified that he had never lied in his life. That is how great he was and that is how humiliating him smears every American, Indian, Pakistani etc.; everyone, whether Muslim or not. It is an insult to all humankind when such a great man is insulted.

He was great in his mercy. When he was persecuted by the people of At-Ta’ef and stoned until his feet kept bleeding, the angel of the mountains asked for his permission to destroy them. Yet his response was to supplicate Allah to guide them and to save them. Furthermore, in the Battle of Uhud, he was injured, overcome by his enemies, had his front teeth broken, and fell into a pit with blood gushing from his wounds. Nevertheless, when his companions asked him to curse them and to invoke Allah to punish them, he declined stressing the fact that he was sent as a mercy to all of humankind. He even invoked Allah to guide them to the right path and to excuse them for their ignorance.

He was merciful even with animals narrating that,

“A man saw a dog eating mud from (the severity of) thirst. So, that man took a shoe (and filled it) with water and kept on pouring the water for the dog till it quenched its thirst. So Allah approved of his deed and made him enter Paradise.”[16]

Similarly, he (SAWS) said,

“A woman was tortured and was put in Hell because of a cat which she had kept locked till it died of hunger.”[17]

This is our Prophet and this is how great he was. Unlike that of other great human figures in history, the Prophet’s greatness is lasting throughout the generations.

He believed in co-existence. He trusted the Jews and gave them all the rights of citizenship in Madinah, guaranteeing that no one would harm them, take any of their money, force them to convert, or intercede with their freedom to worship. He was also great in co-existence when he was against using the Muslims loyal to him in Makkah to create tension among the people of Quraysh, even during the war between Makkah and Madinah. At the time of the Hudaybeya treaty, he could have waged war against Quraysh but resorted to peace instead. He could have turned it into a bloodbath, but he chose peace and forced it on his enemies.

The human race should be proud that Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) existed one day, whether they were Muslims, Hindu, Jews, Christians, believers of any kind, or even non-believers. He is a turning point in the course of humanity. This is Muhammad (SAWS) and this is how humanity was humiliated the day he was. People around the world are demanding an international law that protects the dignity of this great Prophet.

That was my message to Muslims, to the West, and to the whole world.

One final question remains here, which is, what is it that we want? We do not need speeches. It took me some time to deliver this speech, as I believe that speeches alone cannot solve this problem. We do not even want superficial apologies that are not as deep as our wounds. We do need effective actions that denote Western respect for the Prophet (SAWS). We will not stop our protests until our Prophet regains the dignity he duly deserves as our great leader. Thus empty words and shallow apologies are not enough, actions must be taken. Until then, I need everyone to convey this message to their families and friends. I want it to be translated by Dar al-Tarjama to all languages and to be distributed everywhere to reach the West. This speech will be broadcast on Iqraa’ channel soon and I want as many people as possible to watch it. Meanwhile we should do our best to let the people know about our Prophet (SAWS). ‘On the Path of the Beloved’ for example, a program about the Prophet’s life, is being replayed now on Iqraa’ every Tuesday and Friday. Dr Tarek Suweidan, A’aed al-Qarny, Al-Habib Aly al-Jifry and Dr. Al-Buty are all renowned modern Muslims scholars who have speeches and articles about the life of the Prophet. Please do your best to make good use of their works as well as the tapes of ‘On the Path of the Beloved’ to enlighten the whole world about the Prophet (SAWS), until this predicament is unraveled and until Muslim requests are answered with real actions. Thus, what I am asking everyone to do is to distribute this message everywhere and to let everyone know about who the Prophet (SAWS) is. Our duty is double fold, we need to distribute this speech and make it available everywhere, and we need to introduce the Prophet (SAWS) and tell his story to everyone, among Muslims and non-Muslims. This speech is to be continued and I am indeed not done yet with this issue. Thank you. May peace and Allah’s blessing and mercy be upon you all, and let us get to work.

Amr Khaled  



6 Feb 2006 @ 18:50 by Just me :-) @82.123.3.142 : Outrageous...
"On the other hand, my message to the West is that the value of freedom of speech should be adapted to Muslim values. "

LOL ?..... why ?... I for one don't care AT ALL about muslims, their prophet and whatever they CHOSE to believe in... why, should we be forced to "adapt" our values for you ?... what's next ?... eating in the street of Paris or London during the ramadan will be considered "insensitive"... wearing modern clothes will be considered "provocative" ?

... the bottom line is : you are FREE TO DO WHATEVER YOU WANT in your countries, BUT IN EUROPE, ACCEPT OUR WAY OF LIFE AND OUR VALUES... OR LEAVE :-)  



6 Feb 2006 @ 18:56 by DEVIL @85.101.6.222 : HAHAHA
HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA! GOOOD...GO ON, GO ON, DO YOUR BEST... STIR YOURSELF, PROVOKE OTHERS... AT LAST YOU WILL COME TO MY WAY!!...HAHAHA HAHAHA  


6 Feb 2006 @ 19:21 by MacG @85.97.74.154 : W.C?
Respecting others beliefs is one of the prime principles of western civilisation.
Then how come so many people here are saying it's freedom of speech fuck your religion?
And another important part of western civilisation is not to judge people according to their religion, race, gender etc...
Then how come "you people" are saying fuck your religion go to your country we don't want you here it is freedem of expression? You think that the muslims in France are not French or Muslims in Denmark are all aliens?

is this your understanding of Civilisation? Then "you" really have a pathetic,racist, full of bullshit, hypocrite civilisation (I don't mean the real Western Civilisation I mean YOU)  



6 Feb 2006 @ 19:29 by johnny irish catholic @65.221.152.113 : mohammed cartoons
I have read that Arabs were once a most intelligent people. Where have they lost the plot. Threats of violence, and retaliation are of no use today. Using individuals to detonate themselves also seems a bit backward. When you have the atvantage in numbers, shouldn't you be using the numbers to your atvantage. Protest in public, boycott products and governments, write to your congressman or global equivalent. Use your collective heads. If you succeed, the world will be peaceful and it will be yours. As an Irish Catholic living in the United States, I have no problem with that.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 19:32 by Rob X @88.106.143.10 : All this over a fucking CARTOON
Extremist anything are CUNTS. Having said that... extremist Jews/Christians/Sikhs/Buddhists/Hindus don't tend to exist.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 20:05 by hawaii @67.53.47.190 : Islam needs some house cleaning
I agree with all the posts about moderate moslems not voicing their beliefs. Where are they? It's the Imams in the mosques who are the real villans here. Those who preach to the masses are responsible. Where do you think these radicals get their ideas and instructions from. Most probably don't dream it up themselves. They're following instructions from their "priest". In the western world, if my parish priest said go out and war on moslems...you can bet he wouldnt be a priest long. He'd be denounced in the media and his superiors would be on his ass in a heartbeat. Islam needs a strong leader to clean house and being their religion back to where it should be...which is truly one of the great religions of the world. If they can't reign in their radical groups, then there will be bloodshed. The world won't tolerate this terrorism bullshit much longer. I'd hate to see another nuke used but it seems conventional warfare isnt working. It will get to that eventually. Let's all pray they clan house quick.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 20:25 by johnny @157.174.221.168 : Let's make a deal
Ok, we'll stop printing these devastating cartoons, if you stop cutting peoples heads off, you jackasses.  


6 Feb 2006 @ 20:41 by peace2leave @82.76.249.40 : Response to vibrani
i don't agree war whateever the purposes are. Muslims, as well as christians must show tolerance. "My people" isn't my people. "my people", i know, tolerate every religion and culture and forgive everyone. the idea of religion is not just about love, is about an idea that we are not alone on this planet. we don't even possess this earth. the idea of religion is not to possess any material thing but have faith and believe that's "someone up there" who takes care about my life.

Even though in this world we are opressed and killed for an idea, we must keep our faith and to believe that who's raising the sword will perish by the sword.

I know that up there in Mesopotamia there's a big interest (mostly oil is all about), a poor people living in poor countries and lands, but let's have in mind the oppression from communist countries against those who believed there's a God in Heaven and governs our lives! the REALLY CHRISTIANS SUFFERRED from the atheist people and i think that those who go to war over the poor people DON'T HAVE ANY FAITH! They're atheists.

The idea that christians kills for oil or wealth is wrong. As well as the idea the muslim religion is evil is wrong too. The REAL CHRISTIANS AND THE REAL MUSLIM DOESN'T KILL for ANY REASON! In my oppinion, I think that we must defend the religion and our beliefs not by the sword (nor Mahommed, neither Jesus, neither Moses, neither Brahma, or any other big Initiats have thaught that) but with peace. Happy those who are peacemakers 'cause they'll inherit the earth. And by the way, people from all over the world are allways united by pain, callamities, floods, earthquakes and so on. And that is so painfull for human kind!

Wake up everybody! Make this momment not to be too late to reconciliate.

I think that Malraux got the picture: this century or will be religious or will be not. But first of all, better the human kind perish than be drowned in to a world with no God in it, doesn't matter what kind of "colour" is: Christian, Muslim, Buddhism etc. May God enlighten our hearts!  



6 Feb 2006 @ 20:55 by takeiteasy @64.190.19.74 : moderation is the biggest virtue
I'm appalled at the comments have read in here, both from muslims and non-muslims... What has this world come to? Fanatic muslims kill 4000 americans in NY because americans support Israel. Americans invade countries for their oil with the excuse of terrorism. All about power and money. Always. And then what? Moderate muslims lose their voice and are seen as terrorist. Moderate americans lose their voices and are seen as greedy heretics. What I truly don't understand is why there weren't all these riots when the pictures of Abu Graib appeared. Isn't God in all of us? Isn't violating a human being the same as violiting God and thus any prophet of God. I have faith in God. Have no faith in religion. Any religion. Religions are just another form of people thinking they are better than other. I am a muslim so I have better family values than you... I am a christian so I have better human values than you... I am a jew so I am one of the chosen ones... what's all this bs??? we are all the same and believe me, when we'll die, we all be in the same place... for if there is a hell, most of these religious will be there for their arrogance...  


6 Feb 2006 @ 21:07 by jazzolog : Thank You All So Much For This Thread
In it
I hear the
collective cry
of the World.  



6 Feb 2006 @ 21:14 by american kid @68.199.14.245 : Lighten up
I wouldn't have even seen these cartoons if it weren't for all the publicity. Bullying 101: ignore the bully and don't feed into his game or he will keep picking on you. So who's the genius who thought bombing the embassy and killing and reacting so uncivilized wouldn't put people back into the very category Muslims are trying to escape. After 9/11 were the muslim embassies bombed or marched upon, or attacked by angry mobs of Americans? If you were in the US at that time, you would have seen peace, reflection, disbelief, strengthening family ties, love for your neighbor (no they didn't check his religion first.) (I bought my new American Flag from a Muslim store owner on 9/12, the line went around the block. No one said let's not support his business he may be guilty because he's a Muslim complete with turban) Don't start thinking you know what is write for the other person, he may start thinking what is right for you. (which is exactly the approach to 9/11 that the US has taken) Stop this pity party, and it was pretty funny that they just might run out of virgins up in heaven, although that's pretty hard to believe when you count all the children and young people being killed by suicide bombers -don't you think that the actions of a few are ruining it for the rest of us who enjoy our spirituality in spite of the individuals who are not right by any religion? Tasteless cartoons, suicide bombers, war on terror - it's all the same, a great big lack of love for our fellow man. Love Mohammed, and see the mercy He had even in the worst circumstances for His fellow man. That part of the lesson I think has been lost, and if He were here, would He be solving problems by violence? I challenge anyone to say He would accept each and every suicide terrorist into Paradise after they've died under such violence and destruction. The pain of their sudden and unexpected violence will have reprecussions for centuries to come. And that they think heaven is having sex with virgins has the rest of the world chuckling anyway at them...poor mis guided sex fiends...  


6 Feb 2006 @ 21:36 by Gulsum Ramazanoglu @195.175.174.24 : Mohammed cartoons
I didnt find those cartoons 'dirty'...contrarily some were funny and all put the perception of the cartoon owners about sick minded muslims.. naturally they confuse those sick muslims with the prophet and they make a shortcut in their minds as the prophet of Islam opened this path...they are right in finding those sick muslims disgusting! our hearts are rejecting the quality of todays sick muslims... they live their mediaeval age... and that beautiful prophet is looking at them with sadness..
 



6 Feb 2006 @ 22:04 by MacG @85.97.74.154 : Responding American kid
I agree with most of what you said especially about Muhammed and how he would not approve what is happening today.
I think the blame is on the people who provoke muslims by picking on their softsides.And I am mad at people who posted things like "fuck muslims, muslims are apes, etc.." (That doesn't justify burning buildings killing people of course.) But I disagree with you about the bullying part. I think the muslims are so out of control because they have been bullied for so long...

And think about the Bullying 101 code:
When you ignore America it invades your country.  



6 Feb 2006 @ 23:08 by MY NAME? NOT TELLIN' YOU @209.191.171.207 : RELIGION SUCKS!
WHEN A COUNTRY IS SUPRESSED BY RELIGION IT NEGLECTS ITS PEOPLE FROM THINKING AND ACHIEVING PRODUCTIVITY TO THE WORLD.
THIS FUCKING EXTREMIST PEOPLE HATES US BECAUSE OF WHO WE ARE, BECAUSE OF THE SUPER POWER THAT WE ARE. HATE YOUR FUCKING SELF, HATE YOUR ROOTS... BLAME YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT AND RELIGION, THAT HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT TO MARGINISE YOUR PEOPLE AND YOUR COUNTRIES.
THAT WAS THE MAIN REASON THE PILGRIMS ARRIVED TO THE NEW WORLD (WESTER) FROM THE OLD WORLD. NOW LOOK AT US...WE HAVE BECOME THE SUPER POWER OF THE WORLD.
WE HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO THAN GOING CRAZY OVER SOME STUPID ASS CARTOONS THAT SOME IDIOTS DREW. GET FUCKING OVER IT...MIDDLE EASTERN ARE FUCKING SMART ASS PEOPLE, BUT THEY ARE SO INTO THAT STUPID SHIT OF RELIGION, THAT THEY HAVE ACHIEVED DISTRUCTION JUST LIKE THE OTHER FUCKING RELIGION CATHOLISM, CHRISTIANISM, BUDHISM, INDI, JEW. THEY ALL ARE A WHOLE BUNCH OF STUPIDITY THAT SOME IDIOTS INVENTED MAYBE 10 THOUSAND YRS AGO.  



6 Feb 2006 @ 23:25 by hawaii @67.53.47.190 : responding to Amgad
In response to the LONG comment from Amgad.... every religion has their icon or holy man. You're saying that we (the rest of the world) has to conform to one religion's requirement...or else nothing will ever get better. Come on, let's be real. I dfon't care how dear he is to you. In a civilized world, if someone talks shit about your child; mother; father or God, you agree to disagree, maybe get angry but you don't kill people. Work within your community (religion) and become part of the world dont ask the work to conform to you.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 00:21 by LB @67.171.193.30 : Islam
The controversy about the pictures of Mohammed confirms that the Islamic "extremists" aren't religious at all. As for the rest of them, I'd be TOTALLy ashamed of my religion and start looking elsewhere.... because it looks like Islam isn't working at all. Maybe this is a great time for the world to breathe a sigh of relief because Islam is on is way out? The rest of the world may have to get together and kill it like they did Nazism. Because it is looking more and more everyday like it is just an -ism than a religion. More like Fascism than a religion. Did all our relatives die in WWII just to see these lunatics run around the world doing whatever they want to anyone, in the name of "Allah?" My fingertip is more enlightened than these fools. What about generosity? I thought that was in most religions. These fools are just selfish men and have nothing to do with religion. Just want their own way, wahh, wahh, are like little babies.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 00:23 by Sarah @82.123.145.166 : The true neo-nazis...
Islam will die or be destroyed, just like nazism did... it's pretty much the same actually. There will be a major clash of civilizations, good vs. evil all over again, but it will take longer this time because the U.S didn't wake up to the mortal threat after Pearl Habor 9/11

-Mein Kampf The Koran : The thing that holds together an otherwise incomprehensible rant written by a madman (HitlerMuhammed) is hatred against the Jews.

-Sieg Heil Allah Akbar : same kind of meaningless, yet powerful sounding, phrase, shouted by people so brainwashed they are ready to die and kill for two mere words put together.

-Like nazis bullied and then fighted for the Sudetes, Rheinland, Poland, etc... muslims are doing the same for Gaza, Chechnya, Kashmir, Aceh, etc.... Islam like nazism can only justify its existence in a state of war (Jihad)

-Same attitude toward women, merely seen as a way to increase the size of armies... in that sense the veiled women of Islam aren't that different from the blue eyed nazi maidens of Goebbels' propaganda posters

-Same attitude toward gays and disabled people...

... the list coud go on, but nobody likes (or read...) long posts.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 00:36 by macG @85.97.74.154 : SARAH
-You haven't read Koran right? i bet you haven't read Mein Kampf either.
If you had reas Koran I would expect you to understand it better than an uneducated suppressed fanatics.
-The difference in Gaza Chechnya Kashnir Aceh is that these belonged to the muslims and they were taken away from them so now they are trying to get back their land.

If you want to make a comparison try USA and Nazi Germany or Bush and Hitler or Nazism and Kapitalizm.

Don't believe everything your TV tells you!  



7 Feb 2006 @ 00:43 by Faidros @217.208.25.51 : Let god decide
OK all you religous people - I know how to settle this.

Let the ALL MIGHTY (God, Alah, Jahve, Zeus, Odin or any diety you call yours) settle it at doomsday, when you die or what ever you belive is going to happen in the end!

If the christians are right - the mulims will get a "-Sorry folks, we dont accept any complaints against cartoons. And by the way - you and all other non-christians should follow the signs marked "Hell".

If the muslims is the ones that has shosen the right religion. They get in to paradise and I asume there is something bad avaiting the rest of us.

As a ateist I will loose in any case but at least there would bee some hope for pease wile Im living. However as a ateist I dont realy fear whats going to happen after I die anyway.

My point to all you belivers out there is

-Who are you to belive that you know what a supreme diety wants?

-Who are your preacher, imam, padre, etc to belive that he knows what a suprem diety want?

Is it becourse you have read an old book? A book that CLAIMS to have been written by people that CLAIMS to have had devine revelations? In all logic a sourse cant refer to it self for validation.

Regardles if there is a god or not. Claiming to know the will of a suprem diety must be regarded, not only as megalomanic but also, as HYBRIS (greek ie.~ claming to be equal to the gods).

As a ateist I dont claim any insights in the will of any supreme diety. I wich all you religius people could show the same respect for any potential diety by not acting in such a dietys name just on the basis of what you belive.

And we would live happily ever after.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 00:46 by Sarah @82.123.145.166 : ISSlam
"these belonged to the muslims and they were taken away from them so now they are trying to get back their land"
... sure they do, and what about the ethnic Germans of Danzig and Prague... your are proving my point :)

YOU should read the Koran... I admit I can't quote it verbatim, but I have read enough of it to know that your prophet hated the Jews. I did read Mein Kampf in full (and in German too) and it's not even as crazy as the Koran for that matter.

... as for TV, don't believe what you see on Al Jazeera.

Anyway, I guess we won't agree... :)  



7 Feb 2006 @ 00:52 by simen @80.111.43.78 : should freedom of speach have bounderies
What is freedom of speach? What is freedom of speach meant to protect? Those are the critical questions one should ask after the mohammed cartoons in the Jylland posten. In the west freedom of speach is close to absolute. We can say about anything to anyone and print about whatever we want about any topic.This right is crutial for a democracy to function. Journalists can print any story they see fit. If individuals ,the government, big business or any organization commits crimes, or abuse his/hers/their power, freedom of speach makes sure it will get out in the open eventually. It functions as societys safety valve. Should it be aloved to debate or critizise all topics even religion? The answer is a big yes. Religion is often used for personal gain and to promote twisted views. History has thought us that lesson again and again. Now how can we have a debate about negative effects of fundamentalism in Islam (or any religion) if the fundamentalists are the ones that set the bounderies of what is and is not to be discussed? And should the views of one religion set limits to what i can say or illustrate with a pen when i have no religion (ateist) or have a different religion? If you answer these questions with a yes, you will not have freedom of speach but government controled cencorship .Going down that road is a slippery sloap.. Freedom of speach insures that all opinions can be heard no matter how insulting or faul. I have many times been offended by opinions and statements uttered by fundamentalists,nazies,criminals and from time to time the fellow man, but i would die for their rigth to offend me. Freedom of speach makes it impossible for the big group to dictate the believes of smaller groups, In short without this right the other basic human rights are impossible. Without freedom of speach there can be no freedom of religion and minorities will suffer as a consequense. Because of terrorist actions ,violence and death treaths by fundamentalist muslims the west has already started to self sencor itself. Journalists and others are so afraid of these fundamentalists that they dont dare say /write/draw what they mean anymore. Simply out of fear of the reactions from parts of the muslim community. That is why this mess started in the first place. In Denmark an auther was making an illustrated history book about mohammed and no illustraters dared ilustrate the book ,because they feared for their lives/safety if they did. As a reaction to this Jylland posten gave 40 cartoonist the objective to make a cartoon of mohammed the way they pictured him in their minds. 12 responded and those are the cartoons that got printed. They wanted to check how far the western self censorship had come in the covering of islam. And considering the reactions by parts of the muslim community around the world ,and the reluctance western media has shown in their coverage of the story by not printing the cartoons and not telling the history behind the cartoons, i can only conclude that Jylland posten did the right thing when they published the article with the mohammed cartoons. They tried to make a point and the media coverage and the outcry from parts of the muslim world has sadly proven them right.....  


7 Feb 2006 @ 01:15 by MacG @85.97.74.154 : Islam
I've read it and all I read was about being good and right.Has the same theme with the other religious books.

As for anti-semitizm:Centuries ago probably before there was a word anti-semitizm, the jews were kicked-off from Spain and they were outcasted from whole Europe until one country wellcomed them and they still live together in peace.Guess what country was that. A tip it was a muslim country:)

And I only saw Al-jezzeera on CNN news.

I have never heard even as an excuse for declaring war that the Nazis were trying to get back to their homeland.That's a completely different thing.

And more recently what do you think the Serbians were doing in Serebrenetza to the muslims under the close watch of U.N. That was just ten years ago in the middle of Western Civilisation.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 01:27 by Sarah @82.123.145.166 : iSSlam²
"I have never heard even as an excuse for declaring war that the Nazis were trying to get back to their homeland.That's a completely different thing"

.. no offense, but you are in great need of History lessons... THE core belief of National Socialism was the creation of Lebensraum for the German people... first by RECLAIMING the land lost by the German Empire after the Traité de Versailles in 1918, then by RECLAIMING the land they believed belonged to the Aryan people from Russia to France. The Nazis bullied for The Sudetes and for Austria and got what they wanted (just like the muslims got Gaza now)... they then bullied again for Poland, but this time war broke out, like war will break out when the muSSlims finally cross the line.

... and in the former Yugoslavia, in Bosnia and Kosovo, Nato troops fought and died against their former WWII Serbian allies TO PROTECT MUSLIMS (not that they deserved it, but here goes), so please have the decency not to complain about that !!  



7 Feb 2006 @ 01:31 by vibrani : Comments?
Would any of you care to comment on my article on this subject?[link] (I have read the Koran, the Old and New Testaments, books of all religions.)  


7 Feb 2006 @ 01:38 by Sarah @82.123.145.166 : Bad link ?
Vibrani, I get "There was an error in picking up the newslog information"... sorry :/  


7 Feb 2006 @ 01:41 by vibrani : Dang
that's the link Ming gave me. Well, it's on NCN's front splash page as "A Simple Resolution" or you can see it at my web site [link]  


7 Feb 2006 @ 01:42 by vibrani : Try this
link [link]  


7 Feb 2006 @ 01:42 by RESPECT. @68.100.128.184 : listen up
ok ok guys, everyone commenting saying that muslims are terrorists, everyone commenting saying that danish people are bastards, seriously just shut the hell up. Islam is a religion of peace, and VERY FEW support osama bin laden, saddam, taliban, and all those people. now i know im gonna get a comment saying "I LOVE BIN LADEN" or "BIN LADEN WILL DIE SO WILL MUSLIMS", but i just wanna say that as a muslim myself, if i see saddam on the street id spit in his face. if i see a member of the taliban id spit in his face. the Koran came down to the prophet Mohammad, we believe. If any of you have knowledge, you'd know the VERY FIRST word that was recited was "read". the 1st words of the Koran spoke about reading, reading in the name of God who created you and gave you the ability to read. In Islam, gaining knowledge is one of the best deeds a person, man or woman, can possibly do. If islam really is a terrorist religion, how have we been doing fairly well for about 1600 years? this is our rough spot. the Germans had it. Does that mean the germans are all going to hell? nope. i detest bin laden and everything about him, but i also detest the people who judge too quickly. i am a muslim, i am president of my senior class in high school, i have a 3.9 GPA. i think that i am making my God proud. Muslims do not hate jews, we hate the occupation of the palestinian territories by the isreali government. In Islam, it is fully legal to not only talk to a Jew, but to MARRY one. We consider Moses a prophet, we consider Jesus a prophet.

Its all about respect. how low can u possibly sink, muslims and non-muslims, for dissing an entire religion? there are over 1 BILLION muslims in this world, and over 1.75 christians. A number of people have somehow gotten it into their head that blowing things up is cool. Hell no. Suicide is a sin in Islam, so is killing a life of any human being or living thing. Respect religions, if you wanna diss someone, go ahead, tear a picture of bin laden. Aim at a specific figure. but please, please, dont offend the rest of us that mean well. Same with the Muslims, ive been reading comments saying "fuck christianity", the muslims writing are not respectable muslims. In Islam, it is proper to respect the other's religion. Everyone who means harm, shut the hell up guys and just live ur life. we have better things to be worrying about: Cancer, Poverty, and so on and so forth. Put the effort in. Make PEACE. Al Salamu Aleikum. (for all you non-arabic readers, that means peace be with you. that is how Muslims end their conversations.)

Thank you, no disrespect intended to anyone of any religion.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 01:46 by Agus kurniawan @222.124.11.242 : go to hell denmark
prepare yourself to face my God in the end of this world. also I want to know what kind of sentenced waiting for you.iiih sereeeem  


7 Feb 2006 @ 01:48 by MacG @85.97.74.154 : Serebrenitza
By protecting Muslims you mean closing the city taking the arms and letting the Serbians in to kill every Muslim in the city so that the majority would be Serbian
and not muslim anymore.This way their allies from the WWII could claim the land.

Nazis wanted to kill every non-aryan that's why they kept lists of peoples families and then gathered them together in the ghettos and then loaded them on trains.If you think that muslims are trying to outnumber the western people they are already outnumbered.
-muslims,chinese,russians,africans...The West is already outnumbered. Whay do you think there's so many billlions of people hating especially American Politics?

USA is the country with the biggest nuclear weapons...Irony is that USA is the only country in the history of mankind to use atomic bomb on innocent civilian people.

On one episode of an American sit-com Drew Carey Show, there were a couple of jokes about Poland.It was a comedy show and the lines were just jokes and werent inserted in the show to specifically hurt Polish people. But when some Polish people complained about it being offensive the show was re-edited immediately. But when it comes to muslims it is suddenly freedom of speech.

All and all is just for some crappy cartoons and people are getting killed for it.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 01:48 by RESPECT @68.100.128.184 : reply
Agus, come on man. im a muslim too. if you think their gonna burn in hell, let them burn in hell the day of judgement. we really need to stop the conflict, and us as the next generation need to start it.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 02:04 by Sarah @82.123.145.166 : ---
@MacG : you are bringing in so many things that are out of topic/irrelevant... debating with you is pointless, sorry.

@Vibrani : thank you for pointing me to your article. I found it very interesting and well documented. I'll send/link it to people I know :)  



7 Feb 2006 @ 02:07 by respect @68.100.128.184 : to sarah
MacG: i agree with you wholeheartedly. What you say has a point, and what you say has meaning.

keep it up man.

Sarah: no disrespect inteded, but im just trying to open my mind as much as i possibly could. maybe we all should do the same. again, no disrespect.

peace. strive for it.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 02:14 by MacG @85.97.74.154 : Vibrani's article
Thanks for posting.
There's a lot of wrong information in your article about islam.
But the most important one is as stated above by "RESPECT"
In islam it is vitally important to believe in Jesus, Moses and other prophets.
You can not, believe in Mohammed and not believe in Jesus or Moses.
So there is no best prophet. or worse prophets.
All prophets are messengers of god. The same goes for Jesus he is not god or his son he is a prophet like Mohammed.

So the same respect that muslims are demanding for Mohammed they have to show to Jesus.That's what Islam says.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 02:18 by vibrani : Sarah & MacG
thank you very much. If you think my information about Islam is incorrect, I'd like to know your sources. I am sure mine are correct. The important matter is respect and acceptance that there are many faiths on this planet, and one is not more important or special over another.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 02:23 by MacG @85.97.74.154 : -
@Sarah my point was that these events are not completely about publishing cartoons. That's why I talked about so many topics. I guess I failed to make that point.

West sees East as evil and East sees West as evil. And they both have points in their arguments. The fact that you see one side as good the other is evil is wrong.

P.S If you flipped your evil and good sides I could bring a lot of arguments about how wrong you still are...None of the sides are good or evil.
It's alright if you don't want to debate over it.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 02:30 by vibrani : Polarities
is a huge part of the problem. Why do people need to be polarized?  


7 Feb 2006 @ 02:34 by MacG @85.97.74.154 : vibrani
The source is Koran.It tells about other prophets lives in Koran.
So you have to believe in them.It is stressed that Mohammed is just a messenger and a creature of god.Nothing more.

Hadis (hadith) is Mohammed's words and they are not like Koran.There are so many
books on Hadiths and since they have been written by people who lived centuries after Mohammed all of them are not considered as let's say "original" The general rule to check about a Hadith is to look in the Koran and if Koran backs it up then it is clean.(that is of course very open to subjective interpretations)  



7 Feb 2006 @ 02:38 by vibrani : Yes I know
I've read the Koran, and yet Jews and Christians and Buddhists are murdered in Allah's name. I read what it says about Jews in the Koran, and how to treat what Muslims consider to be infidels. Tell me that's not true and you're in denial. I'd quote the exact text but the book is now stored away in a closet, not easy to get to at the moment.

All religions have punished and killed in the name of their God. I say, enough.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 02:45 by respect @68.100.128.184 : to vibrani
i agree with MacG, i just read ur article, and really, we view Jesus as a prophet just as Mohammad was, we view Moses the same way, Abraham the same way, Adam and Eve the same way, Noah the same way. In Islam, we treat women with utmost respect, it is said that a male, as he walks next to a women, should bow his head in honor, and also to never, EVER, even think of lust. This, of course, goes against the terrorist groups who dont believe so. But whos the better source, Hamas or the Koran? In the Koran there is a whole chapter called "Women" (Nisa'). Dont believe me, read it. It outlines the fact that women deserve respect as much as the man.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 02:46 by vibrani : Oh please
no one believes that about how women are respected in Muslim nations. Get real. If women were respected, they'd have equal rights, not treated as property. You do NOT want to start arguing with me on this topic, I assure you. Let it go.

Now, where is all that respect and how is it shown to the non-Muslim world, too?  



7 Feb 2006 @ 02:48 by respect @68.100.128.184 : vibrani
in the name of Allah? i consider the people who kill in God's name insignifican peices of crap, coz they dont know what their talking about! you need to understand, MUSLIMS DO NOT KILL IN THE NAME OF ALLAH. terrorists do. people with mis-interpreted messages do. not muslims. no way.

and Jews in the Koran are "people of the book" and of all religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam should be respected. We believe all books came and were inspired from God.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 02:49 by vibrani : Respect
the terrorists are Muslims, maybe not the same kind of Muslim as you are, but Muslims. That is exactly what I've said for years - it is interpretation, and that the extremists have hijacked Islam, and Muslims everywhere should be doing something about that. Instead, these extremists are running the show for you.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 02:50 by Sarah @82.123.134.61 : MacG
Frankly, I fail to see any 'good' in Islam or in Nazism... and I reinterate that these two ideologies are for me very similar are equally twisted and criminal.
Note that I say nothing about Germans or Arabs... I do not judge people on their ethnicity but on what they believe in and on the choices they make, which is the only fair way... and it's not about East vs West at all.
... and you have to be at least two to have polarities, so being tolerant toward people who aren't is not only stupid, it's criminal... someone above quoted Thomas Mann "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil" and I fully agree with that.

... but as I don't want to spend the whole night here, I'll gracefully let you have the last word :)

(I have a dynamic IP btw, please don't start about me being someone else, etc... :) )  



7 Feb 2006 @ 02:50 by respect @68.100.128.184 : vibrani
People from different races are equal as well. how come africans were slaves? not in all countries are women treated like that. Black and White people did not have equal rights. are they equal? definitely. It is governments, it is totalaristic regimes, it is dictators who take women's rights. Not the religion. Big difference.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 02:53 by respect @68.100.128.184 : i agree
i agree with you vibrani, our religion is being talked by terrorists. No peaceful muslims such as i or the billion around the world has stood up. Trust me, id give up anything to see the next "martin luther king jr" figure to come up and stand up for whats right. and that is peace and equality.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 02:53 by vibrani : I don't agree
it is religion, culture and sometimes governments - but those reflect beliefs. If you want to know about slavery, you have to go way back in time to understand why that began, starting with the Anunnaki.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 02:54 by MacG @85.97.74.154 : vibrani
People are also murdered in petrols name or in patriotisms name in the world.
you are talking about1400 years ago when there weren't even a western civilisation if you go back in the history you'll see worse things done by Christianity.
I am a muslim I live in a muslim country I have christian friends & family members, infidel friends and family members and everybody has two arms two legs and a head. Nothing is chopped off or amputated. That sounds like an urban legend/stereotypical misconception of Islam in the WEST.
I have never been in a situation as to whether check Koran what it says I should do to a Jew. I have Jew friends too by the way.
But I tell you straight If Koran says "If you see a jew kill him" Then I am in denial and I am not a Muslim.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 02:54 by respect @68.100.128.184 : reply
i too am not going to stay up all night guys, so have a nice day everyone. Fun hearing other people's sides. Vibrani, good site. This gives a chance to everyone to talk peacefully. Thanks alot for your time.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 02:55 by vibrani : Okay, so
what prevents the peaceful, or moderate Muslims, from having a stronger, louder voice? Fear of death? I posted articles about Sheikh Palazzi, and do you know what? Muslims here said he was a liar! So, there seems to be few people willing to allow for peace.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 02:56 by vibrani : Laila tov, Sarah
todah rabah. Thanks, Respect.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 03:03 by MacG @85.97.74.154 : about slavery
I know that religion was used actively to justify slavery.
Especiallly the biblical story of Noah and Ham.

briefly Noah got drunk Ham saw him naked and when Noah woke up he put a curse on Canaan (Hams son)

Now ham was said to be dark skinned(not Canaan) So it was interpreted as Canaan had black roots and was cursed so black people are not in the same level with the Whites. Let's enslave them.

Now that's not bible's fault or Christianitys fault. It's the people who twisted it. Same with fundamentalist muslims today.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 03:13 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : No double standard,Satire is free speech
Mac G: Your comment about Drew Carey Show dropping jokes and american political correctness, does not apply to Europe, and Britain were you still can make satirical jokes, freely, about anyone including royal family (Remember Spitting Image making fun of Reagan and Royalty? and Allo Allo making fun of french?

Don't even try to say there is a double standard because there isn't. In arab countries christians and jews and converts from muslim faith are persecuted:


The danish cartoons are not the horrible fake ones that were circulating in and inciting ignorant people along with fundamentalists.
The cartoons were innocent enough: here is all 12 of them with explanations:

1. The Islamic star and crescent partially symbolizing the face of Muhammad; his right eye is the star, the crescent surrounds his beard and face.

2. Muhammad with a bomb in his turban, with a lit fuse and the Islamic creed written on the bomb. This drawing is considered the most controversial of the twelve.

3. Muhammad standing in a gentle pose with a halo in the shape of a crescent moon. The middle part of the crescent is obscured, revealing only the edges which resemble horns.

4. An abstract drawing of crescent moons and Stars of David, and a poem on oppression of women "Profet! Med kuk og knald i låget som holder kvinder under åget!". In English the poem could be read as: "Prophet you crazy bloke! Keeping women under yoke"

5. Muhammad as a simple wanderer, in the desert, at sunset. There is a donkey in the background.

6. A nervous caricaturist, shakingly drawing Muhammad while looking over his shoulder.

7. Two angry Muslims charge forward with sabres and bombs, while Muhammad addresses them with: "Rolig, venner, når alt kommer til alt er det jo bare en tegning lavet af en vantro sønderjyde" (loosely, "Relax guys, it's just a drawing made by some infidel South Jutlander". South Jutland as reference would for a dane connote the feeling of something like the middle of nowhere).

8. An Arab-looking boy in front of a blackboard, pointing to the Farsi chalkings, which translate into "The editorial team of Jyllands-Posten is a bunch of reactionary provocateurs". The boy is labelled "Mohammed, Valby school, 7.A", implying that this is a second-generation immigrant to Denmark rather than the founder of Islam. On his shirt is written "Fremtiden" (the future).

9. Another drawing shows Muhammad prepared for fight with a short sabre in one hand and a black bar censoring his eyes. He is flanked by two women in niqaabs, having only their wide open eyes visible. The subtle joke would be that if subtracting what is visible of the women with what is visible of Mohammed - nothing would be left.

10. Muhammad standing on a cloud, greeting dead suicide bombers with "Stop Stop vi er løbet tør for Jomfruer!" ("Stop, stop, we have run out of virgins!"), an allusion to the promised reward to martyrs.

11. Another shows journalist Kåre Bluitgen, wearing a turban with the proverbial orange dropping into it, with the inscription "Publicity stunt". In his hand is a child's stick drawing of Muhammad. The proverb "an orange in the turban" is a Danish expression meaning "a stroke of luck", here the added publicity for the book.

12. And in the centre:

A police line-up of seven people wearing turbans, with the witness saying: "Hm... jeg kan ikke lige genkende ham" ("Hm... I can't really recognise him"). Not all people in the line-up are immediately identifiable. They are: (1) A generic Hippie, (2) politician Pia Kjærsgaard, (3) possibly Jesus, (4) possibly Buddha, (5) possibly Muhammad, (6) a generic Indian Guru, and (7) journalist Kåre Bluitgen, carrying a sign saying: "Kåres PR, ring og få et tilbud" ("Kåre's public relations, call and get an offer")  



7 Feb 2006 @ 03:15 by MacG @85.97.74.154 : good night
One last thing before I go to sleep:)
Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia in 1964 said:
Noah saw fit to discriminate against Ham's descendents.

He was talking against civil rights act of 1964
So it wasn't that long ago.

Thanks and good night or day.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 03:42 by vibrani : MacG
I'm talking about way further back than the story of Noah and Ham. When the Anunnaki used the Lulus as slaves.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 03:48 by vibrani : Anon
thanks for the translations.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 04:48 by Boni @70.24.142.232 : Cartoon Controversy
I believe that these cartoons are simply the spark that lit the keg of dynamite.

No I am not Muslim. I am Canadian Aboriginal.

I cannot speak for the Muslim community. But I can speak from a community that is regularly slagged, treated with disrespect, portrayed as violent, homeless drunks who cannot raise their own children, misunderstood, had atrocities committed upon it and used as the butt of North American jokes and Hollywood westerns.

Eventually, one blows. The daily grinds against a human are cumulative. Sooner or later, a lifetime and often, generations of rage can surface.

A classic example in our case is the tomahawks, war whoops etc by the fans of the Cleveland Indians. In this day and age how would anyone feel about a nun passing out communion wafers at a game by the Roaring Catholics? Yet we are told we are being 'sensitive', 'it's all in good fun' etc.

If the media continues to portray Muslims as terrorists then it is only natural human response that some people will respond in ways that reflect that image, after a lifetime of bigoted misunderstanding. It is unfortunate, but it is, reality. If I kick my dog long enough, one day I will be putting on my boots while petting her and she will bite me--because she doesn't know when the next blow will fall.

These cartoons were a powder spark and the keg is going up. The reason the whole world is reacting so strongly is because if these cartoons create Muslim rage that unites all of their nations--there are enough Muslims in this world to overrun Euro-American civilization. And that scares people. That fear is causing blindness that they cannot see the trend of hostilities the Muslims have been subjected to the past few years and historically, since The Crusades.

Do I approve of the violence? Certainly not--on EITHER side. I do, however, understand it. And that until Euro-American media stops collectively libelling the Muslim community during a time when some of their people have been invaded by the U.S. we can expect more incidents.

There is a reason for the old saying "Do not kick a dog when it's down"...  



7 Feb 2006 @ 05:12 by Peace loving hippy @193.133.200.55 : For Ahmed the boycott genius
Hi Ahmed, these boycott sanctions will really hit Denmark hard if all the Muslims stop buying Danish bacon....  


7 Feb 2006 @ 05:51 by vibrani : The Danish government apologized
what more do you want? You can't turn back the clock.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 06:17 by canadian @132.206.94.217 : settle down.
I love you all... whether you be muslim, christian, athiest, etc. Some of the comments on this site are completely disgusting and indiciative of why there is confusion and hatred to begin with. Stop the ignorant slander. Respect one another.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 06:21 by Ash @193.188.80.67 : why not
good pictures and i am with you. fuck moslims. fuck mohammad  


7 Feb 2006 @ 06:33 by David McAlister @70.26.146.78 : Alas the two sides have blinders on.....
My 6 Perspectives:

First: Commentary is good and necessary. Whether political or religious in topic, and in whatever form, it is meant as a seed for people's thought processes. It should not be constrained less certain facts, people and issues be swept under the rug. Open, healthy debate encourages understanding as well as increased transparency. Things fester in the dark.

Second: I believe that there is much misinterpretation in the world. I believe that many muslims likely misunderstood the point of some of the cartoons. In a similar vane I would argue that the west's understanding of the Muslim world is lacking and that it may not appreciate their perspective entirely.

Third: I think that the time bomb/turban picture is a very telling and sad image. Look at it outside the fact that Mohammed is in it. Devorse onself from it and think of it as a Muslim person, any Muslim. What that cartoon says is that Muslims want to cause death and destruction. That is how a good portion of the western world views the Muslim world - barbaric bombers. Muslims should be worried about how they have been stereotyped, because it is an injustice and can only serve to harm them. Now, I personally have Muslim friends and am quite aware that this is a stereotype perpetuated by only a few. Unfortunately, those few make the headlines in the media in the west all the time amidst, you guesses it, boms and explosions. We don't see the other side of Muslims. Include the symbolic Mohammed back in the picture. In this case I believe Mohammed was used as a symbol for the religion. Put the two together and you have an age old issue. Yes, even the Catholics (the Crusades) have had issues with it. The turban bomb on top of Mohammed is really saying that religion, Muslim religion, is being used as a scapegoat for killing people and destroying things. That is a valid adn good commentary to make.

Four: Violence, burning emassies, killing people. You can't tell me that any deity would pardon anyone for taking someone's life, etc. It's weak, ignorant, immoral and causes the death cycle to perpetuate. Killing someone in this case would be like idoltry because of what is says about Mohammmed, exactly what is not supposed to happen. Listen to your deity. Did he say pick up an AK47 and a molotov cocktail and go wreak havoc. That is a blasphemous use of any religion.

Five: The cartoons were the ignition source for the gas that has been pressurizing for some time. You name it, U.S. actions in the middle east, oil issues, poverty, lack of education and lack of jobs, have all conspired to make the situation extremely tense at best in the Middle East. It will only get worse when the oil and gas run out. The wealth difference between the west and middle east will gro further and create an even more fractious environment of have's and have not's.

Six: Where should the Muslim's anger/energy be directed? From my stance, first it is their government and religious leaders that could allow them to prosper if their societies were more effectively run. It doesn't have to be a democracy, but corruption, rights and safety must be controlled. Second, act adult like with other nations. No bombs or guns or swords. Communication will work best in the end. Don't try the heavy handed approach like the Americans - they don't win points with people overseas.

Hopefully, people have learned something from this event.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 08:31 by bora @81.213.122.86 : you know the subject 2
David McAlister, If you knew who Mohammed is, you wouldn't accept that bomb figured on top of his head. The only thing I can do now is to weep, that is all. Someone insulted my beliefs under the shield of freedom of speech.
I think:
If a person cannot say that Hitler is not wrong, he can't draw Mohammed like that too. If you defend tolerence to all ideas, tolerate all ideas, or stop pretending to defending it.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 08:34 by bora @81.213.122.86 : you know the subject 3
The article is taken from:
[link]
Thank you west, now I really know what you are.


Countries That Have Abolished or Have Not Recently Applied

Laws Prohibiting Insult to Religious Belief: Czech Republic, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and the United States

In some European countries, blasphemy laws have been repealed entirely. In Sweden, the general law of blasphemy was abolished in 1949 and a narrower crime of religious insult was abolished in 1970.

In the Czech Republic, the concept of the crime of blasphemy is unknown in the legal order. The Czech Republic has only Criminal Code Section § 198 (No 140/1961 Coll of Law) which provides that insults to the nationality, race or conviction of a group of inhabitants of the Republic can be punished by up to one year of imprisonment. There are (currently no/never any?) cases under this section concerning religious conviction. We are aware of one currently pending case involving song lyrics claimed to be insulting to the Roma minority.

In Denmark, while a law prohibiting blasphemy exists under Section 140 of the Danish Penal Code, it has not been used since 1938. The Danish Penal Code also contains a provision (Section 266b) against expressions that threaten, deride or degrade on the grounds of race, colour, national or ethnic origin, belief or sexual orientation. That provision, however, has never been used against statements offensive to religion. In 1984 a local art club asked an artist, Jens Jørgen Thorsen, to create a "happening" on the wall of the local railway station. The work displayed a naked Jesus with an erect penis. The work caused considerable controversy, and was eventually removed, but no legal charges were ever brought. In 1992, a film made by the same artists was shown in cinemas all over Denmark. The film portrayed Jesus as sexually active and the clergy as corrupt. Though the film caused debate, no legal measures were taken and no charges were laid.

In Norway, Section 142 of the Penal Code provides the possibility of punishment for any person who "publicly insults or in an offensive manner shows contempt for any religious creedor for the doctrines or worship of any religious community lawfully existing here." However, this provision has not been applied by the courts since 1936, when an author, Arnulf Øverland was acquitted under this provision. More recently, several Muslim leaders brought a lawsuit against the Norwegian publisher of "Satanic Verses", but withdrew it, apparently in recognition of the fact that they had virtually no chance of success.

Indeed, In Norway, the abolition of Section 142 is being debated. The removal of that section from the penal code is suggested in a report commissioned by the Norwegian Department of Culture in 1993 entitled "New Threats against Freedom of Information in the Nordic Countries - Diagnosis and Suggestions". The Report suggests that "this law implies an unacceptable encroachment on freedom of expression."

In the United States, blasphemy laws have uniformly been struck down as unconstitutional under the First Amendment guarantee of freedom of speech. While blasphemy statutes and ordinances were generally upheld in earlier state court cases, the U.S. Supreme Court effectively brought an end to blasphemy proceedings in the United States with its decision in Joseph Burstyn, Inc v. Wilson, 343 U.S. 495 (1952). In that case the State of New York banned the showing of a film by the Italian producer/director Roberto Rossellini entitled "The Miracle" on the ground that it was "sacrilegious." The film's distributors thereupon brought an action arguing that the statute pursuant to which it was banned was an unconstitutional prior restraint upon freedom of speech. The Supreme Court, in a unanimous decision, agreed with this argument. Justice Clarke explained the Court's reasoning as follows:

In seeking to apply the broad and all-inclusive definition of "sacrilegious" given by the New York Courts, the censor is set adrift upon a boundless sea amid a myriad of conflicting currents of religious views, with no charts but those provided by the most vocal and powerful orthodoxies. New York cannot vest such unlimited restraining control over motion pictures in a censor[U]nder such a standard the most careful and tolerant censor would find it virtually impossible to avoid favouring one religion over another, and he would be subject to an inevitable tendency to ban the expression of unpopular sentiments sacred to a religious minority.

Id. at 504-05. Justice Clarke concluded by observing that, It is not the business of government in our nation to suppress real or imagined attacks upon a particular religious doctrine, whether they appear in publications, speeches or motion pictures.

In a recent civil case the plaintiff sought to enjoin the showing of Martin Scorcese's "The Last Temptation of Christ" on the ground that the film was a defamatory interpretation of the life of Jesus Christ that infringed on his and other believers' constitutional right of freedom of worship and religion. (Nyack v. MCA Inc., 911 F.2d 1082 (5th Cir 1990), cert. denied, 498 U.S. 1087 (1991)). The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, citing Burstyn, affirmed the dismissal of the application. Id. at 1083. The Supreme Court refused to hear the case, allowing the Court of Appeal's decision to stand.









C. Countries Where the Display of Materials Offensive to Religious Beliefs May Be Prohibited Under Certain Circumstances Such as Intent of Publisher and Age of Audience: Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Spain

The use of laws against blasphemy or religious insult is curtailed in many countries by consideration of factors such as the intent to the publisher, the age of the prospective audience, or the likelihood of a breach of the peace.

In Germany, Section 166 of the Criminal Code forbids insults to a religion or "Weltanschauung" (world outlook), publicly or by dissemination of publications. It states:

Whoever publicly or by distribution of printed materials insults religious belief or Weltanschauung of others in manner that reasonably could be expected to disturb public peace, is subject to[punishment]

The same applies to persons who publicly insult a church or other association devoted to a religion or Weltanschauung.

For an insult to be punishable under this law "the manner and content" of the insult must be such that an objective onlooker could reasonably apprehend that the insult would disturb the peace of those who share the insulted belief. (Court of Appeal of Celle, Neue Juristische Wochenschrift, 1986, p. 1275.) Moreover, to be convicted, an offender must intend or at least be aware that his or her action constituted an offence. In applying Section 166 to a work of art, the freedom of art as guaranteed by Article 5(3) of the Basic Law must be taken into account[6].

Although the Federal Constitutional Court has not issued a judgment dealing specifically with the freedom of art vis-a-vis the freedom of religious beliefs, various penal courts have done so. For example, in a 1981 case, the Penal Court of Appeal of Cologne held that a caricature with words of Maria and Josef, dealing with faecal issues and abortion, did not in all circumstances show hostility against Christians (Neue Juristische Wochenschrift 1982, p. 657). In a 1985 case, the Court of Appeal of Karlsruhe ruled that a printed article which dealt sarcastically with the Last Supper did not constitute an insult. (Neue Strafrechtszeitung 1986, pp. 363 ff.) In 1988, the Penal Court of Bochum held that a leaflet, even if an insult, which addressed "the Vatican and fascism" and included caricatures, was not of a character to disturb the peace. In considering cases involving religious insult, German courts most likely would not prohibit such displays so long as the viewing was limited to adults who had been informed in advance of the nature and contents of the material.

In the Netherlands, blasphemy is a criminal offence under the Penal Code Article 147 (introduction and sub 1 Wetboek van Strafrecht), but this provision only covers expressions concerning God, and not saints and other revered religious figures ("godslastering"). Further, the criminal offence of blasphemy has been interpreted to require that the person who makes the expression must have had the intention to be "scornful" ("smalend"). This is a stricter test than normally is applied to the intent of the defendant. (Hazelwinkel-Suringa, H.D. Tjeenk Willink, Alphen aan den Rijn, 1979, p. 163). Thus, even if it were objectively foreseeable that people would be aggrieved, and those people actually were aggrieved, there is no offence if the speaker did not have the intent to be scornful.

This intent requirement was confirmed in one of the very few blasphemy cases in the Netherlands. An established Dutch writer, Gerard Kornelis van het Reve, represented God in a novel as a donkey. Moreover, the storyteller contemplated having sexual intercourse with the animal. In 1968, the Hoge Raad (the highest appellate court) acquitted the author because it was not proven that his aim was to be scornful. (Hoge Raad 2 April 1968, NJ 1968 no 373).

In France, while there is no law against blasphemy, Article 283 of the Penal Law proscribes the showing of a film contrary to good morals, ("contraires aux bonnes moeurs"). Apparently, no film has ever been prosecuted under this provision, and furthermore, the new penal code (in force from 1 March 1994) contains no such provision (except concerning minors). In a 1988 case, several groups asked the court to ban the showing of Martin Scorcese's "The Last Temptation of Christ". The court rejected this application, noting that the right to respect for beliefs should not interfere in an unjustified manner with artistic creativity. In upholding the lower court's decision, the Court of Appeal ordered that all advertisements for the film should include an announcement that the film was based on a novel and not upon the Gospel. (Cour d' appel de Paris, 28 September 1988.)

The French Code of Civil Procedure, which permits courts by way of expedited procedure to order preventative measures to limit imminent damage or to stop trouble which is manifestly illegal, has been used to place certain limits upon the advertising of films. For example, in 1984, before the showing of the Jean-Luc Goddard film "Ave Marie", the advertising posters showed a naked crucified woman (a scene that did not appear in the film). Several Catholic associations asked the Court to withdraw the use of the posters because they considered them to be an outrage to Catholic values. The Court ordered the withdrawal of the posters, emphasising that the representation of the cross in this manner and under these conditions could constitute an aggressive and gratuitous intrusion upon individuals who are suddenly confronted, without their consent, to this public advertising display; central to the Court's finding was the fact that the advertisements could be seen by people moving freely in public areas who had not chosen or were not seeking contact with these particular posters. (Tribunal de grande instance de Paris, 23 October 1984, Association Saint Pie V et autres contre Groupement des afficheurs parisiens et autres, D. 1985. 31, upheld on appeal, Cour d' appel de Paris, 26 decembre 1984, D. 1985, 728).

In Belgium, there is no longer a law criminalising blasphemy in general. Article 4 of the Decree of 23 September 1814, which penalised writings and images offensive to religion, was abrogated by the Fundamental Law of 1815 (Constitution of the "Kingdom of the United Netherlands"). Article 144 of the Penal Code does, however, proscribe a very restricted offence of religious insult, by penalizing those who offend the objects of religion in places of religious worship or at public religious celebrations. This provision is inapplicable to offences to religion expressed outside the context of a religious celebration or a place of worship.

Other articles of the Penal Code may be applied to writings, images, paintings, or films defaming religion, in particular, Articles 443-452 which penalize defamation, and Articles 383-386(bis), which penalize public offence to morals and sexuality. These articles have been applied to religious offences. For instance, in 1988, the Court of Appeal of Ghent held that some artists had violated Article 383 by displaying 14 paintings depicting the Stations of the Cross in the middle of the historic centre of Ghent. (Court of Appeal, 2 May 1988, reprinted in D. Voorhoof, Actuele vraagstukken van Mediarecht. Doctrine en jurisprudentie, at 133). The display included very large paintings of Jesus Christ and emphasised his genitals including an erect penis with the use of fluorescent paint. According to the Court, the paintings also depicted all sorts of sexual perversities, such as paedophilia, masturbation, anal sex and sadism. It is important to note, however, that, in finding that the paintings offended good morals, "les bonnes moeurs" - "goede zeden", within the meaning of Article 383 of the Penal Code, the Court emphasised that the paintings were publicly displayed in the middle of the historic centre of the city, and that a large public would inevitably and without their consent have been confronted with these paintings.

Where only consenting and well-informed adults are to be exposed to the material, courts in Belgium are less likely to prohibit the showing of pornographic or blasphemous materials. For example, in a 1991 decision, the Court of Appeal of Brussels held that given the limited nature of the sexual acts depicted, it would not ban images which offended certain individual spectators but which were not offensive to most of the spectators in light of the fact that all of the spectators had consented to see the film. (Court of Appeal of Brussels, 24 April 1991, Journal des Proces, 1991, nr. 195, 30 en J.T., 1992, 15). Likewise, in another case concerning a "peep show" the Court of Appeal of Mons said that the fact that a majority of individuals may find certain images offensive does not mean that other individuals, who may represent a minority, should not be permitted to view them, provided that they are adults who have expressed their willingness to do so. (Court of Appeal Mons, 3 March 1989, J.L.M.B., 1991, 1360).

However, accessibility to the public is not necessarily a determinative factor in Belgium. Under Section 383 (3) of the Penal Code, production, import, possession or distribution of pornographic films is prohibited, and a conviction may stand regardless of whether the materials were presented to, for example, unwitting audiences or minors. (Cass., 15 March 1994, Recente Arresten van het Hof van Cassatie, 1994-1995, 245 and Court of Appeal Antwerp, 24 November 1994, Rechtskundig Weekblad, 1994-1995, 1372).

In Spain, though the crime of blasphemy was abolished in 1988, the Constitutional Court has ruled that the right to freedom of expression, broadly protected by Article 20 of the Constitution, can be subject to restrictions aimed both at the protection of the rights of others as well as at the protection of other constitutionally protected interests. The extent to which "rights of others" may justify a restriction is construed narrowly by the Court; generally speaking, the "other" must be an identified individual whose fundamental rights have been directly affected by the expression.

Although there is no case-law from the Constitutional Court regarding the extent to which the right of freedom of religion could be posited as a ground for restricting freedom of speech, it can be assumed on the basis of prior case-law that another ground, such as the protection of morals, would have to be relied upon to justify a restriction of freedom of expression, for instance in the case of a film offensive to the Catholic Church. The fact that only interested adults are likely to be the audience of a work of art is also a relevant consideration under Spanish law.

In Italy, Articles 402-406 of the Penal Code prohibit offence to the State religion. A lesser offence of "bestemmia" (words insulting to religion) is contained in Article 724. These provisions were thrown into confusion by the law of 25 March 1985 n. 121 (Accordo di Modifica del Concordato Lateranense), repealing the law proclaiming Catholicism to be the official State religion in Italy. Since that time, there has been disagreement concerning whether Articles 402-406 remain in force due to the fact that these provisions concern only insult to the "State religion". Two recent cases have suggested that these provisions are no longer in force and that § 724 does not apply only to the "State religion". (Corte Cost., ord 23 aprile 1987 n. 147 in "Giurisprudenza constituzionale" 1987, I, p. 991 s.)

The use of these provisions have been declining in recent years. Only two cases have been brought concerning the application of these provisions in relation to films since 1985, and both were struck down. (v. sent. Trib. Bologna 27 luglio 1985, imp. Addobbati, in "Cassazione penale" 1987, p 211 s. and v. sent. Trib. Venezia 8 ottobre, imp. Scorsese e altro, in "Foro italiano" 1988, II, c. 705 ss). One concerned the French film "Je vous salue, Marie" and the second concerned "The Last Temptation of Christ". Both cases, brought under § 402, were struck down in view of the 1985 law. In the latter case, the court of first instance had noted that there was no intent to insult.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 09:33 by I @47.152.205.70 : islam
ISLAM=I SHALL LOVE MANKIND  


7 Feb 2006 @ 11:11 by Vegard @129.240.108.244 : missing the point
You're seriously missing the point her. you're mentioning that you don't see how a drawn religious person can't be offensive, I can't help but agree, but that's not the point. muslims are not pissed of because of an offensive drawing it's just the principle that he should not be attempted drawn at all... However, the rage might not be justified, misunderstandings and ignorance is something we all experience from time to time, but I don't go trashing an embassy just because I am offended!  


7 Feb 2006 @ 12:40 by miss_led_uk @82.1.75.71 : Is it just a excuse
Hi i think the world has gone mad!! so too has PC ok so i am sorry to say the muslims are offended by the cartoons and maybe rightly so. Where i live we are affraid to offend so much its gone mad! the banning off piggy banks which have been tradtion are now banned! muslims here spent many years in houses then realised they were urinating towards mecca and yet again it was offentsive so my local council spent millions of pounds turning the toilets round. Racism works both ways here. The guy who dressed up as a suiside bomber who was incidently a crack dealer out on parole. He oppoligised and said he didnt realsie he was being offensive. he expects us to accept his appoligies so why cant muslims eccept the guy who printed the cartoons in the first place. We are tollerant of there religion but cant tollerance work both ways. Now they are probable planning revenge as the banners have said death to they who blashpheme Islam in what form of revenge are they talking about??  


7 Feb 2006 @ 12:45 by gaynor @62.255.32.10 : the mohammed cartoons
personally, I despise all forms of religion, although I am fascinated by its existance and i enjoy researching the origins of religion. It is all so complicated, that I believe all religions diversified from one initial belief. I fail to see why these cartoons are offensive....but then I'm not a burkha-wearing lunatic. I believe in all living together peacefully, but everything has got out of hand, and if muslims hate us non believers so much why don't they all just go home and ignore us? As for the issue in Great Britain....we have a spineless bunch of cretins in power, who have obviously all been offered influential jobs in Brussells when we deign to kick them out. So they're too scared of losing their cushy little numbers to stand up for us british at home.

There is a real danger that naturally law abiding, tolereant people are going to get seriously pissed off whith being second rate citizens in their own country. Our government has promoted "Positive Descrimination", in that if you're a non white british person you can do and have what the hell you want! Viva the Revolution!!  



7 Feb 2006 @ 13:09 by Drew @4.154.19.47 : Wild man
Speaking of the arabs "He shall be a wild ass of a man; His hand shall be against everyman and every mans hand against him" How TRUE!!!  


7 Feb 2006 @ 14:48 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : No Double Standard
Bora, thats not true.

In Norway and Denmark you truly have free speech. You can also say that "Hitler did no wrong" there, too. Although, you can get in trouble for killing people's character with lies. So if you in the process of saying Hitler did no wrong are caught in outright lies that can be proven in a court of law, you are moving into murky waters.


So, Bora, you see, there is no double standard, and I am sick of dishonest comparisons you just made to justify restricting free speech.

The religious christian fanatics in Norway have been pushing for years on blasphemy laws and restriction of free speech, much like what George Bush and their ilk in the US want to do to the first amendment. So, I bet these ugly forces thrive and relish at the opportunity the Islamo-fascists are providing.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 15:01 by Josh @66.28.165.8 : Double Standard
All of these radical muslims should be locked up. I read today that the Iranian newspaper is holding a contest to see who can draw the best holocaust cartoon. The Iranian's along with every other arab state newspaper runs cartoons depiticting jews and christians along with their religious dieties in a negative way almost every day. You don't see christians and jews outside arab state embasy's throwing rocks and fire bombs. The muslim reaction is outrageous. These fanatical imams are attempting to start a religous would war. Our world leaders need to develop energy plans so that we no longer rely on the arabs for oil. Then we can tell them to fuck themselves.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 15:20 by Ahmed @195.229.242.52 : FUCK ALL THE NON-MUSLIM
god bliss our be loved prophet mohammed, god protected you while you were alife from those fucking un-human people, and he will protect your holeness while you are dead, unfortunatly that these animales are still alife and breathing air, prophet mohammed god bliss you while you are alife and bliss you while you are dear, we all love you we all love you, you are the one who tought us and tought the humenity how to respect people, and how to treat others, you tought us what the real life means, the real respect menas, while those who did not know you still living in dark ages, like animales, lossing thier mind while drinking alcohol, sexual disease spreding in thier fucking countries, look what they do in Gwantanmo, and they said that Muslim are turrorest, look what they are doing in Abo Ghraib jail in iraq and they still said that we are turrorest, look what they did in Vitnam, Heroshima, Nakazaki, look what they did Palestine, and they still believe that we are turrorst..... You see they are living in dark ages.......
they claim that they are human, but any wise people know that they are not,
what do you want you idiots by drowing these pics, you are not muslims you idiots so keep your failthy hands away form the puority of islam ...... keep your failthy mouth away from our be loved Prophet mohammed.
we muslims ready to secrefice by our self to protect you Mohammed, we are ready to secrefice by our kids by our family, by our wilth to protect you Mohammed.
please god, we all pray to you to kill the pastereds, to kill those fucking non-human non-muslim peoples,
one last world from a man who love his prophet mohammed
GO TO HILL YOU FUCKING PASTEREDS  



7 Feb 2006 @ 15:23 by gls @212.33.117.247 : peace
. THE EMBODIMENT OF TAO
Even the finest teaching is not the Tao itself.
Even the finest name is insufficient to define it.
Without words, the Tao can be experienced,
and without a name, it can be known.

To conduct one's life according to the Tao,
is to conduct one's life without regrets;
to realize that potential within oneself
which is of benefit to all.

Though words or names are not required
to live one's life this way,
to describe it, words and names are used,
that we might better clarify
the way of which we speak,
without confusing it with other ways
in which an individual might choose to live.

Through knowledge, intellectual thought and words,
the manifestations of the Tao are known,
but without such intellectual intent
we might experience the Tao itself.

Both knowledge and experience are real,
but reality has many forms,
which seem to cause complexity.

By using the means appropriate,
we extend ourselves beyond
the barriers of such complexity,
and so experience the Tao.

Up to Index

2. LETTING GO OF COMPARISONS

We cannot know the Tao itself,
nor see its qualities direct,
but only see by differentiation,
that which it manifests.

Thus, that which is seen as beautiful
is beautiful compared with that
which is seen as lacking beauty;
an action considered skilled
is so considered in comparison
with another, which seems unskilled.

That which a person knows he has
is known to him by that which he does not have,
and that which he considers difficult
seems so because of that which he can do with ease.
One thing seems long by comparison with that
which is, comparatively, short.
One thing is high because another thing is low;
only when sound ceases is quietness known,
and that which leads
is seen to lead only by being followed.
In comparison, the sage,
in harmony with the Tao,
needs no comparisons,
and when he makes them, knows
that comparisons are judgements,
and just as relative to he who makes them,
and to the situation,
as they are to that on which
the judgement has been made.

Through his experience,
the sage becomes aware that all things change,
and that he who seems to lead,
might also, in another situation, follow.
So he does nothing; he neither leads nor follows.
That which he does is neither big nor small;
without intent, it is neither difficult,
nor donᇘŮwi?? e��e.��r ଯ> His task completed, he then lets go of it;
seeking no credit, he cannot be discredited.
Thus, his teaching lasts for ever,
and he is held in high esteem.

Up to Index

3. WITHOUT SEEKING ACCLAIM

By retaining his humility,
the talented person who is also wise,
reduces rivalry.

The person who possesses many things,
but does not boast of his possessions,
reduces temptation, and reduces stealing.

Those who are jealous of the skills or things
possessed by others,
most easily themselves become possessed by envy.

Satisfied with his possessions,
the sage eliminates the need to steal;
at one with the Tao,
he remains free of envy,
and has no need of titles.

By being supple, he retains his energy.
He minimizes his desires,
and does not train himself in guile,
nor subtle words of praise.
By not contriving, he retains
the harmony of his inner world,
and so remains at peace within himself.

It is for reasons such as these,
that an administration
which iᇘŮco??er��d  



7 Feb 2006 @ 16:11 by MacG @85.99.47.186 : Ahmed's post
Your post is as offensive as the cartoons in most islamic understanding.
You speak of Mohammed and then curse and wish death to non-muslims.
If you understood Mohammed you wouldn't use his name and curse words in the same sentence.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 16:57 by A Dane @86.52.105.106 : Cartoons
There is no freedom of speech in those Arab countries where the demonstrations and public outrage are being staged. The reason many people flee to Europe from these places is precisely because they have criticized religion, the political establishment and society. Totalitarian Islamic regimes are in a deep crisis. Globalization means that they're exposed to considerable change, and they also fear the reformist forces developing among emmigrants in the West. They'll use threatening gestures against the West, and the success they achieve with their threats, to intimidate these people.

In 1980, privately owned British broadcaster ITV aired a documentary about the beheading of a Saudi Arabian princess who had allegedly committed adultery. The government in Riyadh intervened and the British government issued an apology. We saw the same kowtowing response in 1987 when (Dutch comedian) Rudi Carrell derided (Iranian revolutionary leader) Ayatollah Khomeini in a comedy skit (that was aired on German television). In 2000, a play about the youngest wife of the Prophet Mohammed, titled "Aisha," was cancelled before it ever opened in Rotterdam. Then there was the van Gogh murder and now the cartoons. We are constantly apologizing, and we don't notice how much abuse we're taking. Meanwhile, the other side doesn't give an inch.

The cartoons should be displayed everywhere. After all, the Arabs can't boycott goods from every country. They're far too dependent on imports. And Scandinavian companies should be compensated for their losses. Freedom of speech should at least be worth that much to us.

Not a day passes, in Europe and elsewhere, when radical imams aren't preaching hatred in their mosques. They call Jews and Christians inferior, and we say they're just exercising their freedom of speech. When will the Europeans realize that the Islamists don't allow their critics the same right? After the West prostrates itself, they'll be more than happy to say that Allah has made the infidels spineless.
Muslims must realize that it was human beings who wrote the holy scriptures. After all, most Christians don't believe in hell, in the angels or in the earth having been created in six days. They now see these things as symbolic stories, but they still remain true to their faith.

Your mosque's here in the West are used as a save haven for fanatic radical imams. Not a day passes, in Europe and elsewhere, when radical imams aren't preaching hatred in their mosques. I never understood why all these Muslims are here if they hate us so much, and why should we change our values to satisfy them, if you don’t like the smell in the bakery go home.
Also the Muslims must realize that it was human beings who wrote the Holy Scriptures. After all, most Christians don't believe in hell, in the angels or in the earth having been created in six days. They now see these things as symbolic stories, but they still remain true to their faith. The rhetoric Muslims are using when having a “peaceful” demonstration is horrific, wake up! You are centuries behind.
Its about time you Muslims with a more moderate view stand up and kick the fanatic out of your community, nothing will change before that happen.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 17:21 by nicholas @70.29.37.81 : the cartoons
i believed that the terrorists were the radical arm of the Muslim faith akin to any other over the top religious fanatic. I stand corrected. Muslims worldwide that do not decry the violence, that take this too seriously are indeed insane. They scare the crap out of me for want of a better phrase.
Grow up. Join the real and modern world. I truly believe in freedom of religion and freedom of expression.
Muslim= hater in my opinion. No different than any other racist radical group that sparks disgust in civilized and tolerant people.
Mohammed himself would have laughed at the cartoons. they are satire. Mohammed would never incite such violent and assenine behaviour from his followers.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 17:22 by Hana @203.101.108.27 : The best solution - spare us
People like Ahmed, living in their own crazy world with severly infected brain with fundamental interpretation of Kuran should really move out of all non-muslim countris and join their brothers, potenial shahids who will "live" happily ever after blowing themselves up - so please, lets make it simple, you go back to your muslim countries and stay there and we will not come there. i am sure you would find a way with all that explosive to divide the planned and all the bridges that exists between YOU and other normal people who are to busy working and paying tax which eventually ends up as humaniatarian or development assistance to non-developed muslim countries (among others) so you can get free food and clothing while you are having more time to learn more about how to destroy the hand that feeds you.
You have tunred islam into the most hated religion in the world - it went to such extend that normal decent muslim people are ashamed to even mention thay are muslims out of fear of being "branded" as followers of the most violent religion...what has happened to you all???!!! if you prefer to die - pls just kill youself immediately - if its going to mkae you happy..we will aslo be happy..one less danger for our children...or simply go and read again and again Kuran...untill you get it right and learn to love not hate, respect that other people are not thinking like you..
Hana from India  



7 Feb 2006 @ 17:30 by GOD @86.128.8.140 : Cartoons
The cartoons are just a bit of fun. Its alright for muslims to poke fun at other religions, persecute other religions, blow up innocent people, kill and murder in the name of the Koran, chop of limbs persecute women!!!!!!!!!!!!!
However when someone draws a cartoon its insulting their prophet. Don't these people understand that muslims have managed to insult their own religion more than anyone from any faith could ever do!!!!

A few cartoons are not going to insult GOD. Killing, murdering maiming is a direct insult to GOD. If a muslim can't understand that then shame on you who calls him/her self muslim.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 17:54 by matt @24.127.142.244 : cartoons
i don't see anything all the offensive, i believe there was a art museum, which have Crucifix laying in container of urine, did you see the christians rioting and burning? The muslins will use any reason to vent their hatred of jews and western world. Why would iran ask for cartoons of jews in response, jewish people did not publish any of these cartoons. i know nothing about mohammed, other than thousands of innocent men women and children are kill in the name allah and mohammed is his prophet. The muslin people are directly responsible for letting there good religion be hijacked by these sick extremists.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 18:10 by amin @217.139.66.36 : Cartoons
my name is amin and i m a new muslim i was hindu befor.now i m doing research on islam and the west.
i like to say something here
befor talk about someone try do search on it plz.because if u gona throw one rock they will throw more rocks

“what the purpos of muslim in this world”said by editor of time magazine on cnn today at 5:30 hahhah ask ur self what the purpos of u guys …. killing millions of ppl all around the world since 1st world war or before that
wars with every nations comon man u guys even had a war with ur forfathers(england,france etc) killed most of the american natives,90 000 indians in india ,17th century to 19th under the english ruls and ur blaming muslims…..
comon its not the point who started befor 9/11 usama was traind by usa to used him and afgahni against rusia but he find out what kind of ppl u r
and allways talk about muslims and islam …they kill women and chilldren … no we do not kill women if u study islam u ll find out
what about u ppl who killed 40 000 women in europe and america since the darkages to 18th century under the church low,because the prists and thair followers were thinking that those women posess by evil spirits hahhah … oh i m not saying its ur discovery channel saying….
if u wana talk about women and racisims and freedom comon free ur nation first…..y dont u guys have any female president in usa or black man or women hun…
we have female president in muslim cuntries such as pakistan :benezer bangladesh hasina shaikh and in indonesia,india
freedome of spech right…hun if we says something about usa or jew its called antiusa right and by the way u ppl killed so many jews not muslims ….
jews were safe in muslims countries befor the took over palstain read read read read the history
comon get a life
lied lied on everythings …nuclear..bombs terorits where r those WMD and USAMA bin laden or usama bin usa(uncle sam) hahah
and its not i guy publish the cartoon its repeat over and over again in all over europe thats y muslims reacts and thas y even usa or any other counrty did not published further in the history of islam we never did publish or draw any pics of jesus or moses forget about cartoons not even single picture..
it was afganistan then iraq now its iran? then syria,pakistan then …. what,where, who is next .. hahah the tarin never be let.
comon ppl think..
by the way saddam was the best friend of america…hahha usama was to…watch out pakistan s president mushraff hahhah
..muslims did not participeted in 1st war world and 2nd but 3rd inshallah muslim will
so before point ur index toward islam study it. try to know it. because knowledge is power.do not just listen from one side(only westren media) try to listen from muslims and other too.
here is the saying in my laungage hindi. do not mess with poor or 3rd world country because once tahir head trun upside down they will mess ur whloe life up side down because tehy ahve nothing to loose except life and honor and u have lost of thing to loose,future plans,space,planets, free world,money money ,all dreams hahha
so plz leave muslims alone and let them believe what they believe and so do muslims too  



7 Feb 2006 @ 18:19 by PETE @68.194.60.212 : muslims
i think its time for all the muslim people who wrote in on this blog
to take back there religion. we all understand how the other feels forget about the cartoon are you serious its a cartoon make it something bigger like a blessing.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 18:26 by A Free Man @64.199.68.241 : FREE PEOPLE
Quote from Ahmed @195.229.242.52 : FUCK ALL THE NON-MUSLIM

“we muslims ready to secrefice by our self to protect you Mohammed, we are ready to secrefice by our kids by our family, by our wilth to protect you Mohammed.
please god, we all pray to you to kill the pastereds, to kill those fucking non-human non-muslim peoples,
one last world from a man who love his prophet mohammed
GO TO HILL YOU FUCKING PASTEREDS “

If this statement that this Ahmed fellow wrote isn’t proof enough that people like this need to be annihilated then I don’t know what is. He just called for the murder of ALL NON MUSLIMS. He also mentioned that he is ready to sacrifice his own children, HIS OWN FAMILY! This man is sick and someone needs to take his children away immediately.

People like this usually get killed or locked up in mental institutions in civilized societies. But what’s extremely disturbing about this person is (and this is based on the assumption that what he typed is honest) that he actually believes what he is saying. People need to realize that America and many other countries are fighting exactly these types of people. They are sick, demented and so very much in need of long term therapy. It’s decades of religious fanaticism being handed down in a highly uneducated culture and it’s leading this world into global World War. Many more people will die and many more will suffer simply because people like this can’t get a grip on reality.

I would like to say just this, has anyone actually seen this Allah? Has anyone seen the after life? Can anyone prove that there is life after death? Can anyone prove that there is a God?

I know this answer and it’s simple, no one can prove any of this. Yet there are people in religions murdering other people because of a mental condition that can’t even prove what they believe is real. Now don’t get me wrong, I have faith and I believe. But for me it’s a journey that I have to take alone and one that each individual will have to face at some point in their life. But do you see me writing anything or anywhere near the lines as this poor Ahmed fellow?

People, that’s the difference between civilized and non civilized. If Ahmed doesn’t change his violent and destructive views to better himself, his family and mankind around him, my belief is that he will face something far worse than what he believes his enemies will face.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 18:41 by BrYan @199.50.29.41 : ?
In the interest of time, I will make this as brief and vague as possible - true to the core none the less.

All things considered, throughout our world and cultures, there is not living today, any culture that has not morally, or respectfully exercised free speech or expression and NOT offended or insulted another culture.

For lack of a better phrase, for the Muslim culture to act holier than thou, and maintain that they have never performed any act of expression that is not deemed insulting, or offending, is completely absurd.

May hypocrisy destroy the credibility of any man or woman who chooses to speak.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 19:00 by Free Man @64.199.68.241 : FREE PEOPLE
Well spoken BrYan  


7 Feb 2006 @ 19:08 by Wit @83.37.238.190 : Yes
In my opinion any religion that tries to justify violence against innocent people is a satanic religion. No exceptions here. Inquisition showed the satanic face of Christianity. What we see today, killings of innocent people who have nothing to do with those cartoons, is the satanic face of Islam.

I must say that until now I've thought that Islam is a peaceful and a very wise religion. All those kids on the streets of Teheran, screaming "Death to Denmark" and what not, is not Islam. I guess the situation is pretty harsh right now in the Middle East. It's not correct though to justify your anger, hatered and violence against innocent people with your religion. The moment you go out and kill a French just because some newspaper editors in that country decided to print those cartoons is just plain idiotic. That person has no influence on any aspect of that situation. At that point you become not worthy of Islam. You're just a murderer who allowed his anger to take over.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 19:21 by Pancho "The pro-ISRAEL mexican" @64.46.176.34 : MUSLIMLAND
To end all this Muslim whining. I propose to invest on a win-win situation.
Like providing our muslim friends some kind of martyr "MUSLIMLAND" somewhere far,far away.
Some land where they can be holy and pure. Some land away from the infidels.
There, they can organize a Mega-party where they can curse at the infidels all they want, with explosives, guns, machine guns, rockets, knives, grenades, Al-jazeerah etc...
Which at the end of the festivities and at the count of three they can simultaneously blow themselves up.
Then everybody will be happy.
We'll have a muslim-free society and
They'll have our most sincere gift: an express ticket with no return to their glorious heaven. How about that?  



7 Feb 2006 @ 19:39 by offworktoday @66.122.241.239 : Mohammed vs. World
The Kids of Teheran, screaming "Death to Denmark" is the work of the person called Mohammed. They follow his teaching and show us his ways. This should be seen as a sign of the times yet to come. First, you get rid of free speech and then--. Freedom may appear idiotic to those that don't appreceiate what it takes to gain and keep it. Freedom has little value to the one that did not earn it. If Freedom is a gift, then who gave it to you? Islam has never been a religion of freedom or peace, at least not until the spin doctors arrived. Personally, they can yell and scream all they what. They can intimidate the world as a jester. I will keep my ears death to insanity and let them fornicate in hypocrisy. When the times comes I will be ready.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 19:41 by Dr. Shred @192.45.72.28 : mohammed cartoons
I read somewhere that when Islam was founded, it spread quickly because Moslems gave you three choices: become a Moslem, give half of your increase per year to Islam, or die. Not much of a choice. You begin to wonder how many Moslems really believe in Islam or feel compelled to believe for fear of being beaten, raped, killed, etc.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken
seriously." --Hubert H. Humphery  



7 Feb 2006 @ 20:04 by ZIM @66.181.92.2 : Muslims, are they ever happy?
you muslims need to keep your anger and hatred and ignorance inside your own borders kill yourselves with your intolerence dont drag other ppl into it I cant wait for the day that we dont need oil anymore muslims will turn from antagonists to beggars

other ppls of the worl will only tolerate your terror and bbaby like pissy attitude about everything for so long.... so just shut up draw your own cartoons of our gods I dont care most likely nobody does... if your god is offended then hell come down and smite us all so until he does that just sit down and shut up  



7 Feb 2006 @ 20:07 by Bill McIntyre @199.127.9.131 : Islam
This problem is as old as Isaac and Ishmael and its never gonna stop. Unless we stop it. Its time. I'm tired of hearing "its just a small fraction of muslims who are terrorists." Its time to wake up and smell the coffee. Take a good look at the paper or tv news. They're all insane, they are all to blame and they all must be held accountable. These clowns have lost their privilege of living in a free society. First, Islam should be outlawed in this country and every mosque shut down and destroyed. An emergent census should be taken of all middle eastern people living in this country... go door to door if you have to. If you are not a citizen, you should be immediately deported. No questions asked. If you are a citizen and it is determined you espouse radical views or propensities, then your citizenship should be stripped and you should be deported. Next, deploy no less than 5 strategic nuclear warheads and carpet bomb the whole damn region. Lets get rid of all these bastards before the whole world goes up in smoke.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 20:37 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : No more holocaust
Bill: That is a horrible thing to say. You are just as horrible as the islam-fascists.

Extremists who threaten with killing should be dealt with through the legal system. Extreme islam-fascists should not be granted citizenship to begin with. There should be a crack down on islam-fascists organizing violence.
And moderate muslims should be given protection from the extremists, so they can express themselves freely without fear of being assassinated by extremists.

We need to secularize society so religion is only a private individual matter that people can freely express but not use to subjugate others.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 20:49 by ZIM @66.181.92.2 : Islam
Bill thanks for that I fully concur with your views... you honestly I really see this whole middle east problem heading for war I mean they are just asking for it who in thier right mind is going to trust a fanatical country like Iran with nuclear weapons any people drawn to violence by a cartoon and has thier finger on the button needs to be pacified... we should just tell the  


7 Feb 2006 @ 20:52 by MacG @85.99.47.186 : to Bill mcintyre and others
So you are defending the freedom of speech by killing all muslims.
Because when the the terrorists kill innocent people you blame islam.
When muslims speak their minds you say they are all insane and you pick every each one of the muslims (like hitler to jews) and kill them and this is your understanding of freedom of speech????  



7 Feb 2006 @ 20:59 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : I do not want to legally ban
I do not want to legally ban extreme opinions as long as they do not threaten people's lives and are not direct lies designed to kill other people's character.

Because I do believe in dialog and confronting uncomfortable opinions with reason and compassion. By including instead of excluding, people can be swayed to become champions for reason and democracy. Banning opinions does not remove them, it only hides them from public scrutiny and prevents dialog from preventing disaster.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 21:00 by Pancho 'the pro-ISRAEL mexican' @64.46.176.34 : Response to Anonymous
Believe me, I see your point Mr. Anonymous. But that's in a Muslim-free world.
These muslims are messing up our society, they won't response well to peaceful actions.
Bill like I am and the rest of us are sick and tired of the ignorance of this people. They have an uncontrollable thirst for violence and murder when things don't go their way.
Desperate times calls for desperate measures....  



7 Feb 2006 @ 21:11 by Sarah @82.123.20.197 : ... no Bill
The World IS headed toward a major war like in the late 30'... because another crazy ideology (Islam) wants to take over the world and exterminate entire peoples and their way of life... and ISSlam won't stop until it has succeded or is destroyed like Nazism.
But, from our side, it won't be a war of extermination against a whole people... it will be a war against an evil and murderous ideology/"religion".

... and it will be a war carried out by soldiers, not by mass murderers just as bad as the muslim ennemy... so forget about the carpet nuclear bombing :)  



7 Feb 2006 @ 21:11 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : What constitutes truth?
Direct lies designed to kill other people's character, constitutes libel and needs to be proven in a court of law, every time it is claimed. This is because the official truth is subject to change any time new facts are revealed.

In many cases the official truth is not based on absolute truth, as different pieces of evidence do not necessary concur with only one theory. In such cases one must accept that there are different opinions as to what the truth is.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 21:11 by MacG @85.99.47.186 : bill and pancho
your NAZI heads don't deserve any kind of freedom.
you should be locked up and be treated...(not killed, therapied)  



7 Feb 2006 @ 21:23 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : For sake of humanity
Pancho, I agree that the Islam-fascist movement must be dealt with in a warlike fashion, but not on the individual level. There are many silent in the masses that are intimidated into silence, who literally are afraid of being killed by extremists. If they say or do something the extremists don't like, they are considered as "fallen from their faith", and dealt with immediately severely unlike the rest of us "infidels" who the extremists will deal with later.

Also, I believe we can win people over by treating individuals according to our principles.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 21:26 by MRS HAGGIS-EATER @62.253.0.11 : enough is enough
That hated Imam Abu Hamza, who incited young brainwashed British muslim boys to murder in the name of Islam has been jailed for 7 years today in Britain, and not before time. Our pathetic government adopted a policy of tolerance for muslims as it seemed terrified of upsetting them. The police did nothing either during their protest march at the weekend when these fanatics were brandishing posters implying "behead everyone who doesn't agree with us." There has been a public outcry and the muslim idiot who dressed as a suicide bomber has now gone back to jail.(He was a drug dealer that only served half of his sentence.) A drug dealer and all the misery that he must have caused lots of people.....what right does he have to be upset about anything like a cartoon? So much for a devoted follower of Islam.
What we want to know is why we're all expected to be so tolerant of these brain-washed savages(and I mean these violent protesters NOT ordinary lawabiding muslims.)We keep being told it's a fanatical minority but from where I'm standing it's anything BUT a minority.
I cannot see how a normal, caring, thinking person could devote his/her life to following a paedophile who promises everlasting sex to suicide bombers in paradise. Dream on. What do the women get by the way? Step into the 21st century as you are about 600 years behind us.
As for being offended, you have NO right whatsoever as many of the other letters will tell you, muslim newspapers regularly ridicule other religions but that's ok isn't it? They bulldozed the giant statue of Buddha to the ground and many other atrocities but that's ok. "We're muslims. We rule the earth(or would like to).We are 100% right and everyone else is an infidel." and what about their sharriah law where a woman can be stoned to death for adultery (yes in the 21st century)! She can also be physically abused and beaten by her husband as that's ok too apparently. What a religion this is. Woman have no say and it's better to make sure that they don't become educated as they might form opinions, and pity help a young muslim girl who falls in love with an infidel.There's always a father, brother, or uncle willing to show her the error of her ways by murdering her.
Offensive cartoons? Don't make me laugh.The one about having run out of virgins, was quite funny if it wasn't so serious.
I see that an Israeli newspaper is publishing them today. That should put a new slant on things once the mediaeval savages start burning the Israeli flag.If even 1 of them burned our flag of Scotland in public I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
My religion is music(it's safer and more fulfilling) and I dread the day when the politically correct tell us that we can no longer play Handel's Messiah as it might offend some muslim or other who could disrupt the concert with a bomb.
I've always embraced Robert Burns' maxim 'a man's a man for a' that' and have never knowingly been racist but enough is enough and I now think that those amongst us who aren't happy with our culture(and all it's flaws, but also all it's freedoms)should leave us in peace, NOW!! Anyway the cartoons were published in September, so why has it taken so long for the muslim brain to get it's head round this and at what point did mohammed decree that every muslim should have a sense of humour bypass?  



7 Feb 2006 @ 21:28 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : Let's fight for reason
MacG: I agree with your disdain for the Nazi mentality.
And I also believe the West should have stood up to Hitler long before Hitler forced the West to fight him.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 21:32 by vibrani : Mark Twain
once said, "The problem with the human race is.....the human race."  


7 Feb 2006 @ 21:32 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : Let's fight for reason again
Mr. Haggis eater. Anyone of any race can be indoctrinated to become anything.

read "Lord of the Flies"
read Orwell's 1984  



7 Feb 2006 @ 21:35 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : Thanks, vibrani
7 Feb 2006 @ 21:32 by vibrani : Mark Twain
once said, "The problem with the human race is.....the human race.

Yes, and it seems to be a race to the bottom, at that.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 21:38 by gaynor @62.255.32.10 : mohammed cartoons
what I don't understand is why the muslim extremists have directed their anger towards the jews. Jews are not christians...they do not believe in jesus christ as a prophet. they say he never existed and that the jesus written about was a fake. i would love to know what exact percentage of the world muslim population are actually protesting. i'm presuming its a small portion......so why doesn't the western world call them out into the open for an all out war? the world is in a mess, and its all down to a couple of works of fiction...the bible and the koran, both of which have their first pages missing, they're the pages which say.."all characters portrayed in this book are entirely fictional"!!!!!!!!!  


7 Feb 2006 @ 21:44 by REHA @81.214.130.185 : WRONG IMAGE
I KEEP TELLING AND INSIST THAT THE IMAGE OF MUSLIMS IN THE WESTERN WORLD IS TOTALLY WRONG. WE HAVE 70 MILLION CITIZENS HERE IN TURKEY AND I DON'T THINK THERE ARE 1000 PEOPLE WHO FALL INTO THE DESCRIPTIONS I HAVE READ ABOVE. MORE THAN 99.99 % OF THE POPULATION ARE QUITE MODERATE,NORMAL PEOPLE LIVING IN PEACE IN A MODERN DEMOCRATIC SECULAR LAW STATE WHERE THERE IS TOTALLY FREE MEDIA AND FREEDOM OF SPEECH. WE HAVE OPEN DISCUSSIONS ON TV , ARTICLES IN PRESS , A LOT OF NOVELS,BOOKS ETC CRITISING THE RELIGION OFFERING NEW DEVELOPMENTS ETC. EVERYBODY IS TOTALLY FREE TO BELEIVE IN WHATEVER HE LIKES AND NOBODY HERE HAS THE RIGHT TO IMPOSE HIS IDEAS (INCLUDING RELIGIOUS ONES) TO ANYONE ELSE OR FORCE HIM FOR SOMETHING ETC. IT IS A MORE MODERN COUNTRY THAN MANY WESTERN COUNTRIES I HAVE BEEN ( I HAVE BEEN IN 48 COUNTRIES OF VARIOUS RELIGIONS WORLDWIDE )

I KNOW THAT AZERI'S AND ALL EX-SOVIET REPUBLICS ARE ALSO QUITE MILD PEOPLE. i HAVE BEEN IN INDONESIA AND THEY ARE ALSO QUITE NICE PEOPLE.I HAVE BEEN IN IRAN AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE I MET WERE QUITE MILD. EXTREMEST WERE ONLY A MINORITY BUT UNFORTUNATELY THEY ARE THE ONES RULING THE COUNTRY. I HAVE GOOD FRIENDS IN MOROCCO AND THEY ALSO HAVE VERY GOOD IMPRESSION ABOUT THAT COUNTRY. THESE EXAMPLES CAN GO ON.

MUSLIM WORLD DO NOT CONSIST ONLY OF ARABS INDEED THEY ARE MINORITY IN THE TOTAL MUSLIM POPULATION. BESIDES EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NOT BEEN THERE I THINK IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT ALL OF THEM ARE RADICAL EXTREMIST. I AM SURE A VERY BIG PERCENTAGE MUST BE MILD PEOPLE AGAIN.

YOU MAY ASK THEN WHO THE HELL ARE THE ONES WHO ARE THE TERRORISTS, BOMBERS ETC. WE ALSO HAVE THE SAME QUESTION SINCE THE FIRST PLACE THEY BOMBED WAS ISTANBUL WHERE THESE ASSHOLES MASSACRED 60 PEOPLE AND CAUSED THOUSANDS OF THEM TO BE INJURED. WHAT ABOUT THAT ? ALL THOSE INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE THE REAL MUSLIMS! THE DEVILS WHO REALIZED THIS MASSACRE ARE CONSIDERED BY US,THE REAL MUSLIMS, AS ASSHOLES TO BURN IN HELL.

I WANT TO REPEAT MY PREVIOUS COMMENT AGAIN :

TO UNDERSTAND WHO IS BEHIND THE SCENE YOU SHOULD EVALUATE WHO IS MAKING THE MOST BENEFIT OUT OF IT. DEFINETLY NOT US !!!!!! YOU SHOULD TRY AND UNDERSTAND THE FUTURE PLANS AND STRATEGIES OF THE BIG BOSS AT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ATLANTIC!  



7 Feb 2006 @ 21:45 by respect @68.100.128.113 : unbelievable
i cant believe it!! im reading all the comments, so much hate! the muslim people that hate are cussing and hoping to kill the non muslims. Then they say they are not a violent religion. The christians/jews/buddhists/athiests that hate want all the muslims dead. then they claim they are the peaceful ones. GUYS, LISTEN TO YOURSELVES. this isnt nazism, this isnt hitler, this isnt anything. this is a few muslims who found this offensive, and due lack of a better way, they are protesting. What else can they do?? suggestion box? my ass people, get real here. i am a muslim and proud, but i do not consider myself the same religion as those extremist bastards who do this dumb shit and want all non muslims killed. That is not the way of our religion, that is the result of brainwashing and mistreatment. its dumb. anyone who really wants to KNOW who their cussing at, cmon guys, read the Koran, read the Bible, read the Torah, look at the similarities! the major similarity is peace. PEACE!! can you believe it? all this war, all this killing, all this violence, and what 99% of religions preach is peace!!!!!!

get real. If no one is harming you personally, then live your life. if someone came to your house and cussed you out, ok go ahead, beat him. but this religion vs. religion thing has got to stop.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 21:46 by Pancho 'the pro-ISRAEL mexican' @64.46.176.34 : to all muslims whining at the USA
Thank God for the USA. I wasn't born here but I came as fast as I could!!!
You muslims never fully appreciate the good things this great country has done for your fellow muslims.
They enjoy real freedom. In the USA they can built all the Islamic temples they want, they can wear all the arab outfits anywhere they want to, they can go anywhere they want to , etc....
Hey, you muslims living in the USA:
If the majority of Muslims are peaceful and love people,
How come you don't use the freedom you enjoy here in the USA and STAND OUT!! Condemn the STUPIDITIES your people are doing all over the world for some stupid innocent cartoons!!!
I know why, deep inside of you, you really support all THIS STUPID HOLY WAR
INFIDELS VS. ISLAM
You're always whining about the USA been a satanic Country.
If you don't like it here get the hell out of here!!!
GOD BLESS THE GOOD OL' USA  



7 Feb 2006 @ 21:48 by respect @68.100.128.113 : exactly, reha
INDEED! in jordan their was a hotel bombing!! DURING A WEDDING. three hotels bombed by so called muslim suicide bombers. SIKE! the real muslims died. anyone ever heard of the "Halloween" movies? the director was arab, and he also directed the movie called "the message" explaining about the prophet Mohammad. He was killed in the attacks. These so called bombs are not made by muslims, they are made by sick sick people. Islam is a religion of peace, i swear to you it is! these are just some bad apples, you always get some in a group. problem is, these people started their own group themselves. No, i do not consider them as muslims.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 21:51 by respect @68.100.128.113 : hey pancho
hey man, dont label us ALL as terrorists. i live in DC, and here there are PLENTY of latin american gangs. to name some, SSL (South Side Locos) and MS (Mara Salvatrucha). i dont think all hispanics are violent, but some certainly are, because every day in the news you hear about someone being stabbed with a machetti from gang violence. Please dont say it is a war against ALL MUSLIMS, shit, im a muslim, and if your fighting terrorists, ill join you.

no disrespect intended.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 21:59 by Avis @164.58.18.227 : Respect is earned, this isn't how
Rioting over drawings is idiocy. Any respect that I may have had for Islam is now gone. They will know we are Christians by our love. How will we know Muslims? By their lack of humor? By the fact that they want to dish it out, but they can't take it? Go ahead, burn a bible. It's just paper and ink, so is the Koran, and so is that Danish newspaper. When the word becomes more important than the mass produced materials it's printed on, then maybe there is hope. Until then, you can stand firm in the fact that God loves all of us... yes, you too! He loves us so much that he sent his only son to die for us that we might come to know him and have eternal life. Jesus, who was humiliated, tortured, and killed is the example that we should be following. Any arguement to the contrary is just not gospel.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 22:02 by Mrs haggis eater @62.253.0.11 : anonymous
yes anyone can become indoctrinated but that doesn't make something right and we don't all have to put up with it. It's MRS not Mr by the way as I am allowed to think for myself being a mere female  


7 Feb 2006 @ 22:21 by reha @81.214.130.185 : panco' s empire
Hey panco. Do not trust your big empire so much. Remember even our empire has collapsed which had lasted 624 years and controlled all Middle East., half of Europe , all North Africa , south Russia , caucasions etc. Romans were here before us for more than 1000 years we collapsed their empire. Your turn will also come some day anyway. How long do you think you can carry on with a 650 billion dollars of deficit everyyear  


7 Feb 2006 @ 22:22 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : Mrs haggis eater
My apiologies Mrs haggis eater, my comment was misplaced and I wholeheartedly agree with your criticism. Indeed, why did it take 4 months before they reacted? It is obvious that sinister forces are using innocent cartoons to start something terrible.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 22:24 by Fatih @85.99.82.124 : your problems
y'all people problems same, im a Turkish and we fight this racist and fanatic islamic terorism because Islam dont say kill people and this terorist dont know islam.... But any European country support our fight, left over you must fight now this islamic terorism because you want this... you want petrol, you want make Turkey weakness, you want stop develop of muslims!!!

dont forget this!! Messiah a muslim Messiah a muslim!! Messiah a muslim!! Messiah a muslim!!  



7 Feb 2006 @ 22:32 by vibrani : How about this
let's talk Koran and Bible:
The two brothers (Abraham and Ishmael) and their descendants were not to fight over the inheritance, but rather"compete in good works," as the Koran, Ishmael's guide book, so aptly says. GOOD WORKS, NOT EVIL, NOT HATEFUL.

Koran clearly states (Sura 5:21) that God granted the Land of Israel to the Children of Israel and ordered them to settle there. In addition, it is predicted that before the end of days, God will bring the Children of Israel to retake possession of the Land, gathering them from the different countries and nations (Sura 17:104).

So look at who ISN'T following their own religion.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 22:56 by reha @81.214.130.185 : tercume
Fatih kardesim. Ingilizcen cok iyi anlasilamiyor. Yanlis anlamaya sebep olmamak icin istersen turkce yolla ben tercume edeyim  


7 Feb 2006 @ 23:27 by bushman : And yet
Faith, the Turks did genide the Armenians, over the same thing, religion. And we all can bet our bottom dollar, that the NWO, is a religion to some, that only has one thing in mind, eugenics for all the races. This is our/your real enemy. Forcing a self cleansing opperation. Don't fall prey to thier manipulations, religion is to bring people together for peace, and to feed the hungry. To come together as one, during natural desasters. There are those in power "now" that believe this planet Earth can only suport 500 million people, indeffinetly. We do thier work for them, by killing each other, in the name of our Gods.  


7 Feb 2006 @ 23:30 by A Dane @86.52.105.106 : To reha
Reha you wrote,
TURKEY IT IS A MORE MODERN COUNTRY THAN MANY WESTERN COUNTRIES I HAVE BEEN ( I HAVE BEEN IN 48 COUNTRIES OF VARIOUS RELIGIONS WORLDWIDE )
----
What western country’s was that? And - why are millions and millions of your muslim friends going to Europe if it’s so good in TURKEY.
Glad to see people there can protest in a civilized manner.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 23:59 by ming : Dialogue
I think it is positive to see the comments here. There's some kind of dialogue at least. Half of it is moronic and unpleasant, but the other half is not. We're obviously not all crazy people.

Before this cartoon controversy thing, I was quite willing to believe that fanatic terrorist types, and those angry people with guns demonstrating in the street, would only be a small percentage of Muslims, and that most are just normal, ordinary, decent people. Certainly, I personally don't know other Muslims that the decent, moderate kind. Now, what the cartoon rage did to me was to drop my generalized respect for Muslims a whole number of points. Particularly when I noticed that otherwise moderate Muslims had the same rage and the same outrageous demands. That makes me suddenly think there's something seriously wrong with Islam altogether. Such a mass psychosis doesn't come from nothing.

I'm of course not the only person to think like that. So, I'd say this affair has hurt things enormously for moderate Muslims. Rather than distancing the crazy fanatics from everybody else, this has shown almost all Muslims to stand together in solidarity. And, in the eyes of the west, to stand together in acting unreasonably, insanely, and violently, and in trying to enforce some barbaric rules that belong in the middle ages.

So, you moderate Muslims have a bit of a credibility problem now. You people here are mostly people who're willing to talk about it, and that is very important and positive. But, even though you did it in a fairly pleasant tone, most of you expressed the same sentiment as the people who burned Danish flags in the street. You maybe disagree with the method, but very few of you disagreed with the principle. If you think somebody offends your prophet, no matter their actual intention, no matter where they are, they should be punished.

I doubt this is the only matter that would trigger such a reaction. I had no clue that anybody would have a problem with drawings of Mohammed before this whole thing. I'm a bit worried about any additional list of things that all Muslims in the world would like to force everybody else in the world to live by.

Hopefully more dialogue can soften things up a bit. Otherwise the result has only been to make some very black and white battle lines. Free western societies versus medieval barbarian societies. Or Islam versus the Infidels. That really looks very, very bad.  



7 Feb 2006 @ 23:59 by UR SAVIUOR @69.194.86.175 : mohamed pbuh
yo
u tink ur so funny. well lemme tell you whats going to happen. I am Said Al- Harizzi and i am going drive my plane and drop an atomic bomb on USA
DO U HEAR ME CORRECTLY? I AM DOING THAT IN 23:45 hours.

iwork for OSAMA BIN LADEN SO EXPECT ME!

sAlAm  



8 Feb 2006 @ 00:07 by The Joker @206.16.237.14 : Islam is a joke!!
Hey Muslims of the world... here is a question for you. Who is the messiah? Who is going to save you from your own sins? Mohammad? NO.... some guy by the name of Jesus. So why do you know everything about Mohammad, and nothing about the guy who is going to save you from going to hell? I'll tell ya why.... because Satan dosen't want you to know Jesus. Also, don't tell me that Mohammad and Jesus are equals when their messages were totally different. Jesus preached forgiveness and compassion. I think that is something missing from the Koran. Also, the problem with the Muslim and Jewish religions is they preach revenge. Christians are taught not to seek this. THIS IS A MAJOR DIFFERENCE..... GET IT!!!!  


8 Feb 2006 @ 00:07 by A Dane @86.52.105.106 : mohamed pbuh
Hmmm - good luck :)) your nuthead.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 00:11 by vibrani : Nope
Jews don't preach revenge.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 00:23 by Ray Charles Istre @71.40.42.126 : Jesus with a nuke?
Are the jihadists really upset because it was just a little old timey bomb depicted in Mohammeds turbin instead of a real nuke like the "Christian" nations have?

As an American artist, should I depict Jesus with a nuke protruding out of his cloak?  



8 Feb 2006 @ 00:29 by stombi @83.200.237.128 : Funny
Funny :-) I like the one with the virgins :-) Come on guys God doesnt exist at all, religion is stone age :-)  


8 Feb 2006 @ 01:11 by quasar @64.7.166.22 : not sure
I don't trust politicians. I praise them when they do right. I love the freedom I have here though. Gotta think that's why people come here and other places like this. I really don't know how you can enjoy the middle east. Don't you want more equality for the people. I don't agree with all the things we do(especially overseas), but at least we have controversy like prayer in school. That's how far religion is from being forced on us. Pretty much a non issue. I lived with fundamental christians. Thank god there not in charge. Bush might be dumb, but not like these idiots. But the middle east has these type of people in charge? That's gotta suck. And for the 'fuck muslim' and 'Down with islam' people out there. I can't tell the difference between you and the people you hate.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 01:13 by eric @71.101.227.115 : loons & cartoons
If this is how muslims behave over a silly cartoon...what can we expect over something more seroius? Arabs, in general, just don't have the required skills to "play well with others". And now they want nuclear power. God, Mohamed, and the rest of the religous icons- protect us from these idiots.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 01:14 by Jack @68.6.82.77 : Why even argue ?
Just wait, time will tell.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 01:33 by The Truth @141.157.190.185 : So let's have an angry riot
Ugly culture that contribute nothing to the world but destruction. Arab's have no work ethic. They have riots in Egypt after a boat sinks, like that solves anything. Advances in medicine or any technology for the betterment of mankind from any of these countries? None!!! A see a lower form of humanity, a few steps behind on the evolutionary scale. They prove Darwin's theory. Lower levels of intelligence are easy to provoke, lack rationality and can't control animal inhibitions. Why do cartoon offend them? Because they are simplistic. Why don't they understand the real meanings of the cartoons? They don't have the capacity to rationalize them. Again Darwin, different cultures move at different rates.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 02:00 by AHz @63.224.1.235 : Perspective
I guess I can see why the pictures are thought to be offensive. First of all, many (not all) forms of Islam believe that it is an abomination to depict Muhammad in any form. Secondly, you don't need much of an imagination to see that depicting him as a devil or with a bomb in his turbin is offensive (still the one about running out of virgins was pretty fucking funny). Nonetheless, the fact of the matter is that even before these pictures most Muslims prayed for the downfall of the west, and the destruction of the United States and Israel if not the anahilation of the Jewish people as whole. Not all Muslims hope for these things but many, probably a majority do. There are many Muslims who practice their religion the way it was intended all and all it is a peaceful religion at its core. Islam did not become a violent threat untill the relitively recent resurgence of the Whabbi school, the brand of Islam that does promote Jihad against the West and Terrorism. For hundreds of years, before this school began to become pervasive and perhaps even dominant in the mindset of the Muslim world as a whole Muslims lived peacefully along side Jews and Christains. Perspective is important, all we can do as Jews, Christians, Bhuddists, Hindus, athiests,agnostics and especially level headed Muslims is combat the terrorist threat and the threat that radical will consume the muslim world by educating people about Islam the way it was written and intended to be practiced and not the form that it been manipulated into.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 02:29 by B Randall @67.120.150.217 : kidding me
I heard all the controversy, and I see the cartoon. Offensive, maybe. But the response to it underlines the cartoon itself. Any free country and ENLIGHTENED country as described here will have a free press. If you dont like it, tell them. But when the "offended" persons/people decide to become violent they validate the damned thing. How many cartoons depicting catholocism or christianity do we see across the globe daily? And movies, pictures and stories that put those in bad taste? So many it cant be counted. But now the world should shutter at the thought of upsetting those who are followers of Muhammad? The same countries that allow free press will see you are upset merely by those letting them know without the use of violence. And if there is enough pressure, those persons individually who put that on print will lose their jobs forever making it a no no. Meanwhile, have a sense of humor would you? Because the way it looks now, those who are advocating the extreme for a stupid drawing are feeding into it. Nice job. Meanwhile, look into Monty Python for religious poor tasted humor. You didnt see (and dont see) catholics, prodestants and christians rising up calling for England to do something.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 02:35 by The Truth @141.157.190.185 : Bullshit
The Arabs became terrorists because they couldn't fight a conventional war. Their armies were a joke, just a mob on horses. They started after WWI and Britain and France devided the region into spheres of influence. The Arabs rebeled and got their asses kicked all over when the French and Brits put napalm to its first good use in Damascas and Bahgdad. When WWII started, the arabs naturally leaned to the Nazis, but the British wacked the Iranian monarch and put their own in place rather than screw around with him. Iran was their supply line to Southern Russia. Little Israel kicked their ass repeatedly after WWII and threatened to annax all the way to Damascas. The mistake of de-colonizing the region and allowing them to nationalize their own and only resource, oil lead to terrorism. Oil money funds terrorism. Take away the oil money and they are reduced to the as far as they can throw a rock.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 02:52 by MacG @85.99.47.186 : Whay offensive
I personally don't find them offensive(the virgin one is especially good:) but I guess most of you don't understand the reason people got offended.
It has nothing to do with what the cartoons say...majority of the people protesting them haven't seen them i bet. The thing is drawing Mohammed is considered offensive so the reason that they were published is the reason why people are offended.

The thing I found offensive is that the editor of the newspaper knew this and this is why he wanted the cartoons from the artists. They were published to offend people make muslims riot (cause that's what they do, why they do it is another subject of course) And create this whole anti-muslim propaganda.

Now the first time they were published(september) didn't make so much noise so they pushed it further again.Now that they got what they wanted, empowering the hatred between muslims and non-muslims they apoligised.

Come on now did it take 5 months for you to see that people really and sincerely got offended? What proof do you need to see that you offended them?

And if you ask my opinion drawing Mohammed is not offensive.And of course should not be offensive. But check the one which shows an artist drawing Mohammed and he is scared. (an artist should not be scared of doing his art of course.) But they knew what would happen and they got the result they wanted in the first place.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 03:31 by quasar @64.7.166.22 : the holocaust
I heard that an Iran newspaper is having a holocaust cartoon contest. You know who's gonna riot about that. No one! The middle east needs to work on their PR skills  


8 Feb 2006 @ 05:29 by sam @172.138.133.28 : cartoons
these were cartoons - the protests around the world are unwarranted as are the words above about hating and killing. we're not getting any closer to living peacefully together by condemning each other in a blog. it's a shame that these protests are bringing out the worst in people - be them muslim or christiam (or any other religion - wouldn't want to offend anyone by leaving them out). it's also unfortunate that these protests make muslims look bad - and we don't need a history/commentary about people having nothing. there are many unbelievably poor people in latin america and they protest against their government not against others.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 06:43 by rick @24.87.42.0 : send em to mars
im sick of all you religious freaks who claim to know the mind of god.lets send all the religious people to mars,muslims,christians and jews get on board...get the fuck off gods planet,you don't know shit about anything....humans are fucked. p.s. there is a god but you dont know fuck all about him....probly is a her,,,and she probly looks like jessica alba.......mmmm jessica.....i think im gonna go spill some seed and piss of the christians...lol  


8 Feb 2006 @ 06:44 by bdidy @70.112.100.241 : stuff
personally i am going to protest the protesters. i am going to counteract their boycott with the my own boycott. that's right from this point on the only sand i purchase will be from a non-islamic based sand company. i'm sorry it had to come to this.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 07:29 by Rick @216.175.98.7 : More thoughts
Lets look at a stellar example of something 'blasphemous; to Christianity: Monty Python's

"Life of Brian" ...

Google search commenceth ...

1The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops rates it as "Morally Offensive"
"A movie about a hapless fellow named Brian, a contemporary of Jesus, who is mistaken for

the Messiah and eventually crucified by the Romans. The nihilistic, anything-for-laughs

thrust of director Terry Jones's comedy deliberately exploits much that is sacred to

Christian and Jewish religious tradition. Especially offensive is the mocking parody of

the crucifixion scene." [link]


2Jack Mathethws, Daily News Entertainment writes "When Monty Python's "Life of

Brian" reached America's shores in the fall of 1979, one of the many religious leaders

offended by it here made the astonishing claim that religious satire is not covered by

the First Amendment. Others worried that it would trigger violence among angered

Christians and Jews.

Nevertheless, the movie was viewed — uncensored — by millions of satisfied customers,

without provoking either a constitutional crisis or reported instances of stonings.

[snipped]

But as passionate as some people get over perceived offenses to their faith, there really

is room under the First Amendment for irreverence and satire, and most of us are agreed

on that. The only way humor can hurt you is if you split a gut. With "Life of Brian,"

that's a possibility."

[link]


3 Welease Bwianon provides an edited extract of Always Look on the Bright Side

of Life by Robert Sellers "...it was decided to open Life of Brian first in America,

where freedom of speech and religious choice is enshrined in the constitution. Or so it

was thought. Life of Brian received its world premiere in New York on August 17 1979, the

same week as Apocalypse Now and The Muppet Movie.

The opening salvo in what became a heated and often surreal religious war of words

arrived on August 19 from Rabbi Abraham Hecht, president of the Rabbinical Alliance of

America, who claimed to speak for half a million Jews. Speaking in Variety, he declared,

"Never have we come across such a foul, disgusting, blasphemous film before." Hecht went

on to make public his view that Brian "was produced in hell".

The voice of Protestant protest belonged to Robert EA Lee of the Lutheran Council, whose

tirade against Brian - "crude and rude mockery, colossal bad taste, profane parody. A

disgraceful assault on religious sensitivity" - was broadcast across 1,000 radio

stations.

Not to be outdone, the Catholic film-monitoring office rated Brian "C" for "Condemned"

and implored its flock not to visit theatres where it was playing, it being a sin to do

so.

Naturally, the protests and marches only served to heighten Brian's media profile and

so increase its box-office take. Nothing sells better than when it comes attached to the

whiff of notoriety. When the shit started hitting the fan Stateside, the original

plan to open Brian on 200 screens nationwide snowballed to nearer 600. [Italics mine

everybody]

"They have actually made me rich," Cleese ribbed on an American chat show. "I feel we

should send them a crate of champagne."

When Life of Brian opened across Britain in the new year, the battle lines altered

dramatically and Python became a victim of regional censorship. "There was a loophole in

the law," Palin recalls. "Local authorities had power over certain cinemas through health

regulations, and they used this extraordinary clause to ban Monty Python because it was

unhealthy. I don't know if they thought it would spread diseases in cinemas."

Life of Brian ended up being banned in Harrogate, parts of Surrey, east Devon (where

councillors refused even to watch it, arguing, "You don't have to see a pigsty to know

that it stinks") and Cornwall (where, after one screening, a local councillor rather

overstated the case by arguing for all the participants in the film to be locked up in

Broadmoor)."http://www.movienet.com/lifeofbrian.html


4 Peter Johnson of libertus.net writes "An American Lutheran spokesman described the film

as ‘crude and rude mockery, … profane parody [and] overt and perverse sacrilege.’ The

interfaith anti-pornography organisation Morality in Media described it as an ‘outrage’

and a Catholic monsignor condemned the film as ‘an act of blasphemy’. Coarse language and

some nude scenes added insult to injury.

In Australia, however, Dean Chamberlin took a distinctly different approach from his

American brethren. In his view, the film was ‘in no real sense a parody of the life of

Christ’. Life of Brian was ‘irreverent throughout, tasteless in parts, frequently

amusing, but, in my view, is not blasphemous. It appears to me that the reaction to the

film has been excessive in some quarters.’ Peter Gould, reviewing the film in Sydney’s

Catholic Weekly, came to similar conclusions. Chamberlin advised readers against seeing

Life of Brian, but noted specifically that the reasons for this recommendation were

‘tastelessness and irreverence, not … blasphemy.

Lesley Hicks, an Anglican columnist and regular supporter of Festival causes, joined in

by reproducing a list of damning American reviews of the film: ‘the foulest-spoken

Biblical epic ever made’, ‘the most vicious piece of blasphemy I have seen’ etc. She

approvingly quoted Mother Basilea Schlink, another AFOL supporter, to the effect that

Christians could not ‘remain silent in the face of the defamation, disgrace and blasphemy

God is made to suffer."

[link]

5 On 2 Jan 2006, readers of "The Scottsman" newpaper just voted MONTY Python's Life of Brian as the greatest comedy film of all time. It beat the 1980 movie Airplane! into second place."


Observations
1. It's been two decades since this movie, life went on and the world kept spinning.
2. It is HARD to support concepts of free speech when you really don't like the

speach.
3. Protests backfire, especially when based on narrowmindedness.
4. Protests fail utterly when based on murder.
5. Fiction is ... FICTION!.


For all those who want to drop nukes (figuratively or literally) I think of 1 Peter 15-16 "For it is God's will that by doing right you should silence the ignorance of the foolish. As servants of God, live as free people, yet do not use your freedom as a pretext for evil".


One last thing. The hardest thing about Christianity for me is from 1 Cor 13 "Therefore, if food is a cause of their falling, I will never eat meat, so that I may not cause one of them to fall".

What is this? I have to be so considerate of others that I cannot do what I know is good if I think it will cause another to sin? How can I do that! I have my individual rights! Oh yea, I keep forgetting something. It is the "I" in me that must die before "I" can then live in Christ. Does this mean I really loose my individuality? Not at all, not at all.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 08:07 by daniel @80.88.153.206 : AttN: MRS HAGGIS-EATER

ATTN: MRS HAGGIS-EATER

RE: Muslim Cleric jailed 7 yrs.

I believe this is the worst thing the British authorities has done, well, and surprisingly, to Non-muslims. You said the cleric is a suicide bomber, he is not. And you missed one point. The people that pushed for the blind cripple's arrest and subsequent trial were of course other muslim clerics, and many muslims were said to have testified against him during the trial.

Why then is his arrest and trial then a disaster to non-muslims? Because of course this man's preachings was based on exactly what was in the Qouran. By going public with the laws in the quoran about hatred and violence serves to remind us non-muslims what islam stands for. By telling other muslims to kill and bomb and destroy non-muslims makes non-muslims to be aware of the dangers of what the Quoran preaches. Witness the fact that the London Bombings took place after the clerics arrest, I believe if he were still a free man and continued his preachings the London Police would have been more vigilant and probably would have thwarted the evil efforts of the bombers.

The Muslim Cleric Imam Abu Hamza was indeed a true prophet of Allah and he taught the TRUE WORDS of the Quoran, he taught what islam stood for, what the Quoran promise for those muslim believers that carried out Allah's wish. By in-prisoning him the British authorities have done a great disfavor to non-muslims, particularly those that are about to convert to islam. What's more the freedom of speech and the freedom to preach the true words of Imam Abu Hamza's religion has been violated.

Imam Abu Hamza: you are being persecuted for telling people the truth, for telling them what your Holy book says, but never worry "The truth shall set u Free, dude!"  



8 Feb 2006 @ 08:15 by Aziz A @64.213.98.17 : the prophet Mohammad
Mohammad is a prophet and massanger sent by God to make peace, justice and worshiping of one God domenant people. He prevented killing, theft, lying, offencing etc.Also he advised Moslims to respect other religions and prophets. So he doesnt deserve to be treated as a bad man through drawings or speech. Some Muslim people may interpret the directions given by the Holy Kuran wrongly, however it is not fair to treat all Muslims and their prophet badly.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 08:29 by Jew @66.230.81.196 : 3 happiness
My recipe for world peace (grandma's old cookbook)
1) Extradict palestinians to their homecountry Gaza to join their Hamas buddies.
If anybody throws more bombs at Jews torch the Gaza with napalm.
2) Blow the Iran nukelar sites to shit
3) Load the rest of arabs on the spaceships and send them to the moon  



8 Feb 2006 @ 09:00 by Rick @216.175.98.7 : Question for Daniel
Daniel, from wikipedia [link] I learn:

"One of the six basic beliefs shared by all Muslims are of the the books (kutub) sent by God:
The Suhuf-i-Ibrahim (Scrolls of Abraham)
The Tawrat sent to Musa (Moses)
The Zabur sent to Daud (David)
The Injil sent to Isa (Jesus)
The Qur'an sent to Muhammad"

And regarding other religions that "The Qur'an contains injunctions to respect other religions. It also asks the followers to fight and subdue unbelievers in times of war and "evict them whence they evicted you" (Al-Qur'an 2:191). Some Muslims have respected Jews and Christians as fellow "peoples of the book" (monotheists following Abrahamic religions), while others have reviled them as having abandoned monotheism and corrupted their scriptures. At different times and places, Islamic communities have been both intolerant and tolerant.

The classical Islamic solution was a limited tolerance — Jews and Christians were to be allowed to privately practice their faith and follow their own family law. They were called Dhimmis, and they had fewer legal rights and obligations than Muslims.

The classic Islamic state was often more tolerant than many other states of the time, which insisted on complete conformity to a state religion. The record of contemporary Muslim-majority states is mixed. Some are generally regarded as tolerant, while others have been accused of intolerance and human rights violations. See the main article, Islam and other religions, for further discussion."

The most recent online Times artical [link],,2-2030129,00.html states "The charges against Abu Hamza, a father of seven, were based on hours of videotapes of his sermons. He urged training for holy war, told congregations that the Holocaust and Hitler were sent from God to punish the Jews and repeatedly urged the killing of kuffars (non-believers). “There is no drop of liquid that is loved by Allah more than the liquid of blood,” he preached."

In this artical are short audio clips [link] one where he identifies 5 enemies of Islam:
1. Tyrants and apostates of our leaders
2. Jews
3. Christians
4. Evil [something] of muslims (sorry, I could not understand it)
5. Hypocrites
6. Ignorance of our Ummah

What I hear in this clip is consistent with the charges stated and inconsistent with injunctions to respect other religions. How can Abu Hamza be teaching Truth?  



8 Feb 2006 @ 11:47 by Drew @4.153.195.197 : Dark Forces Yes anonimous
These dark forces of the spirit world are behind all of this crap!! It is prophsied in the bible for there to be a king of the North and a king of the South (Europe and the Arabs) and they are prophsied to be at odds with one another even leading to world war three!!! But to think that these cartoons could be used by the evil spirit world to help accomplish this is amazaing. Just wait till the SLEEPING GIANT of The Counterfit Christian Catholic religion rears it't ugly head with GERMANY at the helm (we all know that these people don't play around!!!) Unlike when hitler tried ( HE fought europe this time all of europe will be with the Germans) and then all these muslims will get a taste of there BLITZKRIG. Watch for it!!! GOD is Love Amen!  


8 Feb 2006 @ 11:57 by Drew @4.153.195.197 : What better way
What better way for the sleeping giant to be awoken that to have to pull together to protect themselve from this devastating scurge called Islam!  


8 Feb 2006 @ 12:51 by ABDULLAAHI ABDURRAHMAN ABDURRAHII @220.240.91.192 : DENMARK MUST DIE
DENMARK MUST BE KILLED BY MY HAND OR MY BROTHERS', SONS' HANDS OR ANY MUSLIM'S HANDS RIGHT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW  


8 Feb 2006 @ 13:05 by MOHAMME EISA (JESUS) MUSA (MOSES) @220.240.91.192 : EVEN U???!!! DENMARK??!!!
its time to wake up all MUSLIMS in the world. the jews controll the euorpean now they forgot the hitler. now u'll c millions of hitlers but Muslim. remember we MUSLIMS never ever kill the children, elders, civils, women but any1 who agree that pic no way on the earth n paradise as the ONE in HOLLAND a couple month ago who was filmed the abusing of that MUSLIM WOMEN's (who covered like MOTHER MARIAM-Jesus's mom- May Allah peace be upon them).
so im ready now to kill the who created tht pic n whoever followed. cos im boring this life without tasting of PARADISE so now ICAN SMELL IN killing whole DANISH newspaper's STAFFS with their followers.
regards
Your PARADISE SEARCHER  



8 Feb 2006 @ 13:29 by OH DENMARK DONT DIE IN ANGER @220.240.91.192 : POOR DINISH, U SAW THE.....
POOR THING DANISH WHEN THE NUMBER OF DANISH (BEST PEOPLE) COVERTING THE REALIGION OF ISLAM (WICH WAS SENT -Y THE LAST N BEST PROPHET MOHAMMAD MAY ALLAH PEACE BE UPON HIM- THE WHOLE BEST MANNERS, HONORS, NICE LIFE HERE N HEREAFTER JUST WELFOLLOWING HIM, WHICH ALSO CAN C HIS MIRACLE IN THREE WORDS TO GIVE UP ALCOHOL THAT WHOLE MADINA STATE BECAME STREETS AS RIVERS COS OF POURING THE ALCOHOL AFTER THE FORBIDDING VESRE WAS CAME DOWN FROM ALLAH THROUGH JABREEL TO MUHAMMAD P.B.U. THEM,) SO THEY LIKDE TO STOP OR TO HATE THEIR OWN PPL, BUT ISLAM WAS PROTECTED BY ALLAH N IF ALL MUSLIMS WERE KILLED FOR THAT REASON (PURIFILY) THEY WONT MISS THE PARADISE. BUT WHOEVER CREATED OR FOLLWED THAT PIC PRAPARE URSELEF TO KILL U OR TO DIE IN WORST WAY FORM THE DEATH ANGLE.... N U'LL MISS NOT THE HELFIRE IN HEREAFTER. WHOEVER GET FIRRE IN THIS LIFE IS FROM JEWS THE CHILD KILLERS IN PALASTINE........  


8 Feb 2006 @ 13:59 by A Dane @86.52.105.106 : Denmark
Amen....  


8 Feb 2006 @ 14:23 by DEFCON1 @220.236.35.211 : stupidity
Its amazing how all this is sparked by one cartoon. Whats more amazing and equally stupid is that some of these protestors are shouting out "die America" and "Bin Laden Is alive" when the whole protest was supposed to be about the cartoon. If muslims act like this all it does is confirm alot the western world that muslims are just a lot of savages with 15th century ideals.

Its ok for muslims (iranians for example) to depict jewish children being eaten because of theyre hatred for the people of israel, but when a western nation draws a picture of muhammed there all up in arms. So the muslims can dish it out but they cant take it themselves. In my opinion the general muslim populace would rather NOT have freedom of information, speech e.t.c and would want nothing more than to have every nation a muslim state with islamic rules and regulations (sharia law) e.t.c. The solution? Send all these muslim trouble makers packing, throw them on and island and let them destroy each other and whoevers left, cut theyre hands off and make them eat it.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 14:34 by deth @85.185.102.67 : down with denmark
down with denmark
down with denmarkdown with denmark
down with denmark
down with denmark
down with denmark
down with denmark
down with denmark
down with denmarkdown with denmarkdown with denmarkdown with denmark
down with denmarkdown with denmark
down with denmark


down with denmarkdown with denmarkdown with denmark

down with denmarkdown with denmark


down with denmark
down with denmark
down with denmark
down with denmark
down with denmark
down with denmark
down with denmark
down with denmark  



8 Feb 2006 @ 14:37 by muhammeds ass @220.236.35.211 : Check this out
"5 Feb 2006 @ 13:00 by STEVE @195.10.45.154 : moHAMmed
I'll be tolerant of islam when i see a church built in Mecca. Our tolerance is seen as a weakness by these madmen. Every mosque should be considered a trojan horse"- some guy on this blog.

DAmn right!!!! Even the vatican has a mosque!! John Paul asked for i to be built. Now thats what i call tolerance, the leader of the catholic church building a mosque in his own backyard! I'd like to see you muslims do something tolerant like that instead of parading around like you have such a great religion. Your religion is just full of hatred and violance towards anything unmuslim, your religion stinks.

BTW I read from a book on Islam (ill give the source when i find it again) that these suicide bombers actually misinterpret the "72 virgins" crap when you die in the name of allah. According to this book ist meant to be 72 sultanas! HAHAHA!!!!  



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8 Feb 2006 @ 15:08 by mishka @168.209.98.35 : stupid muslims
muslims want us to respect them. but for what? they are so stupid and violent.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 15:09 by vibrani : The biggest joke is
that Muslims think words can hurt God. Nothing can hurt God.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 15:22 by caroline @168.209.98.35 : saddam hussin
saddam hussin was good for muslims. he knew how to treat them. WITH BRUTALITY!  


8 Feb 2006 @ 15:26 by Rick @216.175.98.7 : Biggest joke
Couldn't agree more, vavrani. Sometimes it's the simplist insight that cuts to the core.

It's humans that are totally missing the point, surely not God!  



8 Feb 2006 @ 15:32 by Rick @216.175.98.7 : Biggest joke, part duex
side note ...

What I read in many blogs from Muslims, Christians, others is apparently a position that words cannot hurt God either. I actually think that's not true this damanges at least one side of our relationship with God ... our side.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 15:34 by vibrani : Well, Rick
people tend to assign human traits to God, think God is a man, vulnerable - yeah, sure, the creator of the universes and all life is a wimp with an ego problem! Put his hands on his hips and stomp out in a tearful hissy fit because of a cartoon. hahahaha Or that some prophet will be offended. If people would get their heads out of their dogma, and their asses, they might get a clue. Then they might not have to go around hurting and killing people in God's name.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 16:58 by hitler @80.202.139.151 : fuck these stupid people
every last one of you ignorant fucking muslim people hear this:what tha fuck is youre problem.are you really that stupid,do ya really want to start a war for youre FUCKING belives?how low can you go?we should just drop a bomb,and make mall`s all over tha place.turn theire crappy country`s into big parking spaces.they really dont deserve all tha help and supply`es they get from the western country`s.we should just give them enough bullets and rifles so they would kill each other instead.maybe one day we can all just live in harmony,without these sick sick peolpe.THE WORLD NEEDS ANOTHER HITLER!  


8 Feb 2006 @ 17:03 by F.R. @142.150.194.46 : Islam is creating conflict
I can see the day when Western countries will ban muslims from entering and banning the Muslim religion from Western countries. Its sad that we cannot all
see each other as just human beings with love and respect.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 17:07 by vibrani : The day has come a long time ago
when Muslim countries banned non-Muslims! Muslims spend so much of their time hurting and murdering each other. Why can't Muslims ever see themselves?

The one thing the world doesn't need is another Hitler.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 17:10 by ZIM @66.181.92.2 : dope
So you are defending the freedom of speech by killing all muslims.
Because when the the terrorists kill innocent people you blame islam.
When muslims speak their minds you say they are all insane and you pick every each one of the muslims (like hitler to jews) and kill them and this is your understanding of freedom of speech????

No!!!! I support everyones right to free speech its the violence and destruction im against...Muslims are not seeking free speech young man they want revenge and death to non muslims dude listen to what theyre saying in the streets  



8 Feb 2006 @ 17:10 by F.R. @142.150.194.46 : Let God be God
I say let God be God and people be people and God will take care of itself.

The world needs love.......  



8 Feb 2006 @ 17:23 by Al @62.252.128.16 : response to mohamme eisa
you say muslims never kill woman and children but you must have missed the last few years of current affairs.From Al-quada in iraq to palastinians killing a mother and family in their car in israel last year,Yes and I know the yankee coalition has killed many innocents,but dont talk out your arse and try ,to be balanced.Every death is sad who ever it is and by whom ever it was done by,and if your in search of paradise then kindly just kill yourself without killing any one else.....oh sorry thats a great sin in Islam is it.Listen to some of the more enlightened people of your religion and try not to show that you are an un-educated moron from what seems to be out of space.If paradise is so great it makes me wonder why some of you guys continue breathing?  


8 Feb 2006 @ 17:30 by Geoff @62.252.128.16 : to daniel on abu hamza
I hope hamza likes a full english brekky in jail, with cumberland sausage and danish bacon,maybe a smidge of english mustard as well....Lovely  


8 Feb 2006 @ 17:35 by vibrani : What do people have to gain
by destroying this planet? If we don't take care of it, it won't be here in the future, it won't sustain us today. If this escalates any further, we will have nuclear war. Is this what everyone wants? Come on. I have good friends who are married to each other - one is Jewish and the other a Muslim and they have a beautiful relationship for over 20 years. You have to walk your talk. It's not enough to say "my religion means peace" or whatever. One has to live it.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 17:39 by ZIM @66.181.92.2 : Mulims
Mohammad is a prophet and massanger sent by God to make peace, justice and worshiping of one God domenant people. He prevented killing, theft, lying, offencing etc.Also he advised Moslims to respect other religions and prophets. So he doesnt deserve to be treated as a bad man through drawings or speech. Some Muslim people may interpret the directions given by the Holy Kuran wrongly, however it is not fair to treat all Muslims and their prophet badly.

You know I see a lot of Muslims defending Islam...

first off

Mohamed "the prophet"

its historically recorded by muslims that he
raided caravans
had a # of people killed including members of his own family
fought over money and territory

hmm some messiah.....

but forget that if you guys are saying "Hey Zim 99.9% of us are not like that" then why dont you do more to fight it you just sit back on your camels shaking your fingers saying "oh we condem terrorism but those people got what they deserve Muslim peoples and especially governments are barely making a token effort to stem violence while on the other hand theyre funding it secretly... if Islam is so peacful and good why arent all muslims openly condeming it and fighting it? maybe because you really want it to continue? or your afraid if you speak up youll get your head sawed off? or because you just cant stand people that are different then you... if things continue down this road it will be war.... and in a fight of feedom VS Islam Islam will lose  



8 Feb 2006 @ 17:42 by reha @81.214.130.185 : answer to bushman
Dear Bushman

Your history knowledge is very weak or I would say you have no idea about what had happened here about the Armenians. It is totally insane to claim that it was a genoside due to religion. All three religions have been living together in peace having the same and equal rights here since the foundation of the Ottoman empire. Before you Europeans had even no idea about justice, equity etc we had it here in the year 1300 . We still have mosques churches and sinagogs laying next to each other since so many centuries.

About the Armenians : they were our citizens for centuries and they cooperated with the enemy( Russians) during the first world war and it was them who attacked our army from behind and massacred our soldiers. They also attacked our villages and killed the villagers of other ethnicity than Armenians. Therefore the government decided to relocate them from East Anatolia to Middle East. Armenians had been repelled many more times in Anatolia before us as well. I think the Romans must also have had similar problems with them.

Just to correct your history knowledge !  



8 Feb 2006 @ 17:57 by no religion too @70.156.204.75 : my god's better than your god
IRONY IRONY IRONY. WHY IS RELIGION IN YOUR LIFE????
LOVE- NO
UNDERSTANDING-NO
TOLERENCE-NO
HATE-YES!!!!!! WE HAVE A WINNER  



8 Feb 2006 @ 18:04 by zim @66.181.92.2 : turks
I think the turkish schools left those incidents out of thier history books
just go on google and look up greek genocide or armenian Genocide.. they have pictures and everything  



8 Feb 2006 @ 18:07 by DixieGirl @216.37.94.30 : Mohammed cartoons
Hey - out there! All you ragheads! GET A LIFE! It's just a damn cartoon, for God's sake (excuse me, for Allah's sake). Lighten up! Go fuck a camel !  


8 Feb 2006 @ 18:20 by reha @81.214.130.185 : mosque in vatikan answer to steve
Dear Steve,

We have here in Istanbul mosques,churches and sinagogs next to each since 6 centuries and there has been no problem between the 3 religions . Everybody has his own religion and can practice it as he wishes. You have mosques there in Europe since only very recently. I can't remember one there in the year 1400's. Do you ?  



8 Feb 2006 @ 18:37 by bushman : Well, see
thats my point. When my family came to the USA, they had already been thru whats going on in the middle east now. Regaurdless of how the ottomans look at it, the first Armenians to come to USA, ran from what they called genocide. Some ran to white russia. Anyway, my grandparents, came to the USA, and became citizens, took my grandma 3 years to become fluent in english she was 14 then. The story she told us about the gencide was that her and her sisters shaved thier heads so they would look like boys, a british officer found them hideing in stacks of dead bodies, took them to a safe house, then they got roled up in a carpet, and some how made it to elis island in a hold of a ship. My grandma was from a city called Hajincy or hajin, and my grandpa was from Tarsus Turkey, he was a spy for Greece. They met in an aranged marriage. Anyway my point was that when you move to a new country, you do as they do, regaurdless of religion or language. This dosnt mean throw out your belifes. We know it was all in the past, we know some of the history has been twisted or ommited, but the fact that some Armenians saw the situation as ethnic cleansing and genocide. They arnt useing it now as a weapon. They never taught us grandkids the language, because they spoke 3 different languages mixed, persian and turkish and armenian. I'm an american, I like to think I'm native american since I was born here. I would say that writen history in this case, is not the real story, just from the stories past down, during that time, I cant imagin the terror my grandma faced running thru hacked up bodies of her friends and neighbors, she had said that the turks came in and killed anyone that had converted to christian. I think I will believe the history that has been passed down before the history writen by the victors. My family has been involved in world goverment since the begining, so as your history maybe right in some ways, you dont know the half that lurks in the shadows, as well as I do. Any army that attacks citizens is criminal, in my book. But it was the behind the scenes espiange that made things as they are today. Like I said, you don't see Armenians shooting up the place and burning stuff, you don't see them whinning for some memorial that the whole world must bow to. I supose there are some with hate in thier hearts still. If it hadnt been for the british, my family would not exist today. And to think my grandmas mom, was the decan of the greek orthodox church in Hajin. It is and was all about religion as far as I can tell, the rest, is deep dark NWO agents manipulating whole religions, into self destruction. Just my oppinion. :}  


8 Feb 2006 @ 18:40 by Some French dude.. @82.123.12.232 : Turkey
Reha, I agree that Turkey is by far the most modern muslim country... but the Ottaman Empire was hardly a place of religious tolerance :p

[link]

"When Turks conquered Istanbul in 1453, the first thing Mehmed "the Conqueror" did was to order the conversion of the church [Hagia Sophia]into a mosque. Because he believed that this was written in Holy Koran that Istanbul should be conquered and turned to be an Islamic Land. From then on, the Church served as a great mosque, with four minarets added in different periods."

.. but at least, now it's a museum you can visit (unlike Mecca for example) which is good.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 18:45 by Dr. Shred @192.45.72.28 : Mohammed cartoons
What I find interesting is that the vast majority of Americans don’t know that the United States is the largest exporter of state sponsored terrorism in the world. Here are a few examples:

The overthrow of Premier Mossadeq of IRAN November 1952-August 1953 by the CIA

See [link]

See also the book “All the Shah's Men : An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror” by Stephen Kinzer

Mossadeq’s “crime” was he wanted to nationalize the oil industry in Iran so the people of Iran could benefit from their own natural resources. Great Britain’s oil industry didn’t like this so they asked the U.S. to take out Mossadeq and put the Mohammad Reza Pahlavi in power. The rest, as they say, is history.

The overthrow of Salvador Allende of the U.S. Sponsored Coup, September 11, 1973 in Chile. Allenda’s “crime” was that he wanted to nationalize the copper industry so the people of Chile could benefit from their own natural resources. The U.S. copper industry didn’t like this so they asked the U.S. to take out Allende and put General Augusto Pinochet Ugarte in power. The rest, as they say, is history.

See [link]

Central American genocide: “Year in and year out confirmed reports are published of the torture, enslavement and murder of Indians in Central and South America--almost 10,000 dead and "disappeared" annually in Guatemala alone during much of the 1980s, the proportional equivalent of more than 300,000 Americans deaths each year--virtually all of it carried out with the complicity of the United States government.”

It’s not just in Guatemala but Costa Rica, Honduras, Nicaragua El Salvador. Many of the right wing paramilitary leaders were trained at the U.S. Army’s School of the Americas where students are trained in

“...counterinsurgency, military intelligence, interrogation techniques, sniper fire, infantry and commando tactics, "irregular" and psychological warfare, jungle operations, among the most bellicose specialties. But Latin American soldiers at the SOA are not always trained to defend their borders from foreign invasion. They are taught--at US taxpayers' expense--to make war against their own people, to subvert the truth, silence poets, domesticate unruly visionaries, muzzle activist clergy, hinder trade unionism, hush the voices of dissidence and discontent, neutralize the poor, the hungry, the dispossessed, extinguish common dreams, irrigate fields of plenty with the tears of a captive society, and transform paladins and protesters into submissive vassals. Even if it kills them.”

see [link]

http://pangaea.org/street_children/latin/soa.htm

[link]

The people of Central America’s “crime” was that they wanted to benefit from their own natural resources have decent working conditions and a decent life. The big fruit companies in the U.S. and Great Britain didn’t like it so ...

East Timor “The scale of the human tragedy in East Timor defies belied. Since Indonesia invaded East Timor in 1975, 200,000 East Timorese have been killed by the Indonesian military or have fallen victim to starvation and disease.
That’s a third of the total population. "Ever since President Gerald Ford and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger gave general Suharto the green light to invade East Timor in 1975, America has turned a blind eye to Jakarta’s human rights abuses while providing more than $1 billion worth of weaponry and millions more in military aid and training."
see [link]
http://www.freedom.tp/

There are more examples, but why bother?

So now you wonder why they hate us?  



8 Feb 2006 @ 19:27 by reha @81.214.130.185 : The religion in the Ottoman time
Dear French Dude , I agree that Fatih converted Hagia Sophia into a mosque which I also believe was a mistake to cover up and hence to destroy those wonderful pictures , tables etc because they were Christian symbols. But I think Ataturk corrected that error to a certain degree by converting it into a museum and cleaning up the plaster over the Christian symbols and recovering them back as much as possible.

On the other hand the population in the empire contained a very high percentage of Christians and there had always been a lot of churches all throughout the empire , mainly concentrated in Istanbul. Most of them are still being used and you can visit them and pray there whenever you want. Some of them are not being used any more since we don't have so many Christians any more.

Nobody had never been under any sort of pressure due to his religion or etnicity here in the last 6 centuries. Just on the contrary people under pressure due to region or ethnicity in any part of this geography had escaped to Turkey ( eg : Spanish jews , jews escaping from Hitler , nations in Caucasians after Russian invasion including my own family , kurds escaping from Saddam )  



8 Feb 2006 @ 19:42 by Some French Dude @82.123.12.232 : ..Reha
"Some of them are not being used any more since we don't have so many Christians any more."
"Nobody had never been under any sort of pressure due to his religion or etnicity here in the last 6 centuries"
Sounds a bit contracdictory in my opinion...

While I do agree that Turkey is a tolerant country today, mainly because it's a SECULAR society (thanks to Ataturk like you said),I don't think the Ottoman Empire, which tried to invade Europe and nearly took Vienna (that's NOT muslim land, I hope you agree !) was a model of religious tolerance and peace...  



8 Feb 2006 @ 19:50 by vibrani : More like
by the sword, French Dude.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 19:54 by ZIM @66.181.92.2 : Constantinople
I wasnt there but I have read that the turks murdered a lot of greeks and forcibly removed others, still others were made to pay heavy taxes... but all and all I think Turkey along with Jordan, Morroco and Tunesia shouldnt be perceived the same way as the rest of the muslim countries it would be nice if they did more  


8 Feb 2006 @ 20:02 by Some French Dude @82.123.12.232 : ...
I agree with you ZIM, btw Malaysia is also a modern muslim country.

What disturbs me a little in Reha's posts is that she seems unwilling to admit that the Ottoman Empire is, far from being an example to follow, one of the worst examples of a murderous, imperialistic society in the name of Islam expansion... most civilazations did the same (Mongols, Christians, etc...), but it disturbs me where I hear that somehow Islam is different (that "hollier than thou" attitude again is ennerving)  



8 Feb 2006 @ 20:07 by reha @81.214.130.185 : Armenian issue
I'd like to start by correcting one thing about this issue. There is no relation between the reason of the deportage of the Armenians and their religion. If we had not wanted them only because they were Christians why do we still have numerous Armenian churches here in Turkey. If we had killed them only because of their ethnicity what was the reason that the Armenians in Istanbul were in many respectful duties in the state ( eg doctors, state officers ( even in the ministries and army ) while the ones in the Eastern Anatolia were being deported. Because they helped the Russians in the war and hence betrayed their own state they had been a citizen of since centuries. I am not saying that what had happened was nice but we were not the one to start this war in the first place. We suffered much much more than the Armenians in this war. We lost millions of our citizens , soldiers , our empire, and even our country. It was not an easy war. The party on power at that time decided to deport the Armenians for the security of our Army there since we had more than enough problem fighting against the Russians and the attack of the Armenians, our citizens ,from behind was far too much to handle for our army which was also fighting in many other fronts with the English , Arabs ( our dear muslim brothers who were on the English side !!! ) , French , italians., Australians , etc. I am not defending that Party ( Ittihat ve Terakki ) since most of the decisions they took was a disaster for us. But it was all history and better to analysed and decided by the history scientists.

About the web page of the Armenians about what they call as genocide : We have freedom of speech . Everybody can express their opinions as they wish. But they that does not necessarily mean that all thoso expressed opinions are 100% correct !! This is typical western again . listening only to one side and giving a decision. prejudice ! There are no evidence there about the villagers massacred , the soldiers attacked from behind and killed by the Armenians.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 20:08 by ZIM @66.181.92.2 : first born
lets not forget the ottomons for centuries stole the first born child in Christian families of the Balkans to serve as Janissaries

I think Indonesia however has a large population of Muslims that are violent and warlike ... on the news thats one of the countries where big cartoon protests are held  



8 Feb 2006 @ 20:13 by Some French Dude @82.123.12.232 : Armenians...
Reha, you have 100% free speech here :-)

..you have the right to deny the holocaust of the Armenians (and Greeks, Cypriotes, etc...) by the Turks during the last century... you have the right to try to justify mass murder of a whole people by military strategy, or the usual "they started it " excuse, etc...

However, please understand that you lose most of your credibility in the process...  



8 Feb 2006 @ 20:18 by A Dane @86.52.105.106 : to reha
Reha you wrote,
TURKEY IT IS A MORE MODERN COUNTRY THAN MANY WESTERN COUNTRIES I HAVE BEEN ( I HAVE BEEN IN 48 COUNTRIES OF VARIOUS RELIGIONS WORLDWIDE )
----
What western country’s was that? And - why are millions and millions of your muslim friends going to Europe if it’s so good in TURKEY.
Glad to see people there can protest in a civilized manner.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 20:34 by reha @81.214.130.185 : Ottoman imperialism
Dear Franch dude ,

What Ottomans did is not much different than what the Americans are doing now. We had the power at that time and were able to expand due mainly for imperialistic reasons. I do not think it is the right thing but unfortunately we are not the first one who did it and USA will not be last one . Yes we unfortunately had to do it with our swords as vibrani said since we did not have atomic bombs at that time. Therefore our task was much more difficult that the Americans. They are lucky ! that they obtain the results much faster with todays technology ! But I still insist Ottoman empire was by far the most tolerant empire of the world history if you consider the conditions of that time and compare it with the other states at the same time. Otherwise how could it survive for 624 years with a structure of almost 100 ethnicities , 3 religions and their related sub groups ( Sunni . Sii , Alevi , orthodox, catholic etc) . Can you imagine a muslim society living in any state in europe 5-6 centuries ago and having exactly the same and equal rights as the Christian society there!  



8 Feb 2006 @ 20:39 by Some French Dude @82.123.12.232 : ...very typical
Yeah, ok...

phase 1 : we didn't do it !
phase 2 : we did it after all, but it was the right thing to do
phase 3 : we did it and it wasn't then right thing to do after all, but other do it too ...
phase 4 : ... is somebody still listening ?  



8 Feb 2006 @ 20:45 by reha @81.214.130.185 : answer to the Dane
I have been many times in all the European countries except Denmark, the Scandinavian countries , Spain and Portugal. My personal opinion is that none of them has any advantage against my country to live there as long as you can have a job here. I think the major reason for our citizens to prefer to live there is economical. If they were able to find a good job here, I don't beleive they would insist to stay there. They all return as soon as they retire anyway. I personally would never ever think of leaving Turkey since I luckily have a good profession and earn enough to continue my life here.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 20:56 by reha @81.214.130.185 : French history
We have not forgotten by the way the imperialism of the French and their polite treatment to North Africans and how jealous they are since they cannot do it anymore because USA has the power to do it now.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 21:03 by Some French Dude @82.123.12.232 : ... another lie !
Reha : "They all return as soon as they retire anyway."

... so I guess the fact that cities like Evry or Epinay (near Paris) are packed with 3 generations of muslims who apparently hate us with a raging passion (even though we never did anything to them, except providing them with job opportunities and/or welfare) is from my imagination.

In France we have a stupid law called "regroupement familial" btw and it's the stupidest thing ever :
1 : some guy from, say turkey, enters France illegally
2 : he is employed illegally by someone so that the employer doesn't have to pay taxes
3 : liberal activists demonstrate in the streets (block public transportation in the process, but it's out of topic :) ) to "legalize" those poor illegal immigrants
4 : the guy from Turkey finally gets French citizenship or a long term residency right
5 : the "regroupement familial" law allows him to BRING ALL HIS FAMILY LEGALLY TO FRANCE

.. now that wouldn't be so bad after all if these people were willing to respect France... but after burning 10.000+ cars in 3 weeks last november because police VERY rightly ran after some kid who was stupid enough to hide in a power substation, I just wish it *were* true that they go home for retirement!  



8 Feb 2006 @ 21:07 by MacG @85.104.131.76 : ottoman imperialism
I don't understand one thing about the criticism of Ottoman's imperialism for instance saying they were trying to conquer Vienna.That was centuries ago and I don't hear you comparing it with United Kingdom or France or other countries that had the same Imperialistic politics. Was it any different what they did with the colonization and the slavery? I think it was worse.

In 1915 Turks were fighting against Australian soldiers in Dardanellas.
Now even today it takes like 24 hours to get from australia to Turkey BY Plane.
What the hell were they doing in here?

When you are talking about hundreds of years ago you should think about the times back in those years. Because everybody were savages back in those days if you think about it with todays perspective.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 21:17 by Some French Dude @82.123.12.232 : ...in those days
"everybody were savages back in those days "

VERY true MacG... so does that mean that I will never see the "holier than thou" attitude from muslims again ?

... or did you mean "everybody were savages in those days" ...[fine prints] except the muslims who just wanted to get their land back, were very tolerant, never forced anyone to do or believe in anything, always attacked to correct past wrongs and generally were all good and beautiful [end of fine prints]

.. just asking :-)  



8 Feb 2006 @ 21:23 by reha @81.214.130.185 : answer to very typical comment
What I am saying is that :
1)Yes Ottomans were imperialistic just like many other empires of the world history ( Romans, English, French , Dutch , USA etc.)
2) Whatever which was done that you name as mass murder or whatever was not done just for fun but they were mainly in answer to the same behaviour from the other party just like all the empires of the world history had always done.We are no different than French or English or Romans or Americans in that aspect.
3) Despite the historical facts above ,All our citizens have always had the same and equal rights in front of the state and law eversince the Ottoman and Turkey history regardless of their religion and ethnicity as long as they respected the law and regulations of the state.

This is what I beleive. You are free to beleive whatever you want.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 21:23 by GOD @143.111.117.58 : Itching for a war
People listen, Iran and the Middle East are itching for a war on Israel. Let me be one of the last to predict that something big is going to happen in the middle east this year. People are so miserable in the middle east with poverty. They are all seeking to blame somebody, thanks to the British they have the Jews. wonder what would have happended if the the Jews were relocated somewhere else? The US has its hands full after the stupid president went to war with IRAQ and AFghanistan, now it has iran with WEapons of mass destruction. NO more army left to go to war on iran. So all the people in the middle east have had a cremasteric reflex (raised their balls). It would be better for most of the world if GOD did not exist - even though i believe in him. Even if all this wasn't there Hate would still exist. If there was one god for everybody - then we still have greed and power to deal with. Religion is JUST and EXCUSE.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 21:24 by Some French Dude @82.123.12.232 : MacG
"I would agree wiyh you french dude if the police would be very rightly to run after a white french too.
But if the police is only rightly runs after immigrants there is a problem there. "

Police is right to run after anyone who commited a crime and may I add that if you run you don't have a clean conscience btw ;-)
... immigrants and "native" French alike... but it's true that immigrants commit most of the crime (I don't pretend to explain it here, but it IS a fact, so don't bother denying, just Google it)  



8 Feb 2006 @ 21:28 by J Thoma @70.110.249.150 : Cartoons cause this????
What a fucking world we live in, a few cartoons may just divide nations and really start a war. Its not like the pot wasnt already to boil,but these Fucking Towel heads will destroy the good life as we all know it.
It is a shame that they ( Muslim Freaks) have the money (oil) to really alter the entire worlds daily living, including the knowledge that their own "wackjob" followers are willing to kill themselves to take out an enemy (non-sand niggers).
I say FUCK THEM.... GO To HELL to all fucking those smelly desert crawlers  



8 Feb 2006 @ 21:28 by MacG @85.104.131.76 : in those days
to be honest most muslims countries are still back in those days.
(ı am a muslim from Turkey by the way)

And that's a whole another subject...
Why do they have that attitude?
Do Palestinians have another choice than throwing rocks at Israeli planes or suicide bombing?
Why they can't get themselves right?

We can talk about a million problems they have in the middle east...Non of which would justify violence.But before having an arrogant view against Islam , Muslims, Middle eastern people, and everything else one should try to see why it is so.With these other points of view you can understand the situation better.
( I don't mean you personally of course,I don't mean you are arrogant the general view I get on this forum from the Europeans is so)  



8 Feb 2006 @ 21:34 by Some French Dude @82.123.12.232 : in those days
"Do Palestinians have another choice than throwing rocks at Israeli planes or suicide bombing? "

Hell, yeah !... they could have accepted the 1948 Palestine partition... they could have accepted Barak's fair plan in 2000  



8 Feb 2006 @ 21:34 by Al @62.252.128.16 : ottaman empire
If in some islamic states woman have to keep covered up then why was it acceptable to have hareems or was this a result of just being powerful.Also my brother was in cyprus in the army and he said you often see turkish speial forces holding hands,kissing etc,and he was told that this is common,because some muslims or turks believe that the second messiah will be born from a man so it is ok to bum eachother.Now in all seriousneess was he being fed full of shit?I would like to know please on both points.
Answer to macg is that the aussies were there because winston churchill as first lord of the admiralty thought it was a good idea to open a southern front against the turks to releave pressure on the western front and to try and knock the turks out the war as allies to the germans.It was one large shit butty and a very bad idea.A blot on the otherwise formidable character of a great man.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 21:34 by steve @63.237.40.162 : vibrani
Good grief, as the philosopher Charlie Brown says. The level of uneducated, antagonistic, history-revisioned, hate-filled virtriol is amazing. I must have missed a few adjectives in that sentece. Due to the current violence, I was interested in the cartoons, so I looked them up. I subsequently found myself caught up in this blog. I did see a glimmer of hope in a few thoghtful, educated postings, such as yours, vibrani. I, too, am deeply concerned about the future of our planet and the human race. I fear we are standing at the crossroads of a very dangerous time. Anyway, vibrani, thanks for your postings and your historical perspective.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 21:36 by MacG @85.104.131.76 : about clean consciounce
quote SFD
"Police is right to run after anyone who commited a crime and may I add that if you run you don't have a clean conscience btw ;-) "

at first look it looks rational but, ıf you live in a mood where you think police might frame you for something you haven't done you might find it useful to run.

And another example at some point of his life Philip K Dick was so paronoid about the police framing him. Every time he saw a police car he turned himself in and said
-O.K I will take whatever blame you want to put on me please stop the torture.
:)  



8 Feb 2006 @ 21:44 by MacG @85.104.131.76 : Al
I didin't mean why they were there I mean What the hell they were there for?
That was because somebody said The turks even tried to get Vienna.What were they doing there? That's why I brought that up because I thing it is absurd for an Aussie to fight in the Dardanellas.

By the way what your brother was told is the biggest bullshit I ever heard in my life.It made me laugh but it also made me sad because your brother and many others actually believed it.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 21:47 by Some French Dude @82.123.12.232 : ...insinuation
"ıf you live in a mood where you think police might frame you for something you haven't done you might find it useful to run"

I guess you imply that French police is racist and that any muslim will naturally run even if pure as a newborn baby

... sure of course, everybody knows that police in France is very racist, torture muslims, insult their Prophet on a daily basis, rape their women and kill their children just for fun... some policemen are also Jewish and they drink blood from newborn muslim babies when muslim families are stopped for a traffic violation.

... but then again, admit it's a convenient excuse for running :-)  



8 Feb 2006 @ 21:53 by MacG @85.104.131.76 : al
Al sorry I forgot about the harems.
The Harems were closed to outside world actually they were like a huge palace of their own, had everything in it. And There was only one castrated male (haremagasi) in there who organized and runned the harem. othervise no male.the practice about the covering up is. ıt isn't necessary to cover up when there is no men present.

So the paintings and other stuff you see about harems is all made up off fantasies no one ever saw what was it like inside.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 21:58 by Al @62.252.128.16 : war
there are a lot of nut jobs out there as our leaders but surely the new iranian president tops them all.He is a believer in the coming of the 12th imam,and if you want to read about a crock of shit just type that into google.It is seriously worrying,what is also worrying that in my day to day life I have alot of contact with muslims of varying degrees of faith,because I live in a mainly muslim area in the Uk.I am proud to say My face is well known to many,I share food with them,laugh ,joke ,my daughter is always being given sweets by the locals and all in all the muslim community are very generous and kind people.
However when the persian grocer says it is american propaganda that a man has been put on the moon and it was all hollywood special effects.When another says 9/11 was an americaqn plot(I know all the rubbish spoken of that)and when another say's because he knows the Koran of by heart his parents when they die shall be seated on a golden bench with crowns upon there heads,and added to this my muslim driving instructor telling me that isreal is useing america for imperialistic invasion of the middle east ,so that when isreali and american forces are 100 miles from meddinah the messiah will come and world war 3 will start,then as a polite person ,with respect for others I smile and say nothing because they are nice people.HOWEVER.....in my mind I am looking at them and thinking you lot are seriously of your fuckin heads and who is feeding you this shit.It is like grabbing children and brainwashing them,and as anyone knows who reads old flashy,a man with a smile on his face and faith in his heart is a man to avoid.
That is why there will be a war becuase of this sort of mumbo-jumbo!  



8 Feb 2006 @ 22:03 by Al @62.252.128.16 : response
what I mean macg is the obvious differnces in the culture to allow a shaggin den but at the same time keep your woman sacred and covered to others,a bit hypocritical really.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 22:03 by reha @81.214.130.185 : immigrants in France
just be patient my french dude friend to get rid of the immigrantion to France. With the rate of the investments escaping from west towards east , a lot of companies moving to east you will get rid of your headaches since it will very soon be inattractive to migrate there anyway. The engineering company that we cooperate in France went into bankrupt and closed their offices just like many other companies. PSA , Renault are escaping from France due to cost reasons. Examples like this are increasing more more everyday . I don' t think you will have to wait too much to see the immigration to France to seize. Those immigrants will unfortunately try to find new destinations.  


8 Feb 2006 @ 22:15 by Some French Dude @82.123.12.232 : excellent !
"just be patient my french dude friend to get rid of the immigrantion to France. With the rate of the investments escaping from west towards east , a lot of companies moving to east you will get rid of your headaches since it will very soon be inattractive to migrate there anyway"

Wonderful, I can't wait !... we will unfurl the red carpet too and throw roses when you leave.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 22:16 by Hanan Taha @196.202.91.137 : hmmm
Now Holand and Belgium are OBJECTING on Muslims newspapers having competition on drawing cartoons on the HOLOCUST and America is convicting Iranian newspaper for the same reason...hmmmmm...where is the claimed freedom of expression then?????  


8 Feb 2006 @ 22:20 by jack @69.41.168.77 : kire khar to kose har chi danmarki
kir khar to kos zane tarahe in image ham
kire khar to koonet
marg bar danmark  



8 Feb 2006 @ 22:21 by steve @63.237.40.162 : hmmmm
Big difference between objecting verbally to something you believe is in poor taste and using violence and death to protest -- don't you think?  


8 Feb 2006 @ 22:28 by reha @81.214.130.185 : war
Al , pls don't be so pesimistic. Wars for the name of the religion, I beleive , is left in the past. Look at all the wars of the last decades and analyse to whom they serve. We have only to pray that a war of our country does not contain economical benefits to some party ruling the world !  


8 Feb 2006 @ 22:31 by Daryl @138.162.140.45 : cartoons
We need to remember that these are just cartoons. Where is the outrage when Muslims in Iraq are blowing up other Muslims all in the name of Islam? Sure, publishing the cartoons was insensitive, but is violence always the answer? Isn't that what the artist was trying to get across in his cartoons that Islam is a religion of violence? What are these people doing proving him right if he is indeed wrong?  


8 Feb 2006 @ 22:47 by Frank @68.143.110.195 : Muslim Cartoons
Do you get the point....they are commentary and cartoons! Does the word Satire mean anything to you??? Muslims claim to be enlightened and peaceful people....and now all this violence over some studid cartoons! Grow up already.....you live in this world.....and somethings you do and say are going to be made fun of......just like when you were a kid in school. You can begin to act like adults and have some discussions ....or act like school children and burn down embassys. After seeing all of this, I would not be suprised if more cartoons were released. I do respect the Muslim faith....as I respect all faiths.....and how I would like my faith respected. However, if I saw a cartoon from Saudi Arabia showing Christ hanging upside down or molesting little boys.....I would not burn down the embassy.....I might write a letter or work to show this type of cartoon in bad taste and not accurate.....but acting like a group of wild animals looting, killing and burning is not the answer.....it only adds fuel to the message the cartoons were meant to show in the first place. Religious zealots....hell bent on the destruction of the West and our culture. A very sad time for the Muslim world! I can only hope you see the light.....and move towards a more peaceful expression of your condemnation of these stupid cartoons..........Instead your actions have made them international headlines and now millions have seen them......  


8 Feb 2006 @ 22:50 by RI @163.251.0.29 : Foolish Muslims: they love religion...
Ha...Ha...This cartoons say alout about Islam. I don't care if there are a hundred thousand million decent, peace loving Muslims in the world. Extremism has stolen the day. Islam want't to take over the world and make everyone worship Alla by force if not willingly. Bah...

Islam is a religion of cooks...It is a religion where you can kill your family members for the sake of honor, kill someone for making a cartoon, kill yourself and as many others as you can in the name of Alla (and get a bunch of virgins to boot), deny women any rights outside the kitchen and bedroom, call everyone who is not a Muslim a infidel and therefore unworthy of even the valued somewhere between feces and a bug that eats feces, you can kill innocent people based on the actions of others through a principle of guilt by association, and on and on and on....

Bottom line it...Muslim's don't really care about the cartoons...they just want another reason to kill someone. If we are know by our actions over our words and Islam is a religion that demands action, then what are we to say of Islam? It is a dirty filthy religion because it breeds hate and intolerance and screw the rights and dignity of women, children, and the unbelieving.

I wouldn't trust a Muslim any further than I could throw one. Deep down inside, they all believe the world is theirs and there is no room for any other. These extremists are like the suppressed ego of the Muslim that walks around with a smile on their face pretending to emulate the love and affections of Alla and their prophet Muhammed. May Peace be upon him? Whatever. That is like the most disingenuous and contrived thing that could come out of a Muslim's mouth. Oh...peace be upon Muhammed, but screw everybody else.

Islam is the extreme end of the religious spectrum that worships rules and regulations above the real "likey" intent of Alla. The same thing happened in Jesus' time. The scribes and pharisees would kill anyone who did any work on the Sabbath. Well...like the scribes and pharasees were against Jesus, I think the extreme Islam fringe is going to here the same thing from their precious Alla that Jesus told the scribes and pharisees..."you brood of vipers...you are like whitewashed graved...on the outside your are clean...but inside you are full of dead men's bones...you love the high seat of honor and you make long prayers in public so as to be percieved by others as holy..."

Bah...idiots...

All this really makes me want to be a Muslim...  



8 Feb 2006 @ 22:59 by MacG @85.104.131.76 : iranian cartoons
well 5 months ago the cartoons were objected verbally too
then there was letters and emails anf phonecalls asking for an apology
then there was boycotts and then came violence.

So when objected verbally the response was fuck you muslims there is freedom of speech and the cartoons were and still is being published in many other papers.

Although I think the Iranian newspaper is doing wrong and Holocoust cartoons will hurt peoples feelings worse than the Danish cartoons, the same principle should have been applied if we are talking about freedom of expression  



8 Feb 2006 @ 23:22 by Some French Dude @82.123.12.232 : ... iranian paper
"Although I think the Iranian newspaper is doing wrong and Holocoust cartoons will hurt peoples feelings worse than the Danish cartoons"

... don't worry. Offensive cartoons are printed everyday in the arab press !... the joke will be on you (muslims) when you do print (as usual) the most offensive Holocaust cartoons and absolutely nobody will give a shit about it :-D.  



8 Feb 2006 @ 23:27 by MacG @85.104.131.76 : offensive cartoons
You never know, Bush might claim that there are offensive cartoons in Iran and invade it :)  


8 Feb 2006 @ 23:28 by AL @62.252.128.16 : response to reha
Reha,I am a pessimistic person becuase if anyone takes the time to look around, this world will one day end and it will only be the chance that we have travelled to the stars that the human race will survive.Putting that aside Are you insinuating what I believe is the excuse that christian and jewish clerics are putting about these days.Which is that the 20th century saw the greatest conflict and loss of life the world has ever seen due to fascist and communist ideologies.I dont believe this for a second.Hitler was a catholic and Stalin went to a seminary for a while.Was it the disgust at the christian religion that drove them to their evil.
Also it would be interesting to know the populations of the world in the past century's,in proportion to deaths by war.The romans did a good job,the egyptians,Alexander,genghis and kubla khan,who wiped out a million people in 3 days.The countless people killed in the americas by the spread of the christian faith,whole populations wiped out.The numbers slavery killed,not forgetting that it was the arabs that were a dab hand at that game long before the west jumped on board,and were helped by local african chiefs like the king of Dahomey in the 19th century who sat an a throne of skulls.Keep in mind that most civilisations had some form of religious order and killed in it's name,the inca's and aztezs spring to mind,then the thought that religions have never killed so many as the ideologies of the last century surely must be horseshit.Religious war is not a thing of the past as it is still closely linked to race,the balkans,indonesia,darfur etc,and although the west is more and more irreligious these day's it doesnt mean that we agnostic and atheists won't come to the point of joining our christian nutjob brothers in fighting Islam.I dont want to fight anyone and I'm gutted it may come to it, but when the battlelines have been drawn you got to choose your side.A life as we are including the happy clappy brigade or a life under islam.I know who I'll be fighting with.Praise God and pass the ammunition.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 00:12 by reha @81.214.130.185 : war anciety
Al ,

The main reason why you should not be worried about a religion war is that Turkish army , which is the most powerfull army of the muslim world, is indeed a very higly US dependent , oriented and controlled army. Also our economy is very fragile and sensitive to extraordinary events.We would not be volunteered for such a meaningless war where we have no economical benefit.Without us the rest of the muslim world cannot dare to start such a fight against west. On the other hand the only western military power is US and I don't think it is to their economical benefit to start a war just for religious reasons. I ignore the EU since they have no military power. Russia seems to be neutral in this issue and if they would want to do anything it would be selling weapons rather than fighting since they despirately need money for their economy. Let's assume for a while that the arabs will start this war . But they are not very famous with their ability to fight. The last war they had against Israel did not take more than a few days.Indonesians are too far away from the region. Malaysians are quite neutral and peaceful people.

Who the hell is really left to realize this war.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 00:33 by Saliya @222.153.245.167 : Puzzled
I am puzzled to see and hear all these protests and reactions on a subject of some cartoons. I am a Buddhist from Sri Lanka. You all know to what extent the Cristians use the image of Buddha for commercial purpose, and now the devine image is used for decorations. How the Afghanistan muslims distroy the world biggest buddha statues. I thought the muslims were crazy. But thanks to Al Queeda, now the West has realized there are terrorists. I am still puzzled. I wish there is no religion, no nationality, no race, no country or no "I" in this world. So everybody will die and untill then we all will live together.

BUDUSARANAI.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 00:53 by flano @61.88.19.2 : why now?
Has anybody bothered to ask the question of "Why now?"?

Six months ago these cartoons first appeared why the violence now?

And let's just make sure everyone is CHRYSTAL CLEAR on this issue.

1. Just because one has the right to free speech automatically carries with it the obligation of self-censorship. Society does not work without it.

2. Just because one has the right to protest automatically carries with it the obligation not to cause harm to others.

Apply these two tests to the current situation and the following deductions are made.

In the first test the newsmen resposible for the images seeing the light of day are not interested in journalism and are simply after the hype at best - haters at worst. What was so news-worthy of these cartoons that made the editor say to himself "If I don't print these my fellow Danes will kill themselves"?

The second test concludes that the people offended are beyond reason and have shown the venom of their "convictions" all to clearly. What rational person wakes up one day and says "I'm so angry I have to burn something and kill a few people"?

Parting thought - Why would a man (a term I use very losely when describing a child molester) not want his picture drawn? I can understand a God not wanting statues pictures etc - but why a man?

Flano:  



9 Feb 2006 @ 00:57 by Person J. Guy @157.22.253.40 : Let's Not Categorize People
I'm from the US, not intentionally mind you, and I don't have any problem with Muslims. Please, come to California. Welcome. Enjoy your stay. Not all people who live in the US are ignorant cowboys. Some of us are quite nice and like yourselves are just trying to get by, eat some good food, raise some kids and have a bit of fun along the way.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 01:00 by Michael @167.193.44.38 : offensive
I get offended every time Bush opens his lie-hole.
But, I have not killed anyone or burned anything --YET  



9 Feb 2006 @ 01:06 by flano @61.88.19.2 : offensive
Precisely, Michael - that's what we call rational.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 01:11 by WB @67.173.33.50 : Real Confused
If Islam is an offspring of the Orthodox faith and the Orthodox are Christians who believe in Jesus Christ who was born a Jew, why do the muslems hate the Jews??  


9 Feb 2006 @ 01:13 by WB @67.173.33.50 : Slow learners
"Six months ago these cartoons first appeared why the violence now?"

Because it took them that long to figure it out!  



9 Feb 2006 @ 01:27 by flano @61.88.19.2 : First Joke
Well done WB - It think you cracked the first joke about this debacle!

As the hatred - its hard to work out. Easier to ask who they like.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 01:42 by WB @67.173.33.50 : Who do they like?
It seems like they don't like ANYBODY.
The sucide bombers kill more of their own than the so-called "infidels".  



9 Feb 2006 @ 01:55 by A Dane @86.52.105.106 : Peace!
I wish to believe that there are fare more good Muslims than bad one’s.
So why is it that a few percent of one billion Muslims have the power to dominate the rest?
Who keep the fanatic Islamic Muslims alive and why?
We can’t go on like this it has to stop. Use your energy on something else. Why do so many Muslim countries still have dictators? Use your energy to remove them and get a live.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 02:21 by Holger Dansker @199.126.247.92 : Mohammed & Followers
Please note that all Muslims in Denmark will be transferred to Israel
and will be converted to the Jewish fate...

Good luck all  



9 Feb 2006 @ 02:36 by flano @61.88.19.2 : extremes
Intersting question "Who keeps the fanatic...alive and why?" At its crux is the question "Why keep the fanatic alive?" Answer "why" and you have "who".

The ability to rule absolutely stems from an ability to control the masses absoltuely.

As an example is the hatred card. The need to have a loyal and adoring public is to keep them dependent on you and to keep them focused and angry at your enemies. Countless nations use this practice (think war propaganda from WW1 to the present) and humans are stupid enough to be done over by it over and over again.

Chuck a holy cause into the mix and you have a people commited for life! And it works both ways. Here in the land of Oz - this exact thing is going down!

For the last few years the fear campaign started with talk of a threat from the north (ie Indonesia & why anyone thought their army would be better at handling the logisitic nightmare of invasion than the army of Japan from WW2 is anyone's guess) but fear only earns the people's trust. Hatred is the reaction that tips them over as was seen in a couple of riots in Cronulla NSW before Christmas 2005.

Over to the court of Public Opinion.

So why would it be of benefit to have a few percent out on the edge and extreme?

Why is it neccessary to have unquestioning hateful followers?

F:  



9 Feb 2006 @ 02:45 by vibrani : Holger
LOLOL but what makes you think Israel would want them?  


9 Feb 2006 @ 03:45 by Hush little babies @64.114.107.128 : Stupid kids
There are about approximately 4000 Minor and major religions here on earth, If there is a god he made earth for a purpose, to enjoy life, to embrace it, to feel all the emotions that exists through out life, Depression, Happiness, Love, Hate, Courage, and so on. There is so much in life. If there was a God id'e say that he would want you to be Righteous and good but to rely on your heart and your mind not the Quran or the Bible, There is some good and some bad things in the Bible and the Quran, maybe god made it a challenge too see who would choose the good or the bad out of the bible as a test. Don’t believe entirely on what people say neither (Muslim clerics, Priests, atleast make sure his words are of good) because there are so many out there who are full of shit and full of sin, be wise and think things over do not be deceived. The majority of people who are bad had a bad child hood, had a bad life, they were sexually molested, they were beaten by their parents, the circle of sin. If there was a God id'e say he made us to help out each other, to go and help the people who are suffering world wide, there is allot of trouble on earth, that trouble is a challenge for you to go and fix, the challenge of god. If God is real id’e say hede want us to go and fight the Tyrants of the earth.

There are about approximately 4000 Minor and major religions here on earth, why Islam? Why a Catholic? Why an Evangelical? Why a Hindu? Because the masses that surround you believe in it as well? because your friends belive in it? Be strong, be respectful, be courageous, be Good, God understands that we are Confused, there are 4000 relegions out there and countless liars, ask for forgiveness, If he truly loves us he will understand.

Do not be Deceived, be wise, rely on your heart and your mind. Do good.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 03:51 by Captain Ron @68.235.145.232 : Muslim Anger
You have got to be joking, with the crime and corruption that takes place in many of these Muslim countries including, but not limited to murder, rape, drugs, human rights abuse, female abuse and they want to get worked up over a silly cartoon!! More like an excuse to vent their anger over the US illegal invasion of Iraq is more like it; more likely a protest of western culture and the current idiot(GW-Mr Switch grass) running this nation. Sad to see so many Muslim's not living by the teachings of the Great Mohammed, maybe they NEVER read the book????
We should ALL be able to take a little fun poked at whatever your beliefs may be, if you CAN NOT earth IS NOT the planet for you!!
I must admit I find it rather absurd, childish, unfaithful, deviant, criminal behavior-much like the countries they live in!!  



9 Feb 2006 @ 03:54 by DA NICK @71.194.99.144 : LITTLE PUNKS
cryin about a cartoon we should wipe out all those fools rioting in the streets. Muslims seem to cause nothing but trouble between being terrorists or just being like the scum of the earth.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 04:37 by d e @69.221.207.197 : get a sense of humour
so much hate. and yet the people espousing it are meant to be very "religious" - if thats the case i am confused - does being devout mean hating anything different or a contrary opinion and having no sense of humour - be able to laugh at yourself , and if you really find it disrespectful turn away and leave it at that - certainly don't hate. I just dont get religions that see violence as an option.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 04:50 by HAHAHA @64.114.107.128 : HHEHEHEHE
9 Feb 2006 @ 03:45 by Hush little babies @64.114.107.128 : Stupid kids

I tottaly agree with you Hush little babies, thats some heavey shit you put on
there I think there should be more people like you.

What i find funny about
these Muslim fanatics is that they put so much effort in Killing Millions of
innocent people and burning down embasys over some lame ass pathetic looking drawings (that my 2 year old brother could draw better)Rather than saving forests or fighting for womens rights or Saving Wales or getting involved into "GOOD FOR HUMANITY" TYPE OF SHIT! THIS IS NOTHING COMPARED TO WHAT I HAVE SEEN STILL! I have found that the media is such a big pussy, there are many things you all havent seen, Now i am reaveling them too you

[link] ( watch how they brain wash their children to kill israli soldiers

[link] ( WARNING BEAHEADING )

http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/audio/eugene-armstrong-beheading-video.wmv( WARNING BEAHEADING)


[link]
(DISGRACULL TO OUR COUNTRY! WATCH THIS ONE AS THEY STEP ON OUR FLAG IN NY!)

[link] (watch how they shoot an american soldier and chant allah
akbar!)

watch all of them, dont be blind to the truth, remmember 9-11!! AND THIS IS NOTHING!! IVE SEEN FAR WORSE ATROCITIES CAUSED BY THESE FUCKING LUNATICS!! FOR THOSE MUSLIMS THAT CONDEMN TERRORISIM MAY ALLAH BE WITH YOU, FOR THOSE WHO SUPPORT TERRORISM AND DEATH AND LUNACY FUCK YOU! YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TAKE LIFE!! IF YOU BELIVE IN ALLAH SO MUCH WHY DONT YOU FUCKING LET HIM HANDLE IT YOU BABBY KILLERS!! I SEEN IN INDONISIA CHRISTIAN SCHOOL GIRLS BEING BEHEADED JUST BECAUSE THEIR FAITH!! YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TAKE LIFE!!! WE ARE ALL HUMAN BIENGS!!! WE ALL DIE ANY WAY YOU SONS OF BITCHES!!!  



9 Feb 2006 @ 05:13 by NoOneOf Importance @72.139.115.182 : Whoa........ can we talk before we yell

If we want peace, we must never again think of Ethnic Cleansing.
We can live together on this tiny tiny planet if we talk before we yell.
If we talk, the yelling will lessen.
Too much hate and anger and war and revenge is going around lately.
Too many people pointing the finger, giving the finger, pulling the trigger finger.
Too much negativity floating around, blowing in the wind, blowing up buldings.
Too much re-invented hell for all of us.
We are all so very very tired.
Put down the sword, put your tongues back in your mouths
Go fishing, listen to Mozart, Pray to YOUR god, Plant a tree.
Too much fire feeding the already too frenzied furnace.

If you give attention to a child taking a tantrum.
The tantrum will continue. Attention is a human trait.
If you ignore the child talking a tanturm
The child will quiet.

Take a walk, smile and say hello and become peace, walk and talk of peace, emulate peace, become nothing less.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 05:29 by ra_who @69.167.20.187 : buffoon Dr Shred
You don't get it, do you? Still seeking meaning in life by welling up a heart full of anti-american hatred - and you're an american. The cartoon expressions are a free speech issue. These muslims wish to silence anything their leaders call bad. You freely complain of american atrocities. And you should be able to. But when they come to murder me and my family in the name of Allah and peace, I will fight to the death. After all, it's not a matter of if I die. Just when. They do not know Allah or peace. And Dr Shred. You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 05:59 by HAHAHA @64.114.107.128 : HHEHEHEHE
Only if we had more people like NoOneOf Importance and Hush little babies, you guys made some really great points and thoughts, I for one dont see it as easy though, I dont think this world will last any longer, Look at the president of iran, he claimed that he saw a Light in the sky comming down apoun him and that he talked to allah that he had no fear at the UN meeting, and hes trying to Aquire Inriched Uranium!? breaking all the rules and he claims that he is a prophet Of Mohammad, Its just a matter of time untill the first Uranium filled Nukes hail down on earth, I remmember Visiting New york Ground Zero As i was looking at the massive crater it woke me up to reality I was thinking about those who had died and it gave me this Great sence of Vulnerability of an attack, we are not safe with people like this.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 06:26 by Rene David @66.167.172.163 : What do muslims want?
I consider myself a tolerant and educated American: I speak several languages, have lived on three continents, and believe strongly in the importance of respecting others' ways. The muslim world, however, is truly a challenge to my tolerance. How do muslims expect the world to see them? They demolish other faiths' icons (see the piles of rubble at Bamiya) and then take profound offense when theirs are even DEPICTED in a less than adoring light BY NON-MUSLIMS. They complain that they are unfairly portrayed as senselessly violent, and then execute an old woman who had married into their faith and dedicated her life to helping THEIR poor. They constantly strut with bravado about the weakness of the West, as if Western military force unleashed (with the same arbitrary chaos as they themselves so often exhibit) would not decimate their fragile societies. I used to concur when I heard moderate muslims express their surprise at being lumped with the bloodyhanded extremists among them. Now, when I hear the muslim world decrying this latest great offence, all I can picture is the crowds of dancing Palestinian children dancing on our flag on September 12th. ::sigh::  


9 Feb 2006 @ 06:34 by vibrani : Carlos Santana
on the Grammy Awards tonight reminded people of something (in Hebrew):
Kadosh kadosh kadosh adonai zevaot melo kol ha-aretz kvodo, holy, holy, holy is Adonai Zevaot; the whole world is filled with God’s glory. Let there be peace everywhere.

Even the angels in heaven (according to Jewish tradition) each of whom has a special responsibility, an expertise, or a concern, kulak knead omni vomit b’yirah stand united in their reverent praise of God with that saying.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 08:24 by David @203.144.167.68 : Tolerance
I used to live and work in Saudi Arabia for three years. In Saudi I was prohibited from practicing my own religion, drinking alcholol, socializing with the opposite sex (In Saudi two people of the opposite sex are not even allowed to be friends unless they are related. In restaurants there is a section for men and a section for families) There are no cinemas or any form of social entertainment. The newspapers will de-face a picture of any religious symbol that is not islam by using a black magic marker.

Did I find this frustrating? Yes of course. Did I complain? No I did not. I don't agree with it but it was not my place to complain. If this is what the people of Saudi want then so be it. I was a guest in their country.

In Europe we allow freedom for all (including muslims) to practice their own religion and express their opinions freely. As a result of this wonderful freedom issues will be raised that will cause debate. The cartoons is such an issue. Debate I think is the key word here. A good debate as a result of these cartoons could be centered around why the west currently has a negative opinion of muslims. Have the muslims brought this upon themselves or is has the western media portraid all muslims to be evil?

The reaction from the muslim world over these cartoons is really only fueling the fire when it comes to demonizing muslims. I myself have come to the point where my tolerance is being tested to the limit. I now have very little empathy for muslims. I feel strongly that the demise of the muslim faith is going to be caused by the muslims themselves.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 08:33 by Just me @83.202.120.29 : For the record...
"...[T]he Prophet (Muhammed) said to her (Aisha), 'You have been shown to me twice in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and someone said (to me). 'This is your wife.' When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said, 'If this is from Allah, it will be done.'"
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 5:58:235)

"[T]he Prophet (Muhammed) married her (Aisha) when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death)."
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 7:62:64)

"Narrated 'Aisha: 'I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the Prophet (Muhammed) and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it (water spots were still visible).'"
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 1:4:229)

"Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet (Muhammed), and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me."
(Hadith: Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151)

"Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: When I got married, Allah's Apostle (Muhammed) said to me, 'What type of lady have you married?' I replied, 'I have married a matron'. He said, 'Why, don't you have a liking for the young virgins and for fondling them?' Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, 'Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'"
(Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17)

The cartoons were very soft, given what kind of disgusting bastard muhammad was !  



9 Feb 2006 @ 08:41 by Just me @83.202.120.29 : ... now about (adult) women
Omar reported from the Holy Prophet (Muhammed) who said, 'No man shall be questioned for beating his wife.'"
(Al Hadis, Vol. 1, p. 215)

"The prophet said: 'When a man calls his wife to bed and she does not come, the husband spends the night being angry with her, and the angels curse her until morning. The one who is in heaven is displeased with her until the husband is pleased with her.'"
(Sahih hadith, chapter 558)

"The Prophet (Muhammed) said: 'I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful.' It was asked, 'Do they disbelieve in Allah?' (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, 'They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you.'"
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 1:2:28)

"Abu Sayeed al-Khodri reported that Muhammed was talking to a group of women when he said, '... I see the majority of you will go to Hell.' The women asked why, to which Muhammed responded, 'You often curse and are ungrateful to your companions.'(1) He then told them they had a basic defect in their nature, to which they responded, 'How?' Muhammed answered, 'Is not the attestation (knowledge and witness) of a women only worth half of a man's? And that is on account of her short intelligence.'"
(Al-Hadis, Vol. 3, p. 137)

... just sad that so many poeple actually belive that this guy is holy.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 10:42 by hanan Taha @196.202.85.197 : answers to your questions
Wait a minute,
i see here non-muslims describing muslims' feeling and situatuion as if they do really live with them...what's wrong with u?
however,I'll answer all your questions in a more civilized and quiet way:
Why we delayed the protest on these cartoons for 4 months? because muslims embassadors during that period has tried to reach the Danes prime minister and he didn't bother to meet them.then the newspaper has published the cartoons AGAIN.just then Muslims has got offended ( by the reaction not only the cartoons).
Why Do Muslims always react by violence? Not all of them.very afew of them who are really psychics.the other 2 billions are good and civilized expressing an objection using the boycott.

Why do not muslims be funny and accept the freedom of speech? for two reasons: first, free speech has limits because europian writers and cartoonists expressing doubts about the HOLOCUST are being convicted for hurting the feelings of the jewish people.Second, as far as Europe has respected the jews feeling,we want Europe to consider this for us - muslims-too. YOU CAN MAKE FUN OF OUR LEADERS...YOU CAN MAKE FUN OF STUPID BIN LADEN , BUT PLEASE DON'T MESS WITH ISLAMIC SYMBOLS ( MOHAMMED (PPUH) , THE HOLY QURAN AND GOD).

I also wanna conclude a speech of Mohammed ( PPUH) : " The who hurts non-muslims has actualy hurt me and thus who has hurt me , has actualy hurt GOD)...see?

I have a question for you, Why did Europe convict Iran for doing the competition to draw the holocust while being openminded with free speech?  



9 Feb 2006 @ 11:36 by Hanan Taha @196.202.85.197 : women in islam
Just me > The way you express Islam disrespect to women is too shallow..u should have asked muslims about the meanings of the Hadith u have concluded before you judge on them.

I'm a muslim woman and I'm the most appropriate one to reply to you:

No man shall be questioned for beating his wife????
For God's sake , someone beating his wife is cursed in Islam and the wife has the full right to demand a divorce.This HADITH you have concluded is forged.

I didn't wanna talk about sex here,but I have to...
Mohammed peace be upon him has urged men to respect their wife needs telling them not to force her for sex and to do some proposals for sex like a kiss " and don't jump on her like an animal" said Muhammed peace be upon him.

when he said that women will be the majority of hell inhabitants...IT WAS A WARNING TO THEM NOT A STATEMENT !!! u r right to misunderstand it , but since , as u think , they might be the majority,he could have not tell them to avoid the reason,but in fact he said that as a proplogue to tell them to avoid bad actions and bad talking that may lead them to hell.

The rest comes further...  



9 Feb 2006 @ 11:47 by Hanan Taha @196.202.85.197 : women in Islam
Mohammed ( PPUH) didn't die praying or reading Quran...he died while his wife AISHA) is hugging him.

Muslims girls here in muslims countries are having full education and their family will be convicted by law if they try to deprive them from education.

Mohammed ( PPUH) said: " Those who has daughters and he has tought them,fed them and took good care of them will be sent to heaven"  



9 Feb 2006 @ 12:07 by Tom Dennis @220.247.252.222 : Cartoons
I wanted to take a look at those controversial cartoons. Since religion is a very sensitive issue I probably wish that they were not drawn (I am not religious anyway). I can understand the anger of Muslims. I’d also like to hear their voice as to why they kept quite when Taliban destroyed the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 13:04 by Hanan Taha @196.202.85.197 : answer to Tom Dennis
Tom Dennis > What Taliban did is totally refused as Islam urges to respect other peoples' religions and temples. I don't agree with most of what Taliban does.
TALIBAN DOES NOT PRESENT ISLAM.
Sometimes they do bad actions that are - unfortunately- generalized to whole muslims.
And No one would ever blame Budhists if they have protested.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 13:21 by mishka @168.209.98.35 : they are all the same!
those fanatic islamists are not in the minority. if you give those crazy arab countries a free and fair elections, they islamist radical parties will take 90%. they are all the same! 10% of good muslims dont count for me!  


9 Feb 2006 @ 13:59 by Rick @216.175.101.69 : Virginia Freedom of Religion
Political cartoons express political or social messages through caricatures of current events or well established stereotypes. Metaphors, symbols, and satire are tools of the trade.

The meer fact that a message is objectionable to someone is not shocking. That's the point of these things ... to make you think.

That this particular caricature would be considered Blasphamous to Muslims is understandable, in hindsight. (I am now a bit more educated - I couldn't have predicted that before). That this particular caricature would result in protests is understandable. That this particular caricature would result in riots, deaths, and death threats is NOT.

Sorry, that goes over the line separating church and state. It is a line I wish existed throughout the Islamic world (Ummah).

I was raised in Viginia [USA]. James Madison and Thomas Jefferson wrote possibly the finest works on this subject. Madison's Memorial and Remonstrance was written in opposition to a bill, introduced into the General Assembly of Virginia, to levy a general assessment for the support of teachers of religions. The assessment bill was tabled, and in its place the legislature enacted Jefferson's Bill for Religious Liberty.

Please consider reflecting on them. Just Google "virginia freedom of religion" or use these links ...

Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, James Madison, 1785
[link]

The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom, Thomas Jefferson, 1786 [link]  



9 Feb 2006 @ 15:15 by vibrani : America
was founded by very enlightened beings, for the time. "Those who sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither"--- Ben Franklin  


9 Feb 2006 @ 15:40 by colin @88.106.71.13 : cartoons of mohammed
I know why the muslim world is up in arms at the cartoon of their prophet mohammed its because they are tyrying to get their religious ways into the wsetern world and with all the media attention they are having since 9/11 and even further back than that since the crusades even, the only true Living God is Almighty God the creator of this universe and even the prophet mohammed (i say prophet becasue the name prophet is used lighty ) Jesus Christ is the true saviour of this world and there will come a day when every knee shall bow before his presence even mohammed dont belive me read the Bible it is the only truth ot mankind that is truth today I wonder why the muslims are trying to defend a dead prophet when I as a christian believe that the God can fight his own battles and there is no neeed for christians to try to defend Christ despite the ridicukle and mockery that has been shown to him down through the centuries, Jesus said on the cross "father forgive them for they know not what they do" we as christians are taught to forgive and can expect persecution etc. My prayers are the muslim people who are seeking truth and forgiveness which can only be found in the person of the lord Jesus Christ I will expect alll sorts of emails to come after posting this but will still pray for the muslim people because the Bible says in John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever beliveth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. My God is a God of love and forgiveness , is Allah a god of love and forgiveness ?? ask yourself this quiestion  


9 Feb 2006 @ 15:45 by vibrani : What is the difference
between your fundamentalist views or those of the fundamentalist Muslims? None! You each think yours is the only God, the only way. That's crazy. I don't trust any fundamentalist religious freaks.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 15:48 by Todd @12.109.41.2 : I'm Not Muslim Dammit
I don't care about what muslims think is right and wrong, and I don't have to live by their law nor even respect it. I also agree with the war on iraq and feel that every time a muslim commits a violent act, we should be closer to banning them from not only America but our alies as well.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 17:02 by ef @85.176.95.158 : Cartoons printed in Egypt
Please check 'egyptiansandmonkey.blogspot.com'. The cartoons were first reprinted in Egypt on 17 Octobre 2005, long before they even appeared in Norway. No outcry, no threats, no sacking of editors. 'freedomforegyptians.blogspot.com' sees that as that "a sign that this violent response to the cartoons is politically-motivated by Muslim extremists in Europe and the so-called secular governments of the Middle East".

He may not be so far off.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 17:04 by AL @62.252.128.16 : response toHanah taha
I try to keep an open mind on most things Hanah And seeing as you are a muslim woman and I have only read the first 200 hundred pages of the Koran before putting it down in bewilderment,can you tell me if it is true about the prophet and the 9yr old girl? Now what I have to consider is the time this took place,life expectancy in the 7th century was'nt great so people married young,but to consumate a marriage I would presume a female has to be able to have children i.e.have a pre menstrual cycle.Takeing this into consideration you may be able to come to the conclusion that sex with a young female is legitamate in a certain period of history(no pun intended)However 9 is pushing the boundaries of biological logic.Could you please clear the matter for us interested ,respectful non-muslims please,because otherwise The situation sounds a bit dodgy.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 17:10 by Al @62.252.128.16 : response to colin
Colin you and your kind are not far off the muslim extremists,although peace in word and action is usually paramount.Is it me or is it also the way language is used by the religious that is worrying.We arent in the 7th century and all the praise be holier than thou speak smacks of an underdeveloped nature that has'nt caught up withe the modern age!  


9 Feb 2006 @ 17:19 by KS @128.193.161.143 : My 5 cnets
I wish there was a more eloquent and civilized way to say this, but there is not. So here goes: WTF!!! ALL THIS SH*T OVER A F**KING CARTOON!!!???  


9 Feb 2006 @ 17:29 by uk boy @62.252.32.12 : religious war
as a uk resident living in 1 of the worst areas of the uk i cant belive poeple are blamin poverty for your actions that is stupid. And to the person who said christians started 2 world wars and killed jews need to see what we did to stop that shit, u muslims kill people because of there race u have been brainwashed and ur to thick to see it and isreal is the land of the jews so it is there land keep ur hands off i respect every faith except islam to me there all a bunch of jokers nothing u can say to me or millions of brtions to change how we feel its to late  


9 Feb 2006 @ 17:37 by vibrani : Why is Norway
suddenly the topic? The cartoons appeared in Denmark. EF, I agree, it is politically motivated. David, I think Muslims who live outside of the western free world are deprived of so much. With so much suppression of and control over a natural, normal free spirit, how can people not be messed up? Every step is planned for them, everything is rigid, stubborn, no flexibility. Those that believe that way with all of their hearts can't hear another viewpoint. And those that are still in touch with their souls probably go through hell with inner conflicts. There is NO WAY that I, as a woman and a mother, would ever put my children through what Muslim women demand of their children. That is akin to torture, slavery, murder, the worst degradation of a human being, and the worst kind of disrespect for God.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 17:42 by uk boy @62.252.32.12 : u aint scary
and i have heard they bombs our countries to try and scare us. hahaha u must be jokin if i wana go on holiday i will go on the plane not worrin at all if they want to hijack my plane they will have to get passed me and my crew first and let me tell u that it aint gonna happen get it in ur head if u look like a muslim in our countires we watch everyting u do. They cant take over where to big to strong and to cleaver for u uneducated muslims. I have read things saying muslims had many wise men throughout the ages wats gone wrong nowadys.You people should count urself lucky because ur in a much better suitiuation then some people in africa and central america. And finally if u wants us to get out of iraq u need to stop this jihad shit because u cant beat europe and america when were together dont u see that ur goin in circles and its ur own fault look who the new leader of iran is a fuckin terrorist and u wonder why we print cartoons your all a fuckin bunch of jokers u got prblem come to uk and we will c oh auctully you will proberbly be here soon anyway leavin off the fuckin taxes i pay and i am fed up with this shit and im only 19 by the time i hit 30 whos knows what i will be thinkin if ur a muslim dont be disrespctful to any other religion when i there taht will be big mistake trust its already happened try in again u stinkin muslims its like the new nazis and look what happened to them dont make th e same mistake  


9 Feb 2006 @ 17:45 by ef @85.176.95.158 : egyptian reprints
Sure they did appear in Denmark. But until now, Norway was thought to have been the first country to reprint them. Well, so now we know that Egypt was the first country that did a reprint, and no outcries heard. As this is circulating rapidly through the blogs, it may become impossible for the officials to claim religious taboos as source for their righteous anger. I mean, how can you demand that noone prints pictures of Mohammed, when one of their own did the first reprints?  


9 Feb 2006 @ 17:47 by vibrani : Oh yeah
it's bullshit - Muslims have depicted Mohammaed throughout the ages in art.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 18:03 by Eva @213.65.10.50 : Womens right
As a women living in sweden i am very afraid that this cartoons will make my goverment in Sweden so afraid for the muslims that they gonna let them take over our freedom , expecially womens right.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 18:07 by uk boy @62.252.32.12 : i love chrsitmas
i dotn know much about muslims but i dont think they are aloowd to lust women yet there alowed like 10 wives that is a joke can someone really love all ten of his wives it seems to me thay have wife for cookin a wife for cleanin and so on just dont make any sense can some one help me out on that because its seems u got ur wires wrong again  


9 Feb 2006 @ 18:21 by WB @69.209.58.6 : Whose God is right?
I think all religions actually worship the same God, but have their own way of doing it. So whose way is right and whose is wrong? Only God can answer that.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 19:20 by reha @81.214.130.185 : answer to miska about elections
You also say all muslims are extremists and would vote for the radikal party if they had the free elections. Totally wrong . We have 70 million Muslims in Turkey and thanks god we have full democracy and totally free elections since 1945. So far we only had 1 party which had Islamic opinions(even though not extremist but moderate ) and they could only get less than 1 % vote in their first election in early 70's. They were able to reach 21 in 90's due mainly to the very big frustration of the social democrat party and the wish of their supporters to try some other alternative. After having seen their actions as in the coalition on power , their vote decreased to 3 % in the last elections. That means 97 % do not support a party with Islamic opinions since religion is only between the people and the god and should not be used as a political mean to rule the country.

I also have several friends in Azerbaycan( ca 30 million population )and the religion has no effect on the elections there as well.

We two are more than the arab countries in population

Just for your information !  



9 Feb 2006 @ 19:20 by ulug @194.129.182.129 : insult
you can not trow apunch to see how peaceafull the men.Simply dinie the truth will get you know where,If youre blind its no one elses fault.Listen and feel try to open your eyes and see miracles are all araund us.You call Jesus I call Allah,These are high order abstractions u feel or not but do not sweare to my religion if dont believed.  


9 Feb 2006 @ 19:21 by Hanan Taha @196.202.90.175 : Plzzzzzzz
The conversation has taken another path.
Okay,People, wether muslims are fundamentalists or not...wether muslims are uneducated or not...wether muslims' culture is from the Dinosaur era or not, LET US ALONE !!! enough making jokes about our symbols which - even if you hate them- we do love them.Okay?
Why don't every nation mind its own business??
I said before...YOU CAN MAKE FUN OF OUR LEADERS, TERRORISTS EVEN STUPID BIN LADEN , but let our prophet whom we love aside please.
The caricatures we make about jews is not about MOSES itself ...it's about zionist leaders.We NEVER either critisize Jesus because our religion FORCES us to respect all prophets and all religions.
if some muslims don't do that and mess with other non-muslims,well,they are a punch of stupid psychics . That has nothing to do with Mohammed , so please don't include him.You don't know anything about him,okay? so don't judge on a dead person whom you don't know from a punch of psychics who are never true muslims.
Use your mind to diffrentiate please and don't mix things up.
I really got tired explaining the same point over and over again. I never expected western people to be that stabborn.
You want the truth about Islam? Look for it in its resources not from the media or those hoaxy books insulting it.
Peace be upon you all.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 19:39 by Just me @82.123.31.151 : ... politicians
The most courageous European politician is a woman ho was born in Somalia... take not, all of you brainwashed muslims who accuse all those who oppose islam of being racist !

[link]  



9 Feb 2006 @ 20:51 by Dr. Shred @192.45.72.28 : Mohammed cartoons
In response to ra_who (“buffoon Dr Shred”, “And Dr Shred. You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground.”), all the examples I list of U.S. sponsored terrorism are well documented (see the links, read the books). The problem is, as I said, most people, including you, are totally unaware of them. As an American citizen it is my duty to point these abuses out. What scares me are the undocumented examples. I don’t think the extent of U.S. terrorism is fully understood.

Why bring this up at all? Because, with all the simmering resentment in the Middle East and over the rest of the world against the U.S., it was only a matter of time before the U.S. was attacked. Whether or not you agree with Bin Laden’s rationale of 9/11, there were plenty of provocations that could be used as an excuse. And now, the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq have provided a catalyst that has legitimized extremist Moslem groups which were previously marginalized. Now, these groups could say, “We told you so”. Now, violent reaction to even a slight, highly exaggerated provocation, like the Mohammed cartoons, becomes more acceptable.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 21:07 by Al @62.252.128.16 : to reha
Reha its psyco's not psychic's and thank you for your comments ,but the whole problem about all of this is that most people take their views from the information in front of them,and unfortunatly thats the TV,whether your arab ,turk greek,brit or american most people dont have all the information in front of them and even then it comes down to how that information influences you.
I am not a muslim,I dont want to be,I dont want my child to be or be influenced by your teaching's other than the basics to understand that not everyone feels or thinks the same way,but that they can still live with each other in peace.
The cartoons make me think this;- 1-
that muslims out of a huge devotion to their prophet are insulted because for whatever reason, the prophet has been drawn when not supposed to,never mind the insinuation that he is a terrorist or that all muslims are terrorist's,which of course they are not.
2-that the west has a long tradition of representing god,jesus,moses the prophets etc in picture form whether it is for satire or worship,and that in western society not all may like this but that it is put up with in order to keep the peace,and that in it's self it is not insulting.
3-so for one it is an insult,for the other it is is not.The situation can be redeemed by respecting the wishes of the hurt party by not insulting that party again but it is not as simple as that.
4-If that means that the west cannot make a graphic representation of the prophet again for the rest of eternity,then that is not acceptable to people like me.the Reason for this is that justice and fairness in a balanced world has to be SEEN to be just that.There are too many injustices being seen in western countries whether rightly or wrongly when it comes to immigration and the question of Islam.
You cannot stop worship of one faith in one land and expect freedom of worship in another,you cannot expect treatment as an equal and not get it back in return.The west and especially britain for so long now has given everything over to political correctness that there is a backlash occurring,everything is given over to accommadate those from foriegn lands ,yet in the lands people are coming from we are not accommadated.It is not fair,britain is not Saudi and is a democracy but that means nothing to the common man in the street ,he see's others being given preferential treatment over himself,whether this is true or not and this is where the situation is getting dangerous and extremes come into play.
5-So to round off the cartoons are also about western sensibilities,We do not want to be influenced by your religion,we do not want to be told what to do.We take insults on the chin and try to become better than the person that throws them.In fact in britian I would say it is a test of a man's character to be able to take an insult and not retaliate.
As far as britain is concerned we have a pretty good multi-ethnic society that get's on quite well,but this will not last if it seems that the immigrant get's all the consideration and the original inhabitants get none.
6-So for the sake of peace take the whole thing with a pinch of salt,show us what you are made of and show us your strength of character.We do things our way here pretty well and you do your's where ever you are your way,It is a clash of temprement and cultures accept our faults please and we will accept yours in peace.  



9 Feb 2006 @ 21:11 by Al @62.252.128.16 : sorry that was meant for Hanan Taha
oops!  


9 Feb 2006 @ 22:17 by Wtfdude chill out @64.114.107.128 : Wtfdude chill out
THESE ARE THE PICTURES YOUR FIRE BOMBING EMBASIES FOR?!?!?! Oh Jeez Now im really worried about our Worlds Saftey, If your a muslim Go on google and click on the pictures section and type in "fuck jesus" you will see many many offensive Pictures You dont see a Christians Bombing Embasies!! fucking calm down ignore the pictures, If you belive in Allah so much why dont you let him Take care of it, Why dont you calm the fuck down and let him take care of the Revenge that you seek, I hope your not doing it just to get your 72 virgins after life. Plz calm down people your making your relegion look very very bad. These pictures arent even Good... shit i can draw better than that with my penis.

Let Allah Do his thing, As for you, Go do some Different type of protests Like for Human rights Or Save the trees or Global warming, Give your Self a better immage, Cause all im seeing Is fucking fanatics blowing them selves up into shit and Killing little babies beheading them and chanting allah ackbar while theyre doing it. Have a mind of your own too dont go listining to what people tell you. CHILL OUT!!!  



9 Feb 2006 @ 22:37 by MISHKA @168.209.98.35 : PEOPLE WITH NOTHING TO LOSE
muslims are all the same. stupid with inferiority complex. sorry but you will never be as clever as the european or jewish people. you are always at the bottom. thats why you wanting to kill yourselves and as many people. thats why islam is for all the loosers of the world. PEOPLE WITH NOTHING TO LOSE!  


9 Feb 2006 @ 23:09 by Al @62.252.128.16 : mishka
mishka you are an arsehole,most european or western maths is taken from the islamic world,astrology also.Have you seen the Alhambra palace in Granada Spain.Muslim architecture at its finest and for it's time there is no better example of man's union with nature through art.Let's give credit where credit is due EH?Idiot!  


9 Feb 2006 @ 23:23 by uk boy @62.252.32.12 : uk
i know for a fact that if there is one more fuckin cowardly bombin that me and my people aint gonna take this shit no more and im speakin on behalf of a lot of fuckin people there will be a war on british land against muslims trust me. Muslims say that british people are scared of the unknown thats why were after muslims. do we know fuck all about hinduism NO but we dont go afetr them do we.Because there decent people. were fukin u up beacuse u tried to fuck us up and that cant be done thank god for the western world freedom of speech is fuckin wonderful if i was in iran they would be after my head stupid idiots. Think who has the best god u cant do fuck all and get punished for it we do wahtever we want and live young and free u must be devastated you cant make a peaceful cicilistion thats the worst thing of all its like your about 500 years behind us still tryin to go on a crusade grow the fuck up other wise u wont get anywhere thats my opinon and because im livin in the uk i can what i fuckin like ha ha ha ha ha  


10 Feb 2006 @ 00:45 by Wtfdude chill out @64.114.107.128 : Wtfdude chill out
uk boy RIGHT THE FUCK ON !!!! IM WITH YOU MAN IM WITH YOU!!! NO WONDER THE AUSTRALIAN PEOPLE WERE RIOTING AGAINST MUSLIMS ( because a couple of Muslims Chased a Girl in a bikini Because they said she was a discrace to god and they attacked her ) Fucking cowards will kill anything to get 72 Virgins, They will kill babies in Cribs, Fucking sick fanatical bull shit, KEEP YOUR FUCKING FANATICAL RADICAL VIEWS TO YOUR SELF!!! WHY DONT YOU GUYS GO AND FUCKING KILL REAL BAD GUYS LIKE THE MAFIA OR STREET GANGS BE LIKE REAL VIGILANTIES OR SOME SHIT THAT KIND OF SHIT WILL GET YOU TO HEAVEN, NOT SOME RANDOM BOMBING KILLING MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE, I BET YOU GUYS KILLED LIKE 3214021 MUSLIMS IN 9-11 I BET YOU THEERE WAS 1 MUSLIM IN THERE ATLEAST, ALLAH WILL NOT ALLOW THAT HE WILL SEND YOU TO FUCKING HELL. THINK YOU STUPID IDIOTS! STOP BEING SMALL MINDID FUCKTARDS!!! THIS DOSENT GO OUT TO ALL MUSLIMS CUZ THERE ARE SOME GOOD MUSLIMS OUT THERE BUT THERE ARE THOSE FUCKTARDS!!!! YOU GOOD MUSLIMS SHOULD GO OUT AND CONDEMN THESE ATTACKS!!  


10 Feb 2006 @ 01:13 by Anonymous @207.229.189.144 : RELIGION is the problem!
Islam is merely the worst case scenario of the real problem: fundamentalism itself. Christians in America blow up abortion clinics and want a Christian version of Iran. Zionist Jews invented the Truck Bomb in the 1930s. It's past time for humanity to give up the superstitions and get over it. As far as moslems and the cartoons, if the sandal fits...

Also, multiculturalism doesn't work well. Where I work, a place was used as a makeshift mosque by some moslems. But they'd wash their feet in a sink used by others to wash dishes. So, the "mosque" was fenced off. The problem here is the culture difference causing friction, completely unnecessary and in the name of "diversity". We need to re-think about if "diversity" is REALLY a good thing.  



10 Feb 2006 @ 02:18 by vibrani : Diversity
isn't so bad when it isn't forced all of the time. I find that in the large city in which I live ethnic groups tend to stick to themselves. In public schools and some private there is diversity, but at home people pretty much stay with people who share their culture and language with maybe a few exceptions.

Religious centers, temples, churches, mosques, do have mutlicultural events, and that's a good idea so people get to know more about others and then fear (and then hatred or stereotypes, and the sort) can't seep in to extent it can if people remain totally isolated.

Speaking only for myself, I don't think work places and public schools, public or governmental buildings should be places of worship or religious events. There must be separation of religion and state.  



10 Feb 2006 @ 04:06 by Rick @216.175.101.69 : Be responsible
Come on Anonymous ...lunatics exist in every society. Saying Religion is the problem ranks right up their with "Guns kill people". Sorry, some ONE holds the trigger. For others, it's not a trigger they use but their tongue. Same effect.

If I learned one thing from my Political Science professor, it's that the Left and the Right are not on a line but a circle. Swing too far in either direction and you reach anarchy. Not exactly a case of opposites attract but pretty darn close.  



10 Feb 2006 @ 04:34 by Tom Dennis @220.247.253.237 : Mohammed Cartoon
Dear Hanan you have kind of a logical point. And I don’t know where you live or how you live. But I’ll tell you something. I have been in the Middle East for sometime. And many (almost all the people) of the normal people really appreciated what Taliban did to those statues.

And it is funny I did not hear any Muslim saying that it is bad—of course except some people like you NOW.

And with regard to “ sometimes ” they do bad action sounds more like that Taliban had been a very good regime which made a small mistake which is forgivable?  



10 Feb 2006 @ 05:18 by Wtfdude chill out @64.114.107.128 : Wtfdude chill out
How the hell do you explain this, I dono about you guys But i think the Muslim Radicals are Holding the "GUN" right now. HAMMAS Winning the elections, Iranian President making Outrageous Statments, The Murder of Theo van Gogh by Psycho Islamic Nutbag, the madrid Bombings, The London Bombings, WTC 9-11, The new Jersy Fammily Massacare, Australian Riots, France Riots, Christian School girls Beheaded In Indonesia ON THE STREET ( fucking sick bastards ), MUCH MORE, AND NOW THESE STUPID RIDICULUS LOOKING CARTOONS! WHATS NEXT???, I dono about you guys but im sick and tired of this shit, I am very very Concerned with the safty of our world, its just a matter of time untill one of these sick twisted ass holes get alot of power (which they are doing so and trying, Ie. Hammas, Irans president, Eygeptian Muslim brotherhood ) there is so much information the media misses out on, By the way IRAN was taken over by Muslim fanaticals It used to be called PERSIA IF ANYONE REMMEBERS THAT!


[link]

http://www.masada2000.org/shosei-koda-beheading-video.wmv

[link]

http://www.foehammer.net/2005/06/thoughts.html

[link]  



10 Feb 2006 @ 05:54 by Rick @216.175.101.69 : Indoctrination, Wtfdude
Thanks, Wtfdude. Reality must trump theory, even when reality is horrible. Indoctrination explains it doesn’t it? What else can rationalize murder as a ‘statement’ but belief that the enemy is sub human. Any religious sect that embraces that combination is ... well ... evil. It can be stamped out by external force but it can only be solved from within. Note I said sect, NOT the religion.  


10 Feb 2006 @ 06:03 by Rick @216.175.101.69 : Indoctrination, Wtfdude
In anticipation of those telling me how wrong I am and how many ways I can die, nope sorry, you are wrong. That combination cannot be rationalized away. The ends cannot justify those means.  


10 Feb 2006 @ 08:43 by MISHKA @168.209.98.35 : BARBARIC MUSLIMS
muslims never invented anything! the want to use western technologies but not westerns values.they want respect, but really for what? for being barbaric and so stupid.  


10 Feb 2006 @ 13:39 by ali @81.214.130.185 : horse glasses
you europeans are all so stupid,racist, antidemocratic, double faced liers. You always keep saying that all people are equal but always prove that some are more equal. You have no idea about tolerance. You have always treated people separately according to their races, colors ,beliefs, social classes etc eversince the world history and it seems that nothing has changed now. I don't have any hope that it will change in the next few thousand years.  


10 Feb 2006 @ 14:44 by Hanan Taha @196.202.90.28 : ....
Wtfdude chill out > Stating the actions of terrorists ( who relate themselves to Islam which is not true),then I'll state some western actions against Muslims because every action ( invasion which is approved by most of u) has a reaction(terrorism which is not approved by most of us):

- U.S.A invasion to Iraq killing women,childern and raping young girls claiming it is a way make Iraq a free and democratic country, Bah!!...
- Torturing Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers in Iraqi prison ( Abou-Ghraib) including the sex assaults done by a psycho woman ( named England).
- Torturing muslims in Goantanamo prisons wildly.

Shall I continue? unfortonately, It is countless !!

Ah !! by the way, Denmark was the 1st country to approve the invasion to Iraq...just in case u say it is a neutral country..

at last, I didn't want this conversation to go on this way , but it seems u have certain ways of denying the FAIR way of thinking.  



10 Feb 2006 @ 14:45 by mishka @168.209.98.35 : loser union
nice try! do you think you are more democratic or less double faced liers?the thing is with you muslims, you are all looking for power. and bec you cant get that power trougt intelligence (bec you have non) you turn to islam which is the loser union, and bec its a violent cult that hate everyone, it does give you that false feeling of power.and thats all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  


10 Feb 2006 @ 15:45 by Some French Dude @82.123.16.170 : ...
Ali : "you europeans are all so stupid,racist, antidemocratic, double faced liers"

Look who is talking !... congrats Ali, you speak like a true double-faced muslim liar !

mishka : " you are all looking for power. and bec you cant get that power trougt intelligence (bec you have non) you turn to islam which is the loser union, and bec its a violent cult that hate everyone, it does give you that false feeling of power.and thats all"

Well said, I agree with you.  



10 Feb 2006 @ 16:35 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : Reapt the truth
Khamenei is wrong on equating Holocaust denial to publishing satirical cartoons that make political points on a religion hijacked by fundamentalists who are forcing taboos onto non-believers as well as believers. Imagine, that, I could invent a cucumber religion, that states anyone who eats a cucumber is committing blasphemy and must have their heads cut off. And IF YOU DARE PROVOKE ME FILMING YOURSELF EATING A CUCUMBER WE WILL GET YOU GOOD.


In some European countries they have banned Holocaust denial, because they equate it with telling a lie that insults the victims and hence it is considered libel. I think such laws are misguided, and so do among other countries Denmark and Norway. In these countries libel has to be proven on a case to case basis. And simply having an erroneous opinion is not enough unless it can be proven the opinion is based on deliberate lies designed to maliciously ruin reputations and cause financial harm.  



10 Feb 2006 @ 16:37 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : Repeat the truth
Khamenei is wrong on equating Holocaust denial to publishing satirical cartoons that make political points on a religion hijacked by fundamentalists who are forcing taboos onto non-believers as well as believers. Imagine, that, I could invent a cucumber religion, that states anyone who eats a cucumber is committing blasphemy and must have their heads cut off. And IF YOU DARE PROVOKE ME FILMING YOURSELF EATING A CUCUMBER WE WILL GET YOU GOOD.


In some European countries they have banned Holocaust denial, because they equate it with telling a lie that insults the victims and hence it is considered libel. I think such laws are misguided, and so do among other countries Denmark and Norway. In these countries libel has to be proven on a case to case basis. And simply having an erroneous opinion is not enough unless it can be proven the opinion is based on deliberate lies designed to maliciously ruin reputations and cause financial harm.  



10 Feb 2006 @ 16:40 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : tell the truth
Khamenei is wrong on equating Holocaust denial to publishing satirical cartoons that make political points on a religion hijacked by fundamentalists who are forcing taboos onto non-believers as well as believers. Imagine, that, I could invent a cucumber religion, that states anyone who eats a cucumber is committing blasphemy and must have their heads cut off. And IF YOU DARE PROVOKE ME FILMING YOURSELF EATING A CUCUMBER WE WILL GET YOU GOOD.


In some European countries they have banned Holocaust denial, because they equate it with telling a lie that insults the victims and hence it is considered libel. I think such laws are misguided, and so do among other countries Denmark and Norway. In these countries libel has to be proven on a case to case basis. And simply having an erroneous opinion is not enough unless it can be proven the opinion is based on deliberate lies designed to maliciously ruin reputations and cause financial harm.  



10 Feb 2006 @ 16:42 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : And the truth shall set you free
Khamenei is wrong on equating Holocaust denial to publishing satirical cartoons that make political points on a religion hijacked by fundamentalists who are forcing taboos onto non-believers as well as believers. Imagine, that, I could invent a cucumber religion, that states anyone who eats a cucumber is committing blasphemy and must have their heads cut off. And IF YOU DARE PROVOKE ME FILMING YOURSELF EATING A CUCUMBER WE WILL GET YOU GOOD.


In some European countries they have banned Holocaust denial, because they equate it with telling a lie that insults the victims and hence it is considered libel. I think such laws are misguided, and so do among other countries Denmark and Norway. In these countries libel has to be proven on a case to case basis. And simply having an erroneous opinion is not enough unless it can be proven the opinion is based on deliberate lies designed to maliciously ruin reputations and cause financial harm.  



10 Feb 2006 @ 17:12 by Some French Dude @82.123.16.170 : p
... why the 4x spam Anonymous ? :(

Btw, you are very wrong about the Cucumber Worshipper...most are quite moderate, normal people. Some of my best friends worship Cucumbers and I can tell you that none of them consider eating cucumbers a crime... only extremists will send you death threats for a salad.
... now of course, introducing Cucumbers in ANY other body cavity than the mouth IS blashphemy.

 



10 Feb 2006 @ 17:21 by Al @62.252.128.16 : some home truths
Lets be honest about a few things here.The war in Iraq is about oil and the dollar.Oil keeps the world moving at the moment and the american dollar is in the driving seat.If that is the reality of the situation then as far as I am concernerned the wars in Iraq and afganistan are a doudle edged sword.
Why the fuck would we the west want a nutter like Saddam,back stabbing us,invading his neighbours so he controls the oil,and then he himself antaganizes his neighbours into extreme measures so that you get a bunch of mullahs and fanatics in charge of the oil.You dont want that so we take the oil.Simple.If we can distribute the wealth a little along the way and make these countries more stable for our interests and in the long term theirs then even better.Religion starts going down the pan when you give people the oppurtunity to gain material wealth.Has anyone else noticed that the more money muslims get the less religious they are?they buy all the BMW, mercs etc and cruise the streets which is great cos then they arent goin to the mosques.
Cental asia is awash with gas and oil and unfortunately for the foreseeable future the powers that be need it .We need to invest in other technologies but that aint going to happen over night,so the west ,russia and china are goin to take it off the little irresponsible muslims of the region so that the fat cats make more money and I can sit in my little semi write shit to you lot,go to work in my car,have a meal out now and then,and generally lead for now a nice little life.
If this seems selfish then I am trying to honest.Those that go to oil protests are kidding themselves,watch them shout out when opec start callin the shots.Those that protest at the war are fooling themselves,watch them shout out when some nutter like the president of Iran has biult his bomb or Hamas is trying to wipe out Isreal.to all our detriment.
When it comes to the crunch life is about self-interest.Ask Bin laden.The yanks give him weapons to fight the russians then the saudi's wouldnt let him lead his own lille saudi army agaanst them,so what does he do? Call for the destruction of the house of saud which made his family very rich and the destruction of america who supports them and helped him get rid of the russians.Thats thanks for you!
Better the our lot in charge of the oil,better our lot making lives better in the long run,if muslims want to continue having a shit life then just keep being ruled by the arseholes that keep stepping all over you ie your own un-elected governments.AT LEAST WHEN OURS STEP OUT OF LINE WE CAN VOTE THEM OUT.!  



10 Feb 2006 @ 18:25 by Captain Bloodloss @85.106.130.214 : The bombs
How come everybody is deeply concerned about the Iran bomb when there are so many of them in the hands of other countries.
You should also be concerned about disarmement of other already bomb holders instead of worrying about a possibly bomb holder.
Iranian man is crazy there is no doubt about that but what about the IDIOT?
USA is the only country in the history to ever use nuclear bombs.

It's good to be against Irans nuclear dreams but you gotta be fair, who holds the bigger guns?  



10 Feb 2006 @ 18:40 by Anonymous @68.187.138.33 : Cucumber
1. My bad. I was trying to counter Goebbels' law on "repeating a lie enough times to make it true in the public perception".

2. Good one, French Dude.  



10 Feb 2006 @ 18:45 by A Dane @86.52.105.106 : to Captain Bloodloss
US do, we all know that, would you prefer it was the other way around, I know I wouldn’t….

Have a nice day.  



10 Feb 2006 @ 19:56 by Ron @12.109.118.254 : How can you call someone making fun.....
of Islam racist. Islam is religion, not a race. There are white muslims, black muslims, oriental muslims. There's no need to play the race card.  


10 Feb 2006 @ 20:07 by Al @62.252.128.16 : captain bloodloss
dont be so niave captain.while it is worrying that pakistan,india and north korea have the bomb the fact that some religeous zealot might hold the key to it is far more disturbing,and dont say Bush is one cos Bush doesnt condone or fund suicide bombers.Americaa is the only country to use but so what! It was for a different time and place and it should be recognised that it is a credit to preceeding US governments that they have held back from using it again,because they are sane and rational people,and all you anti-american fuckers should remember that the free air you breathe is down to the yanks.Yes some of them are of there heads but if it wasnt for america you wouldnt be able to talk half the shite that is on this site.

Im fuckin sick of you die hard lefty liberals with your apologies of the past and your excuses for the communist and terrorist regimes as if it was all americas fault.Someones got to stand up to these murdering absolututist arseholes and the likes of you are not the ones to do it,so leave it to those that have a grasp of reality and go back to skulking in your dreamlands.  



10 Feb 2006 @ 21:09 by Chico @151.121.153.20 : Everyone is blind to the irony
Many of the same people who are upset at this reaction by Muslims around the world are the same ones who would cry "boycott" or "protest" to an art show or movie dipicting a derogatory image of Christ, Princess Diana, Ghandi, or Mother Teresa. We hold these figures up beacons of hope and purity. Anyone who smears these figures risk hatred and outrage from the public. Boycotting and protesting is not as violent but it is the strongest expression of disdain many citizens use to indicate a piece of work was done in "poor taste." Subjectivity is sometimes the only thing that seperates heretics from artists with poor tastes. We should learn from this experience. Before we call these people barbaric and ignorant, we should take a long look in the mirror and reflect on how similar they are to our own societies. We don't have to like it, but we also shouldn't stigmatize the entire group for it.  


10 Feb 2006 @ 21:43 by mishka @168.209.98.35 : no white muslims
there are no white muslims! well unless he or she left a satanic cult and join another.  


11 Feb 2006 @ 00:25 by Cyrus @63.240.228.37 : Religion: the OPIUM of the people
The most interesting thing is how everyone likes saying that Prophet X or Y said this or that, sort of the same way some Chinese say,"According to our venerated leader Mao,....." or "As Mao would say...", when everyone know that Mao was responsible for the death of a billion of his countrymen during the so-called Cultural Revolution. Same goes with Hitler; had the Germans won the war, we would be venerating him as a messiah, much like the Germans were in the 30's. In any case, it's sad to see that people actually follow and obey what another human being said 1,000-2,000 years ago and that they justify their lives and habits based on what that somebody else said. Visibly, mankind evolves slowly. As science says, one of the greatest things in life is certainly to learn, but foremost to question everything. Imagine if, just like most religous people never question their faith (which are more than questionable), nobody questioned the central tenet of Medival Catholic Europe, that the earth was flat!!! One can only wonder why people are so devout to a myriad of fairy tales, but that they rarely give a damn for the well being of their neighbors or even for the needy of this world!?

 



11 Feb 2006 @ 01:11 by Wtfdude chill out @64.114.107.128 : Wtfdude chill out
The only reson Bush invaded Afganistan and Iraq Is because 9-11, Get real Of course its about the money too lol all world leaders and all with great power are greedy fucks, But the only reson we invaded is because we were fed up, You fucked 9-11 And we took over 2 Countries, but look on the bright side were fixing the countries up :) , when trouble calls we Americans come and help, look at the Earthquakes that messed Pakistan and India, Who came to aid them? the Americans and the allies, we go and help other countries out, and of course soldiers are Abusive do you think theyre there to give every one Flowers??? get fucking real this is the real world wake up and smell the garbage. If you hadent fucked with us none of this shit wouldent happen, If you didnt fly those planes into the Towers Bush wouldent have a reson to Invade, Next is Iran no doubt, Iran has Broken the peace and hes proven to be insane, Theyre asking for it. Get the fuck out of Americas way and you wont be touched, God bless all of you ( even you terrorist Heithens ) (Whatever you belive in) ...  


11 Feb 2006 @ 01:20 by Captain Bloodloss @85.106.130.214 : Al
I am saying that not only Iran should not have nukes but also all the other countries especially USA should be disarmed of nuclear weapons.
If that seems so crazy and anti american to you that's that.

And why is it always it was a different time and a different place when it comes to your country( that's not just you Al but everybody) but when it comes to muslims they are crazy terrorist bastards?

What happened to giving the credit when the credit is due?
What Americe is doing to the non-american is somewhat terrrorism but they just pretend like it's ok relaaax dude (just like saddam in Southpark)
That does not clear, justify or legalize anything.

Afghanistan and Iraq has nothing to do with the so called "war on terrorism"
ıt's about opium and oil and new bases for the U.S army. that's it.  



11 Feb 2006 @ 01:27 by Captain Bloodloss @85.106.130.214 : about the air
if the yanks are so sensitive about the air I breath then USA should sign the Kyoto treaty.  


11 Feb 2006 @ 01:31 by Cyrus @63.240.228.37 : Reponse to Wtfdude chill out
Very true. Actually the current American foreign policy is concentrated on one argument: AMERICAN ECONOMIC INTERESTS. The invasion of Iraq occurred, so that the United States could ensure future oil availability and slow down the economic development of the so-called BRIC nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China), who at the current rate will surpass the American Economy in ten to twenty years. Their hunger for oil to ensure their economic growth is their only weakness, that the US is currently trying to exploit in order to guarantee American Economic Superiority. However, with things turning sour in Iraq, it seems that those plans weren't so great to begin with. I guess the real victors in Iraq are Halliburton and Iran. As they say: It isn't a game of checkers, but a game of chess. Also, I wish the US would stick to their motto of spreading democracy and freedom around the world, though I haven't seen anyone (The West and rest of the world)crying foul when the massacres in Rwanda occurred or anybody giving a rat's ass about Sudan. I guess those poor people don't have anything to offer for their "liberation", unlike the Iraqis with all the yummy oil. (Sarcasm). Like I said, it's all about the Economic Interests.  


11 Feb 2006 @ 01:43 by vibrani : Haven't seen anyone?
Well, that's not true, even movies have been made about it, but you can only do so much. Should the U.S. solve everybody's problems for them? We're in debt up to our necks because of wars and helping other countries, diasasters, and some of it is just very poor waste and bad management. Since Muslims are murdering millions in Africa, can Muslim countries be asked to send aid? Then there is AIDS. Who should solve these problems? Only America? There's the U.N. Europe on its own doesn't seem to want to spread democracy and freedom around the world. How much aid are they giving to Africa - anyone know? How about the richest little country - the Vatican? How much money are they sending to help? Or are they just encouraging those people not to have birth control and pray?  


11 Feb 2006 @ 01:58 by Cyrus @63.240.228.37 : Liberty, deomcracy, freedom=excuses
Actually, America shouldn't have to help anyone. The problem is that American foreign policy is almost exclusively linked to American Economic Interests, even when these interests run contrary to the very interests the United States claims to be promoting (freedom, democracy, blah, blah, blah). I think we should only recognize this instead of coming up with the typical lame-ass response for invading Iraq:" Uh..Uh...To promote democracy to a people who have never experienced it..." Might as well just say that we are helping monkeys walk, since for the past 3,000 years they have been hanging from trees (sarcasm).  


11 Feb 2006 @ 02:18 by Cyrus @63.240.228.37 : Response to Al @62.252.128.16
Actually, the region had a plethora of religions and beliefs way before Mohammed. The Persians were Zoroastrians at the time and had been for hundreds of years. In any case, religion was created for two purposes:

1. To teach the uneducated fools of the day about social behavior and scientific knowledge: for example: Muslims were told not to eat pork, because pork was/is dirty. Actually, it was because uncooked pork could contain a worm, that at the time could kill (and make you pretty ill nowadays). Evidently, a farmer couldn't understand this, so it was necessary to explain it to him in layman's terms. I can forgive the farmer for telling me that he doesn't eat pork, because his religion says it's dirty, but that educated people say that, is beyond me.

2. To control the mass: religion is the single greatest invention when it comes to controlling people. One only needs to instill fear of God. Once you succeed in doing that, you can make your followers do anything:"Kiss my ass or God will punish you!"

Evidently, the greater the lie, the more people will believe it.  



11 Feb 2006 @ 03:27 by Rick @216.175.93.127 : Religion created?
Really? A bunch of control freaks got together eons ago and deduced a really cool way to stay well fed and reproduce was to invent something we now call religion? Hmmm. They must have been incredibly savy and inuitive.  


11 Feb 2006 @ 05:01 by Wtfdude chill out @64.114.107.128 : Wtfdude chill out
EXACTLY WHAT IM SAYING! THEY MADE A REASON FOR BUSH TO INVADE COUNTRIES, WE GOT ATTACKED, WE GOT ATTACKED BAD, AND DONT THINK IRAQ IS 100% INNOCENT IVE SEEN MANY VIDEOS WITH ASS HOLE MUSLIM TERRORISTS SHOOTING INNOCENT PEOPLE AND CHANTING "ALLAH ACKBAR" , SADDAM WAS AN EVIL DICTATOR WHO KILLED WHO EVER SPOKE BAD OF HIM, YOU BLAME AMERICA FOR IT, WHY DONT YOU BLAME THOSE FUCKTARDS SNIPING BARBERS FOR CUTTING PEOPLES LONG BEARDS BECAUSE ITS "AGAINST ISLAM" FUCK THAT, THESE PEOPLE HAVE ISOLATED MINDS, IF ANYTHING IM HAPPIER WITH THESE IDIOTS GONE FROM EARTH. JUST WAIT JUST WAIT TILL THEY STRIKE YOUR BELOVED COUNTRY, WHAT WILL YOU DO? SIT DOWN AND TAKE IT UP THE ASS? IS THAT WHAT YOU EXPECTED US TO DO? NO!!! YOU HAVE TO TAKE ACTION!! I DONT LIKE BUSH BUT IM GLAD HES TAKING ACTION TO FUCK SOME SHIT UP FOR WHAT THEY DID TO OUR PEOPLE!! IRAQ IS NOT 100% INNOCENT, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE FIGHTING ARE JUST AS BAD. DO MORE REASEARCH!! YOUR ONLY LOOKING AT ONE SIDE OF THE PROBLEM, WHY DONT YOU GO FUCKING VISIT AND SEE WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT, YOU DONT KNOW THE WHOLE STORY BUT YOU THINK YOU DO.

GO LOOK AT THESE LINKS UNDER ME, YOU WILL SEE A 'LITTLE' BIT OF WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT. JUST GO LOOK AT THE LINKS OPEN YOUR EYES YOU BLIND PEOPLE



[link]

http://www.masada2000.org/shosei-koda-beheading-video.wmv

[link]

http://www.foehammer.net/2005/06/thoughts.html

[link]  



11 Feb 2006 @ 05:15 by vibrani : Think we'll soon see
several Muslim Arab women competing in the Olympics? (I wouldn't hold my breath.)  


11 Feb 2006 @ 07:37 by Wtfdude chill out @64.114.107.128 : Wtfdude chill out
Im sorry i kinda flipped out there... forgive me... I guess im just pissed off at all the bad things that are happing.... once again i say There are good muslims out there too :) , My Speeches go out to the terrorists only ;) i have many good muslim friends.  


11 Feb 2006 @ 08:18 by vibrani : Olympics
sure made a loud statement about world peace tonight. I hope some day you'll join us, and the world will live as one....gee I wonder who that was directed to? John Lennon's "Imagine" was perfect timing. Did you notice the cauldron was a havdalah candle? I didn't see any Arab/Muslim women athletes there. One woman from Algeria, but I don't know who she is. Stunning opening ceremonies - Parvarotti still rocks.  


11 Feb 2006 @ 10:16 by Al @62.252.128.16 : capt blood
Capt I said it was for oil and money and so on and that for those reasons I still agree with the 'the wars'.If you cannot understand that your way of life depends heavily on both things then your misgiuded.How many showers you have a week,how much food do you eat,how warm is your house,how much petrol do you use,how much TV do you watch,how long are you on your computer,how many presents do your kids get at christmas....the list goes on and it has all been linked to american dominace in the world.
Do you want your world to go backwards I doubt it!Lets move forward and drag the rest of the backward world with us.

Also imagine a land where you cant fly kites ,you cant listen to music,your daughters cant be educated,you cant practice your faith,you cant drink alcohol,people are shot for having affairs,you have to have a beard,your woman cannot get proper medical attention becuase a man cant lay his eyes on the woman,certain people have to wear a yellow star to show that they are different,and a place where they harbour terrorists.The list goes on.

If anyone hand on heart can justify no military action against such a regime then you have no real love for the world and are only interested in in your life.

If this regime were a white regime then I bet all you lefties would soon be calling for it's head,but as soon as it is a place of people with darker skin you say let them get on with it cos you dont want to be branded racist.
Fuck! Most of my freinds are 'lefty' and they dont know how to speak to dark skinned or muslim people,they all clam up and look as if they dont know how to talk to them.
They are people like you and me and if they are wrong they should be told so.Like you or me!  



11 Feb 2006 @ 10:20 by Wtfdude chill out @64.114.107.128 : Wtfdude chill out
AHMEN BROTHER!!! well said AL  


11 Feb 2006 @ 14:45 by mishka @168.209.98.35 : WAKE UP
we are all going to be sorry for being to soft with the muslims. they are out to kill us. and all we do is debating. they want to kill the all people of denemark for a cartoon. they blame the all nation of denemark, and we the west must not blame the all of islam for all their murderous crimes.when are we going to see the truth for what it is?  


11 Feb 2006 @ 20:23 by Cyrus @63.240.228.37 : To Al
Your comment reminds me of the time my mother fell in the street in Teheran,Iran. All the men that gathered around her felt so sorry for her and were extremely kind. Problem was, even though they really wanted to, they couldn't touch her in order to help her back on her feet. That is really lame: not helping a lady in need out of fear of reprisal. Obviously this is an example of how people are brainwashed by religion. In my opinion religion as a whole is poison; a plague that should be annihilated to give way to reason and logic. At the same time, peo